After September 23rd.........what now?

[brianj]

There is a astroid TC4 to come within 4200 mile of the Earth on Oct 12. Don't know if it will mean anything, but it could be a casting away of sorts.

That's tomorrow, and this is the first I've heard of it. Any updates?

Here's an update: it's not true. The most recent estimate I saw was a close approach 26,000 miles away. A year or so ago a computer model predicted an closest approach possibility of 4,200 miles, but that was the very edge of the probability region and not a prediction of exactly where the rock would pass. Of course, as soon as that prediction was published fear mongers and conspiracy theorists started pretending that was the greatest possible distance for an asteroid that was almost certain to strike.

[Hivetyrant36]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

[Alaris]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Whew thanks Hivetyrant. I almost believed 9/23 was a marker that the judgements against the gentiles were ramping up while God prepared to gather Israel ... and ... wait.... famine? destruction? Judgements on the USA? Aren't these all the same things?

[Hivetyrant36]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Whew thanks Hivetyrant. I almost believed 9/23 was a marker that the judgements against the gentiles were ramping up while God prepared to gather Israel ... and ... wait.... famine? destruction? Judgements on the USA? Aren't these all the same things?

See I knew you would be hard in your heart. So easy to read.

[Alaris]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Whew thanks Hivetyrant. I almost believed 9/23 was a marker that the judgements against the gentiles were ramping up while God prepared to gather Israel ... and ... wait.... famine? destruction? Judgements on the USA? Aren't these all the same things?

See I knew you would be hard in your heart. So easy to read.

Sure hivetyrant36. I considered 9/23 with an hard heart and a closed mind as I studied and prayed about it. After I received several witnesses, I decided to come here and stand up for what I believe with hardness of heart.

[solonan]

[Silver Pie]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.

[gardener4life]

Well spaced out was quoting 2 Nephi Chapter 1 directly. Can you really argue with the scriptures? Go ahead and take a look at 2 Nephi Chapter 1, the first half of that chapter.

it became a choice land above all other lands

So, firstly it evidently wasn't all that chosen from the beginning. It became a choice land.

And for who? A choice land above all other lands for all people? Doubt that. Choice land for the Nephites, yes. Choice land for the Japanese? Not likely. I recall Moses went to the "promised land". Was that in the US?

Yes, it is a very American thing to think that America is more special than the rest, but come back to reality for a moment. There are other lands just as special.

Straying off topic I know, and pointless to debate the issue here, but I responded initially because of the idea I read here that somehow people "dissing" the great American national anthem was seen to be cause for the end of the world. Funny that it is only from Americans that I have heard this idea that America (land, anthem, or anything at all related) is 'sacred'.

Let me clarify a few things. I think I can help on this. I don't want people to become consufed. Or was it confused. Yes, I think we write it desufnoc, not confused. But it's so hard to spell that word. Right so where was I?

Do we think we are more special than God's other children? No. We're not. We're only given a bit more so we can share that with them. It's not given to us so we can be arrogant. But we're not going to be arrogant, we're going to have a broken heart and contrite spirit. We're going to love all God's children. In many ways the blessings for the future Lamanites are really something...we can hope for them to come back and pray for the Native Americans to be restored their blessings of the house of Israel more too...that's something that is SUPPOSED to happen. It's happening in Mexico and southward but I don't know if its happening to the ones in the U.S. I hope it is. Those people need to be included as chosen of God, when they are ready to come back.

So to the heart of the matter...

There is something to say about 'stakes of Zion', 'holy places', and places designated for the gathering of Israel. All of these three terms have unique meanings. They do sort of fit together but there are differences between them. A stake of Zion is a place for 'current' gathering of the saints to strengthen and uplift one another. That part about bear one another's burdens? Yeah that means the people in a stake do that for each other. Did you know that? You had heard that before but you probably didn't hear it applies to the burdens of people in your stake and family members that are righteous, believing, repentant.

OK, so what about holy places? Holy Places are sacred places. They can be homes, temples, MTCs are also in this category I think too. You can argue that America is a promised land too because there are more temples in this country than other countries. But we could very easily see the day when Mexico & Central America, AND Brazil in the future have more temples than us.

Israel is a place for the gathering of Israel, so is the place of New Jerusalem in Missouri and also Adam-ondi-Ahman. Those are also some key gathering points.

