Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

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Ezekiel
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Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Ezekiel »

Interesting thoughts from Brother Gileadi regarding September 23rd.

http://www.isaiahinstitute.com/2017/09/ ... 2017s.html
To many people, the “signs in the heavens” the scriptures predict that will precede the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Luke 21:11; Acts 2:19) are a subject they categorically dismiss. In their minds, astrological events are unrelated to realities on the ground. Associating them with fortune telling and other forbidden practices, they ignore the part of God’s Word that deals with “looking forth for the signs of my coming” (Doctrine & Covenants 39:23). And yet, hasn’t it always been in the nature of God, who created the heavens, to reveal his truth through heavenly mysteries?

When Abraham inquired of God, for example, he learned of “the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God” (Abraham 3:10). As a celestial embodiment of God’s children who attain exaltation, the stars God showed Abraham informed him of different degrees of exaltation and that exaltation was a work in progress: “I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it,” the nearest being Kolob (Abraham 3:2, 16).

Isaiah similarly saw the stars as exalted beings: “Lift your eyes heavenward and see: Who formed these? He who brings forth their hosts by number, calling each one by name. Because he is almighty and all powerful, not one is unaccounted for” (Isaiah 40:26). Persons who experience spiritual rebirth each time they ascend the ladder to heaven, God calls by a new name (Isaiah 43:1; 49:1; 56:5; 62:2). Those who are “formed, molded, and wrought for my own glory,” he re-creates nearer to himself, acknowledging them as his “sons” and “daughters” (Isaiah 43:6–7).

Such esoteric knowledge, which deals with the mysteries of God, forms a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ that is accessible to all: “For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost” (1 Nephi 10:19). While on the one hand “he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word,” on the other, “he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full” (Alma 12:10).

Remembering the many precedents of astrological signs that portended significant events, including the birth of Jesus Christ at his first coming (Helaman 14:1–8, 12; 3 Nephi 1:9), surely the four blood moons on the four successive Jewish feastdays of Passover 2014, Tabernacles 2014, Passover 2015, and Tabernacles 2015 convey a message significant to the times in which we live, particularly for the Jews. And what of the solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 that cut across the entire United States, which has been followed by intensifying national disasters?

The question is one of belief or unbelief: “He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

To those who “fear” or reverence God, the messianic planet Jupiter’s gestation in the womb of the Virgo Constellation, and of its “birth” on September 23rd 2017, evidently contains far more significance than to those who don’t fear God. Particularly is that so when we perceive that all messianic prophecies aren’t equal—that many refer to a temporal savior who restores God’s people Israel to prepare them for Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth; while others, such as Isaiah 53:1–10, refer to a spiritual Savior who “saves his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

The phenomenon called the “Birthpangs of the Messiah” deals with Zion’s entering a time of travail until she brings forth a deliverer—God’s endtime servant: “Before she is in labor, she gives birth; before her ordeal overtakes her, she delivers a son! Who has heard the like, or who has seen such things? Can the earth labor but a day and a nation be born at once? For as soon as she was in labor, Zion gave birth to her children. Shall I bring to a crisis and not bring on birth? says Jehovah. When it is I who cause the birth, shall I hinder it? says your God” (Isaiah 66:7-9).

Like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day, who feared being displaced, those who attempt to hinder Zion’s deliverance oppose the servant’s efforts of gathering Israel’s natural lineages into a new nation of God’s covenant people in God’s Day of Judgment. Despised, abhorred, accused, and disfigured (Isaiah 49:7; 50:8–9; 52:14), God’s servant—his “arm” of righteousness (Isaiah 51:5, 9–12; 52:10)—nonetheless succeeds in restoring Israel in preparation for Jehovah’s coming (Isaiah 49:8–13; 52:13, 15; 55:3–5). The earth’s Creator sustains him (Isaiah 42:1; 44:24–26).

John’s vision of the Woman “travailing in birth, in pain to be delivered” (Revelation 12:2) forms a second witness of this endtime event. Synchronizing his and Isaiah’s visions, we learn that the Woman Zion’s son being “caught up to God and to his throne” (Revelation 12:5) implies his being translated. As with Enoch, Moses, and the Three Nephites, who were translated at similar such experiences, God’s translating his servant accounts for his being healed of his disfigurement (Isaiah 57:18; 3 Nephi 21:10), after which he gains prominence (Isaiah 49:7; 52:13–14; 55:3–5).

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Alaris »

Ezekiel wrote: September 18th, 2017, 11:33 am Interesting thoughts from Brother Gileadi regarding September 23rd.

http://www.isaiahinstitute.com/2017/09/ ... 2017s.html
To many people, the “signs in the heavens” the scriptures predict that will precede the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Luke 21:11; Acts 2:19) are a subject they categorically dismiss. In their minds, astrological events are unrelated to realities on the ground. Associating them with fortune telling and other forbidden practices, they ignore the part of God’s Word that deals with “looking forth for the signs of my coming” (Doctrine & Covenants 39:23). And yet, hasn’t it always been in the nature of God, who created the heavens, to reveal his truth through heavenly mysteries?

When Abraham inquired of God, for example, he learned of “the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God” (Abraham 3:10). As a celestial embodiment of God’s children who attain exaltation, the stars God showed Abraham informed him of different degrees of exaltation and that exaltation was a work in progress: “I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it,” the nearest being Kolob (Abraham 3:2, 16).

Isaiah similarly saw the stars as exalted beings: “Lift your eyes heavenward and see: Who formed these? He who brings forth their hosts by number, calling each one by name. Because he is almighty and all powerful, not one is unaccounted for” (Isaiah 40:26). Persons who experience spiritual rebirth each time they ascend the ladder to heaven, God calls by a new name (Isaiah 43:1; 49:1; 56:5; 62:2). Those who are “formed, molded, and wrought for my own glory,” he re-creates nearer to himself, acknowledging them as his “sons” and “daughters” (Isaiah 43:6–7).

