The Signs of the Marred Servant

[Durzan]

When Joseph Smith translated the plates, each book wasn't divided into chapters like we have done today. Chapters 20 and 21 of 3rd Nephi were part of one cohesive whole... a sermon being preached by Christ himself. Therefore the context of chapter 20 would naturally flow into and support the context of Chapter 21. Also keep in mind that many prophecies have multiple layers to them. Thus it is possible that chapter 21 refers to primarily the Marred Servant while also serving as a secondary reference to Joseph Smith.

[BeNotDeceived]

Not to derail the subject, but in Ezekiel 37, what do we make of the headnote that says, "David (the Messiah) will reign over them." Let me first say that I understand headnotes are not doctrine. But they were put there by people who know a lot more than me. Why do we suppose they are calling the Latter-Day David the Messiah?

Scriptures
Boyd K. Packer
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

... New chapter headings would be written. ... There was a spirit of inspiration brooding over their work, and those working with the project talked often of how it was blessed. There were humbling spiritual experiences. ... Without the inspired help of hundreds of dedicated workers it would have been impossible! Among them were scholars in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Old and New Testament studies. ...

[mmm..cheese]

What about the 2 witnesses and their relationship to this servant?

By asking this I do not want to give the impression that I am all on board with this idea, but I will let people talk...

[Durzan]

What about the 2 witnesses and their relationship to this servant?

By asking this I do not want to give the impression that I am all on board with this idea, but I will let people talk...

Honestly, I don't really know. My theory has long been that the Marred Servant was one of those two witnesses (seems to fit, but I could be wrong).

I have seen theories saying that they are the sons of the Marred Servant, but I'm not sure that said theories make as much sense.

At the very least, If one of them ain't the Marred Servant himself, I hazard a guess that they are serving under the Marred Servant as either an Apostle or member of the 1st Presidency. By that point, all three will likely be good friends if they weren't already.

[Alaris]

What about the 2 witnesses and their relationship to this servant?

By asking this I do not want to give the impression that I am all on board with this idea, but I will let people talk...

Honestly, I don't really know. My theory has long been that the Marred Servant was one of those two witnesses (seems to fit, but I could be wrong).

I have seen theories saying that they are the sons of the Marred Servant, but I'm not sure that said theories make as much sense.

At the very least, If one of them ain't the Marred Servant himself, I hazard a guess that they are serving under the Marred Servant as either an Apostle or member of the 1st Presidency. By that point, all three will likely be good friends if they weren't already.

I agree. He's either one of them or they are directly tied to him as his witnesses. The question is what are they witnessing?

[I AM]

I don't think that "marred" means marred physically like

one might think.

Look at this verse below. "therefore they shall not hurt him,

although he shall be marred because of them"

Even though the next line says " I will heal him "

Most people read this to mean that he was hurt physically, but

the line before says "therefore they shall not hurt him"

So I believe that there are other ways that a person can be healed

other than when their body gets hurt.



3 Nephi 21:10

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.



So like I said above

I believe the marred servant is marred because there will be

many people that don't believe him, they hurt his character.

He is discredited falsely. defaced.

I looked up the definition of deface and here is what I found - Deface - spoil the surface or appearance of (something), e.g.,
by drawing or writing on it; mar or disfigure.


"his visage (face) was so marred more than any man,"
Isaiah 52
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:



So could it not be that this person is not hurt physically but he is hurt in some other way. - Maybe his character, spiritually, emotionally mentally.

Maybe he will be the Davidic king, the prophet, the one that Gileadi mentions to come and personify Christ, He will come with Christ's words

( maybe the sealed portion ?)

and just as Christ's own people rejected him, so it is with this servant.

