Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

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Robin Hood
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by Robin Hood »

butterfly wrote: June 13th, 2017, 9:30 pm
Robin Hood wrote: June 7th, 2017, 8:00 am These people have the bodies/minds they have in order to protect them from Lucifer and his cohorts.
They are innocent and cannot sin. Because of this, Lucifer doesn't waste his time on them.
I know you're talking about people with disabilities being protected from spiritual death by not being tempted, but I just wanted to point out that they do not have easy lives and Satan and his cohorts definitely bring about suffering for them.

I have a relative who has down syndrome and as soon as she was old enough the doctor had the parents put her on birth control. The reason was because he said it is so common for people who have disabilities to be raped. They are a prime target due to how easily they can be manipulated; ending up pregnant would just compound the situation.
This is true. My daughter is autistic and extremely vulnerable. Having said that, she has never deliberately sinned in her life. She couldn't tell a lie if her life depended on it!
But the devil works on tempting others to hurt these people, not on the people themselves.
In other words, they can be the victims of the sinful behaviour of others, but not of themselves.

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AI2.0
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by AI2.0 »

Z2100 wrote: June 6th, 2017, 12:16 pm Recently, I have had the wonderful privilege to attend the every-two-years "pilgrimage" with the youth of my Ward to the Arizona Training Center in Coolidge (AZ). This training center houses people with various mental disabilities and deficiencies. I have pondered about why they were born with such terrible ailments. As we were going to pick-up a sweet man named "Walking Man", an employee there told us about how he had heard, about 15 years ago,a 16 year old with down syndrome who received a patriarchal blessing (the employee read the blessing, too). The man who gave the boy a blessing told him that he was a great spirit in the pre-existence who helped fight Satan and ultimately cast him down from heaven and he was to be "molested no more by Satan" in his Earth-life. Everyone in our group were astonished. So the main questions are:

1. Why did they get the bodies that they have?
2. Are they really protected from Satan?
3. Did they do something great in the Pre-Existence?
4. Are the most of these "special spirits" born at the end of the 6th seal (now)?

I heard on another thread that we must've sinned or have done something in the past that made us have the life we had. I can't remember the thread name. Anyways, share your thoughts on what you've learned from past experiences...

Related Articles:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/hom ... n-6432533
https://www.lds.org/topics/disability/s ... &old=true
https://askgramps.org/would-mentally-ha ... irits-who/
http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/mormon-handicaps/



-Z2100

The story about the patriarchal blessing may be true, but is it a good idea to generalize one person's individual blessing to all other disabled persons' blessings? Seems like a bad idea to assume that all disabled people ushered Satan out of heaven, etc.(I'm sure many of us would like to think we helped cast Satan out of heaven). We are all born with strengths and weaknesses, and various physical problems, and we've been given these for different reasons. I hope no one on this forum would think that being born with a disability meant they 'sinned' or did something in the past...I'd hope that those who have the gospel would understand that trials and problems are for our growth and development and not a punishment. Heavenly father loves us, he didn't send us here as some kind of punishment.

"1. Why did they get the bodies that they have?"
You'd have to ask Heavenly Father that, he's the one that is in charge of these decisions, but as I have a clear understanding of the plan of Salvation through the gospel of Jesus Christ, I know that he loves us and wants us to return to him, with the knowledge, experiences and spiritual/physical development necessary for us to continue on to become like him. I know it's not a punishment. Jesus was asked that same question and he said that in that particular man's situation, it was to show the power of God--because HE was going to heal the man and it would be recorded in the New Testament for all to read of and have faith.

"2. Are they really protected from Satan?"
Those who don't have the ability to understand sufficiently are not held accountable--but anyone who's had much interaction with children knows they can do bad things and so can mentally disabled people. But, they are held to a different standard by God and saved through Christ's atonement. So, Satan's 'power' is limited.