Such esoteric knowledge, which deals with the mysteries of God, forms a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ that is accessible to all: “For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost” (1 Nephi 10:19). While on the one hand “he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word,” on the other, “he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full” (Alma 12:10).

Remembering the many precedents of astrological signs that portended significant events, including the birth of Jesus Christ at his first coming (Helaman 14:1–8, 12; 3 Nephi 1:9), surely the four blood moons on the four successive Jewish feastdays of Passover 2014, Tabernacles 2014, Passover 2015, and Tabernacles 2015 convey a message significant to the times in which we live, particularly for the Jews. And what of the solar eclipse of August 21, 2017 that cut across the entire United States, which has been followed by intensifying national disasters?

The question is one of belief or unbelief: “He that believeth shall be blest with signs following, even as it is written. And unto you it shall be given to know the signs of the times, and the signs of the coming of the Son of Man” (Doctrine & Covenants 68:10–11); “And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man. And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath” (Doctrine & Covenants 45:39–40).

To those who “fear” or reverence God, the messianic planet Jupiter’s gestation in the womb of the Virgo Constellation, and of its “birth” on September 23rd 2017, evidently contains far more significance than to those who don’t fear God. Particularly is that so when we perceive that all messianic prophecies aren’t equal—that many refer to a temporal savior who restores God’s people Israel to prepare them for Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth; while others, such as Isaiah 53:1–10, refer to a spiritual Savior who “saves his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21).

The phenomenon called the “Birthpangs of the Messiah” deals with Zion’s entering a time of travail until she brings forth a deliverer—God’s endtime servant: “Before she is in labor, she gives birth; before her ordeal overtakes her, she delivers a son! Who has heard the like, or who has seen such things? Can the earth labor but a day and a nation be born at once? For as soon as she was in labor, Zion gave birth to her children. Shall I bring to a crisis and not bring on birth? says Jehovah. When it is I who cause the birth, shall I hinder it? says your God” (Isaiah 66:7-9).

Like the scribes and Pharisees of Jesus’ day, who feared being displaced, those who attempt to hinder Zion’s deliverance oppose the servant’s efforts of gathering Israel’s natural lineages into a new nation of God’s covenant people in God’s Day of Judgment. Despised, abhorred, accused, and disfigured (Isaiah 49:7; 50:8–9; 52:14), God’s servant—his “arm” of righteousness (Isaiah 51:5, 9–12; 52:10)—nonetheless succeeds in restoring Israel in preparation for Jehovah’s coming (Isaiah 49:8–13; 52:13, 15; 55:3–5). The earth’s Creator sustains him (Isaiah 42:1; 44:24–26).

John’s vision of the Woman “travailing in birth, in pain to be delivered” (Revelation 12:2) forms a second witness of this endtime event. Synchronizing his and Isaiah’s visions, we learn that the Woman Zion’s son being “caught up to God and to his throne” (Revelation 12:5) implies his being translated. As with Enoch, Moses, and the Three Nephites, who were translated at similar such experiences, God’s translating his servant accounts for his being healed of his disfigurement (Isaiah 57:18; 3 Nephi 21:10), after which he gains prominence (Isaiah 49:7; 52:13–14; 55:3–5).
I posted this in my 9/23 thread. I tried not to make it appear as gloating that Gileadi essentially agrees with what I posted back in June. In fact it is not gloating, because I do not study and post about these things for vainglory or pride but only because I rejoice in the the things I have learned and seek the joy of sharing it with my brethren and sistren. The reason I mentioned I posted this in June is because acute personal revelation is what prompted me to write the blog. So the Isaiah scholar himself agrees it not only is the sign of the advent of the Davidic Servant but that it marks the ascension rather than his birth. So his blog meant a tremendous deal to me personally as it serves as reinforcing my own witness and deeply sacred experiences. THAT is how I know those who are trying to shut down discussing these things are listing to the wrong spirit. The fact these naysayers have hardened their hearts is evident.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... aimer.html

Cheers! :) I miss the party smiley face. :mrgreen: I'm not sure why there is a green smiley.
Alma 30:33 And notwithstanding the many labors which I have performed in the church, I have never received so much as even one senine for my labor; neither has any of my brethren, save it were in the judgment-seat; and then we have received only according to law for our time.

34 And now, if we do not receive anything for our labors in the church, what doth it profit us to labor in the church save it were to declare the truth, that we may have rejoicings in the joy of our brethren?

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 18th, 2017, 7:49 pm
Ezekiel wrote: September 18th, 2017, 11:33 am Interesting thoughts from Brother Gileadi regarding September 23rd.

http://www.isaiahinstitute.com/2017/09/ ... 2017s.html
Those are the first words of Gileadi that I've ever read. He certainly seems to be a student of the scriptures.
You should read about him and his conversion. He studied in some exclusive school in Israel and if I remember right he converted there from Judaism. He makes a tremendous point about just how well the Jews know the Torah and how silly Christians look when trying to shoehorn prophesies about the end times servant - the prophesies about Israel's temporal salvation - into prophesies about Jesus Christ. I wish I had the quote handy. I can search for it if you'd like, but I'm excited for you as you've just unlocked a treasure trove of information. I don't always see eye to eye and think Gileadi can be overzealous but I have been wrong in that judgement before.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Alaris »

Found it :
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/resourc ... of-isaiah
5. Isaiah Presents Two Different Kinds of Messianic Prophecies

Many people assume that all messianic prophecies are equal. However, that isn’t the case. There are important differences. Why do we suppose Jews and Christians don’t see eye to eye on the matter of a Messiah? The Jews know their scriptures well. Messianic prophecies originated with them. Their brightest minds and most devoted scholars have diligently analyzed the writings of the prophets and transmitted them faithfully down the generations. Christians, on the other hand, who are identified with the Gentiles, didn’t produce these prophecies. Yet Christians often act as if believing in Jesus as their Messiah is all that matters—as if that gives them the right to expropriate the Jewish scriptures and teach as gospel whatever interpretation suits them in the moment.