He might be a member but I believe that the Lord sends him not through the ranks in the church,

so his own people (the church and members don't believe him, (but some do) so he is marred

[abijah]

I AM is right in that "but I will heal him" is the key phrase of all these verses. The key to understanding the "marred" aspect, is understanding the relationship between Jesus Christ and this person. This will reveal explicitly, not only how this person is rejected, but by whom he is rejected, as well as their most-unfortunate fate, shown diametric to those who receive him, as most blessed of all peoples. This is why the last chapter in the Book of Mormon emphasises the "gifts of the Spirit". Such are the promised blessings of those with eyes to see in the time of reckoning.

[I AM]

I AM is right in that "but I will heal him" is the key phrase of all these verses. The key to understanding the "marred" aspect, is understanding the relationship between Jesus Christ and this person. This will reveal explicitly, not only how this person is rejected, but by whom he is rejected, as well as their most-unfortunate fate, shown diametric to those who receive him, as most blessed of all peoples. This is why the last chapter in the Book of Mormon emphasises the "gifts of the Spirit". Such are the promised blessings of those with eyes to see in the time of reckoning.

---------------------------------
I've posted this before

Quote
"The Mormons are prophesied to mar the Davidic Servant, in a parallel to the Jews' crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The triumphal regeneration or healing following that marring will be on a parallel with the resurrection. And as Jesus' mission was about individual salvation, the Davidic Servant's mission will be about societal salvation; and in conjunction with his healing will come a miraculous deliverance from the governmental beast which will have taken a stranglehold upon the entire earth at that point. A nation will be born in a day. The kingdom of God will be established on earth, no more to be thrown down. It will be Zion, a celestial people and city. It will start small, but will eventually (after the next 1000 years) fill the whole earth. Meanwhile, (as most citizens of the earth following the pending tribulations will be of a terrestrial order, none telestial having made it through the purgings of their own making) this Zion will be the capital of the world government that will reign in righteousness under Christ for 1000 years.

When the Mormons mar the Davidic Servant is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. They will have filled the measure of their iniquity, and the kingdom will be taken from them and given back to the house of Israel. Then is when the 144,000 go forth to bring in as many as will to the church of the firstborn, which is a celestial order. The world at large will still be very wicked during this time, for the final purgings of the whole earth have not yet happened. The Jews will not yet be converted. "
_______________________________________________________________________
quote

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
(3 Nephi 21:9-11.)

"Who is the marred servant? It is quite important that we know, because God said those who do not hearken unto him will be cut off from his people of the covenant. (3 Nephi 21:11)
Whoever he is, he must preach to a people who are already of the covenant, as you can't be cut off from something you don't already have.
Could it be Joseph Smith? While Joseph Smith was indeed marred by "them," he was not healed.
I suppose he could be resurrected and preach again to the church that rejected him. The other alternative is that God will raise up a servant to preach to the LDS church, and he will be rejected by them."

[abijah]

I AM is right in that "but I will heal him" is the key phrase of all these verses. The key to understanding the "marred" aspect, is understanding the relationship between Jesus Christ and this person. This will reveal explicitly, not only how this person is rejected, but by whom he is rejected, as well as their most-unfortunate fate, shown diametric to those who receive him, as most blessed of all peoples. This is why the last chapter in the Book of Mormon emphasises the "gifts of the Spirit". Such are the promised blessings of those with eyes to see in the time of reckoning.

---------------------------------
I've posted this before

Quote
"The Mormons are prophesied to mar the Davidic Servant, in a parallel to the Jews' crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The triumphal regeneration or healing following that marring will be on a parallel with the resurrection. And as Jesus' mission was about individual salvation, the Davidic Servant's mission will be about societal salvation; and in conjunction with his healing will come a miraculous deliverance from the governmental beast which will have taken a stranglehold upon the entire earth at that point. A nation will be born in a day. The kingdom of God will be established on earth, no more to be thrown down. It will be Zion, a celestial people and city. It will start small, but will eventually (after the next 1000 years) fill the whole earth. Meanwhile, (as most citizens of the earth following the pending tribulations will be of a terrestrial order, none telestial having made it through the purgings of their own making) this Zion will be the capital of the world government that will reign in righteousness under Christ for 1000 years.

