Who would accept an invitation to gather, (callout) from the Prophet? Poll Version

[skmo]

If you fall into the category of being unprepared when you knew better, And expect me to feed you and not provide for my children because you were slothful in obeying a commandment. That is selfish.

This attitude lacks an understanding of what the gospel is all about.

I don't see it that way. The parable of the virgins is not about people who haven't had sex. It may not be about food store per se either, but it is about being prepared. If a man of modest means lives wisely and is both serious and responsible of his primary role of provider, he should expect to use his stores to provide for those he has most direct stewardship over - his family. I don't believe the commandment to love your neighbor expects a father or mother to rob food from their own children to provide for someone who needed a new Lexus more than a grinder and a bucket of wheat. True, we are all children of God, but He has already told us our first responsibility it to our families.

Why wouldn't he be interested in saving those who are foolish enough to live beyond their means?

As you said, He can make manna in the wilderness. However, I recall it came based on the righteousness of the people. For those foolish virgins, when they've humbled themselves God can and will bless them. I don't believe it will be by taking bread from people who were righteous and prepared as they were told to begin with.

[will]

I agree. That is how I feel. Nothing more nothing less.

[Older/wiser?]

It's interesting and we all do it, we quote the parable of the 10 virgins seeing others as the
5 foolish, I guess it would take on a new meaning if Joseph Smith, Hyrum, and 3 others
Including Brigham were 5,and I and 4 of my prepared friends were the other 5 virgins..
Who would then be considered foolish...so it might be we compare our strengths to others
Weaknesses, and think our strengths (preparing ) makes us in the clear..just saying compared
To Joseph all my preparing isn't enough..

[brianj]

In my ward there are a great many members who have been caught up in this Unicity health craze, some have even spent thousands on investment and yet have no food storage, I know that when it comes time to hand over everything to the church to feed the ignorant, lazy members who have no problem leeching off everyone else, I will not hesitate to express my thoughts to them, there are many on this forum who are a lot better than me, I obviously need to work on being more charitable, but speaking of the 10 virgins parable Mathew 25 verse 9 is looking like it might be the perfect answer i might give to any person who foolishly spent their money on these get rich quick schemes rather than investing in food storage.

When we gather and society collapses, I visualize three categories of people. The first category is those who are prepared with food storage - apparently like you and me. We won't need help from one another until all our food is running out, at which time I hope for either manna or that the barrel of meal will not waste and the cruse of oil will not fail (1 Kings 17:16).
The second category is refugees - some of whom will be LDS who didn't accept the invitation to gather but mostly good non-LDS people who are guided to us. I will not have any problem sharing with these people and will feel gratitude that I can help instead of being helped.
The third category is people who gather, or want to gather, who didn't bother with food storage. I just might have a harder time assisting these people than you! Many of the people in my ward are spending money doing the things I really want to do in life that I have never had the opportunity to do. I will want to ask why they blew money enjoying the finer things in life, not doing anything to help me (other than fast offerings) but now they think I have an obligation to help them.

[Rose Garden]

If you fall into the category of being unprepared when you knew better, And expect me to feed you and not provide for my children because you were slothful in obeying a commandment. That is selfish.

This attitude lacks an understanding of what the gospel is all about.

I don't see it that way. The parable of the virgins is not about people who haven't had sex. It may not be about food store per se either, but it is about being prepared. If a man of modest means lives wisely and is both serious and responsible of his primary role of provider, he should expect to use his stores to provide for those he has most direct stewardship over - his family. I don't believe the commandment to love your neighbor expects a father or mother to rob food from their own children to provide for someone who needed a new Lexus more than a grinder and a bucket of wheat. True, we are all children of God, but He has already told us our first responsibility it to our families.

Why wouldn't he be interested in saving those who are foolish enough to live beyond their means?

As you said, He can make manna in the wilderness. However, I recall it came based on the righteousness of the people. For those foolish virgins, when they've humbled themselves God can and will bless them. I don't believe it will be by taking bread from people who were righteous and prepared as they were told to begin with.

OK, well, I've explained my position thoroughly, I believe, so it won't help for me to reiterate it. Tell me, where do you find these ideas of yours in the scriptures? Where do you see it laid out in plain language, not parable?

[vertigo]

For those foolish virgins, when they've humbled themselves God can and will bless them. I don't believe it will be by taking bread from people who were righteous and prepared as they were told to begin with.