Look closer and you will find that Isaiah speaks of two separate individuals and of two distinct messianic roles. One is temporal, the other spiritual. Note also the context in which a prophecy appears. Taking things out of context is another thing Gentiles do. Let us say God is speaking about his “servant” in one instance and about his “son” in another. And yet, the context in each case is Israel’s end-time restoration, an event that is temporal in nature. In that case, God isn’t speaking about two different persons but just one. Especially as the terms “servant” and “son” together, not separately, define a vassal’s relationship to his overlord. As with Moses, moreover, God doesn’t call multiple prophets to guide and direct his people all at the same time but just one.

Let us also say we discover that Isaiah prophesies profusely about Israel’s end-time restoration, in which God’s servant and son releases people from bondage, unites Israel’s tribes, conquers enemies, and so forth. But because Isaiah limits himself to using types from the past to predict the end-time, where would he find the type of just one person in the past doing all those things? None exists. In that case, Isaiah creates composites of types, in which a single end-time leader accomplishes what several leaders did in the past. When restoring God’s people, moreover, God’s servant and son not only does what they did, he also exemplifies their character traits. That is why Isaiah depicts him as a composite of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, Hezekiah, and Cyrus.

You may suppose that Cyrus’ mention by name doesn’t fit that pattern. But look closer and observe that Isaiah’s “Cyrus” was never a purely historical person but is itself a composite figure. It combines the types of Cyrus and Moses in one instance (Isaiah 44:27–28) and of Cyrus and David in another (Isaiah 45:1). In fact, only in Isaiah 53:1–10—in which God is not speaking of his servant and son—do we find a prophecy of a spiritual Messiah. Unlike God’s servant and son who prepares a people for Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth, the figure Isaiah depicts in Isaiah 53:1–10 is Jehovah himself. A literary structure that juxtaposes the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 with the King of Zion in Isaiah 52–53 identifies him as Israel’s God, the King of Zion.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by JT1 »

This is the first I have heard of the "Davidic Servant". If I understand correctly from this and similar threads, this person is not yet identified and will have a key role in the latter days, separate from the Savior and any prophets whom we currently have or have had in the present dispensation. I have not had time to research this, but I am curious if the conclusion regarding a "Davidic Servant" is drawn from the same (or similar) scholarship/Jewish tradition as referred to in the following article. This article obviously draws a different conclusion, but I was curious if anyone knows whether some of the source material is the same? https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/selections ... seph#_edn1

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Re: The Gileadi Crutch

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:09 pm A messiah is an anointed one, sure, but everyone who goes through the temple becomes an anointed one. And why must we be anointed? Aren't we saviors on mount Zion? Don't we perform the work of redemption of the dead? So, there are endless anointed ones. The scriptures, then, speak of not of two Messiahs, one temporal and one spiritual, but of two anointed individuals who would perform the whole work of salvation, the one performing the whole work of individual salvation (Christ) and the other who would perform the whole work of group salvation (Joseph-Nephi.)
The man anointed to gather Israel, to restore them to their temporal inheritance first in symbolism of their spiritual inheritance is anointed to that end. He is literally the Temporal Messiah by that definition. His temporal anointing is a deep, rich symbol of the inheritance, power, and glory that awaits us as we progress towards godhood. He is the full measure of man who has become a prince, a son of inheritance. And he uses that power to save Israel in participatory salvation. After all the powerful things you've said about the end times Elias, I'm surprised to see you minimize his anointing which minimizes the deep, rich symbolism of ascension, inheritance, proxy salvation, and participatory godhood.

Edit: Two anointed individuals are two Messiahs. They are two halves of a whole ministry. The greater ministry is obviously Jesus Christ and is the ministry of Mercy - 3.5 years. He turned the other cheek to the smiters (Isaiah 53 I believe.)

The lesser ministry is Justice. 3.5 years. With the breath of his lips will this Messiah slay the wicked. Isaiah 11.

7 years together as a complete balance of Justice and Mercy.

I do like the comparison of individual versus group. Apt. Well played!

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Re: The Gileadi Crutch

Post by dafty »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 1:09 pm
alaris wrote: September 18th, 2017, 10:54 pm Found it :
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/resourc ... of-isaiah
5. Isaiah Presents Two Different Kinds of Messianic Prophecies

Many people assume that all messianic prophecies are equal. However, that isn’t the case. There are important differences. Why do we suppose Jews and Christians don’t see eye to eye on the matter of a Messiah? The Jews know their scriptures well. Messianic prophecies originated with them. Their brightest minds and most devoted scholars have diligently analyzed the writings of the prophets and transmitted them faithfully down the generations. Christians, on the other hand, who are identified with the Gentiles, didn’t produce these prophecies. Yet Christians often act as if believing in Jesus as their Messiah is all that matters—as if that gives them the right to expropriate the Jewish scriptures and teach as gospel whatever interpretation suits them in the moment.