When the Mormons mar the Davidic Servant is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. They will have filled the measure of their iniquity, and the kingdom will be taken from them and given back to the house of Israel. Then is when the 144,000 go forth to bring in as many as will to the church of the firstborn, which is a celestial order. The world at large will still be very wicked during this time, for the final purgings of the whole earth have not yet happened. The Jews will not yet be converted. "
_______________________________________________________________________
quote

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
(3 Nephi 21:9-11.)

"Who is the marred servant? It is quite important that we know, because God said those who do not hearken unto him will be cut off from his people of the covenant. (3 Nephi 21:11)
Whoever he is, he must preach to a people who are already of the covenant, as you can't be cut off from something you don't already have.
Could it be Joseph Smith? While Joseph Smith was indeed marred by "them," he was not healed.
I suppose he could be resurrected and preach again to the church that rejected him. The other alternative is that God will raise up a servant to preach to the LDS church, and he will be rejected by them."

Eloheim is the Dispenser/Provider of the Blessings of Exaltation & Salvation. Jesus Christ is His Mediator/Manifester, of these spiritual blessings.

John 6

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

However, Jesus Christ is the Dispenser/Provider of the Blessings of the Fulness of the Earth, with the Holy Ghost as His Mediator/Manifester, of these temporal blessings.

John 16

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Again, this is why they are called "gifts of the Spirit". The blessings of the Atonement are to Jesus, as the blessings of the "gifts of the Spirit" are to the Holy Ghost, as manifest in his last days' ministry. This is the power and might, upon which the political kingdom of God is built.

Zechariah 4

6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

I agree; the fulness of the Gentiles is the time they reject the God they pray for in just about every prayer, "bless us with the Spirit". And when they reject that Spirit, - Amen to them, and their time. For Paul so warned:

Romans 11

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

LDS members (speaking generally), in their own self-esteem, are haughty and ignorant. They don't respect or even acknowledge the blessings they have inherited from their Gentile forefathers, they lack even a basic vision of their priesthood privileges, and cannot comprehend how shallow their safety-net really is. If God so broke off His very own covenant people beforetime, how can this people possibly think that they, who have no honourable track record or special standing before God, are immune to the same?

[Durzan]

Oh, make no mistake, the Marred Servant is marred spiritually; and oh how grave those two wounds are. Twice was he put to the test in the premortal life and twice he put his life on the line to defend the Lord. Twice was he wounded during those tests: Once for a desperate self-sacrifice that shattered his soul, and once for a commitment to stand by the Lord's side and face down his former friend. But the Lord healed him and gave to him the name of Raphael (which as many of you know means "God has healed"), just one of many names the Lord has for him.

But, if you think that our Marred Servant will not be physically marred beyond all sight, I tell you this: Although he was spiritually marred first, and has been marred spiritually in this life as well, this doesn't preclude him from all physical harm. The Spiritual so often comes before the Physical in the Lord's eyes, and it is no different here. The Marred Servant may yet receive a physical marring. But... the Lord gave unto him the name of Raphael, and will heal him, as He healed him previously, and as He will yet continue to heal him. Save for that one marring, the Lord will see to it that the Marred Servant will not be harmed once his ministry has started.

And as for where he comes from, he WILL come from within the church.

[I AM]

Gileadi
"Paul identifies his own day (in the verses before) as the first phase of grafting.
But he also foresees the second.
He tells the Gentiles, "be not highminded , but fear: ...

Romans 11

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

[Durzan]

Gileadi
"Paul identifies his own day (in the verses before) as the first phase of grafting.
But he also foresees the second.
He tells the Gentiles, "be not highminded , but fear: ...

Romans 11

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

D&C 1:38 "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own cvoice or by the dvoice of my servants, it is the same."

Are we not all His servants? Might I gently remind you to take the words you say to heart as well? He will not excuse Himself, so neither will I.

