Technological and Scientific Limit before the Second Coming?

[Sunain]

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel prophesied that in the last days “knowledge shall be increased”. We have certainly seen that more in the last 200 years than in any time in human history. Daily we are learning new things.

At the rate of technological innovation and scientific discoveries, in the not to distance future, we will be approaching a turning point in human development where we will begin to start being almost 'Godlike'.

Genetic Engineering of Humans, Anti-matter, Lightspeed/Warp Drive, Human Mission to Mars (visiting other worlds), are all being researched or worked on currently. All of these technologies will serious change life on this Earth if they are achieved. It is unlikely though that any of these technologies will be in use before the Second Coming though, or could they?

Is there a limit God has placed on Humans as to what technology and knowledge we can learn about or use in morality?

Are there other technologies you would considered 'off-limits' to mortals or won't be achieved before the second coming?

[Teancum]

At the rate of technological innovation and scientific discoveries, in the not to distance future, we will be approaching a turning point in human development where we will begin to start being almost 'Godlike'.

Genetic Engineering of Humans, Anti-matter, Lightspeed/Warp Drive, Human Mission to Mars (visiting other worlds), are all being researched or worked on currently. All of these technologies will serious change life on this Earth if they are achieved. It is unlikely though that any of these technologies will be in use before the Second Coming though, or could they?

Is there a limit God has placed on Humans as to what technology and knowledge we can learn about or use in morality?

Are there other technologies you would considered 'off-limits' to mortals or won't be achieved before the second coming?

Yeah, I see where you are going with this thought, but you will have to realize that we have already reached our apex or peak of accomplishments as a nation (speaking for the whole world). Because of what the Lord has said, we can only reach second best until he comes again - perhaps for the entire temporal earths existence.
Ether 1:43

43 And there will I bless thee and thy seed, and raise up unto me of thy seed, and of the seed of thy brother, and they who shall go with thee, a great nation. And there shall be none greater than the nation which I will raise up unto me of thy seed, upon all the face of the earth. And thus I will do unto thee because this long time ye have cried unto me.

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

8 And he that will contend against the word of the Lord, let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ; for I am he who speaketh.

13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.

It looks to me as though individually we may recieve great technology and knowledge, but to spread that across a nation or the world, the conditions of peoples' hearts will make that not happen (unbelief and heardness of heart).

This can already be seen from a short historical review of inventions and technology, in energy, health, metallurgy, foods, etc, that have been suppressed and lost. Why? Because of a veil of unbelief. Mainly, we cannot believe that there is enough and to spare for all of god"s children(whatever the items or resource are that we are considering).

On the other hand, if you are talking about Zion, then all bets are off, as there will be unrestrained knowledge poured out upon it's inhabitants.

[JohnnyL]

I vote it will be limited. The limits are already extremely high.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I see it a bit differently as I've pondered upon technology, which we love to study as a couple and family being that we home school and often do family class discussions on science, technology, and such.

As I've pondered it, I see it as follows:

A merciful God loves his wayward children on this earth so much so, that as we've watched documentaries about discoveries being made, we have had powerful spiritual promptings suggesting that God will continue to allow more of his creations
(ie. planets, other beings on other planets communicating with them) to be discovered and understood as his final tender mercies of beckoning those who do not yet believe to believe in him - the designer of all the beautiful things he is allowing us to discover and see more and more of.

So technology will increase "gathering" if you will the last few who will change or believe, before the most wicked would use the technology for ill purposes inspired by the false God of this world.

Spiritual technology however as I call it, will never cease for those who are righteous, and will be exclusively had in righteous places where God has allowed those whose hearts are right before him to survive the coming prophesied events.

[AGalagaChiasmus]

I think the cracking of the brain's memory and sensory interpretation protocols poses a large dilemma in a Gospel light.

I think research into true "mind control" would be a breach in the Lord's purposes in constructing bodies for us. The body, IMO, acts as a filter to spiritual light (Paul called it looking through the glass darkly [1 Corinthians 13:12], similar statements made in more NDE accounts than I can count).

