Obama Last sitting president

[Older/wiser?]

I recall a conference talk were we were told " to stay in the boat" so..our boat maybe
Just a little bit different...no sailing just staying in the boat...

[Jason]

House of Bush controls the CIA...which has been their baby since it was created. Clinton's worked for Bush family. Obama does as well although his family (Obama, his mother and mother's father) started much lower on the totem pole.

Clinton's are white trash and the CIA always had their hands full dealing with all of their idiosyncrasies and associated collateral damage. I suspect they are pretty much done.

I agree with you but on the basis that they want another Bush in the white house.

Jeb will NEVER even get the nomination let a lone the general election. Under what possible senario could "they" give Jeb, who currently has 3% of the R votes supporting him, the White House?

Who's counting the votes?

True dat brother.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/it ... nds-in-u-s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We'll only have to wait until July--then we will see the validity of the above, vaguely referenced, conspiracy theories. I could be wrong. Who knows?

Doesn't take much in the way of due diligence to verify and validate what was stated with regard to conspiracy...fact...but you certainly can believe fiction. And the V&V work is just that...work that requires some effort and study. And I'll also note that its not the most positive stuff to study and can be quite depressing...so I understand if one isn't up to the task. But by the same token don't discount what you haven't researched.

FYI...its a very small conspiratorial world...for example just do a little digging on Chicago Mafia and Moe Annenburg....and who pops up? Jack Rubenstein (a.k.a. Jack Ruby)....who also worked for Richard Nixon.

A great deal of congressional testimony on Prescott Bush, Allen & John Foster Dulles, testimony of Major General Smedley Butler on the "Business Plot",investigation into Bush financial ties with Nazi finance, etc.

Then you have Bush investments in Cuba that were nationalized by Castro...and the subsequent set up for the "Bay of Pigs" otherwise known as Operation Zapata which was launched from islands controlled by Zapata Oil Company run by George HW Bush (and CIA coherts) which is subsequently became Harbinger Group and then HRG Inc.

CIA took out JFK. Pretty well documented across a dozen or so independent investigative efforts.

Bush would later officially head the CIA.

They goofed on Reagan. But Bush ran the Whitehouse from that point on as noted by all of the information that became public as a result of the congressional investigation into the Iran/Contra affair.

Then you have the Clinton money laundering fiasco coming out of Mena, Arkansas regarding CIA drug running activities to finance their black ops...and whatever the rest of their mission is. This is pretty well documented across a dozen or so documentaries and a number of independent investigative efforts.

That's not even diving into 9/11.

Obama's CIA ties are more subject to opinion. That said I believe there is sufficient evidence to suspect there's more there than meets the eye. For example by his own account he visited Pakistan when no US citizens were allowed in the country. His mother worked for CIA front company working around the world...and then disappeared. This is the girl who met Obama's father while taking Russian classes in Hawaii...and later married Barry Soetoro who was instrumental and spending couple years in Indonesia during CIA coupe.

Here's a few places to get started -

My history project (includes much of the early Bush history which gives you many of the key names for google searches) -
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9376&p=239583+#p239554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Data from national archive -
http://www.watch.pair.com/bush-nazi-link-3.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Whitehouse Coup
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/doc ... 0723.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BBC: Bush's Grandfather Planned Fascist Coup In America
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ju ... stcoup.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FTR #602 The Plot to Seize the White House: Interview with Jules Archer
http://ftrsummary.blogspot.com/2007/07/ ... house.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Plot to Sieze the White House by Jules Archer
http://www.eclectica.org/v1n1/reviews/wharton_plot.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

THE PLOT TO SEIZE THE WHITE HOUSE [actual book]
http://www.wanttoknow.info/plottoseizethewhitehouse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRG_Group" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://books.google.com/books?id=5_BCd ... &q&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bay of Pigs
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB29/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JFK assasination (best works) -
Kill Zone by Lt. Col. Craig Roberts
http://www.amazon.com/Kill-Zone-Sniper- ... 1494985667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JFK: The Dead Witnesses by Lt. Col. Craig Roberts
http://www.amazon.com/JFK-Dead-Witnesse ... 1494976145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy
http://www.amazon.com/Crossfire-Plot-Th ... 0465031803" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...more from Craig Roberts -

The Medusa File
http://www.amazon.com/The-Medusa-File-C ... 453619860/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.riflewarrior.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 24685.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obama related to many U.S. Presidents, including Bush
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-r ... uding-bush" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

History of Obama Family CIA Connections
https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfOb ... onnections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wayne Madsen, The Story of Obama: All in the Company (PDF)
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/truth/2011 ... y-pdf.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Barack Obama, Former CIA Agent
http://www.spingola.com/BarackObamaCIA.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Major reading list here -
http://yophat.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Research the Safari Club, the BCCI debacle, George H.W. Bush, Iran/Contra affair, CIA, mujahideen (or better yet Al Qaeda - "the database" - of muhahideen who contract out for the MIC - like Halliburton subsidiary KBR - for operations around the world like Bosnia, Kosovo, and of late - Libya), Pakastan ISI, etc.....and how they all relate to each other!

