The Location of The City of Enoch

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Alaris
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The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Alaris »

As a child, my mother taught me that Pangea leaves a giant hole at the Gulf of Mexico and that she believed this is where the City of Enoch lay. Enoch was present at Adam Ondi Ahman, which is in Missouri, when Adam blessed his posterity, so the original location for the City of Enoch being near the mainland USA makes sense.

In my latest blog article, I discuss further symbols of the levels of mankind and how this model helps us understand why the first three dispensations may have all taken place in this promised land while the next three took place in the promised land of Israel. I also explore why Joseph Smith's dispensation returned to this promised land.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... mbols.html

In discussing evidence of Enoch's dispensation being near the USA I decided to a Pangea of my own but using layers in Photoshop and rotating the continents to see how well I could get them to fit together. Here are the images I made.

Image

The first image above shows how clearly one can see how these three continents fit together.

Image

In this next image I aligned the north-western coast of Africa and the eastern coast of USA - though South America doesn't quite fit.

Image

In the third image above I aligned North America and and South America - now Africa doesn't fit as well with North America but both images show a large gap in the Gulf of Mexico; however some of this may be explained by the curvature of the earth whereas I am using flat images.

Also, I discuss how the dimensions of the borders of New Jerusalem discussed in Revelation 21 further prove there may have indeed been a city in the Gulf of Mexico that will return and meet New Jerusalem there:
Moses 7:63 And the Lord said unto Enoch: Then shalt thou and all thy city meet them there, and we will receive them into our bosom, and they shall see us; and we will fall upon their necks, and they shall fall upon our necks, and we will kiss each other;
Image
Revelation 21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
I found a couple of different measurements of "furlong," so I made two borders to reflect each. The measurements are close if not exact. If you look up other images you will see the borders also extend into the Gulf of Mexico.

Finally, the spirit whispered to me as I made the above image about the relation of Utah and Arizona to the borders of ZION. I overlaid the state boundaries and saw that they are nearly touching the borders of ZION.

Image

The adversary persecuted the Saints bitterly to get them outside the boundaries of ZION. Now we gather at its borders - we are at the cusp!

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by larsenb »

brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
Right, and the Sigsbee abyssal plain consists of actual oceanic crust created during seafloor spreading initiated in the late Jurassic (~160 my bp), which the influx of sediment during and well after that time did not cover.

I.e., not likely that the Gulf of Mexico was created by the removal of a relatively small city; and the time frame is way, way off.

I remember modelling the opening of the Atlantic and the movement of the adjacent continental masses to their present position due to sea floor spreading in this area in a geophysics course I took a number of years ago. There is both geophysical and straight geologic evidence that the continents did fit together similar to how brianj has them situated. However, estimates of the fIrst break up (rifting) was the North Atlantic in early to mid Jurassic; with South America and Africa separating in early Cretaceous (145 my bp).

All of this is associated w/breakup of Pangea, with the Gulf of Mexico created in this process.

I recall reading that Nibley believed the 'division' that happened during Peleg's lifetime was actually describing the division of mankind after the flood, due to terrible storms that drove the people apart, which also helped cause the division of languages. Not sure how he placed the actual change of languages described in the Book of Ether into this scenario.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
My crude method does not account for curvature either but you can see visually that these shapes roughly fit together like puzzle pieces. My points are these :

1. Any way I reasonably rotate the continents still leaves a gap at the gulf.
2. The borders of New Jerusalem extend into the gulf quite a ways.
3. Moses 7:63 says Enoch and his city will meet God's latter day saints at the new Jerusalem.

If the city fills up the gulf then it would certainly satisfy one two and three.

I seem to recall there being more evidence of this but I'll need to do some digging. Thank you for your comment.

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Alaris
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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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Image

Looks like someone took a rather large scoop.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by brianj »

alaris wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:18 pm
brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
My crude method does not account for curvature either but you can see visually that these shapes roughly fit together like puzzle pieces. My points are these :

1. Any way I reasonably rotate the continents still leaves a gap at the gulf.
2. The borders of New Jerusalem extend into the gulf quite a ways.
3. Moses 7:63 says Enoch and his city will meet God's latter day saints at the new Jerusalem.

If the city fills up the gulf then it would certainly satisfy one two and three.

I seem to recall there being more evidence of this but I'll need to do some digging. Thank you for your comment.
I wish I still had contact with this Institute teacher so I could contact him for a reference, but I clearly recall being taught that the city of Zion and city of Enoch would come together as one city. If there is a prophetic statement to this extent then we can rule out the Gulf.