What if science were to find the interface between spirit and body? Or perhaps could tamper with alpha and beta brainwaves in a way to control a third person's body. Store false memories, influence behavior, etc., without consent of the target person.

Of course, should it happen, I think the answer would be non-accountability on the other side of the veil for those actions caused by technological invasions. But it's still a very grey area (pun intended) for me.

[Sunain]

I think the cracking of the brain's memory and sensory interpretation protocols poses a large dilemma in a Gospel light.

https://www.ted.com/talks/greg_gage_how ... your_brain

They've already begun researching this too. Mind you it is mainly for rehabilitation purposes but you can see it could also be used for 'nefarious' purposes too, as it is with all technology.

Yeah, I see where you are going with this thought, but you will have to realize that we have already reached our apex or peak of accomplishments as a nation (speaking for the whole world). Because of what the Lord has said, we can only reach second best until he comes again - perhaps for the entire temporal earths existence.

We are still constantly learning new things each day, so were not even close to an apex.

I do believe though there is a point, that actually might line up with the second coming timeline uncoincidentally, where God goes, 'Okay as mortals this technology and use of this knowledge is off-limits'. Genetic Engineering (Eugenics) and human cloning I think are a no-no. Stem cell research and growing replacement parts for transplants though I think is within acceptable limits.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 122312.htm

[BrotherOfMahonri]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39116&p=618502#p618490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
^^^ now that's some deep thinking if you ask me...

Sounds similar to this interesting thread about Satan literally trying to open the portal to the lower kingdom of hell through the hadron collider known as CERN - pretty scary satanic stuff covered up with "science" if you ask me... I agree in that the human body could most likely be satan's most studied topic whilst he was wandering to and from on this earth, as I have had personal witness, and seen others where innocent children are under the influence (not temptation) of Satan's power and control way too much, which of course lends to the sins being upon the heads of the parents. Agency an the use thereof I feel will be a huge part in our final judgements - and wo wo wo unto those who deprived the agency of children because of their willful sinning not in ignorance thus giving free reign of the devils upon children under their stewardship.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sunain]

Sounds similar to this interesting thread about Satan literally trying to open the portal to the lower kingdom of hell through the hadron collider known as CERN - pretty scary satanic stuff covered up with "science" if you ask me... I agree in that the human body could most likely be satan's most studied topic whilst he was wandering to and from on this earth, as I have had personal witness, and seen others where innocent children are under the influence (not temptation) of Satan's power and control way too much, which of course lends to the sins being upon the heads of the parents. Agency an the use thereof I feel will be a huge part in our final judgements - and wo wo wo unto those who deprived the agency of children because of their willful sinning not in ignorance thus giving free reign of the devils upon children under their stewardship.

Technology and learning to gain knowledge isn't inherently bad but how that knowledge can be used in evil ways is. Like you stated, upcoming technologies can really be perverted for Satan's will to an extent I think the Lord won't allow. CERN and the LHC help us learn about particle physics and the universe which is a good thing. Like splitting the atom, the knowledge was used for nuclear power generators and nuclear bombs, it basically comes down to a Good use vs an Evil use.

Some may ask, why were nuclear weapons allowed to be created? Why didn't the Lord intervene then? How I see it is we needed the electrical power from nuclear generators to power the information revolution. The Internet has helped spread the gospel and genealogical research but it needs a lot of power. Nuclear weapons on the other hand, while destructive, aren't worldwide devastation weapons but are highly localized, unless used on mass which has yet to happen but has always been thought of as the catalyst for the second coming. Upcoming weapons technology though would make nuclear weapons seem like cherry bombs and therefore I think the Lord will have intervened by then.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

[abelchirino]

Well we know that Satan proposed a plan in which agency is, shall we say, temporarily turned off for the sake of "not losing one soul". I always wondered how that could be done. It seemed more like an impossibility being that we are all intelligences, that intelligences are eternal and that intelligences are independent to act for themselves. Free agency seems to be in our eternal nature something that I doubt, or at least don't think, it can be turned off.