If you want to go even deeper check out the Carlyle Group and the business arrangements between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family. You might also examine their profits from 9/11. There is also the Silverstein, Marvin Bush, Securacom (now Stratesec), United Airlines, Dulles International Airport, etc....matrix for investigation.

Speaking of the Dulles brothers you can dive even deeper and research Allen & John Foster Dulles, BBH (Brown Brothers and Harriman or W. A. Harriman & Company), Prescott Bush, George Herbert Walker, Fritz Thyssen, Adolf Hitler, Sullivan & Cromwell, Union Banking Corporation, I.G. Farben, American Shipping & Commerce, Harriman Fifteen Corporation, Standard Oil of New Jersey, Holland American Trading Corporation, Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation, Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg, James Jesus Angleton, William S. Farish, John D. Rockefeller, Jr., William Gowen, Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, Baron Kurt Von Schroeder, The August Thyssen Bank, etc....

Then of course one would be remiss not to do the middle work on Operation Zapata, Zapata Oil Company, JFK assassination, Operation Mongoose, ZR/RIFLE program, etc....

Could also examine Eisenhower's involvement/relationship with parties listed above as documented by Robert Welch in his book "The Politician"....delving into such atrocities as Operation Keelhaul, Operation Paperclip, etc.

Side note: George Herbert Walker and son-in-law, Prescott Bush hosted the Eugenics conference in 1931 and both were involved in funding Hitler.....and in Operation Paperclip - helping key Nazi's escape and putting many of them in the OSS/CIA....

From there moving to the vageries of the Golden Triangle and heroin as documented by the most decorated special forces operative James "Bo" Gritz in his book "Called to Serve". A plethora of good books dive in around that point and take the ball and run with it with details on the world drug trade, terrorism, and little details like how the Clintons tie in via Mena Arkansas and the laundering of cocaine proceeds.

Here's a brief starting list:

The Politics of Heroin by Alfred McCoy
Out of Control by Leslie Cockburn
Dark Alliance by Gary Webb
Barry & 'the Boys': The CIA, the Mob and America's Secret History by Daniel Hopsicker
Powderburns by Celerino Castillo III & Dave Harmon
The Big White Lie by Michael Levine
Compromised by Terry Reed & John Cummings
Partners in Power by Roger Morris
The Strange Death of Vincent Foster by Christopher Ruddy
The Secret History of the CIA by Joseph John Trento
The Life and Times of Dillon Read by Robert Sobel
Friends in High Places: The Bechtel Story - The Most Secret Corporation and How It Engineered the World by Laton McCartney
The Halliburton Agenda: The Politics of Oil and Money by Dan Briody
House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties by Craig Unger
Foundations, Their Power and Influence by Rene Wormser.

...not to leave out -

The Iron Triangle: Inside the Secret World of the Carlyle Group by Dan Briody
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... lyle14.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and can't leave this gem out -

War is a Racket by General Smedley D Butler
http://www.scuttlebuttsmallchow.com/racket.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or this one -

None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen
http://www.whale.to/b/allen_b1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.captaincanadacrusades.ca/art ... 5B1%5D.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archi ... piracy.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyways...that's plenty to get you down the road enough to figure all the basics out...and to then explore the details to your hearts content...if you so desire.

[durangout]

The reason things like this matter, is that ideas like this are perpetuated by people like Hector Sosa. He specifically said on the Mills Crenshaw show that Obama would be the last sitting president. There are many people on LDSFF and similar sites that wholeheartedly believe in his book A Change is Coming and "feel" that it is correct.

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

You are so full of yourself that you don't see what is right in front of you. Things were put in the BofM because we will see things LIKE them in our day. It does not have to be the EXACT same scenario though. The story of Lehi fleeing Jerusalem is an example of a righteous man who had dreams and warned his neighbors of an impending destruction, and who was then called out to flee to the wilderness in search of a promised land and safe place for his family. And yes, I believe we too will be called out to flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction.

