Visions and Dreams w/Poll

[MR. T]

President Heber C. Kimball on Signs of the Times, quoted by J. Golden Kimball in General Conference:

"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage. An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events. All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible. Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. ... The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews."


"After a while the gentiles will gather in Salt Lake City by the thousands, and this will be among the wicked cities of the world."
1. SLC Gay parade among Biggest in country
http://www.visitsaltlake.com/blog/post/ ... ends/8222/
2. Utah named a top Ponzi state — again
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/5209 ... d.html.csp
3. Utah drops No. 1 ranking — as consumer-fraud capital
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6952 ... tml?pg=all


"A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the results will be financial bondage."
1. Utah stays No. 1 — in bankruptcies
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/5950 ... tml?pg=all
2. Utah Foreclosures Stepped Up, Moved Up State Rank to 5th
http://www.bankforeclosuressale.com/wp/ ... -to-fifth/

"An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth, to search out the righteous and, warn the wicked of coming events."
Total missionaries in 1960 = 5,000
Total missionaries in 2014 = 85,000


"All kinds of religions will be started, and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect, if such a thing were possible."
A long list of “all kinds’ of New Religious movements can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... _movements

"Persecution comes next, and all Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do."
Buckle up!!!

"The judgements of God will be poured out upon the wicked, to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home; or in other words, the Gospel will be taken from the gentiles, and later on will be carried to the Jews."

[A Random Phrase]

An interesting thing about so many people voting for a 1-3 year timeline is that's the same thing I've been hearing for the past 10 years. I suppose eventually they will finally not be wrong.

:)) No doubt.

[A Random Phrase]

they get to be right

I love this part. (And ain't it the truth?)

[Sirocco]

they get to be right

I love this part. (And ain't it the truth?)

Remains to see if they ever get to be right (in the literal, cannot be proven wrong sense of the word).

[A Random Phrase]

they get to be right

I love this part. (And ain't it the truth?)

Remains to see if they ever get to be right (in the literal, cannot be proven wrong sense of the word).

My "ain't it the truth" comment was referring to people wanting to be right. (Just in case there was a misunderstanding there.)

[diligently seeking]

:-ss

Does anyone have any dreams and/or visions they would like to discuss?

I saw a very large city crumble to the ground in a dream the other night.... I was shown this twice. A few years back before I ever even knew that there would be places designated for refuge up in the mountains--in a vivid very clear dream I came out of a canyon smudged & dirty and found the valley earthquake torn.... have had a few others the past few years. I remember asking a stake president friend in casual conversation about his knowledge on the second coming he referred to another stakete president friend of his who said that he has been having reoccurring dreams about flying over Utah County and seeing tents everywhere--he called it his tent city dream... floods, plauge, earthquakes, destructions , mountain refuge, ,Christ, millenial asignment etc I have had dreams about in the last few years. Joel 2:28 has and Is being fulfiled. God bless us all to be ever vigilant in stripping Babylon from our lives. may we all see the great need to put off the natural man & live and pray with great fervency to be sanctified and purified through the Atonement of Christ....

[Sirocco]

My "ain't it the truth" comment was referring to people wanting to be right. (Just in case there was a misunderstanding there.)

oooh I know

[Rose Garden]

:-ss

Does anyone have any dreams and/or visions they would like to discuss?

I saw a very large city crumble to the ground in a dream the other night.... I was shown this twice. A few years back before I ever even knew that there would be places designated for refuge up in the mountains--in a vivid very clear dream I came out of a canyon smudged & dirty and found the valley earthquake torn.... have had a few others the past few years. I remember asking a stake president friend in casual conversation about his knowledge on the second coming he referred to another stakete president friend of his who said that he has been having reoccurring dreams about flying over Utah County and seeing tents everywhere--he called it his tent city dream... floods, plauge, earthquakes, destructions , mountain refuge, ,Christ, millenial asignment etc I have had dreams about in the last few years. Joel 2:28 has and Is being fulfiled. God bless us all to be ever vigilant in stripping Babylon from our lives. may we all see the great need to put off the natural man & live and pray with great fervency to be sanctified and purified through the Atonement of Christ....