I know that elites have obsessed about being able to do this for centuries, the Greek philosophers being one clear example of that. Many have focused and written books, throughout history about how rulers can manipulate thought through their actions and decisions, Niccolo Machiavelli being one of them. Recently (100 to 200 years), as science has expanded and grown they are able to control someone's mind. A Spanish scholar working for Yale University, back in the 30's, managed to implant a chip in the brain of a bull and was able to control the bull completely. There's videos of that. Imagine what they can do now. Imagine what they can do now with chemicals or TV. I think this has opened the door for Satan to try to implement his plan in opposition to God. So I believe that this part of the reason God will put an end to the world. I don't know if Satan will accomplish his goal but if he does, it may be just momentarily. Or he may think that he is about to do it and just before he does, God will intervene and put an end.

[oxbloodangel]

I'm keeping my eye on VR tech, as humans tend to believe you can do anything in a simulation and it's no sin, despite the knowledge of mirror neurons that basically says simulation impacts the brain the same way as reality does. In other words, we are already in a simulation, so simulations within the simulation count as actions in the way they impact the mind and spirit. Between video games and pornography, hideous acts have been committed on the spirits of men and women participating. VR will further insulate individuals from the reality of spiritual consequences. This will be "allowed" but it will exponentially increase wickedness and suffering in the world prior to the Second Coming. In conjunction with this tech, the tech already on the market to zap your brain, either to excite or depress (put yourself to sleep) the brain chemicals, will be a form of mind control, similar to the way drugs are currently used to control brain chemicals and thoughts. In the UK, you can already buy these brain zappers that sit on the forehead like 7 of 9 borgwear, just $200.

As far as the religion of science, which seeks to extend life indefinitely or merge consciousness with machine in a singularity, I'm not at all concerned God will "allow" it. Every great (and good) technology advancement we've been granted has been inspired for God's purposes. He has no purpose in mankind living forever in diseased or half-machine bodies like Cybermen. Just as God interfered in the Garden of Eden, blocking the Tree of Life with a flaming sword, He would interfere before we did anything permanently destructive to human souls. That is my belief.

[Onsdag]

Note: the following article is taken from the Millennial Star, 30 April 1853, Volume 15, Pages 273-276, 289-292. I have only included a small portion of the article, which I feel pertains to the topic at hand. I have seen the article attributed to various members of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, but the original article only has the letter "L." appended to it. Still, it is from an official Church publication and the article rings true and prophetic to me.

The Coming Crisis & How to Meet It

A great and awful crisis is at hand – such a crisis was never known before since the foundation of the world. All nations are looking through the misty future in order to descry, if possible, what is about to happen. Many sermons have been preached, many speeches have been made, and some pamphlets have been published, with the hope of lifting up the veil of the future. Yet none but the servants of God who have the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy, can unfold the mysteries of the future. They can give the trump a certain sound, and their counsel will not be guess work. God will do nothing except He reveal His secrets to His servants and Prophets. God, the Lord God of Israel, will take the control of these great events which are shortly to come to pass. Not a sparrow will fall to the ground without His notice. But His servants will be fully advised to every important event that is to transpire. They will be the heralds of blessings and also of vengeance. For the Lord hath a controversy with all nations, and the hour of recompense is at hand.

But, says the reader, I would like to know of what this crisis is to consist! Who are the contesting parties? Well, reader, if you will be patient and honest-hearted, praying withal, with unceasing diligence and thanksgiving to God, you shall have the keys of such knowledge as all the sectarian priests of Christendom are by no means able to reveal, because they are only revealed to God’s servants, the Prophets.

Perhaps you will be disappointed, if I tell you that the time is coming, and now is, when, not only God, the Highest of all, shall be revealed in spirit and in mighty power, butthe Devil or Satan also, will be revealed in signs and wonders and in mighty deeds! This, reader, is the great key to all the marvelous events that are to transpire shortly upon the earth.

