Do you believe Julie?

[mirkwood]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

And you know this how?

FTR I'm derisively known as a TBM and glad to be one.

All the people I know who have read or heard of her are TBM's.

[durangout]

It's a good read. Many on the forum have read it.

.... and dismissed it.

Not as many as have dismissed Julie's books!

Actually I found it MUCH worse than JR's book from the shear amount of false doctrine, incorrectly interpreted scriptures and other red flags. I can only categorize VG as BAD LDS Science Fiction.

[Matchmaker]

I am not going to judge the validity of either one of the author's books. I enjoyed reading all of them, and I am waiting to read Hector Sosa's book soon too. I realize that what they write is their own individual truth meant for them and their families.

I like to read their testimonies and interpretations. I know big earthquakes are coming along the Wasatch Front, so I am getting prepared to the best of my ability. I wish everyone saw the same things in the same sequence. It would be less confusing. However, I realize I am reading about counsel given to the authors about their particular situations, and I need to be careful applying their counsel to my own life.

[zionminded]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

And you know this how?

I don't have statistical facts, but it appears that much of the anti JR propoganda in this forum comes from either ex-mormon's or from die hard fundamentalists. There are exceptions. The recent pod cast about her, seemed to echo that.

[Mcox]

Zion you couldn't be more wrong. I for one am a very active member of the church. I have served 2 missions, I'm a temple worker and I teach gospel doctrine. I think the opposite is true. Those who fall for these fads according to Elder Maxwell "are not doctrinally sophisticated." Now that being said! I was one of them last year....but thankfully I continued to study and pray, and I know the truth now.

[theBruceGuy]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

And you know this how?

FTR I'm derisively known as a TBM and glad to be one.

All the people I know who have read or heard of her are TBM's.

I use the term TBM and there is no derision in it. It is descriptive. JFS was proud of the title "I'm a Mormon, .....true Blue, through and through. Why you would think it is given derisively, I don't know. It is only that way in your own mind, but I am happy that you are glad to be TBM.

It is simply used to clarify that you are not someone who believes in any of the Remnant, or breakoff groups.

[GrandMasterB]

I am not going to judge the validity of either one of the author's books. I enjoyed reading all of them, and I am waiting to read Hector Sosa's book soon too. I realize that what they write is their own individual truth meant for them and their families.

I like to read their testimonies and interpretations. I know big earthquakes are coming along the Wasatch Front, so I am getting prepared to the best of my ability. I wish everyone saw the same things in the same sequence. It would be less confusing. However, I realize I am reading about counsel given to the authors about their particular situations, and I need to be careful applying their counsel to my own life.

Be forewarned that Hector's book is horrible.

[Onsdag]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

I don't mean to single you out, but rather to address this spurious (I like this word) claim and all others of its ilk. I have heard many blatantly false claims that just because someone disagrees with Julie Rowe that they [fill in the blank with some false accusation and then misapply it to everyone who disagrees with her in order to try making them look bad]. And frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Anyone who knows me or has read my posts will know that I have been a vocal advocate against Julie Rowe's book. I simply do not believe it is true as she claims. According to some of her protagonists then the following spurious claims must be true about me and those others who disagree with Julie (I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure many of those who disagree with Julie feel similarly):

