BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

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EmmaLee
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by EmmaLee »

This whole thing just makes me shake my head. And don't even get me started on the 'no facial hair' nonsense.

Dining Services Q & A on caffeinated soft drinks announcement
BYU News Sep 21

With BYU Dining Services’ decision to offer caffeinated soft drinks on BYU’s campus, Dean Wright, director of Dining Services, answered some questions about this change:

Q: When did Dining Services make the decision not to sell caffeinated soft drinks?

A: In the mid 1950s, the director of BYU Food Services decided not to sell caffeinated soft drinks. This decision has continued on since that time. Until more recently, Dining Services rarely received requests for caffeinated soda. Consumer preferences have clearly changed and requests have become much more frequent.

Q: Has the university been supportive of this decision?

A: Yes, the Administrative Vice President has been supportive and has kept the President’s Council informed. . .

Q: Was this decision financially motivated?

A: This decision was not based on financial considerations. We are simply working to meet the preferences of our customers. [Hmmm, if that's truly the case, I can just imagine what BYU might start selling to satisfy the "preferences of our customers"....]


https://news.byu.edu/news/dining-servic ... nouncement

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gkearney
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by gkearney »

OK time for a funny story about all of this. When I was a graduate student at BYU in the early 80s I had a job as the draftsman for the theatre department. Various members of the theatre design faculty had a taste for Caffinated soft drinks. The department also owned an antique but fully functioning soda vending machine. This was stocked with the aforesaid drinks and kept in one of the backstage rooms in the Harris Fine Arts Centre.

Vending Services would send a letter at the start of every semester to the technical director of the the department demanding this machine that sold contraband be turned off it never was. I remember student employees of the department being set out in the departments truck to restock the machine.

Vending Services went crazy trying to find the location of the black market source of Coke on campus. They knew it was in the HFAC someplace but that building was a maze of rooms and they never found it.

Sunain
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Sunain »

EmmaLee wrote: September 23rd, 2017, 12:46 pm Q: Was this decision financially motivated?

A: This decision was not based on financial considerations. We are simply working to meet the preferences of our customers. [Hmmm, if that's truly the case, I can just imagine what BYU might start selling to satisfy the "preferences of our customers"....]


https://news.byu.edu/news/dining-servic ... nouncement
Government run marijuana stores are opening here in Canada in the next few months... That definitely fits the preferences of their customers too... Most universities have bars on campus too.

President Nelson is a heart surgeon and he should know the effects of caffeine, (such as high blood pressure and increased risk of heart attacks), which makes me VERY concerned currently about the apostles judgement in this matter. It seems to be politically, socially and even monetarily influenced. Unfortunately, their judgement is final and stands as the church's decision on the matter. Myself and other though will continue to uphold caffeine as violating the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, so I don't see this 'issue' leaving church culture anytime soon. I know I will continue to tell members I see drinking caffeine infused drinks and soda about their harmful and addictive nature.

This article lists many harmful effects of caffeine with their medical journal study links. The effects that caffeine has on the body is just as bad as any other 'illicit drug'. Just because caffeine is legal and marijuana is becoming legal, doesn't mean its good for our bodies and should be disregarded as not being part of the word of wisdom. Alcohol and nicotine are included in the word of wisdom too and they are also legal.

Juliet
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Juliet »

AI2.0 wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 5:18 pm
Juliet wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 3:07 am They are going to sell caffeinated beverages because they want to make money. Even if it may not be healthy, even if it is a little bit harmful, they are going to sell it because it will make them money.

This decision was made because someone was looking at their profit margins and realizing BYU is losing money to competition by not selling caffeinated beverages.

Of course, they are not responsible for the large amount of people drinking caffein, but nor are the students responsible for drinking caffein if BYU sells it, a school that has every one sign a word of wisdom contract in order to attend, a school that publicly announces its values and expects students to adhere to them. It is deceptively sponsoring caffein by way of having the word of wisdom in the honor code, so thereby it is saying caffein is officially permissible in the word of wisdom. BYU must take responsibility for those who justify their choice to consume caffeine on the belief that if BYU sells it, is must be ok because they wouldn't sell it if it was against the word of wisdom as proven by the honor code.

Sell caffein, but take out the word of wisdom portion of your honor code. You cannot do both. Caffeinated beverages are addictive and they are harmful, and though not stated publicly by the church as against the word of wisdom, it is in the grey area because many people become addicted to these beverages and they are harmful to the body. Again, I am all for letting people make their choices, but if you have a contract sponsoring and valuing physical health and then sale harmful addictive foods to make a profit, you are playing a double game.