Now just stop right here, and pause, and mark emphatically this key. Then you and I will proceed to unlock the mysteries and to prepare ourselves to the battle. For there will be no neutrals in the approaching controversy. I say again, that God the Highest of all will make bare His arm in the eyes of all nations. And the heavens even will be rent, and the lighting down of His power will be felt by all nations. But this is not all. Satan also will be revealed. He has made some manifestations of his power in different periods of the world, but never before has there been such an array of numbers on his side, never before such a consolidation of armies and rulers, never before has there been such an imposing and overwhelming exhibition of miracles as Satan will shortly make manifest. Don’t suppose for a moment, that I am uttering dark sayings or speaking unadvisedly upon speculation or the strength of mere human opinion. Don’t tell me about Popes and Prelates sitting in the Temple of God as God. One far greater than any Pope or Prelate is soon to be revealed, and he will claim to be worshipped as God. Now, remember, that it is no modern wicked man that is going to claim divine honors. No, it is that old Serpent, the Devil. He it is that will head the opposition against God and His Christ. And he, the son of perdition it is, that will be allowed a much longer chain than heretofore. And such will be the greatness of his power, that it will seem to many that he is entirely loose. He will be so far unshackled and unchained that his power will deceive all nations, even the world. And the elect will barely escape the power of his sorceries, enchantments, and miracles! And even God, Himself, the true God, will contribute to put means and instruments in his way and at hand, for his use, so that he can have a full trial of his strength and cunning, with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish.

It is not to be expected that Satan will carry on his great warfare against Christ and his Saints by means of any one religion exclusively. It is not the Papal or Protestant religion alone that you have need to fear. But the great and abominable Church which you should expect to encounter is Anti-Christ. Whatever exalts and opposes itself to God, that is Anti-Christ, whether it is a civil or religious power. But the most formidable power that will be arrayed against Christ and his Saints in the last days, will consist of the revelations of Satan. These revelations of Satan will come through every medium and channel by which the cunning and power of Satan can be brought to bear against the Saints and their Lord. It is a great mistake to suppose that Satan is altogether a religious personage. No, far from this. He is a politician, a philosopher, an erudite scholar, a linguist, a metaphysician, a military commander, a prince, a god, a necromancer, an enchanter, a diviner, a magician, a sorcerer, a prophet, and (if it were not railing) a clergyman and a liar from the beginning. With these universal endowments, he has never hitherto made a full and grand exhibition of himself, as it remains for him to do. But the Lord, who gave him an opportunity to try is battery upon good old Job, is fully designing to give him sufficient apparatus to deceive all the nations that love not the truth, and have pleasure in unrighteousness. His signs and tokens are as ancient as the apostasy of Cain, and as varied as will suit the secret designs of all ages. Through him men learn how to become “observers of time and seasons”, with great skill and astonishing accuracy. He presides over the arts of astrology, clairvoyance, mesmerism, electro-biology, and all auguries and divinations. Being Prince of the power of the air he understands aeronautic and steam navigation, and he can compose and combine the various elements, through the co-operation of them that believe in him, with far more that human skill. Now don’t doubt what I say concerning this matter, but rather read the history of his skillful exploits and his mighty power, as they are recorded in the Old and New Testaments. Take a Bible and Concordance, (if you have any Faith in the Bible left, in an age when the Bible is perverted beyond all other books), and read attentively for yourselves, and you will there learn that I am telling you the truth.