"3. Did they do something great in the Pre-Existence?"
As I said, reading one person's patriarchal blessing and trying to generalize it to all others' blessings would not be wise, they are for the one individual they were given to. I believe there are many different possibilities for why a person is born with a disability, let alone other limitations.

"4. Are the most of these "special spirits" born at the end of the 6th seal (now)?"
No, there have always been people born with mental disabilities, though many today survive and thrive because of medical advancements, modern society etc. But, they have their missions to fulfill and a sphere of influence just like the rest of us. They are here to be tested also, but like little children, their level of enlightenment may be limited and they won't be judged on the scale that a person with full intellectual capacity would be judged by God.

Gage
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by Gage »

People that are born with disabilities are no special than any other. This false premise must derive from "special needs". They are different only in that they have a more debilitating disability than a "normal person". People are born with disabilities because of man, whether its things the mother did or has done, or the father, something genetic in the family, etc. Its because of man. We are all aware of the risks of coming to earth before we receive a body. The spirit is not in any way "deformed" or any different it only becomes different when it receives a body. A body that is "formed and created" from its parents, with all their genetic imperfections, drug use, etc. Everyone wants to blame God for everything, we have been blaming God since Adam when he blamed him for sending him Eve, the one that made him eat the fruit.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by Robin Hood »

Gage wrote: June 14th, 2017, 1:27 pm People that are born with disabilities are no special than any other. This false premise must derive from "special needs". They are different only in that they have a more debilitating disability than a "normal person". People are born with disabilities because of man, whether its things the mother did or has done, or the father, something genetic in the family, etc. Its because of man. We are all aware of the risks of coming to earth before we receive a body. The spirit is not in any way "deformed" or any different it only becomes different when it receives a body. A body that is "formed and created" from its parents, with all their genetic imperfections, drug use, etc. Everyone wants to blame God for everything, we have been blaming God since Adam when he blamed him for sending him Eve, the one that made him eat the fruit.
Sorry Gage, but I know for a fact you are wrong.

Z2100
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by Z2100 »

AI2.0 wrote: June 14th, 2017, 9:18 am
Z2100 wrote: June 6th, 2017, 12:16 pm Recently, I have had the wonderful privilege to attend the every-two-years "pilgrimage" with the youth of my Ward to the Arizona Training Center in Coolidge (AZ). This training center houses people with various mental disabilities and deficiencies. I have pondered about why they were born with such terrible ailments. As we were going to pick-up a sweet man named "Walking Man", an employee there told us about how he had heard, about 15 years ago,a 16 year old with down syndrome who received a patriarchal blessing (the employee read the blessing, too). The man who gave the boy a blessing told him that he was a great spirit in the pre-existence who helped fight Satan and ultimately cast him down from heaven and he was to be "molested no more by Satan" in his Earth-life. Everyone in our group were astonished. So the main questions are:

1. Why did they get the bodies that they have?
2. Are they really protected from Satan?
3. Did they do something great in the Pre-Existence?
4. Are the most of these "special spirits" born at the end of the 6th seal (now)?

I heard on another thread that we must've sinned or have done something in the past that made us have the life we had. I can't remember the thread name. Anyways, share your thoughts on what you've learned from past experiences...

Related Articles:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/hom ... n-6432533
https://www.lds.org/topics/disability/s ... &old=true
https://askgramps.org/would-mentally-ha ... irits-who/
http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/mormon-handicaps/



-Z2100

The story about the patriarchal blessing may be true, but is it a good idea to generalize one person's individual blessing to all other disabled persons' blessings? Seems like a bad idea to assume that all disabled people ushered Satan out of heaven, etc.(I'm sure many of us would like to think we helped cast Satan out of heaven). We are all born with strengths and weaknesses, and various physical problems, and we've been given these for different reasons. I hope no one on this forum would think that being born with a disability meant they 'sinned' or did something in the past...I'd hope that those who have the gospel would understand that trials and problems are for our growth and development and not a punishment. Heavenly father loves us, he didn't send us here as some kind of punishment.