Wow, that was a stunning example of self-contradiction. LOL...and you are simply arbitrarily choosing which story / events to follow literally. This is just one example of the MANY dangers of following JR and her ilk. They very poorly interpret the meaning of scripture and teach you to follow a course that the scriptures didn't intend in the first place....the philosophies of men mingled w/ scripture.

[brianj]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

In the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 17:8, Nephi and his group are commanded to build a boat. But how did Nephi respond? The very next verse says: "And I said: Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten, that I may make tools to construct the ship after the manner which thou hast shown unto me?"

They didn't use their bare hands - they made the necessary tools to build the ship.

And the scriptures make it very clear that North America is where Zion, the New Jerusalem, will be built. Since I am already here, I obviously won't be building a ship to sail across an ocean. (Or multiple oceans. The best theory is that Nehpi et al built their ship at the southern end of the Arab peninsula and therefore would have floated across the Indian Ocean, Southern Ocean, and either Atlantic or Pacific to find their way to North America. If the theories of Adena and Hopewell being the Nephites and Lamanites are accurate, they likely came ashore on the Atlantic or Gulf coast.)

The scriptures also say that Zion will be the gathering place for the lost tribes and modern church members, and that in the last days none but the pure in heart seeking Zion will be able to safely travel upon the waters, so Saints on other continents will likely sail to North America - but I anticipate they will use existing ships instead of building their own.

[kirtland r.m.]

I don't think it matters if Obama is the last sitting president. We clearly are in for some rough times in the near future. The push for preparedness is the greatest I have ever seen it in my life. Within our stake we now have preparedness committees and preparedness training. All a person need do is to turn on the news to realize we are headed for disaster in this country.

The reason things like this matter, is that ideas like this are perpetuated by people like Hector Sosa. He specifically said on the Mills Crenshaw show that Obama would be the last sitting president. There are many people on LDSFF and similar sites that wholeheartedly believe in his book A Change is Coming and "feel" that it is correct.

If Obama is not the last sitting president as Sosa claims are those on here who "feel" he is right, willing to throw out his other predictions? And are they willing to throw out Julie Rowes as well since she claims she "knows" what he says is true? I agree with he OP that many on here seem to fantasize about the callout and any information or source that encourages that fantasy.

LOL...they will never admit that JR and HS are false prophets. It's a regligious tenet for them.

When their predictions don't come true, their followers simply change the meaning / verbiage of the "prophecy" or they simply ignore the fact that the prophecy was false (i.e. JR's bioterrorism attak for Feb '14). For example when JR's prophecy about an EQ in UT didn't happen last Oct, they changed it from an EQ to a "shaking". They say this did occur b/c that's when The Church came out with the gay children baptism ruling and it "shook" The Church. I LOVE it. Wen HS said THE EQ for UT was going to be in Oct '14 and nothing happend, they said he just got the date wrong @-) When JR said the market would crash last sept and it didn't they said oh but it did go down some in Aug so she was only off by a month...When the new president takes the White House they will say we repented and God gave us a repreive or it wasn't really about BHO but it was REALLY about Hilalry the whole time or something like that. I can't wait to here their excuse. :YMPARTY:

In case you didn't notice, the market took a big tumble in Aug. and Sept., Here is an update from Johathan Cahn about that Shemitah event.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVYeXJC55M
Rowe said market would drop much lower than that in coming months. Markets rebounded, and now have dropped lower than at the Shemitah, and I believe, will now go lower in coming months. Accurate so far, despite what you say. (-|

[kirtland r.m.]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

You are so full of yourself that you don't see what is right in front of you. Things were put in the BofM because we will see things LIKE them in our day. It does not have to be the EXACT same scenario though. The story of Lehi fleeing Jerusalem is an example of a righteous man who had dreams and warned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mVYeXJC55M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; And yes, I believe we too will be called out to flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction.

Wow, that was a stunning example of self-contradiction. LOL...and you are siimply arbitrarily choosing which story / events to follow literally. This is just one example of the MANY dangers of following JR and her ilk. They very poorly interpret the meaning of scripture and teach you to follow a course that the scriptures didn't intend in the first place....the philosophies of men mingled w/ scripture.

So listening to the Lord, and leaving a corrupt group of people who are about to face the judgements of the Lord, and flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction, is "a stunning example of self-contradiction ?" =)) . Really, you have outdone yourself this time! I'm sure there are many things you and I could agree on, just not this subject of the Saints and others needing to gather for protection, and a few other events that we are about to see take place, and brianj is right. This is the Lord's pattern from the scriptures.