Now there is a greater destruction coming upon the wicked nations of the earth, than was even experienced by Pharaoh at the Red Sea. But before that destruction can be made manifest, men’s hearts will be hardened, and wickedness will rise to a more over-towering height than many bygone generations have been allowed to witness. God, through his Prophet, will roar out of Zion. His voice will be heard in spite of all the confusion and indignant opposition from many nations. After the testimony of His servants has been proclaimed to all nations, as a witness, then shall the scene of the end come. And great shall be that scene. The Devil in the last stage of desperation, will take such a pre-eminent lead in literature, politics, philosophy, and religion; in wars, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, thunderings and lightnings, setting cities in conflagration, etc., that mighty kings and powerful nations will be constrained to fall down and worship him. And they will marvel at his great power, and wonder after him with great astonishment. For his signs and wonders will be among all nations. Men will be raised for the express purpose of furthering the designs and marvelous works of the devil. Every description of curious and mysterious arts that penetrate beyond the common pale of human sagacity and wisdom, will be studied and practiced beyond what has been known by mere mortals. The great capabilities of the elements of fire, air, earth, and water, will be brought into requisition by cunning men under the superior cunning of the prince and the God of this world. And, inflated with the knowledge of these wonderful arts and powers, men will become boasters, heady, high-minded, proud, and despisers of that which is good. But the God who is above all, and over all, and who ruleth in the armies of heaven, and amongst the inhabitants of the earth, will not be a silent observer of such spiritual wickedness in high places, and among the rulers of the darkness of this world. For the master spirits of wickedness of all ages, and of worlds visible and invisible, will be arrayed in the rebellious ranks before the closing scene shall transpire. Now just at this time, God will come out of His hiding place and vex the nations in his hot displeasure. By the mouth of His Prophet He will rebuke strong nations afar off, notwithstanding their strong armies and great miracles, and cunning arts. His servant, the Prophet, in Zion will have a marvelous boldness to rebuke them, and to lay down before them in plainness and inflexible firmness the law of the Lord. As Moses laid down the law to Pharaoh, and then continued to multiply evils and judgments until he made an utter end of Pharaoh and the Egyptians, even so will the living God prescribe the line of conduct to be pursued, and the penalties of violation, to great and mighty nations, until they rally around the ensign established upon the mountains, and go up to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways, or are utterly overwhelmed in keen anguish and ruin.

The ways of the God of Jacob are easily recognized in these days of general wickedness. It is true, that they are clearly revealed in the Scriptures of truth, and by a living Priesthood of inspired men, yet they have been so long and so grossly perverted by the precepts and opinions of a hireling ministry, that doubts and contentions have sprung up in every land, and the plainest and simplest truths are denied, abrogated, or accounted obsolete. God is not allowed to speak from the heavens by the mouths of Prophets as in former days. Notwithstanding there is much preaching and praying, still there is a virtual acknowledgement among all nations that God, as He was known unto the Patriarchs and Prophets of old, has forsaken the earth. And men are therefore left to discover the way to heaven by the light of nature, or the misty nebulae of a hireling Priesthood. And it is a fact, undeniable, that infidels in the school of nature have more true piety towards the living God than the hireling ministry of Christendom have. Hence priests are doing so much, often unwittingly, to blind the eyes of the people, so that they shall not see the approaching crisis in its true character until the catastrophe is completed, and Great Babylon and all her lofty cities, great wealth, princely merchants, chief captains, and mighty sovereigns, are laid low in one general ruin. Oh ye great and strong nations! ye philosophers and religionists! ye spiritual mediums and ye revelators, sitting upon thrones over great nations! how can you fulfill the prophecies that are so clearly revealed, concerning the destructions of the last days! Ye perhaps marvel that the great men and governors over one hundred and twenty-seven provinces in ancient Babylon, with a brave monarch at their head, should have been such firm believers in the astrologers, magicians, and interpreters of dreams, in their days! But marvel not, for when the greater power of the like class of persons, under the direction of Satan, shall be brought to bear in your own day, the delusion will be so much stronger that Princes, Presidents, Governors, and chief Captains, will be constrained to bow to it. Their credulity will be taxed beyond the power of resistance. The workers of these mysterious and supernatural arts will bring to their aid both natural and supernatural causes that will challenge and defy disputation. The senses and judgment of men cannot withstand such imperative facts as will arrest their observations. For it cannot be denied that facts and truths will constitute such a measure of the ingredients of these mysterious and wonderful arts as to give them an irresistible strength of conviction to those who are unenlightened by the Spirit of God. And so far as facts and truth are mingled, it must also be acknowledged that God, the true and living Sovereign of Heaven and Earth, will contribute to produce the delusion. He has said that “He will send them strong delusions that they might believe a lie.” He gives his reason and apology for acting after this stranger mannerþbecause, knowing the truth, they do not love it unadulterated. And knowing God, they do not choose to glorify Him as God. Therefore their foolish hearts become darkened, and God suffers Satan to compound and mix up truth and error in such proportions as to be captivating and strongly delusive. As a snare, this composition will be ingeniously mixed and administered to all nations, by skillful and practiced hands.