No, nothing will be taken from the righteous, because the righteous will freely give. That is why the widow's barrel of meal did not waste and her oil did not fail. She gave to Elijah even before her own son because she had faith in what Elijah said to her, and the Lord blessed and compensated her for it. No one will be compelled to give if they don't want to, just as no one is forced to pay tithes and offerings now ( And yet that example proves the blessings we will receive if we do)

I do sense from others here that they are worried that those who were foolish in preparing will not have to suffer the consequences. I don't think that should be a concern when you think about what they will have to experience. They may receive 3 meals a day and shelter, But your family will have a choice in what they eat, and you are able to make them more comfortable. They have to wait each day to borrow tools to chop wood and build a fire for their families, You will be able to build a stockpile. They have to wait for help and supplies to build a shelter, you will have settled your family and moved on to bigger construction and building for the community. Your kids will have winter boots and clothing, while theirs will be wearing non insulated trendy boots and jackets they brought with them. Your family will be sleeping on cots or mattresses, while they will have sleeping bags on the ground. You might have enough supplies and materials for your entire family, while they have to share each item. Their kids will look at them and ask why didn't you provide these things for us? You will most likely be asked to supervise and lead, while they will be tasked with much smaller responsibilities...

There will be big differences in those who have prepared and those who didn't, but opportunities for spiritual growth on both sides. You and your families will be blessed with comfort and security for your obedience. Those who weren't will have to rely on the help of others to survive. Big difference!

[skmo]

OK, well, I've explained my position thoroughly, I believe, so it won't help for me to reiterate it.

Correct. We don't have to agree, and you've given a good explanation of your plans and beliefs. Just because they differ somewhat from mine (though not very far, in the overall scheme of decisions) it doesn't mean that either of us are correct or incorrect. One of the things we benefit from here is to learn the views of others and compare them to our own to see how we measure up. I have learned things I hope have made me a better person here, I have also learned some things I think are five feet beyond bunk. You and I are generally much closer on many things than we are distant, but it would be crazy to think any two people share all beliefs in common.

Tell me, where do you find these ideas of yours in the scriptures? Where do you see it laid out in plain language, not parable?

Well, that's a good question. I'll admit, it's made me think about my position some. I don't know that we've been commanded per se to prepare food storage, but we've been told often enough that it's come across as one. On the other hand, we have been clearly commanded to do all we can to show love for our neighbors, and I like to think I do pretty good at this. (And of course I'm lying to myself through my teeth because I have such a low opinion of my fellow humans that I generally rate my dogs higher than most of humanity.) When it comes to judging and despising people I see as idiots, I find I'm much better at that than being Christlike, but in my defense, I've been hurt by a lot of them for so many years that I no longer care about most - In the last few years I have gotten to the point that I'm apologizing to God for hating so many of His children and admitting I'm going to need His help to start caring for a lot of them.

Where I'm taking my commandment from here is the Proclamation on the Family. The church has always been clear on the need to place the welfare of our families first in our pantheon of responsibilities, and the Proclamation reinforces the idea that parents have a specific responsibility to look after and provide for their children. That is a responsibility I've taken to heart myself, and while I know I'm not a parent to any of them, I am quite protective of my students because I do feel I've been given a stewardship over them to some degree. When it comes to providing, I've mostly taught in places where incomes are low to very low/non-existent. I've always kept food in my office/classroom and when kids are hungry, I feed them.

[thisisspartaaa]

OK, well, I've explained my position thoroughly, I believe, so it won't help for me to reiterate it.

Correct. We don't have to agree, and you've given a good explanation of your plans and beliefs. Just because they differ somewhat from mine (though not very far, in the overall scheme of decisions) it doesn't mean that either of us are correct or incorrect. One of the things we benefit from here is to learn the views of others and compare them to our own to see how we measure up. I have learned things I hope have made me a better person here, I have also learned some things I think are five feet beyond bunk. You and I are generally much closer on many things than we are distant, but it would be crazy to think any two people share all beliefs in common.

Tell me, where do you find these ideas of yours in the scriptures? Where do you see it laid out in plain language, not parable?