[Alaris]

I AM is right in that "but I will heal him" is the key phrase of all these verses. The key to understanding the "marred" aspect, is understanding the relationship between Jesus Christ and this person. This will reveal explicitly, not only how this person is rejected, but by whom he is rejected, as well as their most-unfortunate fate, shown diametric to those who receive him, as most blessed of all peoples. This is why the last chapter in the Book of Mormon emphasises the "gifts of the Spirit". Such are the promised blessings of those with eyes to see in the time of reckoning.

Wow what a spiritual feast this thread has been tonight! I have also posted my opinion elsewhere the marring is spiritual... Perhaps it has something to do with how the Holy Ghost sanctifies which may be symbolized by the goat for Azazel which carries away the sins that were atoned for by the goat for Jehovah.

Another key to understanding the marring is bolded below:

3 Nephi 21:10

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

The language suggests the healing itself shows unto "them" that the wisdom of the Lord is greater than the devil. Though I'm certain the Lord could do that with a physical healing, I agree with the others here who believe it's not a physical marring. However, Visage certainly seems to indicate it is a physical marring. Yet, I still feel firmly it's more spiritual than physical.

I was just reading those gifts in Moroni today feeling they were placed there to underscore the marred servant who I feel Moroni is closely, if not directly, tied to.

[abijah]

What kind of world do we live in today? A world of instant information, and immediate, unbridled journalism. News today is rife with marred reputations. I pray the Lord do good justice on the filthy persons who slander the identity of another for profit.

I believe, that among physical and spiritual aspects, this “healing” will be a healing of reputation. It’s just like Messalla said in Ben-Hur, “How do you fight an idea? With another idea.”

So will God’s wisdom prove greater than the cunning of the devil. His presumption of the title of Lucifer is an outdated one, and henceforth classed as identity theft. Pretending to be “the One who stole the fire of the Gods, to give to man”, in tempting the true heirs to partake of the God’s fruit, his rivalry with the Holy Ghost sheds perfect light on the events in Eden. As he attempts to steal all true titles, Satan’s epithet of “Lucifer”, in reality, as a priesthood office, belongs to Adam & the Holy Ghost, who is after a temporal reckoning, the Alpha & Omega. The Holy Ghost, is the true Lightbringer, born again after the manner of John 3, in redemption of what was, and fulfillment of what is to be.

[Alaris]

What kind of world do we live in today? A world of instant information, and immediate, unbridled journalism. News today is rife with marred reputations. I pray the Lord do good justice on the filthy persons who slander the identity of another for profit.

I believe, that among physical and spiritual aspects, this “healing” will be a healing of reputation. It’s just like Messalla said in Ben-Hur, “How do you fight an idea? With another idea.”

So will God’s wisdom prove greater than the cunning of the devil. His presumption of the title of Lucifer is an outdated one, and henceforth classed as identity theft. Pretending to be “the One who stole the fire of the Gods, to give to man”, in tempting the true heirs to partake of the God’s fruit, his rivalry with the Holy Ghost sheds perfect light on the events in Eden. As he attempts to steal all true titles, Satan’s epithet of “Lucifer”, in reality, as a priesthood office, belongs to Adam & the Holy Ghost, who is after a temporal reckoning the Alpha & Omega. The Holy Ghost, is the true Lightbringer, born again after the manner of John 3, in redemption of what was, and fulfillment of what is to be.

Marred reputation could qualify the Visage aspect especially if meaning was lost in translation.

Lucifer may have been next in line to be the Holy Ghost and lost it due to pride. If this is true then the tests and trials of the Holy Ghost will likely center on overcoming pride.

Such as a marred reputation.

This would also explain why he is called lightbringer in the scriptures, isaiah of all places, and why he is called Azazel (mighty and strong) in 1Enoch if they are indeed the same person. He was these things until he lost them.

