September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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Alaris
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Alaris »

Mark wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:52 am
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:20 am
iWriteStuff wrote: September 21st, 2017, 8:47 am
Still Learning wrote: September 21st, 2017, 7:14 am I'm more intrigued that there are people that don't believe in all the signs in the heavens (and earth) over the past few years. I also find it incredible that so many LDS seek out "the learned" (PhD's) to get their supposed 'proof' that these signs are vein imaginations of our hearts. Seems to me that in addition to the signs we are being shown that all the naysayers are fulfilling additional prophecies by denying these signs and then of course trying to correct the mistaken paths of the fools who believe in the signs. Tells me that there are many that either do not read the scriptures or do not understand them.
Serious question: in the last month we've had three major hurricanes, two major earthquakes, two missiles launched over Japan, and the west coast is on fire. And we're still looking for signs? :o
Seven solar flares over seven days during a solar minimum which has baffled the PhDs. There were 4 earthquakes yesterday all over 6.0.

Yet we were all wrong about 8/21 somehow. Those with that position should go to the rubble in Florida and Puerto Rico and Cuba and the Bahamas and Mexico and Japan and remind the inhabitants, "Nothing to see here folks."

Oops I forgot about the wildfires. How many states are on fire?
You have to remember that the earth groans from the wickedness of mankind. It is literally a spiritual entity. Those groans go in ebb and flow cycles. Are they increasing? Perhaps. Yet there have been many natural catastrophic events over the past several hundreds of years when the people must have felt that this was it. I personally am looking for the sign when the missionaries are withdrawn from preaching the gospel to the Gentiles. At that point the Lord will use all sorts of natural means to really preach some sermons to us. Then you can really start with the forecasting. Until then it's just yankee guessing to a large degree.
I could see why many would reach that conclusion. However the 7 solar flares over 7 days during a solar minimum is what I consider an overt sign--especially after studying the seven levels of mankind. The article I wrote in June about this sign was about how I believe this sign is about the Davidic Servant joining the order of archangels - the order of seven ... the seven angels with seven trumpets, seven seals, etc. etc. This occurs at the very end of the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar - 2017 on our calendar. Could this all be a coincidence? Sure, but all these coincidences are building up with what began as a spiritual witness - at least for me. :) I invite anyone who hasn't to pray about it.

Z2100
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Z2100 »

alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 10:46 am
Mark wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:52 am
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:20 am
iWriteStuff wrote: September 21st, 2017, 8:47 am

Serious question: in the last month we've had three major hurricanes, two major earthquakes, two missiles launched over Japan, and the west coast is on fire. And we're still looking for signs? :o
Seven solar flares over seven days during a solar minimum which has baffled the PhDs. There were 4 earthquakes yesterday all over 6.0.

Yet we were all wrong about 8/21 somehow. Those with that position should go to the rubble in Florida and Puerto Rico and Cuba and the Bahamas and Mexico and Japan and remind the inhabitants, "Nothing to see here folks."

Oops I forgot about the wildfires. How many states are on fire?
You have to remember that the earth groans from the wickedness of mankind. It is literally a spiritual entity. Those groans go in ebb and flow cycles. Are they increasing? Perhaps. Yet there have been many natural catastrophic events over the past several hundreds of years when the people must have felt that this was it. I personally am looking for the sign when the missionaries are withdrawn from preaching the gospel to the Gentiles. At that point the Lord will use all sorts of natural means to really preach some sermons to us. Then you can really start with the forecasting. Until then it's just yankee guessing to a large degree.
I could see why many would reach that conclusion. However the 7 solar flares over 7 days during a solar minimum is what I consider an overt sign--especially after studying the seven levels of mankind. The article I wrote in June about this sign was about how I believe this sign is about the Davidic Servant joining the order of archangels - the order of seven ... the seven angels with seven trumpets, seven seals, etc. etc. This occurs at the very end of the year 5777 on the Jewish calendar - 2017 on our calendar. Could this all be a coincidence? Sure, but all these coincidences are building up with what began as a spiritual witness - at least for me. :) I invite anyone who hasn't to pray about it.
The solar flares and the huge influx of earthquakes/natural disasters around the world is a sign that the virgin is going to give birth.

And I mean, we live in the last days, so it’s safe to assume that any prophecy can be fulfilled, whether it has already ben fufilled one time, many times, or no times :)

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FTC
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 12:10 am Your attitude of mocking people places you squarely in the large and spacious building.

