"Visions of Glory" a false book

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DRC53
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by DRC53 »

thisisspartaaa wrote:
DRC53 wrote:
DesertWonderer wrote:^^^Hearsay statements have no value. Sorry. I do agree with you when you say being a bishop doesn't constitute an endorsement.
I didn't present my comments in any other light. I've been up front from the beginning of this thread. You, on the other hand, said that Spencer talked about shape shifting into a girl in the book in an effort to discredit him. You're either reckless in what you say or deceitful, so apparently your comments have no value either. ;)

That said, I don't mind you having a difference of opinion about the book. I recognize that the book has drawn a lot of praise and criticism. I have not commented much on this forum because I find the forum to be overly and unnecessarily contentious. It really seems like many of you just enjoy arguing.

I commented here because you were completely wrong about the shape shifting to a girl assertion. I made the comments about Spencer being a bishop because you, I believe, said that Spencer was on par with JR and the others. There's obviously a difference with him. It might not mean anything to you and that's fine. I've made my point and so it's time to move on. Best to you!
So it's time to move on after you make a point? Seems very one sided for someone who accuses the board of being contentious.

If you're not willing to listen to others comments perhaps you shouldn't comment yourself? Otherwise you're being manipulative.
We need to stop the merry go round ... truce?

diligently seeking
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by diligently seeking »

https://youtu.be/jzotFAOCZ7M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact remains that the truths of Christ are so much more broad and expansive than we even understand. Yet they are so simple. So simple as to be revealed to us as we understand and receive his love and live in that space... if you are a Mormon who intellectually understands the beautiful proposition, that is one's membership, and have more or less lived on the edges of receiving the mighty change of heart-- you can expect there to be a disputing spirit to your ways. Let me try to explain:

If you value and appreciate God's love and the sanctity that comes through Christ and have received a mighty change of heart-- visions of Glory-- will speak beautifully to your heart. So many disclaimers from Spencer and John in the book. It doesn't have to occur as Spencer saw it. fact remains though-- the last day tribulations will occur. If you allow yourself to have eyes that see and ears that hear and a heart that feels and understands-- well then-- the incredible message in this book of letting light Rule and govern us-- the Light of Christ his goodness and power--such beautiful knowledge and blessings along with knowledge etc from the scriptures and the words of our leaders will put you and yours in the position to be where he is once the dust settles after the tribulations. (To grow in love is to be that much closer to being a one in mind and heart "Zion dwelling person") whether they , the foretold tribulations, occur next year or 40 plus years from now--- they will occur. What's the quote about how as members receiving new truth often is like a Hemlock knot corn wedge Dodger something another?

Christ is workING a work in preparation for his second coming. . Will we allow ourselives do more than just intellectually know this. (Joel chapter 2: 27-29 disciples of Christ are in many many places).

Will we have more than just a testimony like Peter before he was converted? Will we have to go through perilous dark terrifying times and have a disputing hearts because we rested the scriptures and would not know truth? ( see example in 3rd Nephi where they disputed over what they should name the church-- and then draw parallels..)

We have the word of God before us. in Alma 12 we were taught how to receive the mysteries of God and how it's connected to our heart--the condition of our heart. Do we see with our eyes do we hear with our ears do we understand with our hearts? To understand with your heart is to actually receive the Holy Ghost and be converted / receive this Mighty change of heart. Please reference the scripture in Matthew where Christ tells his apostles why he spoke in Parables and mentioned that they are blessed to see with their eyes and hear with their ears but he left out that they hadn't yet understood with their hearts. The apostles themselves had not yet been changed/ converted. The contrast of their behaviour before and after they receive the Holy Ghost is Stark and profound... When we receive the Holy Ghost and allow God to change our heart to be new creatures in Christ and have his love dwell within us, receiving truth and having the mysteries of God revealed and having them understood becomes natural-- more natural. The link above is from a follower of Christ. don't be so quick to put Christ in a box. Be brave and watch all of the link. Learn about this amazing man in Christ--Todd White-- and see how Christ is working through him (also) in preparation for his second coming. Don't put Christ in a box. Read King Benjamin's advice again on why we should not trifle with things that are of Christ-- that we should have ears that hear and eyes that see and a heart that understands and a mind that is open so that the mysteries of God might be revealed unto us... see what difference and be reminded I should say what difference it made for these people--good faithful people with a tent pitched toward the temple--good obedient members but not Saints yet, type people. what was the result of this eventual Mighty change of heart for them? When our heart remains in a natural man condition the hemlock knot analogy given to us by the Prophet Joseph Smith is that person's reality when it comes to receiving increased light and knowledge / truth. Let's not live in that space.