Look closer and you will find that Isaiah speaks of two separate individuals and of two distinct messianic roles. One is temporal, the other spiritual. Note also the context in which a prophecy appears. Taking things out of context is another thing Gentiles do. Let us say God is speaking about his “servant” in one instance and about his “son” in another. And yet, the context in each case is Israel’s end-time restoration, an event that is temporal in nature. In that case, God isn’t speaking about two different persons but just one. Especially as the terms “servant” and “son” together, not separately, define a vassal’s relationship to his overlord. As with Moses, moreover, God doesn’t call multiple prophets to guide and direct his people all at the same time but just one.

Let us also say we discover that Isaiah prophesies profusely about Israel’s end-time restoration, in which God’s servant and son releases people from bondage, unites Israel’s tribes, conquers enemies, and so forth. But because Isaiah limits himself to using types from the past to predict the end-time, where would he find the type of just one person in the past doing all those things? None exists. In that case, Isaiah creates composites of types, in which a single end-time leader accomplishes what several leaders did in the past. When restoring God’s people, moreover, God’s servant and son not only does what they did, he also exemplifies their character traits. That is why Isaiah depicts him as a composite of Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, Hezekiah, and Cyrus.

You may suppose that Cyrus’ mention by name doesn’t fit that pattern. But look closer and observe that Isaiah’s “Cyrus” was never a purely historical person but is itself a composite figure. It combines the types of Cyrus and Moses in one instance (Isaiah 44:27–28) and of Cyrus and David in another (Isaiah 45:1). In fact, only in Isaiah 53:1–10—in which God is not speaking of his servant and son—do we find a prophecy of a spiritual Messiah. Unlike God’s servant and son who prepares a people for Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth, the figure Isaiah depicts in Isaiah 53:1–10 is Jehovah himself. A literary structure that juxtaposes the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14 with the King of Zion in Isaiah 52–53 identifies him as Israel’s God, the King of Zion.
Lol. I once knew a convert to Mormonism from Judaism who was a neuroscientist and also a genius level intellect. (I think he told me his I.Q. was 144, but I forget which scale that was based upon.) Anyway, the man was looking to hire a consultant and he shared with me a bit of the project he had been working on for the past 10 or so years. After listening a bit, I realized that his research matched some of my own, so I sent him some of my writings and the conclusions I had come to. He read them and was baffled as to how I had figured out this information, for his research was unpublished and nobody else had come up with the information he had. I told him that I didn't study anything, I just used the Holy Ghost (the gift of the word of knowledge) to extract the information and then put it all together. It took me a couple of days to write it all down. He had spent 10 years of study and searching and research, using neuroscience to come to his conclusions, and he was "pretty sure" they were right, whereas I had done the same in an instant, but it took me two days to write it all down, and I was "absolutely certain" the information and my conclusions were correct.

Now, he didn't believe I had the gift of the word of knowledge, so he chalked it up to me probably being a genius like he was, or of even greater intellect.

Regardless of his unbelief, I was impressed with the man's diligence in searching out this information and figuring out so much of it, despite taking 10 years of his life to do it. He ended up showing me some more of his research and projects, and I looked at the stuff and instantly could see (by the word of knowledge) where the errors were in his research, but I didn't have the heart to tell him. He was firmly established on neuroscience and his intellect, and had not any clue as to how the gifts of the Spirit worked. To him it all seemed like magic.

I mention all of this because now you present some more of Gileadi's writings, who, like this other man, started out a Jew, and like the other Jew, had a certain way of doing things, a certain way of reading the scriptures and so forth. Gileadi has read the scriptures and come to the conclusion that the end times servant is like a composite of the ancient servants. He arrived at this conclusion by diligent study of the scriptures. Notice how similar that is to my conclusions:
Joseph-Nephi will be patterned after all the prophets, seers, revelators and other servants of the Lord. So, he will be like Moses, delivering God’s people and gathering them out of the Gentile nations (and the Lost Ten Tribes from wherever they currently are), and then numbering them. And he will be like Joshua, bringing them into their tribal lands and then giving out inheritances according to their numbers. Joseph-Nephi will do all of this and much, much more. (Quoted from the blog post, John the Revelator is not the Elias who restores all things)
I came to the above conclusion not from diligent study of the scriptures, but from my gift of the word of knowledge. The fact that Gileadi was able to come to this same conclusion without the gift of knowledge, merely by using the Jewish techniques for studying the scriptures (and analyzing all things) impresses the heck out of me. I'm impressed by such diligence. Truly, diligence in searching the scriptures can bestow many rewards.

That said, there are limits to using the Jewish techniques. Their techniques is a sort of science, if you will, and just as science has its limits, so do these techniques. The gift of the word of knowledge has told me much more than what can be learned by diligent study of the scriptures. Who, of all the people claiming to believe in a Davidic servant, have given his name? Perhaps some will say, "Well, it says 'my servant David' so perhaps it will be David." But that's just a guess. Others might say, "Well, it says he'll be called after the name of Joseph, so he'll be named Joseph." That scripture is a bit more explicit, but still doesn't narrow it down. All of this is just groping in the dark. Without the gifts of the Spirit operating, all the scripture study you do can only take you so far.

I've given the guy's surname (Joseph-Nephi), indicated that his given name will be the same as his father's given name, that he'll be no older than in his twenties, that he'll be at least 6' 4" tall, that he'll have the strength of the Lord (that is, Samson-like strength), that he'll have all 14 of the best spiritual gifts, that he'll have the Liahona, sword of Laban, Jaredite breastplate, Urim and Thummim, a seer stone, a unique form of transportation, a unique form of communication, be dressed unlike anything we've ever seen before, will have a full beard, be an American (USA), be a latter-day saint, not be in the LDS leadership, and so on and so forth. How can anyone extract all this information from the scriptures alone? You can't. This stuff comes from the word of knowledge. I've taught that he'll re-translate the Book of Mormon (restoring the 116 lost manuscript pages) and it'll be a functional translation, not a word-for-word translation like Joseph Smith did. I've prophesied the guy will install a perfected NAC and bring forth all the scriptures that are mentioned, which we don't have, and translate all of that into all the languages of the world, both living and dead languages, and I have taught many other things both in public and in private about him and what he will do. None of this stuff is taught by anyone else, anywhere. Why? Because the people who know about him, glean some information about him from the scriptures, through diligent study and prayer. All of the other information that is not in the scriptures, can only come from the Holy Ghost. If anybody knows any of the above stuff, all of which is extra-scriptural, they either learned it from me, or directly from the Holy Ghost.