[sushi_chef]

off-shooty to "Talk given by Hector Sosa Jr. at the UVU Preparedness Expo, August 15, 2015....
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41227" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:-B

[durangout]

Jason:

Like said I may be wrong...If Jeb "wins" the presidency or even is given the nomination, you and the information you posted is correct. If neither of those things happens it pretty much discounts what is being suggested.

[durangout]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

Your ignorance of scripture is stunning.
In the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 17:8, Nephi and his group are commanded to build a boat. But how did Nephi respond? The very next verse says: "And I said: Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten, that I may make tools to construct the ship after the manner which thou hast shown unto me?"

They didn't use their bare hands - they made the necessary tools to build the ship.

And the scriptures make it very clear that North America is where Zion, the New Jerusalem, will be built. Since I am already here, I obviously won't be building a ship to sail across an ocean. (Or multiple oceans. The best theory is that Nehpi et al built their ship at the southern end of the Arab peninsula and therefore would have floated across the Indian Ocean, Southern Ocean, and either Atlantic or Pacific to find their way to North America. If the theories of Adena and Hopewell being the Nephites and Lamanites are accurate, they likely came ashore on the Atlantic or Gulf coast.)

The scriptures also say that Zion will be the gathering place for the lost tribes and modern church members, and that in the last days none but the pure in heart seeking Zion will be able to safely travel upon the waters, so Saints on other continents will likely sail to North America - but I anticipate they will use existing ships instead of building their own.

psssssst..."with their bare hands" is a figure of speech. LOL and you call ME ignorant.

[kirtland r.m.]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

Your ignorance of scripture is stunning.
In the Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 17:8, Nephi and his group are commanded to build a boat. But how did Nephi respond? The very next verse says: "And I said: Lord, whither shall I go that I may find ore to molten, that I may make tools to construct the ship after the manner which thou hast shown unto me?"

They didn't use their bare hands - they made the necessary tools to build the ship.

And the scriptures make it very clear that North America is where Zion, the New Jerusalem, will be built. Since I am already here, I obviously won't be building a ship to sail across an ocean. (Or multiple oceans. The best theory is that Nehpi et al built their ship at the southern end of the Arab peninsula and therefore would have floated across the Indian Ocean, Southern Ocean, and either Atlantic or Pacific to find their way to North America. If the theories of Adena and Hopewell being the Nephites and Lamanites are accurate, they likely came ashore on the Atlantic or Gulf coast.)

The scriptures also say that Zion will be the gathering place for the lost tribes and modern church members, and that in the last days none but the pure in heart seeking Zion will be able to safely travel upon the waters, so Saints on other continents will likely sail to North America - but I anticipate they will use existing ships instead of building their own.

Remember that in the cases of Noah and Lehi, they needed a ship for good reason. In a call out here we will need other things. Liken the scriptures unto ourselves remember, not quite like you implied d.."In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right"? Have a GREAT DAY all!



psssssst..."with their bare hands" is a figure of speech. LOL and you call ME ignorant.

[Jason]

Jason:

Like said I may be wrong...If Jeb "wins" the presidency or even is given the nomination, you and the information you posted is correct. If neither of those things happens it pretty much discounts what is being suggested.

I don't know if they want him in or not. I only know they have the power to make that happen should they so desire. So whether he gets in or not...really isn't the deciphering point on whether the information I presented is accurate or not.

My "guess" is that they want him in...otherwise he wouldn't even be on the docket (according to my logic)...

[kfb]

The reason things like this matter, is that ideas like this are perpetuated by people like Hector Sosa. He specifically said on the Mills Crenshaw show that Obama would be the last sitting president. There are many people on LDSFF and similar sites that wholeheartedly believe in his book A Change is Coming and "feel" that it is correct.

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

You are so full of yourself that you don't see what is right in front of you. Things were put in the BofM because we will see things LIKE them in our day. It does not have to be the EXACT same scenario though. The story of Lehi fleeing Jerusalem is an example of a righteous man who had dreams and warned his neighbors of an impending destruction, and who was then called out to flee to the wilderness in search of a promised land and safe place for his family. And yes, I believe we too will be called out to flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction.

Lehi was a prophet not just a guy having dreams and NDE.

[kirtland r.m.]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

You are so full of yourself that you don't see what is right in front of you. Things were put in the BofM because we will see things LIKE them in our day. It does not have to be the EXACT same scenario though. The story of Lehi fleeing Jerusalem is an example of a righteous man who had dreams and warned his neighbors of an impending destruction, and who was then called out to flee to the wilderness in search of a promised land and safe place for his family. And yes, I believe we too will be called out to flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction.

