Do you believe Julie?

[brianj]

I'm glad you feel she's helped you, but I sure hope that if she disappoints you, you won't find yourself slipping back into your old ways.

That should not be a concern for you at all. If I remain close to the Holy Ghost then it doesn't matter if Julie Rowe made everything up, had false visions, had real visions but misinterpreted them, or is correct. The Holy Ghost will guide me.

The only thing that I can't accept without actually living it is that I will somehow be able to stay in this house - in an earthquake zone, in an area likely to be buried in volcanic ash, and in an area likely to be submerged in a massive tsunami - and somehow be protected from all of those calamities while my neighbors see their houses collapse, get buried, or get washed away. As I said before, I have believed in a gathering to escape the worst of the tribulations long before I ever heard of LDS NDEs.

[AI2.0]

I'm glad you feel she's helped you, but I sure hope that if she disappoints you, you won't find yourself slipping back into your old ways.

That should not be a concern for you at all. If I remain close to the Holy Ghost then it doesn't matter if Julie Rowe made everything up, had false visions, had real visions but misinterpreted them, or is correct. The Holy Ghost will guide me.

The only thing that I can't accept without actually living it is that I will somehow be able to stay in this house - in an earthquake zone, in an area likely to be buried in volcanic ash, and in an area likely to be submerged in a massive tsunami - and somehow be protected from all of those calamities while my neighbors see their houses collapse, get buried, or get washed away. As I said before, I have believed in a gathering to escape the worst of the tribulations long before I ever heard of LDS NDEs.

So, why do you believe the bolded statement? What LDS scriptures say that you will escape the 'worst of the tribulations'?

I know the tent city crowd of LDS believe this, but as far as I can see, they believe it because Roger Young or Julie Rowe said it. Where in the canon of scripture does it say that the area where you live is going to be buried under volcanic ask and a tsunami? If you tell me you saw it in a dream, and you admit that your dreams are only for you and not others, including your neighbors, why then, would you think your nightmares portend that your neighbors are all going to be destroyed?

Can you see why some of this seems nonsensical?

[francisco.colaco]

If I remain close to the Holy Ghost then it doesn't matter if Julie Rowe made everything up, had false visions, had real visions but misinterpreted them, or is correct. The Holy Ghost will guide me.

The devil does not swing a person in a blow. Most persons are impervious to sudden opinion changes. The devil is smarter: it takes you by a parallel road, with such a small discrepancy of angle, that you do not notice the road is curving very slowly to the left (always to the left). In a couple of weeks or months you are perpendicular to the original road, drawing steadily away from it. And then, as slowly as before, begins the descent.

The new road does never end well. But it is, only at the beginning, almost indistinguishable from the right road, riding alongside it. As the old italian saying goes, «if it is not true, it is nonetheless fortunate» (si non è vero, è ben trovato). At first.

At the end, one is cannon fodder.

I am sure all Pharisees took leaps and bounds to tell people to be faithful to the Messiah. And then the Messiah came and they did not recognise Him; in fact they refused Him and had Him killed. Now, how will Julie Rowe's followers react when a bona fide general authority, one day, classifies those dreams as bollocks? Or when they do not come to pass? All this reminds me of Bishop Koyle and the Relief Mine.

September is almost done. The surest thing that comes to pass at the end of September is the advent of October. I also could vaticine that no earthquake will happen in October, after the Conference, in Utah Valley.

[brianj]

As I said before, I have believed in a gathering to escape the worst of the tribulations long before I ever heard of LDS NDEs.

So, why do you believe the bolded statement? What LDS scriptures say that you will escape the 'worst of the tribulations'?

I know the tent city crowd of LDS believe this, but as far as I can see, they believe it because Roger Young or Julie Rowe said it. Where in the canon of scripture does it say that the area where you live is going to be buried under volcanic ask and a tsunami? If you tell me you saw it in a dream, and you admit that your dreams are only for you and not others, including your neighbors, why then, would you think your nightmares portend that your neighbors are all going to be destroyed?

Can you see why some of this seems nonsensical?

Do I have to limit my answer to the canon of scripture? Because I really don't have a scriptural basis for that belief. The bolded statement came from my own reasoning.