I continue my thoughts on this subject here. viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44699" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you want to know my further expressions??

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bbsion
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

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I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.

Todd
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Todd »

bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.
It would be interesting if "spencer" would release a non-pontiusized version of his visions, but I doubt it will ever happen since he's taken so much flak already. If I was him I'd just keep being semi-anonomous -- it strengthens his message.

DesertWonderer
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by DesertWonderer »

Todd wrote:
bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.
It would be interesting if "spencer" would release a non-pontiusized version of his visions, but I doubt it will ever happen since he's taken so much flak already. If I was him I'd just keep being semi-anonomous -- it strengthens his message.
Come on, Spencer approved every word in that book. Go back and read the into where Pontius describes the process for writing it. If Spencer had been at odds with how it turned out I'm sure there would've been a lawsuit. More support for Spencer being totally OK wiht the book was he attended and lectured at Pontius' group meetings about his experience / the book.

On the other hand you do make a good point b/c clearly Pontius had significant input in the book. Pontius wrote a book about living in the millennium which was published 2 yrs before VoG. The funny thing is the millennium material in VoG is basically a copy of that previous book. Go figure.

Todd
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Todd »

DesertWonderer wrote:
Todd wrote:
bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.
It would be interesting if "spencer" would release a non-pontiusized version of his visions, but I doubt it will ever happen since he's taken so much flak already. If I was him I'd just keep being semi-anonomous -- it strengthens his message.
Come on, Spencer approved every word in that book. Go back and read the into where Pontius describes the process for writing it. If Spencer had been at odds with how it turned out I'm sure there would've been a lawsuit. More support for Spencer being totally OK wiht the book was he attended and lectured at Pontius' group meetings about his experience / the book.

On the other hand you do make a good point b/c clearly Pontius had significant input in the book. Pontius wrote a book about living in the millennium which was published 2 yrs before VoG. The funny thing is the millennium material in VoG is basically a copy of that previous book. Go figure.
Very true. Regardless, I doubt "Spencer" will emerge again. Probably for the best too.

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bbsion
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

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DesertWonderer wrote:
Todd wrote:
bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.
It would be interesting if "spencer" would release a non-pontiusized version of his visions, but I doubt it will ever happen since he's taken so much flak already. If I was him I'd just keep being semi-anonomous -- it strengthens his message.
Come on, Spencer approved every word in that book. Go back and read the into where Pontius describes the process for writing it. If Spencer had been at odds with how it turned out I'm sure there would've been a lawsuit. More support for Spencer being totally OK wiht the book was he attended and lectured at Pontius' group meetings about his experience / the book.

On the other hand you do make a good point b/c clearly Pontius had significant input in the book. Pontius wrote a book about living in the millennium which was published 2 yrs before VoG. The funny thing is the millennium material in VoG is basically a copy of that previous book. Go figure.
Well, honestly I am not 100% sure as I heard that from a "source" who said they talked to Spencer. True, it's a source I trust, but it's still technically rumor. I only used that information as possible validation for why I believed Spencer had the experience but some of the information in the book did not quite sit well.

Just based on what I've read, I do not think Spencer is the type of person who would have filed a lawsuit because the guy who put the book together embellished. Perhaps Spencer lectured at those group meetings to set people straight a little more? I would not know, I was not there.

I have not read any of Johns other books but I would not put it past him if some of his material from other books leaked into this one.

But for me... bottom line is the message was good. It was interesting. It got me thinking. It also got me questioning. All of these were good so long as I do not take the book to be scripture.

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AI2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by AI2.0 »

DesertWonderer wrote:
Todd wrote:
bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.
It would be interesting if "spencer" would release a non-pontiusized version of his visions, but I doubt it will ever happen since he's taken so much flak already. If I was him I'd just keep being semi-anonomous -- it strengthens his message.
Come on, Spencer approved every word in that book. Go back and read the into where Pontius describes the process for writing it. If Spencer had been at odds with how it turned out I'm sure there would've been a lawsuit. More support for Spencer being totally OK wiht the book was he attended and lectured at Pontius' group meetings about his experience / the book.