Seek the Truth
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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Seek the Truth »

I don't believe in Pangea

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Talon65 »

Genesis 10:25
"And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan"
also, Joseph Smith himself taught that the City of Enoch was originally in what is now the Gulf of Mexico...

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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brianj wrote: August 29th, 2017, 10:19 pm
alaris wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:18 pm
brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
My crude method does not account for curvature either but you can see visually that these shapes roughly fit together like puzzle pieces. My points are these :

1. Any way I reasonably rotate the continents still leaves a gap at the gulf.
2. The borders of New Jerusalem extend into the gulf quite a ways.
3. Moses 7:63 says Enoch and his city will meet God's latter day saints at the new Jerusalem.

If the city fills up the gulf then it would certainly satisfy one two and three.

I seem to recall there being more evidence of this but I'll need to do some digging. Thank you for your comment.
I wish I still had contact with this Institute teacher so I could contact him for a reference, but I clearly recall being taught that the city of Zion and city of Enoch would come together as one city. If there is a prophetic statement to this extent then we can rule out the Gulf.
I realize that a problem with the gulf is that though it's within the borders of the City of Enoch it is barely within the borders at least relatively speaking. That said there is plenty of room for several cities to fall within the boundaries in the gulf area north of the wall. There could have been a larger land mass taken than the size of the city of Enoch itself. The city persisted for 365 years, so it could have grown quite large. Our own country is < 250 years old.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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Talon65 wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:03 pm Genesis 10:25
"And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan"
also, Joseph Smith himself taught that the City of Enoch was originally in what is now the Gulf of Mexico...
Thats a quote worth digging up!
Last edited by Alaris on September 2nd, 2017, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seek the Truth
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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Seek the Truth »

You have to be careful of Peleg/pangea, it's probably not true.

.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Seek the Truth »

alaris wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:28 pm
Talon65 wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:03 pm Genesis 10:25
"And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan"
also, Joseph Smith himself taught that the City of Enoch was originally in what is now the Gulf of Mexico...
Thats a quote with digging up!
http://emp.byui.edu/MARROTTR/Zion-Enoch ... %20Mex.htm

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Alaris »

Seek the Truth wrote: August 30th, 2017, 12:29 am
alaris wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:28 pm
Talon65 wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:03 pm Genesis 10:25
"And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan"
also, Joseph Smith himself taught that the City of Enoch was originally in what is now the Gulf of Mexico...
Thats a quote with digging up!
http://emp.byui.edu/MARROTTR/Zion-Enoch ... %20Mex.htm
Haha! Yes! Thank you "Seek the Truth" :D :ymhug:

Edit: Here it is pasted inline:
Wilford Woodruff's Journal,
30 March 1873.
(Altar of Adam at Adam-ondi-Ahman)
Again President Young said Joseph the Prophet told me that the garden of Eden was in Jackson Co., Missouri, & when Adam was driven out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman, & there built an Altar of Stone & offered Sacrifice. That Altar remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as did many others, & through all the revolutions of the world that Altar has not been disturbed. Joseph also said that when the City of Enoch fled & was translated it was whare the gulf of Mexico now is. It left that gulf a body of water.



Joseph Young, Enoch & His City (pamphlet), p. 12 (footnote).
Joseph Smith said on another occasion, in the hearing of some of the saints still surveying, that the City of Enoch would again take its place in the identical spot from which it had been detached, now forming that chasm of the earth, filled with water, called the Gulf of Mexico.
Last edited by Alaris on September 3rd, 2017, 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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Seek the Truth wrote: August 30th, 2017, 12:21 am You have to be careful of Peleg/pangea, it's probably not true.
It is true and official doctrine of the LDS church, The landmass become one again as it was originally created and each country back to it's original location.

D&C 133:21 And he shall utter his voice out of Zion, and he shall speak from Jerusalem, and his voice shall be heard among all people;
22 And it shall be a voice as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder, which shall break down the mountains, and the valleys shall not be found.
23 He shall command the great deep, and it shall be driven back into the north countries, and the islands shall become one land;
24 And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.