They don't need to take the Word of Wisdom out of the honor code, caffeinated soda is not prohibited by the word of wisdom. The church reiterated this just a couple of years ago, I guess some here missed it:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-a ... a34b2.html
SALT LAKE CITY -- Mormons are free to down a Coke or Pepsi.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has clarified its position on caffeinated soft drinks, noting the news media often incorrectly states that its members are forbidden to drink caffeine.

This week the church posted a statement on its website saying it "does not prohibit the use of caffeine."

A day later, the website wording was changed, saying only that "the church revelation spelling out health practices ... does not mention the use of caffeine."

Church spokesman Scott Trotter said the clarification was made to provide context to last week's NBC News hour-long special on Mormonism that stated Mormons don't drink caffeine.

But church leaders say that doesn't mean they view caffeinated drinks as healthy. They just don't bar members from drinking them.
No, I know it's not, technically it is not against the word of wisdom. Because they used to not sell it; it now is an issue, but at the end of the day; everyone must take responsibility for their own health.

EmmaLee
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by EmmaLee »

Thanks, Sunain; I agree. But I also believe the sugar (and equally, or even more so, any/all artificial sweeteners) are just as bad as caffeine, and that people can become every bit as addicted to those as to the actual caffeine. I guess in the end, my main point of starting this thread was to (hopefully) show the idiocy of this whole thing - that it's even a topic of discussion at BYU - because it seems to me it all comes down to members needing (wanting?) to be "commanded in all things". It's a sad state of affairs when that occurs.

You mentioned marijuana and bars on college campuses as meeting the "preferences of our customers" (BYU's excuse/reason for adding caffeine pop) - and yes, I'm sure there is a rather large segment of all the BYU campuses that would "prefer" to have those things readily available - porn, too.

Irrelevant
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Irrelevant »

Sunain wrote: September 23rd, 2017, 2:19 pm President Nelson is a heart surgeon and he should know the effects of caffeine, (such as high blood pressure and increased risk of heart attacks), which makes me VERY concerned currently about the apostles judgement in this matter. Why do you place this burden on them? Should they also address hydrogenated oils, refined sugar, or preservatives? Do they need to spell out everything that's bad for a person? Would it make you happy if President Monson commanded us to stop drinking caffeine? If so, why? It seems to be politically, socially and even monetarily influenced. Unfortunately, their judgement is final and stands as the church's decision on the matter. Their judgement is not final in this matter- yours is. If you feel that God is telling you not to drink caffeine then don't. Having prayed about it myself I can tell you that He doesn't really care if I do.
Myself and other though will continue to uphold caffeine as violating the spirit of the Word of Wisdom, so I don't see this 'issue' leaving church culture anytime soon. I know I will continue to tell members I see drinking caffeine infused drinks and soda about their harmful and addictive nature. Why? Is it because you think they don't know? Are you led by the Spirit to do so?
Why do you choose this as your cross to bear? Why does it bother you so much that others do not follow your personal interpretation of the Word of Wisdom?


This article lists many harmful effects of caffeine with their medical journal study links. The effects that caffeine has on the body is just as bad as any other 'illicit drug'. Just because caffeine is legal and marijuana is becoming legal, doesn't mean its good for our bodies and should be disregarded as not being part of the word of wisdom. Alcohol and nicotine are included in the word of wisdom too and they are also legal.

JohnnyL
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by JohnnyL »

Arenera wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:16 pm The reason is President talked about a nameless diet drink. If he drinks it, its ok.
He's been drinking it for at least 25 years...

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Elizabeth
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Elizabeth »

How do you know? Have you seen him do so with your own eyes?
JohnnyL wrote: September 26th, 2017, 11:27 am
Arenera wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:16 pm The reason is President talked about a nameless diet drink. If he drinks it, its ok.
He's been drinking it for at least 25 years...

Serragon
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Serragon »

Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
The question is "what is the point behind the word of wisdom?".
The Lord tells us in the very revelation being referenced. The point was to keep us out of the clutches of conspiring men.
Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
Now, why is the Word of Wisdom a temple commandment? Could it have something to do with that MORE that it is? The Word of Wisdom reveals that it came about for the temporal salvation of the saints in the last days due to conspiring people. What is so important about it that he tells us it's how we will survive as a people? There is much to learn there.


it is not a temple commandment. It is an interpretation of the law that our current church leaders expect us to follow in order to enter the temple. It has changed over time and will change again in the future.