On the other hand you do make a good point b/c clearly Pontius had significant input in the book. Pontius wrote a book about living in the millennium which was published 2 yrs before VoG. The funny thing is the millennium material in VoG is basically a copy of that previous book. Go figure.
I think you are stridently pushing it just a bit, considering you haven't spoken to spencer about this or have you? While he probably approved the book, I expect there are some things he could have felt iffy on but let go. And no, there wouldn't automatically be a lawsuit. Not everyone chooses the legal route. John Pontius is a strong individual, I can tell that from reading other writings of his. I think he could have put a lot of his own 'spin' in the book and spencer acquiesed to his authority as a writer.

I don't know why some people have such a strong negative opinion of 'Spencer' when he's been very low profile regarding the book and his avoidance of attention and publicity.

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AI2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by AI2.0 »

bbsion wrote:I think this was a good book. When I read the book a few years ago there were many times I raised my eyebrows and questioned it. But there were other times I felt the spirit. After reading through the entire book with an open mind, I decided that just because I do not understand something, it does not automatically make it wrong. However, with this book, I felt that Spencer really had the experience. Even if some of his experiences do not apply to me.

Later I was told by a source I will not name that Spencer was not fully satisfied with the version of the book that was published. Apparently, most of the experiences actually happened but John embellished quite a bit before publishing. Since John is no longer with us, we cannot confront him personally. After learning this, I decided that was probably why I felt the spirit in some parts of the book, while other parts raised questions.

The book as a whole has a good message. It's definitely interesting and worth a read. Personally, if you have not read through the entire book then your opinion is slightly tainted, and I choose to take what you say with a very tiny grain of salt. If you've read through the entire book and still hate it then that is on you. Oh well. I enjoyed it. I do not view the book as doctrine though.

Thanks for sharing, this makes sense to me, and I agree. the message of the book is a good one. I think both John Pontius and 'spencer' had the best of intentions when they published it. I think spencer's decision to remain anonymous hurt the book's credibility (IMO), but was probably best if he didn't want to become a controversial person and have people complaining any time he was given a new calling, etc.

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KurtTheMormon
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by KurtTheMormon »

Zion2080 wrote:Have you read it before? The first time I read through it I knew it was completely false. I prayed about too and I did not receive conformation that it was true. John Pontius and his friend Spencer are clearly delusional. The end was like "Seriously? You saw all of it. I don't believe it one bit." Any thoughts you would like to share on this book?
I can't agree.

I believe much of what he saw was true. At the same time, I think the bulk of it was for HIS life, was likely symbolic, and not for ours.

However, that being said, I myself have seen vision after vision after vision that matches almost exactly the same kinds of things he saw concerning catastrophe, crisis, and war spreading across America and the world.

Zion2080
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Zion2080 »

Since everyone seems to like it, I'll go and pray more...

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mirkwood
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

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Zion2080 wrote:Since everyone seems to like it, I'll go and pray more...
Not everyone. Filled with false doctrine and bad LDS sci fi.

Onsdag
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Onsdag »

I haven't read it. Well, actually, I started reading it but didn't get very far. I'm not sure if I even got past the introduction. He kept saying his experience was meant only for himself and I kept thinking to myself "then why did you write the book and have it published?" :-?

It seemed there were a couple other things he talked about that confused/bothered me in the introduction and first few pages, but not having the book I can't remember them.

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bbsion
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

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Onsdag wrote:I haven't read it. Well, actually, I started reading it but didn't get very far. I'm not sure if I even got past the introduction. He kept saying his experience was meant only for himself and I kept thinking to myself "then why did you write the book and have it published?" :-?

It seemed there were a couple other things he talked about that confused/bothered me in the introduction and first few pages, but not having the book I can't remember them.
Luckily, you do not have to read this book as a right of passage into the Celestial Kingdom. On the other hand, if you read this book and like it, that does not mean you are a blind fool who is now banned from Celestial glory.

If you ever get past the first 3 pages though (and I recommend you try), and you remember it's not scripture, then I believe you can really enjoy it.