I'm not saying this to brag. I'm saying this to show that the word of knowledge is superior in all ways to the Jewish techniques. I can extract all the information Gileadi does, plus a whole lot more, plus I can come to the correct conclusions. This is not to diss Gileadi or any other who studies the scriptures. I am pleased to see Gileadi view the September 23rd thing as a sign. That is a good thing to see. The error lies in that it is viewed as a literal sign, and not the shadow sign that it actually is. But regardless, it is better to view a shadow sign as a literal sign, than to not view it as a sign at all. It is better to believe some truth, than none at all.

And this is where the word of knowledge comes in. This gift can correct all the errors found everywhere. It can unfold all things. Gileadi says there are two distinct messianic roles found in the scriptures, one temporal and one spiritual. Is that true? Kinda, sorta, but not really. There is only one Messiah. He's the Savior and Redeemer of the world. He is both a temporal and a spiritual Messiah, for the atonement deals with both sin and death, both the spiritual death and the temporal death of the individual. So, there is only one Messiah. But there are many saviors on mount Zion, right? So, there is an individual Savior, who is Christ; and there are multiple saviors on mount Zion, who participate in group salvation. The distinction is between individual salvation and group salvation. As I have taught on my blog and in private, there is no individual salvation without group salvation and there is no group salvation without individual salvation. Both types of salvation are required for salvation to go forth. So, the individual Savior (Christ) is necessary and also the group saviors are necessary. But the group is powerless to perform all the necessary work, nor can they perform it perfectly (as it is required), so God provides a miracle-working seer (Joseph-Nephi) to make up for the lack of the group. He does it all, and perfectly so, so that the salvation of man is complete before Jesus comes back.

A messiah is an anointed one, sure, but everyone who goes through the temple becomes an anointed one. And why must we be anointed? Aren't we saviors on mount Zion? Don't we perform the work of redemption of the dead? So, there are endless anointed ones. The scriptures, then, speak of not of two Messiahs, one temporal and one spiritual, but of two anointed individuals who would perform the whole work of salvation, the one performing the whole work of individual salvation (Christ) and the other who would perform the whole work of group salvation (Joseph-Nephi.)

Gileadi and others don't know who the "Davidic servant" is, or what his name is. They believe there is a Davidic servant, but who is he? They don't have a clue. They know some of what his role will be, for the scriptures give some details about some things and hints about other things. But to fully understand who and what this guy is all about, you need to either have the gift of the word of knowledge, or have access to someone who has that gift.

Joseph Smith had the gift of the word of knowledge. He could pull down as much information as he wanted, on demand. When he was around, we had access to someone who had that gift. But his gift operated in mode two only. In fact, all the gifts he had appear to have operated in mode two only. (There are two modes to every gift: mode one and mode two.) The saints, seeing Joseph Smith having these gifts, and seeing them operate solely in mode two, have assumed that that's the only way that these gifts operate. But the saints are wrong. The gift of knowing the differences of administration allows the possessor to discern all the ways these gifts operate. The ancient Nephites possessed the gifts in both modes. They could use a gift in a multitude of ways, and their gifts were fully empowered.

Currently, or from the death of Joseph Smith to now, the gift of the word of knowledge has been, more or less, taken away from the church. Think our leaders have the word of knowledge? Uh-uh. The gift to prophecy? Nope. They can't pull anything new out of the heavens. They can't utter a true prophesy of the future and have it come to pass. But they have been given the spirit of wisdom, by which they operate according to what is expedient, and this law of expediency is what they follow. But this has left a vacuum in the church for new knowledge. And so the church has relied upon scholars, and the Jewish techniques, and the Christian studies, to be able to figure out the knowledge found in the scriptures, and the meaning of the prophecies. But that only takes you so far, and is often riddled with errors throughout. Or, conversely, the apostate church has relied upon impostors and pretenders to give them pretended new knowledge and pretended prophecy and fake scripture, which is also riddled with errors and falsehoods.

Anyway, I will end this discourse. Suffice it to say that when Joseph-Nephi makes his appearance, given the state of affairs among the church and world at large, and starts using his fully empowered gifts in both modes, every believer is going to ditch the scholars and the Jewish techniques and the Christian studies, and will rely upon his words and gifts to guide them in the correct path, and these believers will end up learning everything without any errors. In the meantime...there's Gileadi!
not that you care, but personally I do have 3 problems with your bold statements:
1-I have followed your blog for years now. You shared on it that you were thoroughly convinced that the declaration would be proclaimed by certain date...you had promised your daughter...you were wrong(long story short). So where was your gift then?
2- Do you think you are the only one with that gift? Because, on this forum alone, I know at least two people that had visions and used what they consider that gift, and yet came to different conclusions than you?
3- You say Gileadi used only and exclusively his scholarly skills to acquire the knowledge about Davidic Servant and didnt possess the gift? How do you know? He used them skills as a tool yet surely was guided by the Spirit?!
Ps. I make them comments not maliciously but with good intent, hoping to provoke a thought rather than cause offence...