On one hand they can climb up to the roof of the large and spacious and point and mock.
Kind of like Elijah? 1 King 18:27 "And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked."

The same Elijah that Joseph Smith claimed "held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood and was the last prophet to do so before the time of Jesus Christ."

The same Elijah that "appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John".

And, then still again, the same Elijah that "appeared again, with Moses and others, on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland Ohio Temple and conferred the same keys upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery".

All while being someone, a prophet even, that mocked the foolish.

I guess Elijah's home address is 123 Great and Spacious Building, Highest Level, Celestial Kingdom 77777.

Who knew that the Great and Spacious building got translated, too!!! Ok, ok! I do admit. That last one was immature mocking. :P

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Alaris
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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FTC wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:03 am
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 12:10 am Your attitude of mocking people places you squarely in the large and spacious building.

On one hand they can climb up to the roof of the large and spacious and point and mock.
Kind of like Elijah? 1 King 18:27 "And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked."

The same Elijah that Joseph Smith claimed "held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood and was the last prophet to do so before the time of Jesus Christ."

The same Elijah that "appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John".

And, then still again, the same Elijah that "appeared again, with Moses and others, on April 3, 1836, in the Kirtland Ohio Temple and conferred the same keys upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery".

All while being someone, a prophet even, that mocked the foolish.

I guess Elijah's home address is 123 Great and Spacious Building, Highest Level, Celestial Kingdom 77777.

Who knew that the Great and Spacious building got translated, too!!! Ok, ok! I do admit. That last one was immature mocking. :P
Great points!

So given we aren't those who have "held the sealing power of the Melchizedek Priesthood and was the last prophet to do so before the time of Jesus Christ" and we haven't "appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses and conferred the keys of the priesthood on Peter, James, and John" and there aren't any Priests of Baal openly defying YHWH, perhaps we should stick to Lehi's dream? That, and the Lord Himself said, "Fools mock." Sure we can all be fools at times, but mocking believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - there are lots of examples of that in the scriptures and it usually doesn't end well for them.

Oh and I'm pretty sure there was only one perfect being ... so there's a chance that though his mockery is highly entertaining, the Lord Himself likely would not have done such in that position and He certainly doesn't appreciate LDS mocking fellow LDS who believe in signs in the heavens that strongly resemble Revelation 12. Have you inquired yet FTC?

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FTC
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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So we're going to cherry pick which prophets we adhere to? Isn't that what we accuse the false churches of doing - picking and choosing just the parts they like to follow?

I already told you I inquired. Do I need to post another 5 hours of Data laughing?

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Alaris
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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FTC wrote: September 21st, 2017, 11:22 am So we're going to cherry pick which prophets we adhere to? Isn't that what we accuse the false churches of doing - picking and choosing just the parts they like to follow?

I already told you I inquired. Do I need to post another 5 hours of Data laughing?
5 hours of Data laughing doesn't seem to jive with the God I pray to. Praying to Baal does not count. ;)

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:40 am
iWriteStuff wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:31 am
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:20 am Oops I forgot about the wildfires. How many states are on fire?
I was up in WA the other day. Grew up there. I've never seen it so dry, dead, and filled with smoke. CA, OR, and WA have all had some very nasty fires this year. These are usually the wettest places you can live in the CONUS. The airport I was in smelled of forest fires and it covered the area pretty extensively. Again, I've never seen it like that before. Crazy times.

I don't know what happens on the 23rd. Maybe something, maybe nothing. I've learned not to hold my breath.
Well good on you for not saying nothing will happen.
I have to admit I'm becoming fascinated. I've never seen anyone who needs so much validation and can't handle a dissenting opinion.

I'm wondering, do you know why you can't be content with someone just disagreeing with you?

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Alaris
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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Seek the Truth wrote: September 21st, 2017, 3:45 pm
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:40 am
iWriteStuff wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:31 am
alaris wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:20 am Oops I forgot about the wildfires. How many states are on fire?
I was up in WA the other day. Grew up there. I've never seen it so dry, dead, and filled with smoke. CA, OR, and WA have all had some very nasty fires this year. These are usually the wettest places you can live in the CONUS. The airport I was in smelled of forest fires and it covered the area pretty extensively. Again, I've never seen it like that before. Crazy times.

I don't know what happens on the 23rd. Maybe something, maybe nothing. I've learned not to hold my breath.
Well good on you for not saying nothing will happen.
I have to admit I'm becoming fascinated. I've never seen anyone who needs so much validation and can't handle a dissenting opinion.