Lehi was a prophet not just a guy having dreams and NDE.

So were these guys...

A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives. In a letter from
Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser on July 24, 1896:

"... My brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph
say that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the
rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860's between the North and the
South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that.
time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother
told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble
of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the
United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short
and concise manner as possible.

JD, JOHN TAYLOR 20:318

Were we surprised when the last terrible war took place here in the United States? No; good Latter-day Saints were not, for they had been told about it. Joseph Smith had told them where it would start, that it should be a terrible time of bloodshed and that it should start in South Carolina. But I tell you today the end is not yet. You will see worse things than that, for God will lay his hand upon this nation, and they will feel it more terribly than ever they have done before; there will be more bloodshed, more ruin, more devastation than never they have seen before. Write it down! You will see it come to pass; it is only just starting in. And would you feel to rejoice? No; I would feel sorry. I knew very well myself when this last war was commencing, and could have wept and did weep, over this nation; but there is yet to come a sound of war, trouble and distress, in which brother will be arrayed against brother, father against son, son against father, a scene of desolation and destruction that will permeate our land until it will be a vexation to hear the report thereof.

JD, ORSON PRATT 20:151


But what about the American nation. That war that destroyed the lives of some fifteen or sixteen hundred thousand people was nothing, compared to that which will eventually devastate that country. The time is not very far distant in the future, when the Lord God will lay his hand heavily upon that nations. "How do you know this? inquires one." I know from the revelations which God has given upon this subject. I read these revelations, when they were first given. I waited over twenty-eight years and saw their fulfillment to the very letter. Should I not, then, expect that the balance of them should be fulfilled? That same God who gave the revelations to his servant Joseph Smith in regard to these matters, will fulfil every jot and every tittle that has been spoken, concerning that nation. What then will be the condition of that people, when this great and terrible war shall come? It will be very different from the war between the North and the South. Do you wish me to describe it? I will do so. It will be a war of neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, county against county, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed and manufacturing will, in a great measure, cease, for a time, among the American nation. Why? Because in these terrible wars, they will not be privileged to manufacture, there will be too much bloodshed--too much mobocracy--too much going forth in bands and destroying and pillaging the land to suffer people to pursue any local vocation with any degree of safety. What will become of millions of the farmers upon that land? They will leave their farms and they will remain uncultivated, and they will flee before the ravaging armies from place to place; and thus will they go forth burning and pillaging the whole country; and that great and powerful nation, now consisting of some forty millions of people, will be wasted away, unless they repent.

TPJS, JOSEPH SMITH :161

I saw men hunting the lives of their own sons, and brother murdering brother, women killing their own daughters, and daughters seeking the lives of their mothers. I saw armies arrayed against armies. I saw blood, desolation, fires. The Son of man has said that the mother shall be against the daughters, and the daughter against the mother. These things are at our doors. They will follow the Saints of God from city to city. Satan will rage, and the spirit of the devil is now enraged. I know not how soon these things will take place; but with a view of them, shall I cry peace? No; I will lift up my voice and testify of them. How long you will have good crops, and the famine be kept off, I do not know; when the fig tree leaves, know then that the summer is nigh at hand.

A Remarkable Prophecy By President John Taylor As Told by Edward Lunt, An Ordinance Worker in the Mesa Temple

The following incident occurred at my father's home in Cedar City, at the time a stake conference was being held in that city, at which President John Taylor and George A. Smith were present.

Apostle Smith was asked to conduct the conference, as President Taylor wished to rest after his having held meetings in the different wards and stakes between Salt Lake City and Cedar City. President Taylor asked Elder George A. Smith to start the conference, as he wished to rest until the afternoon meeting. President Taylor, with some of the authorities, was staying at the home of my parents during this conference.

President Taylor wished to go to his room and lie down. He asked my mother to awaken him in time for the afternoon conference, as he feared he might oversleep and thus fail to arrive at the conference in time.
My mother was busy preparing dinner for the visitors but was surprised to see President Taylor come into the kitchen so soon after retiring for his much needed rest. He immediately started telling mother of a most remarkable vision that he had just had while in his room.

He stated that he saw that Salt Lake City would become a great city with many beautiful paved roads and streets of cement construction, and that the people had become wealthy. He saw that the city extended almost to the point of the mountain south of the new 1951 State prison.