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by FTC »

This will be AWESOME!! Both Avraham and the 100% failed "prophets" of ldsfreedomforum.com will get a "Your prophecy status: FAIL" (tm) simultaneously. Two birds with one stone will be knocked completely out of the tree.

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Re: We are all messiahs

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm So, to state that there is a doctrine of two messiahs is nonsense. The doctrine in the scriptures is of a plurality of messiahs, of an endless number of messiahs. But there are only two messiahs who perform the whole work. But all work is required, both the work done by Christ, the work done by the Josephite and the work done by the saints:
Perhaps you are being a bit too defensive here. If there is a doctrine of endless messiahs, and there is, then a doctrine of specific Messianic missions to which souls are anointed is anything but nonsensical. The 3.5 halves of a whole are highly emblematic of two ministries that compliment each other - over which there is an annointed / Messiah. You even said yourself that one is individual and one is group, which is beautiful. Two ministries for two messiahs. Nobody has said there are only two messiahs.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm
For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23)
Making a division of these two into a temporal messiah on one hand and a spiritual Messiah on the other paints a false picture, because the whole thing is spiritual from beginning to end:
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm
Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created. (D&C 29:34)
Nobody gets spiritually saved without Joseph-Nephi's work being performed. You seriously think that his work is merely temporal?
Your tone here is a bit off base as the rhetorical question is a bit condescending and false. Have I said that his work is merely temporal or just temporal? Nope. I have in fact stated that he will be their prince forever - they will ascend with him as he ascends. Of course it's spiritual - the gathering is both physical and spiritual. The word "temporal" is only meant to give deference to the spiritual messiah. I didn't coin these phrases, but I agree with Gileadi on them wholeheartedly as they are illustrative and indicative of different missions--one being collective and one being individual as you said beautifully.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm The whole thing is connected from one end to the other. There is no such thing as a temporal messiah or a spiritual Messiah. These things are fictions created by men. All divinely anointed people (messiahs) who perform the work God has given them to do are doing a work of spiritual salvation. Thus, all are spiritual messiahs and not a single one is a temporal messiah.
OK. Your point is valid. Of course he is not just a temporal messiah. I'm rephrasing Gileadi here - The davidic covenant is one of proxy salvation where a Moses-like figure intercedes and suffers on behalf of Israel to liberate them. The dispensation heads have all done this tone one degree or another. It's part of being a prince - and it will be no different with the TEMPORAL messiah. I put it in caps just to rub you raw ;) You could call all eight Messiahs:

The Messiah of Consecration
The Messiah of Chastity and ZION
The Messiah of the Law of The Gospel
The Messiah of Sacrifice
The Messiah of Obedience
The Messiah of the Atoning Sacrifice and Mercy
The Gentilic Messiah
The Messiah of the Last Dispensation
The Messiah of the Gathering of Israel and Judgement

The term only means "anointed one" - but to show reverence to THE messiah we should differentiate. Only two of these Messiah's pertain to Justice and Mercy - THE Messiah and The Messiah of the Gathering of Israel and Judgement - but to avoid repetition we can just call him the temporal messiah.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm Every messiah, then, performs temporal work (things done in the body, with the body, for other bodies) which is spiritual (designed to save). This goes for Christ, who performed a temporal work (suffering, dying and resurrecting) which was spiritual (designed to save us), and for Joseph-Nephi, who will perform a temporal work (the sealing, gathering and so on) which will be spiritual (designed to save us), and for the saints, who perform a temporal work (the work for the dead, etc.), which is spiritual (designed to save others.)
Yep. So of the two, which one has more of a temporal job would you say? Which one is more of a spiritual mission? ;) ;)
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm None of this doctrine downplays the importance of Joseph-Nephi, nor of Christ, nor of the saints, because they are all important. What you do is as important as what Christ and Joseph-Nephi does, because if you don't do what you are required to do, you don't get saved, despite the works of Christ and Joseph-Nephi! It is the same principle for everyone else.

Indeed.

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Re: The individual temporal Messiah and the group spiritual messiah

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:58 pm
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm OK. Your point is valid. Of course he is not just a temporal messiah. I'm rephrasing Gileadi here
But you shouldn't rephrase Gileadi. Gileadi is wrong on this point. If you want to call him a messiah, suit yourself, but calling him a temporal messiah, or the temporal messiah, is not correct. Group messiah or collective messiah fits, but not temporal messiah (and I'll explain why below.)
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm The davidic covenant is one of proxy salvation where a Moses-like figure intercedes and suffers on behalf of Israel to liberate them.
There is no other type of salvation but proxy salvation. Christ was a proxy savior, doing something for us. Joseph-Nephi is a proxy savior, performing work for us. The saints are proxy saviors, performing works for the dead. So, every covenant of God is based upon proxy salvation, because there is no other type of salvation.

alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm The dispensation heads have all done this tone one degree or another. It's part of being a prince - and it will be no different with the TEMPORAL messiah. I put it in caps just to rub you raw ;)
Lol. It doesn't rub me raw. However I'm trying to show you a more accurate way of viewing this. But if you choose to stay with the inaccurate terms, suite yourself.
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm You could call all eight Messiahs:

The Messiah of Consecration
The Messiah of Chastity and ZION
The Messiah of the Law of The Gospel
The Messiah of Sacrifice
The Messiah of Obedience
The Messiah of the Atoning Sacrifice and Mercy
The Gentilic Messiah
The Messiah of the Last Dispensation
The Messiah of the Gathering of Israel and Judgement
Uh, I had no idea there were eight messiahs. Who came up with this list? I suppose the Gentilic messiah was Joseph Smith? I'm thinking you have some of the dispensation heads in mind, such as Adam, Noah, Enoch, Moses and so forth.
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm The term only means "anointed one" - but to show reverence to THE messiah we should differentiate. Only two of these Messiah's pertain to Justice and Mercy - THE Messiah and The Messiah of the Gathering of Israel and Judgement - but to avoid repetition we can just call him the temporal messiah.
Yeah, but you could say the same thing with any on that list. "Only two of these messiah's pertain to Obedience and Sacrifice," or "Only two of these messiah's pertain to the Last Dispensation and the Law of the Gospel." Etc. If they are all messiah's , they are all messiah's. Them being messiah's doesn't set them apart from any other messiah. Their mission sets them apart. In other words, the title, "The Messiah of Chastity and ZION" is only unique in the "Chastity and ZION" part, because it's just another messiah, like all the rest. They are all anointed, right? But their missions are different. So we differentiate each one from the other per their missions.