28 ¶And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

[Syn]

[christian.a]

Let's break down this one guys...if you aren't familiar with Iohani Wolfgramm, I want your thoughts on him. He used to be a patriarch. He had some insights on last days events. Red high liter words will be my commentary.



The Vision and Warnings of Iohani Wolfgramm
The great Tongan Patriarch, Iohani Wolfgramm was a humble man who was beloved by the people of Tonga. He served 8 full time missions to Tonga and once stated that he had visited the huts or doors of every person in Tonga, even the King and Queen. Tonga is now predominately Mormon and some of that success is due the the efforts of the Lord working through Iohani.

There are documented incidences where Iohani even raised two people from the dead; one of these being his daughter. The miracle of her healing is referenced by Elder Dallin Oakes, in the June 2001 Ensign.

Someone who was a close friend of Brother Wolfgramm's recounted an experience that she had had around 1989, with Brother Wolfgramm. It was a dream of the cleansing of America.

”A few years ago, I met an elderly lady. She had come to hear me speak and to see if I had the right spirit about me. After she felt that she could trust me, she invited me to her house to show me a few interesting things. Her late husband had worked for the church and had been the head of a unique historical church documents that were not available to the public. After his death, his wife was asked to help finish some of his work. She was assigned one of the apostles to help her. She had the same access to those same documents and allowed me to read through them. I visited her multiple times to read and discuss the documents. On one of those visits, she told me an interesting story about Patriarch Wolfgramm. She was acquainted with the patriarch, and during a serious illness somewhere around the year 1989, she asked him to give her a blessing. In the blessing, he told her that she would recover and yet have a great work to do. He foretold other things as well, which prompted some questions in her mind about the future. So, after the blessing, she began asking him to clarify some of the things he said in the blessing.

He said in the last year of the second term of President Bush, the U.S. economy would collapse, which in turn would cause a series of events, including the invasion of foreign troops on U.S. soil.”

This lady then commented to the patriarch that it must mean that President Bush would be re-elected. Patriarch Wolfgramm then replied that it wasn't that Pres. Bush, but that it was the son of Pres. Bush who would become president that he was referring to.

Here are a few salient points that he mentioned:

a. The big economic collapse which leads to chaos will occur in the last year of the 2nd term of the son of George Bush who will become president.

2008 was George Bush Jr's last year of his second term of his presidency. What happened in 2008? The housing market collapse. September 29th, 2008 holds the record for the third biggest stock market collapse in U.S. History. If I remember correctly he did give this prophetic warning before George Bush Sr. was in office. Isn't this fulfilled to the letter?


b. There will be a great drought at about this same time all over the country.

Not too much on this, other than I've heard California is going through a major drought right now? Does anyone else have anything to add?


c. Many in the Church will become unrighteous and apostatize.

Ah, don't we see that happening as we speak? So many are leaving the church because they feel the church doesn't conform to their beliefs. The most recent to make the news was a group of 100 to publicly announce their resign meant to the church (Salt Lake City). Also movements like ordain women aren't helping.


d. There will be a nuclear bomb or bombs go off in Northern Utah that will have an effect as far south as the Salt Lake Valley.

To the best of my knowledge, no LDS General authority has ever mentioned specifically a nuclear bomb would go off in Utah, but it makes sense. In the midst of a George Albert Smith prophesied invasion, hill Air Force base would be a prime target. Troops coming in would gain air superiority. Does anyone have further thoughts on this?


e. Hundreds of millions of foreign troops will invade America.

George Albert Smith had a vision of Russian troops in admit the U.S. Not just him, but many others, including the prophet mentioned above have had dreams and visions of a U.S. invasion.


f. The main foreign force in the Utah area will be Chinese or Chinese-looking troops mixed with Latin American troops.