Earth, Dividing of
Let the waters … be gathered together unto one place, Gen. 1:9 (Moses 2:9).
in his days was the earth divided, Gen. 10:25 (1 Chr. 1:19).
waters had receded … it became a choice land, Ether 13:2.
earth shall be like as it was … before it was divided, D&C 133:24.
many lands; and each land was called earth, Moses 1:29.
See also Gen. 11:16; Isa. 40:15.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Spaced_Out »

The fact that the landmass was at one stage a single large continent is proven through geology, ecology etc.. It is just the timing of the split that is under question.

Image

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by BeNotDeceived »

alaris wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:22 pm Image

Looks like someone took a rather large scoop.
At a depth of more than 12,000 feet, Sigsbee Deep is the deepest part of the gulf. It is more than 300 miles long and is sometimes called the “Grand Canyon under the sea.” Its closest point to the Texas coast is 200 miles southeast of Brownsville. ... http://www.gulfmex.org/about-the-gulf/g ... ico-facts/

Plenty deep for OTEC ships to neutralize hurricanes. Some of the southern oil platforms could be reprovisioned. :ymparty:

An international guidance document on OTEC is making significant development progress. This document will benefit the whole OTEC community, providing guidance to designers and project developers, and reassuring investors, insurers and national authorities.

The guidance document -IEC TS 62600-20- will be a Technical Specification developed within the Technical Committee TC114 of the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC).

The document will cover land‐based, shelf‐mounted and floating OTEC plants which generate electrical power. It will be applicable to the OTEC structure, process flows and machinery, electrical equipment and controls to the point of interconnection to the primary load or electrical grid.

A first draft of the document has been circulated in January 2017, and commented by the different TC114 participating countries. A project team made of experts from UK, USA, Canada, France and the Netherlands met to work on the standard in March 2017, in parallel to the IEC TC114 Plenary meeting in Madrid. A new version of the document is targeted for the end of 2017. Further information on the standard can be found in the presentation given in Madrid: PT20 – OTEC Presentation Madrid 16th March 2017

This presentation stresses the importance of making use of existing oil and gas expertise as well as the possibility of reusing relatively modern drill ships, semi-submersibles or FPSOs as a base hull for a floating OTEC system. A number of such hulls are going to scrap at present due to the severe downturn in the offshore oil industry. Many of the systems on such vessels such as moorings, thrusters, accommodation, cranes, etc would also be needed on a floating OTEC plant. ... http://www.otecnews.org/2017/06/future- ... iec-tc114/

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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BeNotDeceived wrote: September 1st, 2017, 2:43 pm
alaris wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:22 pm Image

Looks like someone took a rather large scoop.
Yeah a rather strange shape to say the least. there is no defined fault lines or joint, structures etc.. that would usually form such a shape. A quick scan of geological history of the gulf states that it has unusual geological structures, and is supposed to have been formed by sea floor spreading. Yeah very difficult to explain how it was formed so the 'aliens/extra terrestrials' might of been responsible and with any luck will return.
It would not be politically correct to say that it was taken to an unknown heaven for a future date return.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Alaris »

Seek the Truth wrote: August 30th, 2017, 12:29 am
alaris wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:28 pm
Talon65 wrote: August 29th, 2017, 11:03 pm Genesis 10:25
"And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan"
also, Joseph Smith himself taught that the City of Enoch was originally in what is now the Gulf of Mexico...
Thats a quote with digging up!
http://emp.byui.edu/MARROTTR/Zion-Enoch ... %20Mex.htm
I updated the article with the Joseph Smith references. Thank you StT

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
Too bad this is just flawed theory. You make the mistake of assuming the earth is a least 250 million years old. There is no evedience to support this.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by GrandMasterB »

larsenb wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:10 pm
brianj wrote: August 28th, 2017, 9:27 pm You make a mistake by assuming the continents were shaped as they are now. Around a quarter billion years ago there was no Gulf of Mexico. When it began to form the (now) Yucatan peninsula became a big island with a relatively small moat. That moat grew and eventually the Yucatan moved to its present location.

Of course you need to go further back in history to find the continent of Pangaea, and the popular interpretation of Genesis 10:25 and Chronicles 1:19 is that all of this division happened during Peleg's life, but we really don't know. I would be very surprised to learn that the Gulf of Mexico is the location of this city becaue the Sigsbee abyssal plain averages over 5,000 feet deep with a maximum depth over 12,000 feet.
Right, and the Sigsbee abyssal plain consists of actual oceanic crust created during seafloor spreading initiated in the late Jurassic (~160 my bp), which the influx of sediment during and well after that time did not cover.