What sets the individual Messiah and the collective messiah apart from all the rest of the messiah's, both those on this list and all other saintly messiah's, is that these two messiah's perform infinite work perfectly to completion. That's it. All others perform finite work imperfectly and incompletely. Just these two do the whole work. And the two are differentiated from each other in that one performs a work of individual salvation, while the other performs a work of group or collective salvation. The one is God, the other a mere man.
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:42 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:14 pm Every messiah, then, performs temporal work (things done in the body, with the body, for other bodies) which is spiritual (designed to save). This goes for Christ, who performed a temporal work (suffering, dying and resurrecting) which was spiritual (designed to save us), and for Joseph-Nephi, who will perform a temporal work (the sealing, gathering and so on) which will be spiritual (designed to save us), and for the saints, who perform a temporal work (the work for the dead, etc.), which is spiritual (designed to save others.)
Yep. So of the two, which one has more of a temporal job would you say? Which one is more of a spiritual mission? ;) ;)
Are you sure you are ready for this answer? You did ask me the question, so if you don't like the answer it is your fault for asking me.

Of the two, Jesus had more of the temporal job. Why? Because Jesus's atonement was purely physical (temporal.) He physically suffered, both in body and spirit, physically dying, and then physically resurrecting Himself. The suffering part was done by the gift of the word of knowledge, He knowing our pains and sufferings, to completion. The death part was an act of agency on His part, He voluntarily giving up the ghost. His resurrection was accomplished by the gift of the working of miracles, in which He entered his dead, physical body and miraculously re-attached His divine Spirit to it. All of these acts were physically (temporally) done, and they were done in time, not in eternity.

Now compare that to the work of the Josephite. The Josephite is a mere man, an imperfect man like any one of us. To perform his infinite task he must use the gift of the working of miracles, and all the other 13 gifts, completely maxed out. To put it another way, he must use all 14 of the best SPIRITUAL gifts continuously to an infinite degree, completely maxed out in power levels, and in perfection. His work is entirely spiritual in nature. There is nothing physical (temporal) about it. Nevertheless, he will also have all the physical gifts, too. But it will be these maxed out spiritual gifts that accomplish the task.

Also, he starts out in one point of time, and the proceeds to gather all things in one, including all of time, until there is "time no longer" and we enter into eternity. So he starts in time and finishes the task in eternity. To put it another way, his temporal probation begins as a temporal probation and then using these gifts he brings time (the temporal state) into the state of eternity (the spiritual state.) Jesus never did this. Jesus's work was in time only. It was singularly temporal. He never did anything in eternity, only in time. Yet his temporal work accomplished a spiritual salvation anyway.

So, to answer your second question, "Which one is more of a spiritual mission?" that would be the Josephite's mission. :)
The dispensation heads align with the laws of the gospel. Check your gift of knowledge on it. Each was anointed to that end. Messiah.

The Jews have been and are looking for temporal salvation - a physical kingdom on earth. A gathering. They are looking for the purifier of the sons of Levi to offer again an offering in righteousness. Your attempt to sound deep and profound by explaining that Jesus is the temporal Messiah is just silly. We all know the Jews were and are still looking for a temporal Messiah. Most Christians are rubbing their hands in anticipation to the fulfilment of Zechariah 13:6:
Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Though I share in that anticipation, most Christians are blind to the TEMPORAL Messiah. Now I've added bold and italics. Next time it will be large! ;) The great irony is both Christians and Jews are right and both are wrong! Both groups are full of pride and think they are right and are condescending to each other. I read a hilarious Jewish blog calling Christians "heathen Christians" because they don't understand how the Hebrew word used when Jesus describes Himself being one with the Father has something to do with a rope with three strings being intertwined to be one rope. As LDS I'm reading his post smiling. He's right, but he's wrong. Both groups are.

The Jews will have a temporal Messiah that most Christians will likely reject - maybe even call him an Anti-Christ. The Jewish smug smile will be short lived when the TEMPORAL Messiah tells them who sent him. "I was sent by YHWH - the Great IM - The First and The Lands - even Jesus Christ." I can't wait to see the looks on their faces then. He will restore them to their temporal kingdom - gather them physically aka temporally - all the TEMPORAL things they hoped would happen against the Roman occupation. Of course it's also spiritual. But to differentiate the two salvations of Israel - find better terms and I'll consider them. ;)

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Re: "There is save one Messiah spoken of by the prophets"

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm
alaris wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:36 pm The Jews have been and are looking for temporal salvation - a physical kingdom on earth. A gathering. They are looking for the purifier of the sons of Levi to offer again an offering in righteousness. Your attempt to sound deep and profound by explaining that Jesus is the temporal Messiah is just silly.
Silly?! No, it was clever. And it wasn't an attempt to sound deep and profound. It was merely deep and profound. And it answered your question. But it didn't explain that Jesus is the temporal Messiah. Read again what I wrote. There is no temporal messiah, right? There are only spiritual messiahs. You asked which one has more of a temporal job, and that was Jesus's work.