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AI2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

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I'm not sure why I didn't have as negative a view of this book, it may be because I really just skimmed the last part and I felt that he was sharing his own story and so it was going to mean the most to him. I felt it was more speculative and if it really happened the way he said, then it was not to be taken literally. While I've always found it a fun idea that lost tribes might live in a hollow up in the Arctic, I never considered it a reality, maybe he was familiar with the hollow earth idea and this was how in his mind, the lost tribes were represented. Maybe that's how all the things are represented--within a paradigm he's familiar with and would make sense to him. I think a lot of his experience would have been to see a future that HE could imagine and that doesn't mean it's true.

As for reading the book, I did get some insights and ideas for myself--from some of the things that he said he experienced. Maybe that's the real value of these visions and prophecies--I've read many of them and gotten something valuable from most. I didn't have a problem with a lot of Julie Rowe's book either--but it was what she did AFTER she wrote the book. As more info. came out and as she went on the lecture/interview circuit, I felt she had misrepresented herself and her experience. I don't feel that way about Spencer because I don't have any information to make me believe he is not sincere in telling his story or that he had an agenda in telling it. He has not taken his NDE and marketed it for his own benefit, that I know of.

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gruden2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by gruden2.0 »

Visions and Glory shares underlying problems that many NDE/spiritual encounters books have, which are twofold:

1. They are usually written years after the fact
2. They are edited and/or written by someone else

In the case of this book, John Pontius wrote it, and he flat-out said in the recorded interview that there were things Spencer said that he either didn't include or toned down because it was too horrible or he thought people couldn't handle it. What that clearly says is that he edited/interpreted what Spencer told him, which is an inherent distortion in Spencer's account. We will never know just how much he altered Spencer's account, and I find that very damaging.

Secondly, the book was written some time after Spencer had his supposed vision, I don't recall if there was some intimation on how much time had passed. Spiritual experiences, even powerful ones like visions and NDEs, can become distorted and faded in our minds with time. In my own experience I have occasionally reflected on some powerful spiritual dreams I had in the past, then later read my journal entries written immediately after having them only to discover that my faulty memory had either distorted or completely omitted some significant details that completely changed the meaning. These things are so subtle and gradual it's easy for this to happen - we're human after all. That's why it's important to record these things immediately while it's fresh!

Julie Rowe is something else entirely. I remember when she first appeared on this board a few years back, I read her book and challenged her on some things. Whew, I received the full ire of the true believers, one of whom kept after me about it. My wife was in contact with someone who was in her original Facebook group and reported some of the really strange stuff she was saying. I suspect the problem may come down to the fact that people have "itchy ears" because they aren't having spiritual experiences themselves and quickly latch on to someone putting stuff out there to fill the void.

That isn't to say there aren't true things to be found out there, we should have an open mind, but we should be quick to apply Moroni's directive on how to discern true things, because there's a lot of disinformation going on and we are ALL subject to it, especially if we accepted it when we were young from someone we trusted or were found in an especially vulnerable moment.

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gruden2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by gruden2.0 »

The 'Sci-Fi' comments reminded me of an NDE book I read some years back by an LDS woman, which was also about the tribulations she claimed she saw leading up to Zion. As I read it, it was really interesting because a certain truth about the tribulations became evident, but then it ended with the stragglers being rescued by the Lost 10 Tribes who showed up with anti-gravity tanks shooting lasers! After that I noted there was a short disclaimer in the beginning of the book that stated that the retelling of her experience might have some dramatic elements added for effect, essentially.

I no longer read NDE books. Anyone can say they had one as a pretext to write a book and say whatever they want. I know there are people out there who have had real and very powerful NDEs, but the water has become so muddied by opportunists it's not worth it to try and sort this stuff out.

Todd
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Todd »

gruden2.0 wrote:The 'Sci-Fi' comments reminded me of an NDE book I read some years back by an LDS woman, which was also about the tribulations she claimed she saw leading up to Zion. As I read it, it was really interesting because a certain truth about the tribulations became evident, but then it ended with the stragglers being rescued by the Lost 10 Tribes who showed up with anti-gravity tanks shooting lasers! After that I noted there was a short disclaimer in the beginning of the book that stated that the retelling of her experience might have some dramatic elements added for effect, essentially.