Now before we get any ideas further we need to remember one more thing. Who holds the key to turn to activate the gathering of Israel to go to the next phase? The prophet does. And he's allowed to hold that key for the Lord, on his behalf. It won't be time to go to Missouri or any other place until the prophet turns and activates that key under the inspiration of the Lord. We're also told to build up stakes of Zion in our areas currently and that this is holding true for now. The distinction of it not being time to go to those places until its right is very important.

AND, and, and...I'll tell you one more thing that just hit me just now. As I was thinking and pondering about this...how people keep wanting to back early or move around sometimes its very similar to how the Nephites wanted to go reclaim the land of Nephi from the Lamanites under Zeniff's rule (and later Noah, and Limhi). It wasn't profitable for them. Why? It wasn't the time. They were going for primarily economic prosperity more than to build the kingdom and this is why they had some trials and tribulations. )We need to be totally committed and obedient for the Lord to activate that key to go back. And these earlier stories show us that.)Each rule they faced invasions, and tough times by Lamanites. Then also there's a comparison when Moronihah lead the Nephite armies and were trying to gain back lands they lost. And what happened? They couldn't get them back from the Lamanites until they'd repented before God and humbled themselves.

This is also a personal thought but I think true: I also think it won't be time to go back until after we are willing to help the Native Americans reclaim their blessings as chosen children of God. I don't think we do that as well as we could now. They are supposed to be some of the great builders of that temple that will be built in New Jerusalem some day. So how can it be time to go if we haven't built them up and helped them get back their future that's waiting for them.

OK what does that mean? It means unless you've got some revelation from the Lord that it's OK trying to beat the system to go into those places probably is NOT going to be profitable and what you should do. There's timing involved, and putting your family first. (And you aren't going to get a revelation that conflicts with modern prophet revelation. The Lord wouldn't confuse people like that.) The Lord isn't going to reward us for wanting to but in line either. He rewards followers not exploiters.

Also I am reminded of a phrase you've heard often in modern revelation; before his coming many trials and tribulations will occur. What does that mean? Another way of thinking is before his coming many signs of the times will come to pass, many things will be put in order, many good and happy things will happen and the righteous can live worthy of his protection, but trials and tribulations will also occur, (signs, plagues, and desolations according to the D&C) some of us won't be unscathed, and we may have to live differently than we do now, less worldly. We are reminded that not all of the signs of come to pass. One of those signs in the winding up phases...well...lets just say I hope the missionaries can stay out in the field as long as possible before they come home.

[Spaced_Out]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.

Yes and many others have written that things fall apart then there is an extremely bad winter where people are forced to be house bound and after the winter emerge and starvation sets in, bu the starvation actual started prior to that due to drought, storms, calamities, fires etc... Many things are coming together and pointing towards potential disaster, just around the corner.

Every year I look at the long-term winter weather forecast for the US. Last I looked was below average on the east but warmer to the south west. That was a long time back thing could of changed. Updated forcast https://www.weather.gov/phi/longrange
Not too much going on there, but things can change rapidly.

[Alaris]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.

Yes and many others have written that things fall apart then there is an extremely bad winter where people are forced to be house bound and after the winter emerge and starvation sets in, bu the starvation actual started prior to that due to drought, storms, calamities, fires etc... Many things are coming together and pointing towards potential disaster, just around the corner.

Every year I look at the long-term winter weather forecast for the US. Last I looked was below average on the east but warmer to the south west. That was a long time back thing could of changed. Updated forcast https://www.weather.gov/phi/longrange
Not too much going on there, but things can change rapidly.

Snow hit the Sierra's early this year:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... of-summer/

That news article is from 9/21. Might could be an indicator of a harsh winter, could be another sign to go along with 9/23 of the many accompanying events, or it could be nothing.

Also this:

Also, another CME during a solar minimum. This time while Jupiter and Mercury were 1o apart. 9/23 scoffers hate this fact, but not only have I and others stated that nothing overt may happen on 9/23 but that the sign doesn't end on 9/23. The movements of Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus, and the Sun are all very interesting in the weeks that follow 9/23. I've spoken about how each eclipse / pass Jupiter in turn as Jupiter heads to the scales of justice (Libra.) A massive CME that occurs just as Mercury passes Jupiter ... during a solar minimum....this is not yet another another another coincidence.

TWO PLANETS AND A SOLAR STORM: Yesterday, Oct. 18th, something behind the eastern edge of the sun exploded. A massive cloud of plasma (CME) raced away from the blast site -- right into a bright conjunction. Jupiter and Mercury were less than 1o apart when the CME passed by:

Credit: The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO)

If this meeting of planets happened in the night sky, it would have been widely observed. Because it was so close to the glaring sun, no human could see it. Only the orbiting Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, with its sun-blocking coronagraph, could record such a scene.