"1. Why did they get the bodies that they have?"
You'd have to ask Heavenly Father that, he's the one that is in charge of these decisions, but as I have a clear understanding of the plan of Salvation through the gospel of Jesus Christ, I know that he loves us and wants us to return to him, with the knowledge, experiences and spiritual/physical development necessary for us to continue on to become like him. I know it's not a punishment. Jesus was asked that same question and he said that in that particular man's situation, it was to show the power of God--because HE was going to heal the man and it would be recorded in the New Testament for all to read of and have faith.

"2. Are they really protected from Satan?"
Those who don't have the ability to understand sufficiently are not held accountable--but anyone who's had much interaction with children knows they can do bad things and so can mentally disabled people. But, they are held to a different standard by God and saved through Christ's atonement. So, Satan's 'power' is limited.

"3. Did they do something great in the Pre-Existence?"
As I said, reading one person's patriarchal blessing and trying to generalize it to all others' blessings would not be wise, they are for the one individual they were given to. I believe there are many different possibilities for why a person is born with a disability, let alone other limitations.

"4. Are the most of these "special spirits" born at the end of the 6th seal (now)?"
No, there have always been people born with mental disabilities, though many today survive and thrive because of medical advancements, modern society etc. But, they have their missions to fulfill and a sphere of influence just like the rest of us. They are here to be tested also, but like little children, their level of enlightenment may be limited and they won't be judged on the scale that a person with full intellectual capacity would be judged by God.

Thank you for answering my questions with thought and sincerity. I will takes these things into consideration. :)

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Thinker
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by Thinker »

I do believe people with mental conditions like Down’s syndrome are spiritually special but not necessarily because of something they did in the past - but rather because of what they’re doing now! I have seen it over & over how these people have inspired enormous good! That’s not to say they’re complete angels - they are human and sometimes misbehave as we all do. But they have a way of melting the hardest hearts, of bringing laughter, love and joy when others were unable to. Moments like that, I see them as spiritual giants!

“And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” - John 9

I believe and observe that many who are born with disabilities serve multiple purposes, one being to show the GOoD in others - to give others an opportunity to love and serve.

MMbelieve
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by MMbelieve »

butterfly wrote: June 13th, 2017, 9:30 pm
Robin Hood wrote: June 7th, 2017, 8:00 am These people have the bodies/minds they have in order to protect them from Lucifer and his cohorts.
They are innocent and cannot sin. Because of this, Lucifer doesn't waste his time on them.
I know you're talking about people with disabilities being protected from spiritual death by not being tempted, but I just wanted to point out that they do not have easy lives and Satan and his cohorts definitely bring about suffering for them.

I have a relative who has down syndrome and as soon as she was old enough the doctor had the parents put her on birth control. The reason was because he said it is so common for people who have disabilities to be raped. They are a prime target due to how easily they can be manipulated; ending up pregnant would just compound the situation.
:(
Hurting and taking advantage of the "little ones" I know what you have brought up is true and it's terrible.

LightisTruth111
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Re: Questions about HF's "Special Spirits"

Post by LightisTruth111 »