And who shall be able to withstand? Do you think that your great sagacity and the compass of your profound, philosophical turn of mind will enable you to detect the error and delusion of these arts? Oh, man, this is a vain hope. You will not be competent to detect the delusion. God Himself will allow Satan to ply your scrutinizing eye with powers and sophistications far beyond your capacity to detect. Do you say then, I will stand aloof from investigation, I will shun all acquaintance with these mysterious workings, in order that I may not be carried away with their delusive influence. Vain hope. Oh, man, you cannot be neutral. You must choose your side and put on your armor. Those that come not up to the help of the Lord in the day of battle, will be sorely cursed. The captive Hebrew Daniel stood up boldly against all the governors and whole realm of Babylon with their monarch at their head. Daniel readily acknowledged that it was not from any wisdom in him, above other men, that he could surpass the astrologers and magicians. But holding intercourse with the God of heaven, he became endowed with supernatural comprehension that effectually shielded him against supernatural delusion. Thereby he escaped the snare that entwined around the great statesmen and governors of that immense empire of Babylon.Thereby, those who take refuge in the name of the Lord and in immediate revelation from heaven, will be safe, and no others. He that is not for God and the principle of immediate revelation, will inevitably be ensnared, overcome, and destroyed. Because he that is not for Him must be against Him. No man in any age was ever for God, that did not hold intercourse with Him personally, and receive for himself the revelations of his will. The rock of revelation, by which Peter knew Jesus Christ, is the only basis upon which any man can escape the strong delusion which God will send among the nations through Satan and his mediums and coadjutors. Reader, if you live long, you will be compelled to take a side for God or for Satan. Satan was allowed to try a compulsory process upon as good a man as Job. The whirlwind and tempestuous elements, with disease and death, were put into Satan’s hand that he might compel Job to abandon his integrity. Had not Job possessed the key to revelation from God, he would have been compelled to have made peace with Satan, and forsaken the Lord. His wife urged him to do soþsays she, “Curse God and die”; or in other words, take the side of Satan against God.

Now, reader, if you have ships of precious merchandise, floating at sea, the time is fast coming when Satan will destroy those ships, unless you bow down to his power and become a co-operator with him. And if you do bow down to him, to work wickedness and say, no eye seeth meþthen God will destroy those ships and you too, and peradventure He will destroy your family also, and make a clean end of you, and blot out your name under heaven. Your beautiful mansion and flourishing family still have to be consecrated to God or to Satan, whichever you may choose. The controversy is begun and the war will never end till the victory is complete and universal, and there shall not be found so much as a dog to move his tongue against the Lord, and the immediate revelations of His will. Your being a minister of some Church, will not serve as the last screen for you against the hot indignation of God, unless you have the law and the testimony of the true and living God made known to you personally. For the time has come that God will write His law upon every man’s heart, that will receive it, not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. And against him that hath this law, the gates of hell never have prevailed and never will prevail. Heaven and earth shall pass away before a jot of this law shall be made to succumb to wicked men or devils. The heavens have been shaken once when angels rebelled, and they are destined to another shaking even with the earth. Do you say you don’t need any more revelation from God.Then the Devil will be allowed to give you some which you don’t need. And by the time that he has revealed himself to you, and buffeted you, and trained you under his rigorous discipline to fight in this awful crisis against the heavens, peradventure you will not then feel so rich and increased in goods, but that you can take a little counsel from the Lord, and feel a little of your extreme poverty and destitution.

[abelchirino]

Wow! Extreme and sobering article...

[Sunain]

Saw a rather interesting PBS Nova show this week about manipulating memories or as they call it, hacking human memories. This brings up some rather interesting ethical problems though. Some of the benefits are quite obviously very good such as treating Post-Traumatic Stress Disorders (PTSD) or phobias but like all things there are darker sides to it. People would be able to edit memories and eventually create completely false ones or even use it as a torture method. This may seem like sci-fi but it seems scientists aren't that far off.