• I "don't believe the LDS church is divinely led." Absolutely blatantly false. And shame on you for suggesting it. This is such an absurd suggestion as to defy all thought. Since when has not believing Julie Rowe suddenly equated to not believing the Church is led by God? Seriously?! Wow. I just don't know what to even say to that lie.
• I don't believe in receiving personal revelation. Another absolutely false one. In fact it is because of doing my due diligence and receiving personal revelation that I have come to believe her account is not true.
• I don't believe the prophets/prophecies in that bad things are coming. Again false. I am well aware of, perhaps more than most, that bad things are coming. I don't know exactly how everything will play out, but I have studied the scriptures and words of the prophets and I know they speak of great calamities proceeding the second coming and I know them to be true.
• I'm not prepared for the calamities that are coming. Again false. Well... sorta. You see, can any one ever truly be fully ready and prepared for that which is to come? In some ways yes, and in some ways no. Have I done my best to follow the counsel of the prophets in having a supply of food, shelter, clothing, etc.? Yes. Have I done my best to learn skills, such as gardening, that will be of use in the days ahead? Yes. Have I tried to be spiritually ready? Yes. Is there still more that can be done? Absolutely!
• I don't believe in dreams and visions. On the contrary. I have had numerous dreams which I feel have come from God warning me of things to come in the days ahead and to help prepare me for those days. I feel that many of the things I saw in these dreams will not necessarily happen literally though, but rather they were used to teach me important truths or principles that I need to know, such as following the prophet, receiving and listening to the Holy Ghost and promptings I receive, the power of prayer and the priesthood, and many more things.
• I'm fearful and afraid of what the future may hold, therefore I deny what Julie is saying as true. Actually, because of my familiarity with the scriptures and words of the prophets I think I have a pretty good grasp on what the future holds. And yes, it is sobering and perhaps a bit unnerving. Still, and moreover, because I know how it turns out in the end, I am excited and looking forward to those things that are coming which will culminate in the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to reign personally upon the earth.
• I don't want to admit that Julie may be right and that we may have to go live in tent cities in the mountains. Actually, I am willing to entertain and accept it as a possibility. There does seem to be some scriptural support for something like it happening. You may not realize it, but I was a member of AVOW (an online forum where these things have been discussed at length) long before Julie Rowe ever popularized it and brought the idea more into the mainstream. Still, I am not so blind as to not realize that the Lord may have something else entirely in store for His saints than a "call-out."
• I'm not willing to follow the prophets should a "call-out" come. On the contrary, I know God has chosen His servants the prophets and apostles for a reason, and I am willing to follow them whatever they ask. And how do we prepare ourselves to follow them in the future? By following them right now. And what have they asked us to do? Stand where we are and be a light to those around us, live the gospel, love one another, etc., etc. It is these things I am striving to do, right now, so that whatever happens in the future I will already be willing and able to follow the Lord's anointed servants wherever and whenever I am.
• I don't want to attend all of my meetings at Church. Wrong again. In fact I attend all my meetings already, have done so from my youth up, and will continue to do so in the future. Not because I'm afraid of missing out on some super-secretive meeting and invitation from the prophet, but rather, because I love the Lord, want to serve Him, want to honor the Sabbath, renew my covenants, learn, and also help teach others the gospel, and so much more.
• "Much of the anti JR propoganda in this forum comes from either ex-mormon's or from die hard fundamentalists." Again a lie. I'm an active and faithful member of the Church. Most of the people I know who have spoken out against her books are also, as far as I'm aware, active and faithful members of the Church too.

Now, as for the topic of this thread. Believe it or not I actually voted "kinda." Do I believe Julie's book is true, just as it is written? Absolutely not! You can read my review in the book review section for further details as to why. Having said that though, there are truths found in her book and it is not completely false - otherwise she likely would never have garnered the success and following she has. Therefore I "kinda" believe it's true, but at the same time there are so many problems with her account that I cannot in good conscience recommend it to others as being true.

[mirkwood]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

And you know this how?

FTR I'm derisively known as a TBM and glad to be one.

All the people I know who have read or heard of her are TBM's.

I use the term TBM and there is no derision in it. It is descriptive. JFS was proud of the title "I'm a Mormon, .....true Blue, through and through. Why you would think it is given derisively, I don't know. It is only that way in your own mind, but I am happy that you are glad to be TBM.

It is simply used to clarify that you are not someone who believes in any of the Remnant, or breakoff groups.

I was using that term to describe a certain mentality around this place.

[brianj]

Most of the GAs books are in the library.

What library? They are not available in my ward library, my county library, or the library systems of other nearby counties.

[Matchmaker]

Most of the GAs books are in the library.

What library? They are not available in my ward library, my county library, or the library systems of other nearby counties.

Salt Lake County Library

[zionminded]

Many who don't believe her also don't believe the LDS church is divinely led.

I don't mean to single you out, but rather to address this spurious (I like this word) claim and all others of its ilk. I have heard many blatantly false claims that just because someone disagrees with Julie Rowe that they [fill in the blank with some false accusation and then misapply it to everyone who disagrees with her in order to try making them look bad]. And frankly I'm getting sick of it.

Anyone who knows me or has read my posts will know that I have been a vocal advocate against Julie Rowe's book. I simply do not believe it is true as she claims. According to some of her protagonists then the following spurious claims must be true about me and those others who disagree with Julie (I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure many of those who disagree with Julie feel similarly):