Well, that's a good question. I'll admit, it's made me think about my position some. I don't know that we've been commanded per se to prepare food storage, but we've been told often enough that it's come across as one. On the other hand, we have been clearly commanded to do all we can to show love for our neighbors, and I like to think I do pretty good at this. (And of course I'm lying to myself through my teeth because I have such a low opinion of my fellow humans that I generally rate my dogs higher than most of humanity.) When it comes to judging and despising people I see as idiots, I find I'm much better at that than being Christlike, but in my defense, I've been hurt by a lot of them for so many years that I no longer care about most - In the last few years I have gotten to the point that I'm apologizing to God for hating so many of His children and admitting I'm going to need His help to start caring for a lot of them.

Where I'm taking my commandment from here is the Proclamation on the Family. The church has always been clear on the need to place the welfare of our families first in our pantheon of responsibilities, and the Proclamation reinforces the idea that parents have a specific responsibility to look after and provide for their children. That is a responsibility I've taken to heart myself, and while I know I'm not a parent to any of them, I am quite protective of my students because I do feel I've been given a stewardship over them to some degree. When it comes to providing, I've mostly taught in places where incomes are low to very low/non-existent. I've always kept food in my office/classroom and when kids are hungry, I feed them.

Figured I'd post regarding food storage. Here is the link:

https://www.lds.org/topics/food-storage?lang=eng

And some quotes:

"We encourage members worldwide to prepare for adversity in life by having a basic supply of food and water and some money in savings. We ask that you be wise, and do not go to extremes. With careful planning, you can, over time, establish a home storage supply and a financial reserve." (See All Is Safely Gathered In.)

That is the council. How people go from this to tent city armageddon is beyond me.

[Rose Garden]

OK, well, I've explained my position thoroughly, I believe, so it won't help for me to reiterate it.

Correct. We don't have to agree, and you've given a good explanation of your plans and beliefs. Just because they differ somewhat from mine (though not very far, in the overall scheme of decisions) it doesn't mean that either of us are correct or incorrect. One of the things we benefit from here is to learn the views of others and compare them to our own to see how we measure up. I have learned things I hope have made me a better person here, I have also learned some things I think are five feet beyond bunk. You and I are generally much closer on many things than we are distant, but it would be crazy to think any two people share all beliefs in common.

Tell me, where do you find these ideas of yours in the scriptures? Where do you see it laid out in plain language, not parable?

Well, that's a good question. I'll admit, it's made me think about my position some. I don't know that we've been commanded per se to prepare food storage, but we've been told often enough that it's come across as one. On the other hand, we have been clearly commanded to do all we can to show love for our neighbors, and I like to think I do pretty good at this. (And of course I'm lying to myself through my teeth because I have such a low opinion of my fellow humans that I generally rate my dogs higher than most of humanity.) When it comes to judging and despising people I see as idiots, I find I'm much better at that than being Christlike, but in my defense, I've been hurt by a lot of them for so many years that I no longer care about most - In the last few years I have gotten to the point that I'm apologizing to God for hating so many of His children and admitting I'm going to need His help to start caring for a lot of them.

Where I'm taking my commandment from here is the Proclamation on the Family. The church has always been clear on the need to place the welfare of our families first in our pantheon of responsibilities, and the Proclamation reinforces the idea that parents have a specific responsibility to look after and provide for their children. That is a responsibility I've taken to heart myself, and while I know I'm not a parent to any of them, I am quite protective of my students because I do feel I've been given a stewardship over them to some degree. When it comes to providing, I've mostly taught in places where incomes are low to very low/non-existent. I've always kept food in my office/classroom and when kids are hungry, I feed them.

Thanks for your honest reply.

I think the scriptures demonstrate that while there are some principles that are eternal, there are also commandments given for specific periods of time. I think food storage and preparation can be seen that way. You don't find it in the scriptures as an eternal principle, but you can find incidences here and there.

On the other hand, there are quite a number of scriptures that warn us about withholding from and judging the poor. Specifically, we are warned not to say that the beggar had brought it on themselves. The fact that others didn't prepare food storage and we did doesn't negate those commandments.

Looking back on your previous comments, I have to say I do agree more with you than I first thought. I also wouldn't expect parents to give food to others that they needed for their own family. I see no sin in that so long as the parents aren't gloating over their superior preparation. However, there is a higher form of worship, a form which is necessary to obtain Zion, and that is loving others so much that you would prefer to die instead of another. It's having compassion on others no matter what their failings. While food storage might save you temporally, it has no power to change your heart to that degree.

[Silver Pie]

Bump (for the poll)