My first take on this from a Christian perspective left me thinking of these questions:
What would memory erasure do to the repentance process?
If you could just completely forget that you sinned, would there be any actual learning from the mistake or penance if you could simply go and get that memory erased?
Would churches make it a policy for Christians to not remove sinful memories or would they actually promote it as part of lets say the final step in the repentance process?
Would forgetting a sinful memory cause people to repeat the sin because they couldn't remember doing it the first time?
Is this another scientific and technological limit that won't be perfected before the Second Coming?

Full episode link (USA only): http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/memory-hackers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What if science were to find the interface between spirit and body? Or perhaps could tamper with alpha and beta brainwaves in a way to control a third person's body. Store false memories, influence behavior, etc., without consent of the target person.

I recently saw a Ted video on this very thing. The research could help people that are paralyzed but once again if could be manipulated to get people to do acts against their will.
https://www.ted.com/talks/greg_gage_how ... anguage=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Teancum]

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel prophesied that in the last days “knowledge shall be increased”. We have certainly seen that more in the last 200 years than in any time in human history. Daily we are learning new things.

At the rate of technological innovation and scientific discoveries, in the not to distance future, we will be approaching a turning point in human development where we will begin to start being almost 'Godlike'.

Genetic Engineering of Humans, Anti-matter, Lightspeed/Warp Drive, Human Mission to Mars (visiting other worlds), are all being researched or worked on currently. All of these technologies will serious change life on this Earth if they are achieved. It is unlikely though that any of these technologies will be in use before the Second Coming though, or could they?

Is there a limit God has placed on Humans as to what technology and knowledge we can learn about or use in morality?

Are there other technologies you would considered 'off-limits' to mortals or won't be achieved before the second coming?

I was reading about Enoch in the Book of Jashur and came across this:
The book of Jashur 4:16-19

16 And all the sons of men departed from the ways of the Lord in those days as they multiplied upon the face of the earth with sons and daughters, and they taught one another their evil practices and they continued sinning against the Lord.

17 And every man made unto himself a god, and they robbed and plundered every man his neighbor as well as his relative, and they corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence.

18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.

19 And the Lord said, I will blot out man that I created from the face of the earth, yea from man to the birds of the air, together with cattle and beasts that are in the field for I repent that I made them.

I don't know but it sounds like DNA hacking, head transplants, jurasic park, etc.... If God wiped out the whole earth with a flood because of these same things, I would bet he sends fire this next time.

[capctr]

"17 And every man made unto himself a god, and they robbed and plundered every man his neighbor as well as his relative, and they corrupted the earth, and the earth was filled with violence."

So they had iPhones? JK-but seriously, as much as we walk around looking down at the little screen in our hands...seems like idol worship to me-more than a little. Yet knowing that, why does it seem like such a needed part of life? They sure weren't just ten years ago!

[shotx]

I don't think God will ever place a punitive limit on mortal technological innovation. I think a certain scripture from Doctrine & Convenants applies here...

And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

Innovation is the result of things like curiosity, study, labor, and education - all positive and uplifting traits in their own right.

A scientist working on new technology might be a militant, anti-religious atheist. But, he/she is still a child of God and can still hold those positive, divine characteristics. Utilizing and developing those characteristics will still be rewarded by a loving Father, according to His divine system of natural consequences described in D&C. Thus a brilliant (albeit faithless) scientist can achieve great success and innovation, even though we might judge them more harshly on a spiritual level.

In my view, the only thing that could or would stop innovation all together is if society ceased learning and laboring to that end. At that point, we'd no longer be following a certain law, thus the natural blessings would cease. In today's world, there are definitely a lot of people who fit Paul's description ("Ever learning," but never knowing truth), but that doesn't automatically invalidate their ability to use other God-given abilities for good.

I'm excited about what the future might hold. Even the more controversial areas like cloning hold very little concern for me.