The people, he saw, had become quite indifferent to the counsel and advice of the authorities of the church, and were more interested in the accumulation of wealth than they were in living their religion. He told mother that he saw that war had been started, and that so great was the destruction of life within the city that blood ran down the gutters as though it were streams of water, and the violence was such that it would cause the destruction of the beautiful city. The people were fighting among themselves until it became necessary to remove the church records across the Colorado river.

President Taylor said to mother, "If you are alive at that time, be sure that you are not behind the Church records, because after the Church records leave and are made secure, the very powers of hell would be turned loose, and there will be such destruction that there will be but little life remain, ---not only in Salt Lake City, but in adjoining cities also. And in Jackson County, Missouri civilization will become entirely extinct, and all means of transportation such as rail roads and highways will be destroyed, and the only means of travel will be on foot.

All means of manufacturing will also be entirely destroyed. Be sure when you see these things come that you have buttons, needles, cloth and things to work with as much as possible, to make yourselves clothing, because all tools and every kind of machinery will be destroyed. It will be such a destructive war that in comparison to the sufferings and the drivings of the people of Nauvoo, it would be only a drop in the bucket.

"One half of the Mormon people will entirely forsake their leaders, and half of the other half, because of their suffering, will leave the church. Many Mormons will die in the struggle, but the Lord will bless those who stick faithfully to the church and will bless them to the extent that they will not be destroyed.

WILFORD WOODRUFF'S DREAM:
I was in a dream in the City of Salt Lake wandering around the streets. In all parts of the city on the doors of the houses I found badges of mourning and I could not find a house that was not in mourning.... The next I knew I was just this side of Omaha. It seemed I was above the earth, and looking down at it. As I passed along upon my way east, I saw the road full of people, mostly women, with just what they could carry in bundles on their backs traveling to the mountains on foot. ...Everywhere I went I saw the same scenes of horror and destruction was everywhere. ...I supposed this was the end, but no. I was given to understand that the same horrors were being enacted all over the country — East, West, North, South. — Prophetic Years, Anderson, p. 54.


Joseph Smith:
...A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before; for the land will be literally left without a supreme government, and every species of wickedness will run rampant. Father will be against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against mother. The most terrible scenes of murder and bloodshed, and rapine that have ever been looked upon will take place. — White Horse Prophecy.

...direct cause of war. And if this should be the case, it would very naturally spread to every
neighborhood in the Union. One class of political opponents would rise up against the other class
in the same city and country, and thus would arise a war of mobocracy.
Discourse by Elder Orson Pratt, delivered in the Eighteenth Ward Meetinghouse, Salt Lake City,
Sunday Afternoon, Feb. 25, 1877.
More ruin, more devastation than ever they have seen before
, President John Taylor
.
Need we be surprised that they should trample underfoot the Constitution of the United States?
No; Joseph Smith told us that they would do it. Many around me here knew long ago that they
would do this thing and further knew that the last people that should be found to rally around that
sacred instrument and save it from the grasp of unrighteous men would be the Elders of Israel!
...Were we surprised when the last terrible war took place here in the United States? No; good
Latter-day Saints were not, for they had been told about it. Joseph Smith had told them where it
would start, that it should be a terrible time of bloodshed and that it should start in South
Carolina. But I tell you today the end is not yet. You will see worse things than that, for God will
lay his hand upon this nation, and they will feel it more terribly than ever they have done before;
there will be more bloodshed, more ruin, more devastation than ever they have seen before.
Discourse by President John Taylor, delivered at General Conference, Salt Lake City, October 6,
1879.
Civil War
President Brigham Young
When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, “Come home; I
will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth,” all you
now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes,
hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few
railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the
earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing mighty
cities. Famine will spread over the nations, and nation will rise up against nation, kingdom
against kingdom, and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands; and they will
destroy each other, caring not for the blood and lives of their neighbors, of their families, or for
their own lives. They will be like the Jaredites who preceded the Nephites upon this continent,
and will destroy each other to the last man, through the anger that the Devil will place in their
hearts, because they have rejected the words of life and are given over to Satan to do whatever he
listeth to do with them. You may think that the little you hear of now is grievous; yet the faithful
of God's people will see days that will cause them to close their eyes because of the sorrow that
will come upon the wicked nations. The hearts of the faithful will be filled with pain and anguish
for them.
Remarks by President Brigham Young, made in the Bowery, Salt Lake City, July 15, 1860.