I'm wondering, do you know why you can't be content with someone just disagreeing with you?
When I first posted an article on 9/23 being about the Davidic Servant, as far as I knew I was and would be the only one to see it that way. So why would I needy validation? You don't agree. However you have mocked rather than simply disagree, and I'm clearly taking issue with that not a dissenting opinion. If you read my posts I discuss things frequently with people with whom I disagree and we manage to do so without mocking insults and antagonism.

Here's why I'm addressing you "Seek The Truth." People who are scared and unsettled do walk into the large and spacious to join. They are made to feel ashamed for their beliefs and they let go and join in on the finger pointing. I certainly don't need your validation. I am however interested in the welfare of your soul and those who might be lured.

If I did need validation then the fact that Val Brinkeroff and Avraham Gileadi agree with me on 9/23 being about the Davidic Servant would certainly suffice. Though it's nice it's certainly not needed.

I can't recall if you're one of those who said 8/21 meant nothing. You've seemed to throw your lot in 9/23 meaning nothing. Saying I need validation has no founding whatsoever. In fact increased opposition is validation as I've posted many scriptures that show that those who believe in heavenly signs will be mocked by those who have hardened their hearts and are blind to see. Here's another:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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But your response is so emotional. You seem like you are shaking as you type your words. That's not the sign of a man confident in his beliefs, but the opposite. And multiple times you've referred to "Prophecy Police", attempting to get people who disagree with you to simply stop talking instead of engaging such people with reason and discussing the merits of the subject. And of course the quickness with which you label people trolls who don't seem to have any interest in your emotional response at all.

It's very curious.

On 8/21, that is the 2nd total eclipse I've seen in my life, the 1st being some 35 years ago. What was different about this one. I've seen many heavenly signs in my life, still no 2nd coming. Do you understand what I'm saying?

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Alaris
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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Seek the Truth wrote: September 21st, 2017, 4:26 pm But your response is so emotional. You seem like you are shaking as you type your words. That's not the sign of a man confident in his beliefs, but the opposite. And multiple times you've referred to "Prophecy Police", attempting to get people who disagree with you to simply stop talking instead of engaging such people with reason and discussing the merits of the subject. And of course the quickness with which you label people trolls who don't seem to have any interest in your emotional response at all.

It's very curious.

On 8/21, that is the 2nd total eclipse I've seen in my life, the 1st being some 35 years ago. What was different about this one. I've seen many heavenly signs in my life, still no 2nd coming. Do you understand what I'm saying?
I understand. I'm not trying to get you or anyone to stop talking. I'm trying to get you to stop mocking - A, and I'm trying to get people to engage in something substantive rather than making comments about how I need validation or how I seem like I'm shaking when I'm writing - B.

I will concede that I am more ... passionate ... than usual as of late, but there are reasons behind that. And I can totally understand how that can be misconstrued, so point conceded.

The troll remarks usually have zero substance - "Nothing will happen" followed by mocking. That's not substantive. Read my blog on 9/23 and engage me. Check out my thread on it on LDSFF. Rensai pointed out that I may have misinterpreted "Rod" on my blog in one scripture - and I conceded he may be right.

"Nothing has happened yet" as a basis for not believing signs is exactly the scripture I just quoted above from 2 Peter.

The whole basis that "something is not a sign" is one founded in both disbelief and presumption to know what are and are not signs. Try to now see this from my perspective. I've spent a great deal of time, and study, and thought, and prayer on this particular sign and a personal spiritual witness is what started me on that quest - everything I've found keeps reinforcing that first witness. I watched the "The Sign" last night and posted a few of the cool bits from that show in my 9/23 thread. There is just more and more and more evidence to reinforce ... so when someone mocks without substance .. is it really hard to see why one might find that frustrating?

Saying something isn't a sign that so closely resembles Revelation 12 is what I find curious. ;) I would settle on that ...and ignore it for the most part. Mocking those who believe in the signs ... now is that really hard to understand why I may have a problem with that - especially given how the mocking has intensified in general. Take a look at some 9/23 videos - they are now stock full of mocking and anger! Anger!!?? I always thought it was odd that the wicked were going to kill those who believed in the signs of Christ in 3 Nephi. Why? If they are wrong who cares? There is a principle at play here, and I'm working towards the end of inviting people to stop mocking and start praying.