As I have said repeatedly, I recently moved. Almost all of my books are still in boxes somewhere in the garage. So I can't refer you to specific quotes by church leaders, but I will refer you to the book The Coming of the Lord by Gerald Lund. In that book I came across multiple quotes saying that the faithful will suffer, but will escape the worst of the tribulations.
I added this to patterns in scripture. When a society ripens for destruction prophets warn the people. If they don't repent, the faithful are called to depart from the wicked and then tribulations come.
Applying this reasoning further, I considered prophecies of the big cities of the East coast (Boston, New York, DC) being left vacant or destroyed. I asked myself a question, and I will ask you the same question:

When the General Authorities tell us that the Lord has need for the service of all of us, why would He kill thousands of us without warning? Prior to a plague killing everybody in New York, why would He not tell the Saints to go somewhere safe? Prior to a tsunami washing Boston away, why not tell those Saints to get out of town? On the west coast, why not tell the faithful to depart Los Angeles before an earthquake makes survival impossible?

I will also ask you if the Lord cared enough about the Saints at Haun's Mill to tell them to leave, why would He treat modern Saints any differently?

The scope of prophesied destruction on this continent is immense. We have a prophecy from Orson Pratt that manufacturing will cease for a time because of mobs going around destroying and pillaging the land, to the point where even farmers have to flee their lands and leave their fields uncultivated.
Will the farmers surrounding your land be forced to flee from ravaging armies, but you be left to grow crops in peace? I doubt it.
Will your neighbors turn on one another to steal food, even go to the point of cannibalism, but ignore your house? I doubt it.
Will a tsunami wash Boston completely off the map, but somehow spare all the houses faithful Latter-day Saints live in? I doubt it.
Could three wards gather in their meetinghouse and live comfortably while various mobs attack one another all around? I doubt it.

Put simply, the only scenario that seems consistent to the scriptures and likely to me is for the faithful to leave the areas that are being destroyed before that destruction happens.

[francisco.colaco]

Brian J,

I do agree with you there is a canon of scripture and latter day revelations. These have never contradicted those, save at the few parts of the Bible that were mistranslated or outright modified.

This thread is specifically about Julie Rowe. She contradicts revealed latter-day prophecy more than once, but in such subtle details that it only tells me she knows not all of the context to output a credible lie. The devil reveals himself in the details. God's servants must be, when enacting God's words and marking those as such, be spotless.

Were Julie Rowe to write «the willow-like tree seemed not of this earth» or «the willow tree was unlike anything I have seen on Earth» or even «I believe that it was a tree from another planet», that would be acceptable. It is opinion and everyone has a right to an healthy dose of idiocy. She wrote she asked John and John _replied_ the tree was not of this earth. That contradicts 1) Brigham Young's affirmation, in an authorative setting, that the spiritual world is here and that only comprises the inhabitants of this earth, 2) the affirmation of Wilford Woodruff of the count of spirits in the late XIX century in the spirit world --- which is too little for a miriad of planets --- and 3) that only those that minister to this planet are the ones that belong to it --- and there is a reason since this is the very very very unique special planet where Christ has performed the atonement, and there would be no need for faith were we to encounter an extra-terrestrial that shared our beliefs.

There is also that part of seeing children in the spirit world when all spirits, according to Joseph F. Smith, have the young adult form, regardless of the age of death. A small matter.

Both contradictions and more (I refer you to the magnificent work of Onsdag, to which I have little to add and much to learn) disqualify the _message_ of Julie Rowe --- It could be a BCND (Bad Chili Night Dream), with a symphony of wind and methane instruments, non inspired but taken as such.

But there is the strange evolutionary story of Julie Rowe --- sporadic dreams in 2009, an NDE in 2012 --- and the simony and priestcraft: energy quackery and of course the revenue of the book and of the speaking assignments. The latter is not a show stopper for me, but the former certainly and emphatically is! And there is the not so little story of the email threats to her critics, properly related in this forum. That disqualifies the _person_ of Julie Rowe. She may be a willing agnostic taking a dime and a following out of gullible Latter Day Saints or a donkey that pretends to be a stallion. One or the other. Or both. Not none.

I assert that I have more respect for the intelligence of Mrs Rowe than for the brain functions of any person of the the flock she is raising. She will not end well, sooner or later, like Denver Snuffer did not. And when syncophantic people follow a monkey that will behave like monkeys.