• I "don't believe the LDS church is divinely led." Absolutely blatantly false. And shame on you for suggesting it. This is such an absurd suggestion as to defy all thought. Since when has not believing Julie Rowe suddenly equated to not believing the Church is led by God? Seriously?! Wow. I just don't know what to even say to that lie.
• I don't believe in receiving personal revelation. Another absolutely false one. In fact it is because of doing my due diligence and receiving personal revelation that I have come to believe her account is not true.
• I don't believe the prophets/prophecies in that bad things are coming. Again false. I am well aware of, perhaps more than most, that bad things are coming. I don't know exactly how everything will play out, but I have studied the scriptures and words of the prophets and I know they speak of great calamities proceeding the second coming and I know them to be true.
• I'm not prepared for the calamities that are coming. Again false. Well... sorta. You see, can any one ever truly be fully ready and prepared for that which is to come? In some ways yes, and in some ways no. Have I done my best to follow the counsel of the prophets in having a supply of food, shelter, clothing, etc.? Yes. Have I done my best to learn skills, such as gardening, that will be of use in the days ahead? Yes. Have I tried to be spiritually ready? Yes. Is there still more that can be done? Absolutely!
• I don't believe in dreams and visions. On the contrary. I have had numerous dreams which I feel have come from God warning me of things to come in the days ahead and to help prepare me for those days. I feel that many of the things I saw in these dreams will not necessarily happen literally though, but rather they were used to teach me important truths or principles that I need to know, such as following the prophet, receiving and listening to the Holy Ghost and promptings I receive, the power of prayer and the priesthood, and many more things.
• I'm fearful and afraid of what the future may hold, therefore I deny what Julie is saying as true. Actually, because of my familiarity with the scriptures and words of the prophets I think I have a pretty good grasp on what the future holds. And yes, it is sobering and perhaps a bit unnerving. Still, and moreover, because I know how it turns out in the end, I am excited and looking forward to those things that are coming which will culminate in the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to reign personally upon the earth.
• I don't want to admit that Julie may be right and that we may have to go live in tent cities in the mountains. Actually, I am willing to entertain and accept it as a possibility. There does seem to be some scriptural support for something like it happening. You may not realize it, but I was a member of AVOW (an online forum where these things have been discussed at length) long before Julie Rowe ever popularized it and brought the idea more into the mainstream. Still, I am not so blind as to not realize that the Lord may have something else entirely in store for His saints than a "call-out."
• I'm not willing to follow the prophets should a "call-out" come. On the contrary, I know God has chosen His servants the prophets and apostles for a reason, and I am willing to follow them whatever they ask. And how do we prepare ourselves to follow them in the future? By following them right now. And what have they asked us to do? Stand where we are and be a light to those around us, live the gospel, love one another, etc., etc. It is these things I am striving to do, right now, so that whatever happens in the future I will already be willing and able to follow the Lord's anointed servants wherever and whenever I am.
• I don't want to attend all of my meetings at Church. Wrong again. In fact I attend all my meetings already, have done so from my youth up, and will continue to do so in the future. Not because I'm afraid of missing out on some super-secretive meeting and invitation from the prophet, but rather, because I love the Lord, want to serve Him, want to honor the Sabbath, renew my covenants, learn, and also help teach others the gospel, and so much more.
• "Much of the anti JR propoganda in this forum comes from either ex-mormon's or from die hard fundamentalists." Again a lie. I'm an active and faithful member of the Church. Most of the people I know who have spoken out against her books are also, as far as I'm aware, active and faithful members of the Church too.

Now, as for the topic of this thread. Believe it or not I actually voted "kinda." Do I believe Julie's book is true, just as it is written? Absolutely not! You can read my review in the book review section for further details as to why. Having said that though, there are truths found in her book and it is not completely false - otherwise she likely would never have garnered the success and following she has. Therefore I "kinda" believe it's true, but at the same time there are so many problems with her account that I cannot in good conscience recommend it to others as being true.

Thank you for that post. Generalizations are not always accurate. I think you're an exception to mine. Please forgive me for any unrighteous judgement it wasn't my intent to put everybody into the same box, as I know we are all very different in our view points and positions.

[KurtTheMormon]

Here's my take on it all:

Something doesn't feel quite right.

Exactly what isn't quite right? I don't know. However, I think what she is saying is truth mingled with some portion of error.

[iWriteStuff]

I am not going to judge the validity of either one of the author's books. I enjoyed reading all of them, and I am waiting to read Hector Sosa's book soon too. I realize that what they write is their own individual truth meant for them and their families.

I like to read their testimonies and interpretations. I know big earthquakes are coming along the Wasatch Front, so I am getting prepared to the best of my ability. I wish everyone saw the same things in the same sequence. It would be less confusing. However, I realize I am reading about counsel given to the authors about their particular situations, and I need to be careful applying their counsel to my own life.

Be forewarned that Hector's book is horrible.

Please elaborate! Julie seems to endorse him quite highly.

[zionminded]

Here's my take on it all:

Something doesn't feel quite right.

Exactly what isn't quite right? I don't know. However, I think what she is saying is truth mingled with some portion of error.