The Jews, though, are looking for a temporal Messiah, someone to save them with a temporal salvation. And God will do that, too. But their temporal salvation comes through the spiritual gifts of the Josephite, not through his temporal exertions. So, the order is reversed with the two major messiah's. Christ performs a temporal labor and a spiritual salvation comes about (and also a temporal salvation.) Joseph-Nephi performs a spiritual labor and a temporal salvation comes about (and also a spiritual salvation.)

You are stuck on this temporal/spiritual Messiah thing because you are seeing the effects that come of the efforts involved. Christ performed His temporal labors. What effects do we see that come of it? Spiritual effects now (the remission of our sins, our changed natures and the gifts of the Spirit) and later the temporal effects (the resurrection of the dead.) Joseph-Nephi will perform his spiritual labors. What affects will see some of it? Temporal effects now (the gathering, sealing, numbering, inheritances, etc.) and later the spiritual effects (the perfection of the mankind.) So, you label each of these two messiah's not according to the work they perform, but according to the first perceived effects that are witnessed. But both effects (temporal and spiritual) proceed from each messiah.
I get being clever and making a point. Sadly your efforts to elevate yourself at the expense of both someone else and common sense / truth are apparent. So it appears you are the one stuck - started digging a hole for yourself a few posts ago when Dafty asked you to explain your Joseph Smith prophecy. I'm not stuck on anything. I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong and I do so without spending several paragraphs puffing up my chest.

The "Temporal Messiah" is only meant to make an obvious point - obvious to anyone reading these wordy posts. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a Donkey. The Davidic Servant's ministry will be more temporally (Can I use that word? ;)) glorious as he is temporally gathering all of Israel and physically building ZION Enoch-style. If you haven't read my article on the double rainbow, I strongly suggest it. The symbolism of the second rainbow is that the order in heaven is inverted to the order on Earth, which is why a pole reversal to go before the gathering makes so much sense to me. Things are upside down now. The greatest prophets and the Savior Himself are all on a ministry of descent with the Savior descending below all. The temporal lessons are those of meekness and humility in order to attain eternal rewards. Things are about to flip themselves right side up. The ministry of the Davidic Servant will symbolize the glory and reward that awaits after the time of the gentiles comes to an end.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm Now, I am willing to put up a friendly wager, that when the Josephite gets out of his box, if he is asked, "Are you the temporal messiah?" he will answer, "There is no temporal messiah. There's only one Messiah, and He is Christ. I am His forerunner, the Elias who prepares the way of the Lord by restoring all things." Or something like that. Remember, I teach that this guy will be a Nephite, and so he'll teach this Nephite doctrine:
I'll match that wager. My friendly wager is that he will say something like, "Well I wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself the temporal Messiah. I would be happy to teach primary if that is the Lord's will. If he would like me to gather Israel, then call me what you will, but through the Lord I can accomplish all things." Or something similar...
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm
Wherefore, he shall bring forth his words unto them, which words shall judge them at the last day, for they shall be given them for the purpose of convincing them of the true Messiah, who was rejected by them; and unto the convincing of them that they need not look forward any more for a Messiah to come, for there should not any come, save it should be a false Messiah which should deceive the people; for there is save one Messiah spoken of by the prophets, and that Messiah is he who should be rejected of the Jews. (2 Nephi 25:18)
I'd put money on it that he will deny that he is a temporal messiah. He will flatly deny that he is a messiah, period. He will admit that he has been anointed, true, for he will be a latter-day saint, and like all latter-day saints who have been through the temple and received their endowments, will have been washed and anointed. But he will deny being a messiah, of any type and he will only say, as Nephi here wrote, that "there is only one Messiah spoken of by the prophets" and He is Christ. Now, when that happens (and it will, if he is asked that question), will you then give up this broken record of calling him the temporal messiah?
That's some impressive clairvoyance. You've suggested you do not know who this person is, yet you seem to know exactly what he would say in any given situation. I don't think gambling money on this is a good idea to even suggest. However he will not flatly deny any truth purposefully being a more advanced being than most though I have a good feeling he'd be modest for the same reasons. You do realize that flatly denying the word "anointed" in hebrew and then admitting he's been anointed is a contradiction ... what do you think will happen on 9/23? If this is about the Davidic Servant or the Josephite as you call him ... this is an anointing to Heavenly Royalty to become a prince of peace. In the temple we are anointed to become such....this IS becoming such. ;)
Abraham 1:2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
Ezekiel 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
D&C 107:54 And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel.
The spiritual aspect of becoming a prince of peace is of course far grander. I do not think a single person would buy that Jesus' ministry was more temporal in symbolism or any other meaning however. This is the physical deliverance the Jews have been waiting for - there are just spiritual implications to which the Jews are completely blind.

The idea of saying the Josephite / Elias' ministry is more spiritual than Christ's would probably be rejected by the Josephite himself don't you think? He's not saving anyone from this:
2 Nephi 9:8 O the wisdom of God, his mercy and grace! For behold, if the flesh should rise no more our spirits must become subject to that angel who fell from before the presence of the Eternal God, and became the devil, to rise no more.

9 And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness.

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Bronco73idi »

I liked the start of this topic. But sadly it went south with LDS Anarchist puffing up his chest. 😔

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Re: Avraham Gileadi Ph.D - Does Isaiah Decode Sept. 23rd 2017’s Astrological Sign?

Post by Hogmeister »

I keep telling you that Avrahams Davidic servant is the angel from the east, the latter day Elias (which is Elijah) and in fact is the collective Priesthood of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints.

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