I no longer read NDE books. Anyone can say they had one as a pretext to write a book and say whatever they want. I know there are people out there who have had real and very powerful NDEs, but the water has become so muddied by opportunists it's not worth it to try and sort this stuff out.
That was: Suzsanne Freeman. Through the Window of Life.

Yeah, the floating laser tanks coming in to save the day was definitely a "dramatic element."

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AI2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by AI2.0 »

Zion2080 wrote: January 9th, 2017, 2:16 pm Have you read it before? The first time I read through it I knew it was completely false. I prayed about too and I did not receive conformation that it was true. John Pontius and his friend Spencer are clearly delusional. The end was like "Seriously? You saw all of it. I don't believe it one bit." Any thoughts you would like to share on this book?
Since first reading your thread, I have had the great opportunity to read John Pointius' last book, which is a compilation of his writings. It is called 'Journey to the Veil'.

I've also read praise for his other book, "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence', which I'm going to read next.

John Pontius died a few years ago, but he worked on Visions of Glory while he was terminally ill. Whatever you think of the book, there is no doubt John was committed to the belief that God had a work for him to do and it was putting 'Spencer's' story into a book.

I read visions of glory and at no time did I think that the writers were delusional or deceptive, but there may have been 'literary license'--not to be deceptive, but to tell a story. I think their intentions were honest. It's not a 'false' book, because never did either of them insist that this WAS the way the 'end' was going to be. I felt there was much in the book that was to be understood symbolically--the same as many of the visions in the Bible.

In reading 'Journey to the Veil', I can say that John Pontius was a righeous and deeply spiritual man. There was a lot I learned from reading his book. I just wanted to share this because I hope that negative views of Visions of Glory won't keep some of you from reading his other books.

There are some precious spiritual truths there.

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Robin Hood
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Robin Hood »

AI2.0 wrote: March 1st, 2017, 9:59 am
Zion2080 wrote: January 9th, 2017, 2:16 pm Have you read it before? The first time I read through it I knew it was completely false. I prayed about too and I did not receive conformation that it was true. John Pontius and his friend Spencer are clearly delusional. The end was like "Seriously? You saw all of it. I don't believe it one bit." Any thoughts you would like to share on this book?
Since first reading your thread, I have had the great opportunity to read John Pointius' last book, which is a compilation of his writings. It is called 'Journey to the Veil'.

I've also read praise for his other book, "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence', which I'm going to read next.

John Pontius died a few years ago, but he worked on Visions of Glory while he was terminally ill. Whatever you think of the book, there is no doubt John was committed to the belief that God had a work for him to do and it was putting 'Spencer's' story into a book.

I read visions of glory and at no time did I think that the writers were delusional or deceptive, but there may have been 'literary license'--not to be deceptive, but to tell a story. I think their intentions were honest. It's not a 'false' book, because never did either of them insist that this WAS the way the 'end' was going to be. I felt there was much in the book that was to be understood symbolically--the same as many of the visions in the Bible.

In reading 'Journey to the Veil', I can say that John Pontius was a righeous and deeply spiritual man. There was a lot I learned from reading his book. I just wanted to share this because I hope that negative views of Visions of Glory won't keep some of you from reading his other books.

There are some precious spiritual truths there.

In the absence of a "thank button", thank you.

brianj
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by brianj »

AI2.0 wrote: March 1st, 2017, 9:59 am
Zion2080 wrote: January 9th, 2017, 2:16 pm Have you read it before? The first time I read through it I knew it was completely false. I prayed about too and I did not receive conformation that it was true. John Pontius and his friend Spencer are clearly delusional. The end was like "Seriously? You saw all of it. I don't believe it one bit." Any thoughts you would like to share on this book?
Since first reading your thread, I have had the great opportunity to read John Pointius' last book, which is a compilation of his writings. It is called 'Journey to the Veil'.

I've also read praise for his other book, "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence', which I'm going to read next.

John Pontius died a few years ago, but he worked on Visions of Glory while he was terminally ill. Whatever you think of the book, there is no doubt John was committed to the belief that God had a work for him to do and it was putting 'Spencer's' story into a book.