[Alaris]

Oh, make no mistake, the Marred Servant is marred spiritually; and oh how grave those two wounds are. Twice was he put to the test in the premortal life and twice he put his life on the line to defend the Lord. Twice was he wounded during those tests: Once for a desperate self-sacrifice that shattered his soul, and once for a commitment to stand by the Lord's side and face down his former friend. But the Lord healed him and gave to him the name of Raphael (which as many of you know means "God has healed"), just one of many names the Lord has for him.

But, if you think that our Marred Servant will not be physically marred beyond all sight, I tell you this: Although he was spiritually marred first, and has been marred spiritually in this life as well, this doesn't preclude him from all physical harm. The Spiritual so often comes before the Physical in the Lord's eyes, and it is no different here. The Marred Servant may yet receive a physical marring. But... the Lord gave unto him the name of Raphael, and will heal him, as He healed him previously, and as He will yet continue to heal him. Save for that one marring, the Lord will see to it that the Marred Servant will not be harmed once his ministry has started.

And as for where he comes from, he WILL come from within the church.

This post about floored me. First let me say that what you said about the servant being put to the test and being wounded matches very closely with a personal sacred experience. Perhaps we can discuss more by pm... Pearls and all.

Secondly...

I recently read the Ascension of Isaiah which Gileadi supposedly gives some clout to himself as legitimate apocrypha. The book is yet another confirmation of the seven levels of mankind. In the book, Isaiah ascends through the seven heavens.

As he ascends each successive heaven is more glorious than the former. Each heaven has a throne (seven archangels / patriarchs / dispensation heads for each throne.)

What's super interesting is the sixth Heaven, which iirc has a larger leap in glory, has no throne. Then when Isaiah ascends to the seventh Heaven he sees both the holy ghost and the lord Jesus Christ.

Early on in my experiences, studies and articles I had received the knowledge that the Davidic Servant is on the cusp of ascending to the level of archangel and receive his first throne. Everything I have learned and experienced since has reinforced this knowledge. The Davidic Servant is the head of this sixth class of being which aligns to enoch and his dispensation. (dispensations are inverted chronologically to align sequentially to the seven classes of mankind or the seven heavens.)

I had come to the conclusion long ago that Raphael was Enoch. And though I don't recall how I came to that conclusion other lds writers have as well such as John Pratt if you Google his name and the name of Raphael.

If you have been following my other threads and articles Durzan you'll have seen that I believe Revelation is about the Ascension of the Holy Ghost /Davidic Servant to receive the kingdom to which he was anointed to receive. "He that sitteth upon the throne" is a phrase that repeats throughout the book of revelation.

What if that throne that is missing in the sixth Heaven symbolizes he that sitteth upon the throne where the one whose throne it is happens to be Enoch... And Enoch gives his throne to the Holy Ghost.

The Davidic Servant gathers Israel and builds Zion... And then what happens?

Moses 7:62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.
63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;


The chiasmus of the first shall be last and the last first.

Adam
Enoch
Noah
Abraham
Moses
10 tribes lost
Time of the gentiles begins
Jews scattered
..
Jews gathered
Time if the gentiles ends
10 tribes returned
Moses keys of the gathering of Israel fulfillment
Abraham - Elias' keys of the dispensation of the gospel
of Abraham fulfilled when the dominion on the Davidic
Servant is complete and his identity revealed (Elias is
one of the identities)
Noah - wicked are destroyed
Enoch - Moses 7:63 fulfilled
Adam collects the keys

[abijah]

What kind of world do we live in today? A world of instant information, and immediate, unbridled journalism. News today is rife with marred reputations. I pray the Lord do good justice on the filthy persons who slander the identity of another for profit.

I believe, that among physical and spiritual aspects, this “healing” will be a healing of reputation. It’s just like Messalla said in Ben-Hur, “How do you fight an idea? With another idea.”