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

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iWriteStuff wrote: September 21st, 2017, 8:47 am
Still Learning wrote: September 21st, 2017, 7:14 am I'm more intrigued that there are people that don't believe in all the signs in the heavens (and earth) over the past few years. I also find it incredible that so many LDS seek out "the learned" (PhD's) to get their supposed 'proof' that these signs are vein imaginations of our hearts. Seems to me that in addition to the signs we are being shown that all the naysayers are fulfilling additional prophecies by denying these signs and then of course trying to correct the mistaken paths of the fools who believe in the signs. Tells me that there are many that either do not read the scriptures or do not understand them.
Serious question: in the last month we've had three major hurricanes, two major earthquakes, two missiles launched over Japan, and the west coast is on fire. And we're still looking for signs? :o
Amen! That's the thing, I don't think most are looking for signs. If they were they would see them. They just don't believe in them.

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Jesef »

WWII must have seemed like the Last Battle, The Great War, the End. But it wasn't.

I can't wait to see what actually happens. Obviously the heavenly bodies are configuring like they are configuring (all from a Geo/Earth-centric viewpoint, of course). But to see what global events actually follow that are significant, that will be the key. Even kids at school are talking about the "world ending" on Saturday, 9/23 - but I guess this sign is actually getting conflated with some other people claiming that Planet X/Nibiru is going to collide with or brush close to Earth on 9/23 as well. Anyway, Revelations 8 seems to describe burning mountains and stars falling and impacting the Earth and causing all kinds of damage to the ocean and land, trees, rivers - sounds a lot like asteroid impacts. The Planet X/Nibiru folks say that it has asteroids in its trail.

But I can also see where some people are coming from, in terms of skepticism - it's like Chicken Little and "the sky is falling" - how many doomsday criers have come and gone with their false predictions and, no offense, their spiritual experiences confirming it all in advance? So there is the 0/1000 track record thing for doomsday criers as a genre. But, real events and real characters (like Davidic Servant, etc.) will follow real signs. So being prepared, but not extreme, can't hurt. Also, I'm not really sure how important physical survival is in any of these scenarios. We're mortal folks. Death is around the corner for most of us anyway (especially if these events are still like a 100 years off or something) - resurrection may not mean what we think it does. The point is, we're eternal beings and we continue to live/exist. So be good for goodness' sake!
Last edited by Jesef on September 21st, 2017, 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Z2100
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Z2100 »

Jesef wrote: September 21st, 2017, 5:29 pm WWII must have seemed like the Last Battle, The Great War, the End. But it wasn't.

I can't wait to see what actually happens. Obviously the heavenly bodies are configuring like they are configuring (all from a Geo/Earth-centric viewpoint, of course) like they are configuring. But to see what global events actually follow that are significant, that will be the key. Even kids at school are talking about the "world ending" on Saturday, 9/23 - but I guess this sign is actually getting conflated with some other people claiming that Planet X/Nibiru is going to collide with or brush close to Earth on 9/23 as well. Anyway, Revelations 8 seems to describe burning mountains and stars falling and impacting the Earth and causing all kinds of damage to the ocean and land, trees, rivers - sounds a lot like asteroid impacts. The Planet X/Nibiru folks say that it has asteroids in its trail.

But I can also see where some people are coming from, in terms of skepticism - it's like Chicken Little and "the sky is falling" - how many doomsday criers have come and gone with their false predictions and, no offense, their spiritual experiences confirming it all in advance? So there is the 0/1000 track record thing for doomsday criers as a genre. But, real events and real characters (like Davidic Servant, etc.) will follow real signs. So being prepared, but not extreme, can't hurt. Also, I'm not really sure how important physical survival is in any of these scenarios. We're mortal folks. Death is around the corner for most of us anyway (especially if these events are still like a 100 years off or something) - resurrection may not mean what we think it does. The point is, we're eternal beings and we continue to live/exist. So be good for goodness' sake!
I really liked your summary. Basically everyone who isn't mormon believes that planet x will pass earth/the rapture/etc. You'll see countless videos about these things. But if you are a mormon, you will know what it is and what will actually happen (really nothing- but the future events are of utmost importance).

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Mcox »

Oh Lexew1899! I like you!!

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gruden2.0
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by gruden2.0 »

Seek the Truth wrote: September 21st, 2017, 4:26 pm On 8/21, that is the 2nd total eclipse I've seen in my life, the 1st being some 35 years ago. What was different about this one. I've seen many heavenly signs in my life, still no 2nd coming. Do you understand what I'm saying?
This eclipse and the one in 2024 are 7 years apart. Both cross over N America, so this is a sign for us.