I read visions of glory and at no time did I think that the writers were delusional or deceptive, but there may have been 'literary license'--not to be deceptive, but to tell a story. I think their intentions were honest. It's not a 'false' book, because never did either of them insist that this WAS the way the 'end' was going to be. I felt there was much in the book that was to be understood symbolically--the same as many of the visions in the Bible.

In reading 'Journey to the Veil', I can say that John Pontius was a righeous and deeply spiritual man. There was a lot I learned from reading his book. I just wanted to share this because I hope that negative views of Visions of Glory won't keep some of you from reading his other books.

There are some precious spiritual truths there.
I second the thank you. I saw the book Journey to the Veil and thought about ordering it. After seeing your comments I will have to spend $3 on the Kindle edition.

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AI2.0
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Posts: 3917

Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by AI2.0 »

I wanted to give Robinhood and Brianj 'thanks' for 'thanking' me...but, there's no 'thank' button.

Thank you :)

Brianj, it's well worth the 3$. The book I have was loaned to me, but I'm planning to buy a copy for my own library, I also read some excerpts to my family during family home evening and they really enjoyed it--he tells some very interesting and uplifting stories. I hope you enjoy it as well.

Spider
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by Spider »

AI2.0 wrote: March 1st, 2017, 9:59 am
Zion2080 wrote: January 9th, 2017, 2:16 pm Have you read it before? The first time I read through it I knew it was completely false. I prayed about too and I did not receive conformation that it was true. John Pontius and his friend Spencer are clearly delusional. The end was like "Seriously? You saw all of it. I don't believe it one bit." Any thoughts you would like to share on this book?
Since first reading your thread, I have had the great opportunity to read John Pointius' last book, which is a compilation of his writings. It is called 'Journey to the Veil'.

I've also read praise for his other book, "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence', which I'm going to read next.

John Pontius died a few years ago, but he worked on Visions of Glory while he was terminally ill. Whatever you think of the book, there is no doubt John was committed to the belief that God had a work for him to do and it was putting 'Spencer's' story into a book.

I read visions of glory and at no time did I think that the writers were delusional or deceptive, but there may have been 'literary license'--not to be deceptive, but to tell a story. I think their intentions were honest. It's not a 'false' book, because never did either of them insist that this WAS the way the 'end' was going to be. I felt there was much in the book that was to be understood symbolically--the same as many of the visions in the Bible.

In reading 'Journey to the Veil', I can say that John Pontius was a righeous and deeply spiritual man. There was a lot I learned from reading his book. I just wanted to share this because I hope that negative views of Visions of Glory won't keep some of you from reading his other books.

There are some precious spiritual truths there.
Thank you and I agree with you.

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AI2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by AI2.0 »

Thanks Spider. :)

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gruden2.0
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Re: "Visions of Glory" a false book

Post by gruden2.0 »

AI2.0 wrote: March 1st, 2017, 9:59 am Since first reading your thread, I have had the great opportunity to read John Pointius' last book, which is a compilation of his writings. It is called 'Journey to the Veil'.

I've also read praise for his other book, "Following the Light of Christ into His Presence', which I'm going to read next.

John Pontius died a few years ago, but he worked on Visions of Glory while he was terminally ill. Whatever you think of the book, there is no doubt John was committed to the belief that God had a work for him to do and it was putting 'Spencer's' story into a book.

I read visions of glory and at no time did I think that the writers were delusional or deceptive, but there may have been 'literary license'--not to be deceptive, but to tell a story. I think their intentions were honest. It's not a 'false' book, because never did either of them insist that this WAS the way the 'end' was going to be. I felt there was much in the book that was to be understood symbolically--the same as many of the visions in the Bible.

In reading 'Journey to the Veil', I can say that John Pontius was a righeous and deeply spiritual man. There was a lot I learned from reading his book. I just wanted to share this because I hope that negative views of Visions of Glory won't keep some of you from reading his other books.

There are some precious spiritual truths there.
I think Pontius both helps and hurts this book. He helps in that I agree with you regarding his sincerity and spirituality. I enjoyed reading his blog posts from time to time while he was alive. At the same time, simply having someone else write it changes it, as I posted above. Pontius himself said he changed some things. I do not dismiss the book, but at the same time the involvement of a third party introduces problems trying to sift and understand Spencer's experiences. Ultimately we need to rely on revelations we can get for ourselves.

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