So will God’s wisdom prove greater than the cunning of the devil. His presumption of the title of Lucifer is an outdated one, and henceforth classed as identity theft. Pretending to be “the One who stole the fire of the Gods, to give to man”, in tempting the true heirs to partake of the God’s fruit, his rivalry with the Holy Ghost sheds perfect light on the events in Eden. As he attempts to steal all true titles, Satan’s epithet of “Lucifer”, in reality, as a priesthood office, belongs to Adam & the Holy Ghost, who is after a temporal reckoning the Alpha & Omega. The Holy Ghost, is the true Lightbringer, born again after the manner of John 3, in redemption of what was, and fulfillment of what is to be.

Marred reputation could qualify the Visage aspect especially if meaning was lost in translation.

Lucifer may have been next in line to be the Holy Ghost and lost it due to pride. If this is true then the tests and trials of the Holy Ghost will likely center on overcoming pride.

Such as a marred reputation.

This would also explain why he is called lightbringer in the scriptures, isaiah of all places, and why he is called Azazel (mighty and strong) in 1Enoch if they are indeed the same person. He was these things until he lost them.

Lucifer (Satan) is (was) known as being attractive; the Holy Ghost is also:

Psalm 45

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

The name “Lucifer” denotes shining, and brightness. What is, the Glory of Lucifer? But to be beautiful, spiritually, physically, and in every respect.

The trial of a marred visage, for the Holy Ghost or Lucifer alike would be a trial indeed, in every aspect of it. Given the playing out of things, Satan will capitalise on it to the very uttermost extent upon his enemy, projecting his own very ugliness in greatest measure possible onto the true dragon, for his children to revel in, and take up their father’s namesake of Accuser.

[Alaris]

Alpha and omega fits as well with the chiasm. The Angel of the Lord started, alpha, with Abraham and the Abrahamic covenant.

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Then he ends the time of Israel when he receives his kingdom ala Ezekiel 37.

[abijah]

I submit “Lucifer” works as good a name as any for the Third Mouth. He who receives on the one hand and judges of the other.

It only goes to show the extent Satan will go beforehand to tarnish the reputation of his true counterpart. The Third Reich was a great example (the Swastika and Iron Cross, etc. being most-holy symbols, now forever tainted with gross evil), in which twisted powers gained substantial political and military power by usurping true ordinances and tokens from the Endowment, but for the purpose of enslavement rather than making free.

And thus World War II stands as the foreboding type of Armageddon, save the hidden wonders of the works of YHWH in the endtime.

[Alaris]

This verse is interesting given what's being discussed here tonight.

D&C 128:21 And again, the voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer, in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope!

Those who do not believe the kings queens priests and priestesses to which we are anointed don't happen in worlds like this and subsequent mortalities may need to reread and rethink on that verse.

[abijah]

This verse is interesting given what's being discussed here tonight.

D&C 128:21 And again, the voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer, in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope!

Those who do not believe the kings queens priests and priestesses to which we are anointed don't happen in worlds like this and subsequent mortalities may need to reread and rethink on that verse.

I’m curious what you mean? I’ve had some recent impressions with these verses too but I can’t quite tell what you’re referring to!

[simpleton]

I think this Servant already came and we rejected Him and His mission and He did or is doing just like what Moses did, He (Moses) left the children of Israel for a long season until they were more willing to be delivered from bondage. ( Which I think that the time is getting close to where the "more righteous" will start to cry day and night until deliverance comes, through this Servant...) And yes I do whole heartily agree that His marring, and/or the marring of His mission is spiritual, or verbal if you will. It is most definitely, IMO, the church/LDS people, that mars and rejects this Servant. Just read and study about all the claimants of various probably hundreds of men that have brought forth revelations to the leaders of the church claiming to be the "One Mighty and Strong" ever since 1890 and still to this day there is no end to the claimants.
I think, in regards to this statement to Joseph when he was praying to know of the time of the "Coming of the Son of Man", the approximate date is 1890-1891-1892 ish. Why could it not be the time of the birth of this "Servant"?