EmmaLee wrote: June 6th, 2017, 7:38 pm
Z2100 wrote: June 6th, 2017, 12:16 pmThe man who gave the boy a blessing told him that he was a great spirit in the pre-existence who helped fight Satan and ultimately cast him down from heaven and he was to be "molested no more by Satan" in his Earth-life. Everyone in our group were astonished.
If I had a dime for every time I've heard that exact same story over the last 5 decades, I would be fairly wealthy. I agree with LDS Physician and mcusick - seems a bizarre thing for God to do with his "most special spirits" (I thought he was not a respecter of persons? aren't we all equally "special" to our Father? Gosh, I don't consider one of my children more "special" than the others). Things like this are mostly (if not entirely) in the category of 'faith promoting rumors'. As to why people are born with disabilities (and we ALL have them, some more severe than others), the scripture inho posted gives the answer. Best viewed as a teaching tool and an exercise in faith - for the person with the disability, and those around them. My .02.
If you go and grab clay and mould a figure out of it, is that clay then your child? If mankind are children of God why then are they not Good, God is perfect Good, Christ is. Perhaps he has only One Begotten Son and rest are organised intelligence's, both from Light and Darkness and have to go through adoption, and through Christ become begotten Sons and Daughters when reborn through him. If mankind was truly children of God would they even need saved, does God just cast his children to risk of eternal damnation or are his children the Light beings who incarnated at times as prophets and positions to influence the children of the earth towards the light. Perhaps it was left to let people believe they are children of God, to give them hope and put their faith in his true Son. It is best people have humility and strive to become adopted sons and daughters of Christ unto his Father, therefore God.

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The LDS is indeed of God, but must be-careful of pride, it was pride that lead to people misunderstanding what was being said. The worlds that Christ will make in the restoration those who are born into them will become his children. Those children of earth now who have not covenanted with God who are not yet baptised and accepting of the Son, are not yet children of God and can still become children of Devil and some have. Now I have revealed this thing that people may become more humble and strive to be worthy to be adopted, not saying they are something before it time.

gardener4life
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by gardener4life »

Just a thought; faith, sacrifice, adversity and enduring to the end...all of this points to helping us learn how to take care of a bigger family and accept more people into our families in the future...many of which we won't see or know in this life.

LightisTruth111
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Posts: 99

Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by LightisTruth111 »

gardener4life wrote: December 11th, 2017, 6:05 am Just a thought; faith, sacrifice, adversity and enduring to the end...all of this points to helping us learn how to take care of a bigger family and accept more people into our families in the future...many of which we won't see or know in this life.
You will see the great tribulation unfold in your generation, if you have lived by the covenant and are counted as righteous ye will escape what is to come and be taken to safety soon. Things are at the doors and on pause, a extended time given but the hour comes no more time will be given.

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shestalou
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by shestalou »

Wow no need to be jealous over the innocent. Im sure God has a place for everyone once you leave the telestial emotions behind.

BackBlast
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Re: Questions about Heavenly Father’s "Special Spirits"

Post by BackBlast »

My best ideas...
Z2100 wrote: June 6th, 2017, 12:16 pm 1. Why did they get the bodies that they have?
Agency in all things. I believe that we generally accepted our role and/or assignment here. This includes death in infancy or a life without accountability, to a parent, to each prophet. There is some wisdom in God in this and we probably had a pretty good view of why and had desires behind our choices.
2. Are they really protected from Satan?
Those who truly never reach a state of responsibility, are protected from his temptations, yes. I believe there are some varying degrees in some cases of limited ability to know good and evil as well.
3. Did they do something great in the Pre-Existence?
I believe so. You may note that some people here take issue with the "free ride" back to the celestial kingdom. I believe both this sentiment and the one which makes them nobles souls of high station are correct, and I will lay out my reasoning here.

Those who never reach accountability are bound for the celestial kingdom as indicated in the scriptures. However, I believe they are bound for the lowest degree inside of the celestial kingdom. Upon earning the right, they were given the option to accept the reward already earned - or strive for a yet greater station via trials and tests on earth but with the possibility of losing it as well if poor choices are made.

Those who are stalwart and faithful while in the presence of the Father can earn a place in His kingdom, but to be like He is requires more, to prove oneself while not in his presence. I believe the highest degree of the highest kingdom can only be accomplished in the furnace of affliction while walking by faith here on earth.
4. Are the most of these "special spirits" born at the end of the 6th seal (now)?
I do not believe there is anything particularly special about this point in time in this regard. We had a lot higher infant mortality in the past. Some of that is now substituted with people who are never accountable though they live a life span to adulthood.

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