The CME missed everything. It sailed wide of Mercury, Jupiter, and Earth as well. Forecasters expect no geomagnetic storms as a result of the blast.

http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php ... &year=2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... N3kR5xkMnw

At 44 seconds you can see Jupiter and Mercury to the left and they pass just as the CME erupts. Amazing.

More explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uBdLSJhE54

[Z2100]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.

Yes and many others have written that things fall apart then there is an extremely bad winter where people are forced to be house bound and after the winter emerge and starvation sets in, bu the starvation actual started prior to that due to drought, storms, calamities, fires etc... Many things are coming together and pointing towards potential disaster, just around the corner.

Every year I look at the long-term winter weather forecast for the US. Last I looked was below average on the east but warmer to the south west. That was a long time back thing could of changed. Updated forcast https://www.weather.gov/phi/longrange
Not too much going on there, but things can change rapidly.

Snow hit the Sierra's early this year:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... of-summer/

That news article is from 9/21. Might could be an indicator of a harsh winter, could be another sign to go along with 9/23 of the many accompanying events, or it could be nothing.

Also this:

Also, another CME during a solar minimum. This time while Jupiter and Mercury were 1o apart. 9/23 scoffers hate this fact, but not only have I and others stated that nothing overt may happen on 9/23 but that the sign doesn't end on 9/23. The movements of Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus, and the Sun are all very interesting in the weeks that follow 9/23. I've spoken about how each eclipse / pass Jupiter in turn as Jupiter heads to the scales of justice (Libra.) A massive CME that occurs just as Mercury passes Jupiter ... during a solar minimum....this is not yet another another another coincidence.

TWO PLANETS AND A SOLAR STORM: Yesterday, Oct. 18th, something behind the eastern edge of the sun exploded. A massive cloud of plasma (CME) raced away from the blast site -- right into a bright conjunction. Jupiter and Mercury were less than 1o apart when the CME passed by:

Credit: The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO)

If this meeting of planets happened in the night sky, it would have been widely observed. Because it was so close to the glaring sun, no human could see it. Only the orbiting Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, with its sun-blocking coronagraph, could record such a scene.

The CME missed everything. It sailed wide of Mercury, Jupiter, and Earth as well. Forecasters expect no geomagnetic storms as a result of the blast.

http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php ... &year=2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... N3kR5xkMnw

At 44 seconds you can see Jupiter and Mercury to the left and they pass just as the CME erupts. Amazing.

More explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uBdLSJhE54

Isn't it amazing how this is all drawn-out?

[Alaris]

cme_c3__anim_lite.gif (1.75 MiB) Viewed 1976 times

Jupiter and Mercury are on the left side. They align just as the second burst shoots out.

Imagine a trump blaring along with the solar flare as the two planets align.

[Hivetyrant36]

The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.

Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.

Winter seems to be a theme. Words from Joseph Smith Matthew;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;

18 For then, in those days, shall be great tribulation on the Jews, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.

[Silver]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

[dafty]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

[Silver]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

[inho]

Who saw and was able to interpret the star of Betlehem? Based on Bible, we are only aware of the wise men. Based on Book of Mormon, the people there saw a new star too.
What was the purpose of the sign for those people who saw it and understood it? For the wise men it was a sign to leave and greet the Savior. In BoM the night without darkness along with the star played an important role. The sign saved the believers from the pre-ordered slaughter.
The point is that the sign had a specific purpose for all those that we know to have understood it. It wasn't just an advertisement of coming things without any further meaning.

If there has been a sign about the coming of the Davidic Servant, what was the purpose of it? What were those who were able to interpret it suppose to do?

[Alaris]

Who saw and was able to interpret the star of Betlehem? Based on Bible, we are only aware of the wise men. Based on Book of Mormon, the people there saw a new star too.
What was the purpose of the sign for those people who saw it and understood it? For the wise men it was a sign to leave and greet the Savior. In BoM the night without darkness along with the star played an important role. The sign saved the believers from the pre-ordered slaughter.
The point is that the sign had a specific purpose for all those that we know to have understood it. It wasn't just an advertisement of coming things without any further meaning.

If there has been a sign about the coming of the Davidic Servant, what was the purpose of it? What were those who were able to interpret it suppose to do?