Who's truth isn't?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Seems she is not approved of the brethren either...

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church- ... misleading" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where are the false prophet criers - shadow? rewcox? AI 2.0? or did you already state thus with her?

[rewcox]

Seems she is not approved of the brethren either...

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church- ... misleading" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where are the false prophet criers - shadow? rewcox? AI 2.0? or did you already state thus with her?

The church didn't say she was misleading, kutv did. JR says to follow the leaders. You don't say that.

JR has made some statements which will soon be shown one way or the other. DS exposed himself in the 10th talk.

You also made some statements, and as Shadow has mentioned, not looking so good.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Seems she is not approved of the brethren either...

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church- ... misleading" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Where are the false prophet criers - shadow? rewcox? AI 2.0? or did you already state thus with her?

The church didn't say she was misleading, kutv did. JR says to follow the leaders. You don't say that.

JR has made some statements which will soon be shown one way or the other. DS exposed himself in the 10th talk.

You also made some statements, and as Shadow has mentioned, not looking so good.

So you are now quoting shadow as if he is some authority - wow... pretty hypocritical. You I would expect at least the courtesy to read my words directly rather than believe what mr shadow has erroneously put into my mouth - which is in error. It is people like him and you put false words in others mouths that they never said - that is dangerous ground.

You go ahead and start quoting shadow, and who knows but you two will be the next prophets in the hierarchy chosen by God?

[rewcox]

So you are now quoting shadow as if he is some authority - wow... pretty hypocritical. You I would expect at least the courtesy to read my words directly rather than believe what mr shadow has erroneously put into my mouth - which is in error. It is people like him and you put false words in others mouths that they never said - that is dangerous ground.

You go ahead and start quoting shadow, and who knows but you two will be the next prophets in the hierarchy chosen by God?

Others too have been saying things about what might happen. You open yourself up to people not believing what you say.

Neither shadow or I are authorities, just observers.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

[
Others too have been saying things about what might happen. You open yourself up to people not believing what you say.
Another amazing insight! Wow! Really? I had not clue! Thanks for this revelation.

Neither shadow or I are authorities, just observers who now quote each other - a pattern you are taught seemingly somewhere in your life ;) .

[iWriteStuff]

You go ahead and start quoting shadow, and who knows but you two will be the next prophets in the hierarchy chosen by God?

Hi Jared

So the unfortunate thing about polls is no one can see how individuals voted.

I voted "kinda". I think there's a lot of truth in her words and a bit of error mixed in.

How did you vote? And why?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

You go ahead and start quoting shadow, and who knows but you two will be the next prophets in the hierarchy chosen by God?

Hi Jared

So the unfortunate thing about polls is no one can see how individuals voted.

I voted "kinda". I think there's a lot of truth in her words and a bit of error mixed in.

How did you vote? And why?

I voted no - as I picked up her books and felt zero spirit in what I read - a perfect doldrum (vs the first 6 chapters only of Visions of Glory where the spirit was sacred and witnessing some beautiful truths to me) - that doesn't mean I'm right she is wrong, what it tells me is that God is a jealous God and whatever she shared, if true or not is for her and possibly others who get what they want most in their box of thinking and possible current level of understanding and trust in others needing to lead them to prepare - not for me.

My point with pointing out the church potentially distancing themselves from her, was just a little vindication of watching active members support someone that may after all be excommunicated or denounced by official authorities. I have never called her a false anything, that is what I believe immature people do, I love her like I do anyone one earth, and trust the voice of God to me for my own family and stewardship over them. I strive to share only what the spirit prompts me to share on this LDSFF, and find myself often standing up against what I see as dominion, false authority from members of the church who feel so confident to put words in other's mouths, words they never said, intent they never put out, etc.. THAT is a false spirit I believe roams in the church with many a members, the spirit of false dominion upon the souls of others - damning them if they don't heed what they know to be true.

How's that for a loaded reply that may require some further reading to get completely?

What do you think? I will need to read through this thread, as I have not, just posted that link.

[campfollower]

Nope, not for a second and I've known her and her family for a very long time.

[AI2.0]

I've not read her books. I'll say that the arguments of those who support her are full of love and charity and the arguments of those who don't are full of judgement and unbelief so it leads me to be biased in her favor. Of course this is speaking in generalities and is my uninformed opinion FWIW

Haha!!! Hilarious

I figured an unbiased opinion would be valued not mocked.... 8-|

But you are not unbiased, you are unaware of your own bias, but it was evident in your post.

[iWriteStuff]

Personal jabs aside, how many JR believers will change their vote if nothing happens this month or next to validate her predictions?