I saw that during the turbulent period when the United States was under Martial Law,the country received assistance from the United Nations...Troops were sent to the larger cities to stop the rioting...I saw that foreign troops from various nations rose up against the American people,seeking to take over the land.Within a short time,I witnessed Russian and Chinese troops invading the U.S. coasts...I was shown their goal,along with other conspiring governments,to eliminate millions of U.S. citizens along with much of our country's infrastructure,yet preserve ...as much of the land and cities as possible so that they can occupy it themselves.Julie Rowe,The Time is Now,p115,116.

And now more about invasion of U.S. by foreign troops...

Mosiah Hancock

[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle.
They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)

DAVID HUGHES HORNE, P. E.
Chemical Engineer
28 February 1989
Sometimes rare, traumatic or shocking events become emblazoned into one's memory. This paper documents such an event. In 1946 I witnessed a prophetic utterance made by George Albert Smith, the Prophet and President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter—day Saints from 1945 to 1951. I am a son of Dr. Lyman Merrill Horne and Myrtle Swainston Horne. My father was a g-grandson of George A. Smith, cousin of the Prophet Joseph and Counselor to Brigham Young. His grandson President George Albert Smith was dad's mother's first cousin. From 1944 until March 1947 we lived on the same block in the Yale Ward as George Albert Smith and frequently had contact with him. Many times he paused at our home while on his evening walk and talked with me as I worked in our front yard. My family visited him a few times at his home, and he visited my family at our home several times. He always showed pleasure when I met him and once told me what work the Lord had for me to do and what I must do to be prepared to do His work.
One day our father arranged for George Albert Smith to speak to us...The Prophet told us of a vision he had had. At least 11 elements of it have occurred, and the rest may occur soon... President Smith said, “I have had a troublesome vision of another great and terrible war that made the war just ended look like a training exercise, and people died like flies. It began at a time when the Soviet Union's military might dwarfed that of the United States, and we, that is the United States, would have missiles that carried an atomic bomb in Europe. I saw the United States withdraw its missiles to appease the Soviet Union, and then the war began.” He also said that we would have big missiles in deep holes he described like grain silos which the Soviets would try to destroy by their own missiles. They would hit military installations and some cities also.
David Horne also mentioned that President Smith indicated that this nuclear
attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office.The following war would involve many of the countries of
the world but President Smith talked specifically about Europe, Germany,
Hungary, Israel, Turkey, United States, and the Soviet Union, as well as a few
others.

[Talon65]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

looking at this in a bit more detail - if the "President of non-European descent" is indeed Obama, then we can figure out a time frame from the other clues given... He will be in Office 1 more year, elections are in November 2016 & the transfer of power is in January of 2017.... so, an American Holiday between Nov 8th, 2016 and January 20th, 2017 would include Veterans day, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years Eve.... I will be paying attention to world events during this time frame, if something major were about to happen, there would likely be "heightened tensions" between world governments leading up to it... if nothing happens during this time frame, I'd think it throws the whole idea out completely...

[shadow]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

looking at this in a bit more detail - if the "President of non-European descent" is indeed Obama, then we can figure out a time frame from the other clues given... He will be in Office 1 more year, elections are in November 2016 & the transfer of power is in January of 2017.... so, an American Holiday between Nov 8th, 2016 and January 20th, 2017 would include Veterans day, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years Eve.... I will be paying attention to world events during this time frame, if something major were about to happen, there would likely be "heightened tensions" between world governments leading up to it... if nothing happens during this time frame, I'd think it throws the whole idea out completely...

The problem I see is that the one who had the vision didn't record the vision and the first-hand hearer of the vision (who was 11when he heard it and didn't write it down until many years later) keeps changing a key part. First it was "president of Greek extraction" and now it's "president of non-European descent". The two are completely different. I suspect if nothing happens during this time frame then the vision will revert back to "Greek extraction". That's the version that gained popularity in the 80's when Dukakis, who was Greek, ran for president.

[gkearney]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

Beyond the fact that people have turned the part about "Greek" to now mean non-northern European decent, I would point out here that Obama is indeed of "northern European decent". His mother is white of northern European decent, he is only of half African decent.

[Jason]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

Beyond the fact that people have turned the part about "Greek" to now mean northern European decent, I would point out here that Obama is indeed of "northern European decent". His mother is white of northern European decent, he is only of half African decent.

Mentored by Frank Marshall Davis of "Sex Rebel Black" fame...

[h_p]

Beyond the fact that people have turned the part about "Greek" to now mean northern European decent, I would point out here that Obama is indeed of "northern European decent". His mother is white of northern European decent, he is only of half African decent.

Isn't the original author, David Horne, the one who changed this? The statements he's made has pretty much nailed this whole thing down to happening this year, before Obama leaves office. He has given himself no more wiggle room on it.