Why do they do this? Because it is easy to measure. This has morphed from loving instruction to a measuring stick used to deny ordinances. Clearly not what the Lord intended as evidence by his own words. It is even more problematic that the standard being used to deny these ordinances is not the standard put forth by the Lord Himself.

There is much to learn. But there is not much to command, and it should not be used to judge the righteousness of others.
Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
So how does something like caffeine (or soda, or fats and oils even, and exercise!) fit into the temporal salvation of the saints in the last days? I don't know... but it's our job to learn.
I am unfamiliar with temporal salvation. what exactly is that?

It is our job to learn. It is not our job to command others when the Lord himself has stated that it is not to be a commandment. It is not our job to add our own ideas of health onto the Lords words and claim it is a "higher law". It is not our job to deny blessings to people because we are too lazy to do the hard work required to actually determine someones worthiness.

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passionflower
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by passionflower »

There is absolutely no prohibition against coke a cola, etc. in the WOW. Is it dumb to drink it? is it an unnecessary expense? Yes on both counts. And all cola drinks are an aquirred taste for sure (yuck!) I certainly don't want to do it, and find nothing of good report or praiseworthy about consuming it. Most people you talk to about this have been drinking Pepsi, etc for years and years, with the real reason being they are now addicted to it. And I don't know if God died for our stupidity. Some people could have paid off serious debts and/or bought a car with the amount of money they spent on Coke over a quarter of a century or more. Oh yes, let's make Coke available on the BYU campus so we can start the next generation of addicted repeat customers early.

But, nevertheless, Coke it is not against the WOW. Once upon a time, way back in the 20th century heyday of science, Latter Day Saints excitedly spread the word that SCIENCE had discovered the real reason coffee and tea were against the WOW. They both contained caffeine!!!! Never mind that section 89 never once stated this being the reason coffee and tea were forbidden, but talk of conspiring men instead. Now, with the so-called authority of science behind them, church members felt that the WOW was being proved to be true and didn't stop to actually read section 89. Back then, we all believed that one day science would prove everything LDS to be true, and the discovery of caffeine in tea and coffee was just the beginning!

With the ferver of pharasees, church members believed it consistent to start pushing caffeine as the real bad boy and scapegoat in the WOW because SCIENCE said so. I remember a sister who drank decaffienated Sanka because to her, since the caffeine had been removed, it was no longer against the WOW to drink it. The same with green tea.

RAB
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by RAB »

I've shared this before, but I will share it again. I was raised in a home where my mother discouraged drinking caffeine, while my father drank diet pepsi all the time. So, I had mixed examples about this. Some prophets have said we should not drink it, but we have an official position of the Church saying it is not against the WOW. So, how do we reconcile it? I reconcile it by saying that prophets do more than just tell us what the commandments are. They also provide good advice from time to time, that should not be considered a sin if people are not willing or able to heed that advice. Not every piece of advice rises to the level of a commandment.

Several months ago, I felt worried that my life might end prematurely, so I asked God what I might do to extend my life. His response, was inspiring me to limit my meat intake, eat more fruits and vegetables, eat whole grain, limit food that had sugar added, and give up all sodas ( I particularly liked the Diet Cola kind of coke zero). Some of that is found in the word or wisdom, and some of that can best be described as commandments unto myself, as described as one of the blessings in the Doctrine and Covenants. God also inspired me to be more regular about my exercise and to get adequate rest. Now, that is what I was told, and how the Word of Wisdom applied to me. But everybody's body is different. For some, they may need to avoid certain foods, such as gluten if they have celiac disease. But that doesn't mean everyone must avoid gluten. My wife's grandfather is 98 years old and has been downing diet pepsi for the better part of 40 years. For him, avoiding diet caffeinated sodas was not really an issue. So, I think there are some hard and fast rules (alcohol, coffee, tea, tabacco, illegal drugs, prescription drugs taken illegally), and then the rest is up to the individual to figure out together with the Lord, what diet rules are best for their particular health (should they desire to ask that question of Him).

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Lyster
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Lyster »

Blue is mine.
Serragon wrote: September 26th, 2017, 12:34 pm
Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
The question is "what is the point behind the word of wisdom?".
The Lord tells us in the very revelation being referenced. The point was to keep us out of the clutches of conspiring men.

See below, where D&C 90 and Dictionary are quoted. Sounds like another "point" of the revelation to me.
Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
Now, why is the Word of Wisdom a temple commandment? Could it have something to do with that MORE that it is? The Word of Wisdom reveals that it came about for the temporal salvation of the saints in the last days due to conspiring people. What is so important about it that he tells us it's how we will survive as a people? There is much to learn there.


it is not a temple commandment. ...church leaders expect us to follow in order to enter the temple.