"I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. (D&C 130:14-15)."

Jesus Christ is the "Son of God", this Servant is The "Son of Man"
Joseph had already seen Christ and the Father probably many times, why would Christ tell him " if he lived to be 85 he (Joseph) would see his face when Joseph had already seen His, (Christs) Face?
To tell you the truth, I think Joseph was not much informed in regards to this Servant. Nor any of the other leaders either. Hence the rejection of this Servant by the Church. Which I think was how it was preplanned from the beginning....

Isaiah 28, I think, directly applies to the church/saints, and probably some of it has transpired already. Like this below

11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
(Like above especially)

13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
( and also this)

We are today, in temporal and in spiritual bondage, and we are in need of a "Deliverer" but it seems that the majority think that things are great, that " Zion prospereth" and that " all is well in Zion".

D&C 103 :

15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, (Son of Man?)who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18 And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

And I am so in "ignorant bliss" as to literally believe that the above is going to happen exactly as it says. And it is this Servant/Son of Man that does this Great and Marvelous Work.

[Elguapo4538]

This is awesome discussion! It reminds me of banter back and forth between a friend and I about this leader. He is set on it being Elder Bednar and I'm set on it being someone else. Both of us claim personal revelation on our platforms and for a while I wondered how could this be. The peace I've found is that whomever this person is, I will follow. It is not as if he will be unrecognizable, he will have miracles follow him. Trust in the Hope of Israel, which is not us, it is the Light!

[Durzan]

What kind of world do we live in today? A world of instant information, and immediate, unbridled journalism. News today is rife with marred reputations. I pray the Lord do good justice on the filthy persons who slander the identity of another for profit.

I believe, that among physical and spiritual aspects, this “healing” will be a healing of reputation. It’s just like Messalla said in Ben-Hur, “How do you fight an idea? With another idea.”

So will God’s wisdom prove greater than the cunning of the devil. His presumption of the title of Lucifer is an outdated one, and henceforth classed as identity theft. Pretending to be “the One who stole the fire of the Gods, to give to man”, in tempting the true heirs to partake of the God’s fruit, his rivalry with the Holy Ghost sheds perfect light on the events in Eden. As he attempts to steal all true titles, Satan’s epithet of “Lucifer”, in reality, as a priesthood office, belongs to Adam & the Holy Ghost, who is after a temporal reckoning the Alpha & Omega. The Holy Ghost, is the true Lightbringer, born again after the manner of John 3, in redemption of what was, and fulfillment of what is to be.

Marred reputation could qualify the Visage aspect especially if meaning was lost in translation.

Lucifer may have been next in line to be the Holy Ghost and lost it due to pride. If this is true then the tests and trials of the Holy Ghost will likely center on overcoming pride.

Such as a marred reputation.

This would also explain why he is called lightbringer in the scriptures, isaiah of all places, and why he is called Azazel (mighty and strong) in 1Enoch if they are indeed the same person. He was these things until he lost them.

Lucifer (Satan) is (was) known as being attractive; the Holy Ghost is also:

Psalm 45

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

The name “Lucifer” denotes shining, and brightness. What is, the Glory of Lucifer? But to be beautiful, spiritually, physically, and in every respect.

The trial of a marred visage, for the Holy Ghost or Lucifer alike would be a trial indeed, in every aspect of it. Given the playing out of things, Satan will capitalise on it to the very uttermost extent upon his enemy, projecting his own very ugliness in greatest measure possible onto the true dragon, for his children to revel in, and take up their father’s namesake of Accuser.

In a figurative sense at least, the devil already has.

[Durzan]

Oh, make no mistake, the Marred Servant is marred spiritually; and oh how grave those two wounds are. Twice was he put to the test in the premortal life and twice he put his life on the line to defend the Lord. Twice was he wounded during those tests: Once for a desperate self-sacrifice that shattered his soul, and once for a commitment to stand by the Lord's side and face down his former friend. But the Lord healed him and gave to him the name of Raphael (which as many of you know means "God has healed"), just one of many names the Lord has for him.