In Rev 12 there are 2 heavenly signs. The first will be fulfilled this weekend and will pass without anything outwardly happening out of the norm for the world. So all the naysayers will be able to rejoice. Yay the world didn't end!

However, the second sign, the sign of the dragon, will be followed with significant events. It kicks off 3.5 years (half of the 7 years) of great turmoil.

So, for the LDSFF'ers who have been eagerly awaiting the great cleansing of these lands, the eclipses demarcate this time frame. We're in it now. If the earthquakes and hurricanes don't convince you, watch for the second sign when the dragon is cast down and wreaks havoc here. That may be as soon as 2 weeks, we'll see (no prediction there). Those of you living along the Wasatch Front may have a front row seat for some of the events. Hopefully you have a small boat to get around.

The rest of the world will watch the turmoil in our country as it is cleansed. It has to happen to clear out a space to gather for those that will eventually form Zion.

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Lexew1899
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Lexew1899 »

RED ALERT - RED ALERT- RED ALERT! WE ARE AT DEFCON -2 ACCORDING TO A SECRET PUTIN MEMO!

All these unbelievers mocking us is really getting under my skin! I'M LItteraLLy ShaKIng As I tYpe THis!

RED ALERT - RED ALERT- RED ALERT! WE ARE AT DEFCON -2 ACCORDING TO A SECRET PUTIN MEMO!

I'm studying the survival techniques of the Tardigrade right now, who has Radiation Resistance, Can roll into a ball for water retention, Can live in the vacuum of outterspace. If you are wise, be like me, learn the ancient ways of the Tardigrade and STOP your unbelief!
Image

I implore you to watch and study the tardigrade and emulate it as best you can before the Wasatch Wake-up/Cleansing! All the numbers add up, this isn't a drill! RED ALERT! 9/23/2017

underdog
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by underdog »

I've watched hours and hours of Hebrew and Bible scholars in painstaking detail tell how the stars in the sky on Sat, 9/23/17 fulfill Rev 12. There are literally dozens and dozens of pieces of info (all tied to 9/23/17) that make it very convincing that Sat is a special date in Biblical history, according to Hebrew calendar and the Jewish festivals, etc.

I believe it is the fulfillment.

Do you believe it can't possibly be if Thomas S. Monson doesn't weigh in and clarify? Or are his statements irrelevant to the fulfillment?

Z2100
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Z2100 »

underdog wrote: September 21st, 2017, 9:59 pm Do you believe it can't possibly be if Thomas S. Monson doesn't weigh in and clarify? Or are his statements irrelevant to the fulfillment?
I don't know. If there was an announcment, it would be Eyring or Uchtdorf. Monson is too ill :(

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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by JT1 »

I don't think it is necessary for a member of the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to acknowledge it as a sign for it to be one. I won't think less of it if they say nothing about it.

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Elizabeth
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Elizabeth »

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

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Lexew1899
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Lexew1899 »

All the signs add up. Hurricanes came this year. Wildfires. Earthquakes. Star maps. NASA space images. A bad flu season. An eclipse. Putin secret meetings with E.T. The Myan Calendar. BYU selling caffeine, the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel. Plus a new Star Wars movie comes out this December. And I got a stuffy nose today. How couldn't someone see these signs?

Z2100
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Z2100 »

Lexew1899 wrote: September 22nd, 2017, 9:27 am All the signs add up. Hurricanes came this year. Wildfires. Earthquakes. Star maps. NASA space images. A bad flu season. An eclipse. Putin secret meetings with E.T. The Myan Calendar. BYU selling caffeine, the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel. Plus a new Star Wars movie comes out this December. And I got a stuffy nose today. How couldn't someone see these signs?
“And all of the Earth will be in commotion.”

The Earth hasn’t been this busy since the Great Flood!

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Lexew1899
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Lexew1899 »

Brethren of the 23rd Order. I've made an insignia for us to use on our social media pages to signify you are a true believer in the faith. 9-23-2017, Godspeed!
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Lexew1899
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by Lexew1899 »

Here is another piece I made to commemorate the big day tomorrow.
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jbalm
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Re: September 23rd might not be the fulfillment of Revelation 12 after all

Post by jbalm »

Turns out, end of the world wasn't that big a deal. Kinda bummed that I gotta go to work still.

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