[I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS]

Anyone convinced that we will be attacked before Obama leaves office willing to make a friendly wager?

I'll wager 10 Silver Eagles that we will not be attacked. This obviously doesn't include terrorist attacks, but rather an attack from a Nation State such as Russia.

[Mark]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

looking at this in a bit more detail - if the "President of non-European descent" is indeed Obama, then we can figure out a time frame from the other clues given... He will be in Office 1 more year, elections are in November 2016 & the transfer of power is in January of 2017.... so, an American Holiday between Nov 8th, 2016 and January 20th, 2017 would include Veterans day, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years Eve.... I will be paying attention to world events during this time frame, if something major were about to happen, there would likely be "heightened tensions" between world governments leading up to it... if nothing happens during this time frame, I'd think it throws the whole idea out completely...

The problem I see is that the one who had the vision didn't record the vision and the first-hand hearer of the vision (who was 11when he heard it and didn't write it down until many years later) keeps changing a key part. First it was "president of Greek extraction" and now it's "president of non-European descent". The two are completely different. I suspect if nothing happens during this time frame then the vision will revert back to "Greek extraction". That's the version that gained popularity in the 80's when Dukakis, who was Greek, ran for president.

Killjoy. =; Quit peeing on the gloomer doomer society parade. I hope your tent leaks.. :ymdevil:

[Vision]

Don't forget the Book of Mormon. It was written for our day, to share things that will be necessary for us to know. Several times in the Book of Mormon somebody tries to set himself up as a king over the people and attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government. Why is this in the Book of Mormon? Because we can look forward to the same thing happening to us.
We learn about the Gaddianton Robbes because the same organization will exist within our government, and it does.
What's the point of the Stripling Warriors? I believe that we need to raise our children with such a strong faith that, if they are the generation called upon, they will be able to stand up to government and foreign forces to defeat them and reestablish a government based on the Constitution.

In said book, they made a boat with their bare hands and sailed across an ocean...based upon your logic, we will have to do the same thing too, right?

You are so full of yourself that you don't see what is right in front of you. Things were put in the BofM because we will see things LIKE them in our day. It does not have to be the EXACT same scenario though. The story of Lehi fleeing Jerusalem is an example of a righteous man who had dreams and warned his neighbors of an impending destruction, and who was then called out to flee to the wilderness in search of a promised land and safe place for his family. And yes, I believe we too will be called out to flee to the wilderness for safety before an impending destruction.

Lehi was a prophet not just a guy having dreams and NDE.

Will you show where in the BOM it says Lehi was a prophet?

[Talon65]

https://www.lds.org/liahona/1977/05/fat ... h?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

while not the BoM, this article on the LDS Church website refers to him being a "Great Prophet" multiple times...

[shadow]

this line sticks out to me: "...attack would take place after the first President of non northern European decent was in office, on a holiday after the next new president was elected, but before he took office..."

looking at this in a bit more detail - if the "President of non-European descent" is indeed Obama, then we can figure out a time frame from the other clues given... He will be in Office 1 more year, elections are in November 2016 & the transfer of power is in January of 2017.... so, an American Holiday between Nov 8th, 2016 and January 20th, 2017 would include Veterans day, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years Eve.... I will be paying attention to world events during this time frame, if something major were about to happen, there would likely be "heightened tensions" between world governments leading up to it... if nothing happens during this time frame, I'd think it throws the whole idea out completely...

The problem I see is that the one who had the vision didn't record the vision and the first-hand hearer of the vision (who was 11when he heard it and didn't write it down until many years later) keeps changing a key part. First it was "president of Greek extraction" and now it's "president of non-European descent". The two are completely different. I suspect if nothing happens during this time frame then the vision will revert back to "Greek extraction". That's the version that gained popularity in the 80's when Dukakis, who was Greek, ran for president.

Killjoy. =; Quit peeing on the gloomer doomer society parade. I hope your tent leaks.. :ymdevil:

I don't even have a tent. I let the scouts use it once. That's all that needs to be said.
The only camping I do these days is in a motor home. I suffer in Babylon, but it's comfortable.

[brianj]

Will you show where in the BOM it says Lehi was a prophet?

The heading to First Nephi chapter 1 says Lehi "praises God, foretells the coming of the Messiah, and prophesies the destruction of Jerusalem."

Although it doesn't say "Lehi is a prophet," who beside a prophet prophesies?

[OCDMOM]

This is fun. http://madworldnews.com/psychic-prediction-obama-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;