This is a blatant switch. The leadership says it is required to enter the temple. Therefore, a temple-based command from them. If your issue is their authority to do so, that is another matter entirely, and not the point of this particular topic.

Why do they do this? Because it is easy to measure. This has morphed from loving instruction to a measuring stick used to deny ordinances. Clearly not what the Lord intended as evidence by his own words. It is even more problematic that the standard being used to deny these ordinances is not the standard put forth by the Lord Himself.

How much are you running into this measuring stick? I've heard it brought up time and time again. If people want to measure, let them deal with their own sins. Those who are always throwing around "measuring stick" accusations should save one for themselves. I don't often run into people that base their judgement of me on how I observe the Sabbath or what I eat or drink, nor do I keep such a tool on my belt. Don't know anyone who does.

If specifically referring to, for example, a Bishop in a recommend interview, all they ask is "do you keep the Word of Wisdom". Not, "Do you drink coffee? Do you drink tea? Do you drink the sodapop? Do you make sure to get plenty of sleep?" The answer to that question is your own judgement of yourself. If you evaluate yourself and HONESTLY say that you are based on the knowledge you have at that time, then you are truthfully keeping it.
But if some new information comes to your mind, and the Spirit directs you there, but you ignore it because "well, verse 2 says it's not a commandment!" then are you still truthfully committed to it?


There is much to learn. But there is not much to command, and it should not be used to judge the righteousness of others.
Lyster wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:15 pm
So how does something like caffeine (or soda, or fats and oils even, and exercise!) fit into the temporal salvation of the saints in the last days? I don't know... but it's our job to learn.
I am unfamiliar with temporal salvation. what exactly is that?
D&C 90 wrote: 2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
The Lord came up with that phrase, not me. A dictionary definition of salvation.
Dictionary wrote: preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin, or loss:
It's not only a religious term. So, what do you think He means by that? Surely, the physical deliverance from harm, or more specifically, death of His people. (and why would this be an issue? You said it! Conspiring men. You think it's just about guys that want to make a buck selling sugar-laden garbage? If so, think again.

It is our job to learn. It is not our job to command others when the Lord himself has stated that it is not to be a commandment. It is not our job to add our own ideas of health onto the Lords words and claim it is a "higher law". It is not our job to deny blessings to people because we are too lazy to do the hard work required to actually determine someones worthiness.

Personally, I view all of the Lord's words commandments. Not all apply to me, or you, or Joe or Jane. Stoning adulterers certainly does not. I haven't stated that we must all live by the WoW as I understand it. But offering my understanding may just help someone who is seeking to understand it better or differently, or at all. The same can be said of people hearing your version.

As for the "hard work required to actually determine someone's worthiness", what exactly would you say that process is?


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Elizabeth
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Elizabeth »

Thankfully, I believe I am perfect in the keeping of the Word of Wisdom and have been so since it was first taught to me by the Missionary Elders.

Gage
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Gage »

I remember when I was a young man we all thought cokes were against the WOW. I can remember being in the watermelon patch as a teenager and it was 110 degrees, we took a break all of us exhausted and dying of thirst. The farmer pulls up and opens the cooler and its filled with coca cola's, dangit! I cant drink those! I went the rest of the day, drinking nothing thought I would die. Well come to find out (several years later) I could of drank that coke. I could of drank 2 or 3, it was ok. LOL.

JohnnyL
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by JohnnyL »

Elizabeth wrote: September 26th, 2017, 11:48 am How do you know? Have you seen him do so with your own eyes?
JohnnyL wrote: September 26th, 2017, 11:27 am
Arenera wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:16 pm The reason is President talked about a nameless diet drink. If he drinks it, its ok.
He's been drinking it for at least 25 years...
Snack machine attendant. Oh, and a candy bar to go with it. ;)

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Elizabeth
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Re: BYU Now Offering Caffeine on Campus

Post by Elizabeth »

Were you the snack bar attendant?
And do you solemnly witness that you saw with your own eyes who, drinking what exactly?
JohnnyL wrote: September 27th, 2017, 2:22 pm
Elizabeth wrote: September 26th, 2017, 11:48 am How do you know? Have you seen him do so with your own eyes?
JohnnyL wrote: September 26th, 2017, 11:27 am
Arenera wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:16 pm The reason is President talked about a nameless diet drink. If he drinks it, its ok.
He's been drinking it for at least 25 years...
Snack machine attendant. Oh, and a candy bar to go with it. ;)

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