I.e., not likely that the Gulf of Mexico was created by the removal of a relatively small city; and the time frame is way, way off.

I remember modelling the opening of the Atlantic and the movement of the adjacent continental masses to their present position due to sea floor spreading in this area in a geophysics course I took a number of years ago. There is both geophysical and straight geologic evidence that the continents did fit together similar to how brianj has them situated. However, estimates of the fIrst break up (rifting) was the North Atlantic in early to mid Jurassic; with South America and Africa separating in early Cretaceous (145 my bp).

All of this is associated w/breakup of Pangea, with the Gulf of Mexico created in this process.

I recall reading that Nibley believed the 'division' that happened during Peleg's lifetime was actually describing the division of mankind after the flood, due to terrible storms that drove the people apart, which also helped cause the division of languages. Not sure how he placed the actual change of languages described in the Book of Ether into this scenario.
More Philosophies of men mingled with scriptures.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

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Spaced_Out wrote: August 30th, 2017, 3:51 am
Seek the Truth wrote: August 30th, 2017, 12:21 am You have to be careful of Peleg/pangea, it's probably not true.
It is true and official doctrine of the LDS church, The landmass become one again as it was originally created and each country back to it's original location.

D&C 133:21 And he shall utter his voice out of Zion, and he shall speak from Jerusalem, and his voice shall be heard among all people;
22 And it shall be a voice as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder, which shall break down the mountains, and the valleys shall not be found.
23 He shall command the great deep, and it shall be driven back into the north countries, and the islands shall become one land;
24 And the land of Jerusalem and the land of Zion shall be turned back into their own place, and the earth shall be like as it was in the days before it was divided.

Earth, Dividing of
Let the waters … be gathered together unto one place, Gen. 1:9 (Moses 2:9).
in his days was the earth divided, Gen. 10:25 (1 Chr. 1:19).
waters had receded … it became a choice land, Ether 13:2.
earth shall be like as it was … before it was divided, D&C 133:24.
many lands; and each land was called earth, Moses 1:29.
See also Gen. 11:16; Isa. 40:15.
Sounds like possibly the entire Atlantic Ocean sea floor is what rises and the water recedes. Connecting all lands. I have no proof but it sounds as good as anything else on this thread.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by Alaris »

Having a bad day GrandmasterB?

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GrandMasterB
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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by GrandMasterB »

Spaced_Out wrote: August 30th, 2017, 4:00 am The fact that the landmass was at one stage a single large continent is proven through geology, ecology etc.. It is just the timing of the split that is under question.

Image
This is not a fact it is a theory. Do you worship God or science? All this crap science is Darwinism. Al based on assumptions. More and more of these crap theories are gbeing rewritten every day. The Darwinists bury anything that can't be explained by their antichrist theories. They find iron hammers in solid rock. Lots of unexplained objects in million year old coal. Ignored! They ignore the evidence that darwins theories are wrong. I will believe Joseph Smith any day over antichrist Darwinists.

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GrandMasterB
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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by GrandMasterB »

alaris wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 10:10 pm Having a bad day GrandmasterB?
Pretty good day actually. Just tired of seeing all this antichrist nonsense from people who are supposed to know better. If Joseph said that the city of Enoch left the hole where the gulf was than that is what happened. I have more faith in that than I ever will in Darwinism. It is amazing to me that some people accept the theories of these scientist as fact yet most of these same scientist deny the existence of God. If this isn't the philosophies of men mingled with scripture than I don't know what is.

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Re: The Location of The City of Enoch

Post by GrandMasterB »

Spaced_Out wrote: September 2nd, 2017, 1:37 am
BeNotDeceived wrote: September 1st, 2017, 2:43 pm
alaris wrote: August 28th, 2017, 10:22 pm Image

Looks like someone took a rather large scoop.
Yeah a rather strange shape to say the least. there is no defined fault lines or joint, structures etc.. that would usually form such a shape. A quick scan of geological history of the gulf states that it has unusual geological structures, and is supposed to have been formed by sea floor spreading. Yeah very difficult to explain how it was formed so the 'aliens/extra terrestrials' might of been responsible and with any luck will return.
It would not be politically correct to say that it was taken to an unknown heaven for a future date return.
FYI geological history only goes back as far as we have written records. Only God has a written history of this world and so far that complete history is probably contained in the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. Unfortunately, we don't have access to that yet. Until we do all we have are rocks and fossils and a bunch of "scientist" taking their best guess as to how they all got there.

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