The one thing that we've never been able to touch is the measurement and manipulation of spiritual matter. That seems to be permanently off limits as a result of our mortal state. As a result, true "immortality" will never be achieved by man. I think, given enough time, we could find ways to extend life far beyond today's limits, and achieve something close to technical immortality. But, the true state of perfection and glory - an immortal union of spirit and physical matter - is God's alone to dictate for the time being.

[capctr]

"For the time being?"
That doesn't sound ominous at all.

[shotx]

"For the time being?"
That doesn't sound ominous at all.

God already promised that others could eventually have all the same knowledge and power He does. Just not yet.

[Michelle]

Bumping this.

Thanks Sunain for the link.

The quote about the coming crisis is a must read!!

[onefour1]

The devil tries to imitate God but frankly he doesn't have the power and will never have the power to do what God does. Nor will his followers.

Doctrine and Covenants 121:36
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

[BeNotDeceived]

"For the time being?"
That doesn't sound ominous at all.

God already promised that others could eventually have all the same knowledge and power He does. Just not yet.

We could neutralize hurricanes is one example were we are guilty of the sin of omission. Until we take seriously God's command for us to "subdue" the Earth, we will continue to suffer serious consequences, and our lack of progress/control will contribute to our destruction. SKYCOOL & OTEC are two technologies that are barely moving forward, much delaying potential benefits derived from same.

[Michelle]

The devil tries to imitate God but frankly he doesn't have the power and will never have the power to do what God does. Nor will his followers.

Doctrine and Covenants 121:36
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.

I agree that Satan will never have the full power God has, but he does have power.

I think it very interesting to read:

Revelation 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

If you remember this is the miracle that the priests of Baal were unable to make happen when challenged by Elijah. (1 King 18:22-38)Strange that this is the miracle that the second beast chooses to use to deceive men in the last day and cause them to worship the first beast.

He obviously has some power, or better said, has learned something in all those years. In fact, since he is the great deceiver and imitator, I would suggest that his power is, in fact, to learn to copy God's power to deceive men. But, there are obviously limits.

[Sunain]

Test tube babies based off of two gay parents DNA I think is definitely a step too far and interferes with God's Plan of Salvation and the teachings in the The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

[Robin Hood]

I think there are certain bounds beyond which beings in a telestial state are not able to go. This isn't because God won't allow it, but because we won't. Our capacity to expand in knowledge in this dimension is not limitless.

In my house I have various devices that are considered technologically advanced. They are powered by electricity, which is produced by burning something. Technologically speaking, this is rather primitive.
We burn oil, coal and gas to power our technology. There are alternatives of course, but nuclear power again requires a reaction. Even solar power requires a burning sun.
So, although we are currently able to do a lot with what we have, our telestial state dictates that our energy source is and remains limited. There is only so much we can do through combustion.

[Teancum]

I think there are certain bounds beyond which beings in a telestial state are not able to go. This isn't because God won't allow it, but because we won't. Our capacity to expand in knowledge in this dimension is not limitless.

In my house I have various devices that are considered technologically advanced. They are powered by electricity, which is produced by burning something. Technologically speaking, this is rather primitive.
We burn oil, coal and gas to power our technology. There are alternatives of course, but nuclear power again requires a reaction. Even solar power requires a burning sun.
So, although we are currently able to do a lot with what we have, our telestial state dictates that our energy source is and remains limited. There is only so much we can do through combustion.

Technology is repressed by man-made governments and coalitions in order to create an artificial shortage which they can then use to control the population (i.e. become more wealthy than others). The knowledge and availability of advanced technology have always been accessible since the days of Adam (well at least Enoch anyway).

When we are taught that things are impossible, we cannot come to believe otherwise without a great paradigm shift. Doesn't God repeatedly say that to them that believe ALL things are possible, and with God ALL things are possible? Our schooling and society teach us to be good little cogs in the clock-work of mammon's economic machine. We need to unlearn what we have learned.

Have a look at what has been achieved in past history, only to be buried and squashed through powers that be.
You might find some of the things mentioned stretch your understanding of whats possible. But the author of it is in your neck of the woods, and you can chit-chat with him about it.
http://free-energy-info.co.uk/