Interesting post, inho. I have wondered about the backstory of the wise men and what happened to those who believed and even witnessed the majesty of Baby Jesus. Did they follow Him or watch Him throughout His life? Certainly the Star of Bethlehem had significance on both sides of the veil. There were righteous servants who were ready receive when the Savior began His ministry--how many were made ready to support Him either directly or indirectly by the sign of His birth.

Likewise there are more than a few who believe 9/23 was the sign of the Davidic Servant. The Davidic Servant is also referred to as being hidden in the prophesies, so wouldn't the sign of his advent / spiritual birth be perhaps ...hidden to most? Isaiah 28 gives some clue as to the state of Ephraim when he comes, so one can assume there that much of Ephraim will not be ready. The Lord basically says that Ephraim is latched onto milk and has not learned line upon line as it should have -

Isaiah 28:9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/28?lang=eng

I hate to say it but Isaiah 28 is at least in part being fulfilled right here on LDSFF. The naysayers, the scoffers, and the antagonizers all seek to fill their own cups by stepping on others having listed to the spirit of the adversary--some are even addicted to this process: faultfinding, mocking, antagonizing - all of those itches can only be scratched at the expense of others. The drunken crown of pride of Ephraim. Can one declare something "not a sign from God" without wearing that crown?

"We have enough" they say as they try to cram every prophesy into the things they feel they already know - rather than seeking the Lord's mysteries they seek to shut down those who try to seek and share with others. Those who are overcome with pride, latched on to milk may hate my even saying it and feel compelled to argue this very point and with great irony underscored. That is why those who chose captivity according to the captivity of the devil are no longer the only one behind the wheel. And the guilty take the truth to be hard for it cutteth them to the very center.

[dafty]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

[GrandMasterB]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!

[dafty]

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!

He has hardly been hidden in the shadow of The Lords hand...nor has he laboured in vain ...the source is Isaiah and BoM

[Alaris]

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!

Isaiah 41-53 is a great place to start. www.isaiahexplained.com is another great resource by Avraham Gileadi where he has commentary analysis and an alternate translation. I'm getting deja vu GrandmasterB - didn't I already send some study suggestions your way?

D&C 85:7
D&C 113:3-4
Ezekiel 37,44
Jeremiah references to "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS"
Isaiah 11
Isaiah 9
Isaiah 28
Isaiah references in 2 Nephi and by the Lord in 3 Nephi - The marred servant, the hidden servant
Malachi 3
Moroni quoting some of the above in JSH
Moses 7:61-63
Revelation 3,7,11,12,14
Daniel 9
The Book of Enoch (ethiopian) chapters 39-70 (Elect One references)
The Apocalypse of Abraham (reference to the Elect One, though I strongly feel the angel Jahoel (also spelled Jaoel, Yahoel, Yaoel, etc.) who tarries with David is the Davidic Servant. Isaiah 51:9 refers to Rahab which can also mean Leviathan, and Jahoel cites the Leviathan as his dominion. Isaiah 51:10 references the Davidic Servant as the one who helped Moses deliver Israel from the other side of the veil, and Jahoel tells Abraham he is basically assigned to Abraham to oversee his posterity - all of this adds up with Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 9 where the Davidic Servant becomes a prince forever over Israel (joining the 7 other princes or dispensation heads.) Anyway, I didn't meant to get that deep!

That's just off the top of my head. There's a lot more ... in Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Hosea, Jeremiah. Messiah Ben Yosef and Messiah Ben David is the Jewish belief in two Messiahs - one spiritual and one physical / temporal. The Davidic Servant is Messiah Ben David, though that's pretty obvious!

[dafty]

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!

Also: Psalms 110:2 where ROD is sent out of Zion..so its defo LDS

[Z2100]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

I was just thinking about the Davidic Servant. If he was born into this world on September 23rd, then he would be alive at this very moment. Isn't that cool.

[dafty]

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

I was just thinking about the Davidic Servant. If he was born into this world on September 23rd, then he would be alive at this very moment. Isn't that cool.

have u read: https://intheshadowofhishand.wordpress.com ? Very interesting take on the "servants". Also, I used to consider the 23rd to symbolise the actual/physical birth of the servant but then I came accross a convincing counter argument(which I have managed to forget about since lol).The only thing I can think of at the moment, is that 'awake and arise' happens after 'labouring in vain' all his life and obviously a child born recently would not have that experience. Have a read through the blog and let me know ur thoughts x