But, if you think that our Marred Servant will not be physically marred beyond all sight, I tell you this: Although he was spiritually marred first, and has been marred spiritually in this life as well, this doesn't preclude him from all physical harm. The Spiritual so often comes before the Physical in the Lord's eyes, and it is no different here. The Marred Servant may yet receive a physical marring. But... the Lord gave unto him the name of Raphael, and will heal him, as He healed him previously, and as He will yet continue to heal him. Save for that one marring, the Lord will see to it that the Marred Servant will not be harmed once his ministry has started.

And as for where he comes from, he WILL come from within the church.

This post about floored me. First let me say that what you said about the servant being put to the test and being wounded matches very closely with a personal sacred experience. Perhaps we can discuss more by pm... Pearls and all.

Secondly...

I recently read the Ascension of Isaiah which Gileadi supposedly gives some clout to himself as legitimate apocrypha. The book is yet another confirmation of the seven levels of mankind. In the book, Isaiah ascends through the seven heavens.

As he ascends each successive heaven is more glorious than the former. Each heaven has a throne (seven archangels / patriarchs / dispensation heads for each throne.)

What's super interesting is the sixth Heaven, which iirc has a larger leap in glory, has no throne. Then when Isaiah ascends to the seventh Heaven he sees both the holy ghost and the lord Jesus Christ.

Early on in my experiences, studies and articles I had received the knowledge that the Davidic Servant is on the cusp of ascending to the level of archangel and receive his first throne. Everything I have learned and experienced since has reinforced this knowledge. The Davidic Servant is the head of this sixth class of being which aligns to enoch and his dispensation. (dispensations are inverted chronologically to align sequentially to the seven classes of mankind or the seven heavens.)

I had come to the conclusion long ago that Raphael was Enoch. And though I don't recall how I came to that conclusion other lds writers have as well such as John Pratt if you Google his name and the name of Raphael.

If you have been following my other threads and articles Durzan you'll have seen that I believe Revelation is about the Ascension of the Holy Ghost /Davidic Servant to receive the kingdom to which he was anointed to receive. "He that sitteth upon the throne" is a phrase that repeats throughout the book of revelation.

What if that throne that is missing in the sixth Heaven symbolizes he that sitteth upon the throne where the one whose throne it is happens to be Enoch... And Enoch gives his throne to the Holy Ghost.

The Davidic Servant gathers Israel and builds Zion... And then what happens?

Moses 7:62 And righteousness will I send down out of heaven; and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten; his resurrection from the dead; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; and righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, an Holy City, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming; for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem.
63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;


The chiasmus of the first shall be last and the last first.

Adam
Enoch
Noah
Abraham
Moses
10 tribes lost
Time of the gentiles begins
Jews scattered
..
Jews gathered
Time if the gentiles ends
10 tribes returned
Moses keys of the gathering of Israel fulfillment
Abraham - Elias' keys of the dispensation of the gospel
of Abraham fulfilled when the dominion on the Davidic
Servant is complete and his identity revealed (Elias is
one of the identities)
Noah - wicked are destroyed
Enoch - Moses 7:63 fulfilled
Adam collects the keys

Yeah, we can discuss the details of the situation via PM if you so desire. There is much I can say on the subject. I will say two things however: First, this is directly tied to a certain question I asked you (twice) a while back that you never replied to. Second, you already know what happened when the Marred Servant was marred the second time, for you saw it yourself and I told you of my experience of it. You have had two witnesses of the matter, but I know not if you've had a witness or a hinting at the story behind the first marring.

The story of the first marring needs the hearer to have both a strong testimony, a broken heart, a contrite spirit, and an open mind in order to learn and fully understand it, for it deals with things that would subtlety turn everything you thought you knew about the Gospel upside down and inside out.