This is visionary item in his visions that have not been talked about by any LDS General authority (to my knowledge) but from people who have had dreams and visions, they too have seen Chinese looking troops as well as Russian looking troops.


g. Great upheavals will occur all over. In the Wasatch front area, a tremendous earthquake will occur. The mountains and valleys will be rearranged.

We already know that us utahns are in for it, this next earthquake will be somewhere around an 8.0 or 9.0. It's just a matter of time. With each day, our odds of having an earthquake escalates. We are overdue.


h. The righteous will be spared while the unrighteous will be cleansed from the land by earthquake, flood and plague.

Not too much to say about this one. We hear about it all the time from the scriptures and General Conference. The righteous are the ones who will come out okay.


i. The rocky mountain area will then become a sacred, fruitful place where the righteous will gather.

The Rocky Mountains has been a place prepared for the saints. In John Taylor's vision, he saw women in the midst of the tribulations trekking across the U.S. On foot to get to the "mountains" Whether he meant the rockies or not is pure speculation, but the rookies are and will be a place of refuge.

[Matchmaker]

IMO Jeb Bush will be our next President. By the time his second term comes around, many of these prophecies could have taken place.

[christian.a]

IMHO people are done with the bushes. I don't think Jeb would every become president at this point.

[freedomforall]

Speaking of dreams:

I posted this a long time ago, but now there is a pretty much different audience.

A little humor. I wrote this at a time when I was feeling down (a few revisions since). And I was pondering what glory I might get after death. Then I started to laugh...this is why:

A man, of whom, was once pronounced dead is miraculously revived by the doctors laboring over him. After recovering, as he positions himself upright in his hospital bed he shakes his head over and over without a spoken word.

His visiting wife, seeing him in a state of dismay, asks him, “What’s the matter? Why are you shaking your head?”

The man once again shakes his head and then replies, “when I was out of my body I saw some really strange, rather inexpressible sights seemingly beyond reason.”

“Tell me, what was it you saw” she asked curiously?

“Well it's like this, as I was sitting at a large office type table in a spacious, brightly lit room a guide all dressed in white came into the room and beckoned me to walk with him. A short distance away from the door was a trail head with three paths leading away from it. He took me on a tour along the path on the left to show me something.

“What did he show you" she asked.

“Well, after we walked for a while the scene changed instantly and we came upon the Telestial world and once there, I was stunned to see beautiful, rich, green country spread out for a great distance with massive trees and thick shrubs of every kind. And everywhere I looked huge, wondrous mansions dotted the land. I thought it was so beautiful and I just knew the other Kingdoms would be so much more greater. Then, all of a sudden we were in front of a kiosk holding a sign that read:“Blessed Are The Pure In Heart”

The before I could comprehend what happened we were whisked to the beginning of the central path. We then we went to the Terrestrial world in a flash. Once there I noticed the scenery wasn’t as beautiful. The trees were smaller, not as plentiful and were, well, kind of ugly. And as I glanced around, instead of mansions, there were large, plain houses in different shades of beige, white and brown. I thought there was some kind of mistake, because it wasn’t at all like I imagined it to be. Then the guide and I were whisked away to another kiosk. It read:“Blessed Are The Peacemakers”

We were quickly at the third path on the right. Just as swift entering the Celestial world, I thought that things just had to get better. I tell you my heart sank while staring at the county side. The trees, shrubs and grass were brownish in color with leaves almost withered away. And instead of massive homes, there were small, cardboard like huts with tree branches for roofs scattered throughout the land. I asked the guide why the Telestial world was so beautiful and the Celestial world was so dingy. He made a swift movement of his arm and we were once again in front of a kiosk that read:

“Blessed Are The Poor, for they shall inherit the earth.”

Maybe it's all true!

[Silver Pie]

Opinion: When will last days events start to snowball?

My answer is that the events have already started to snowball, so those who voted for sooner than later were probably right.

[BeNotDeceived]

Does anyone have any dreams and/or visions they would like to discuss?

I posted about a weird dream about a week ago.

Theoretically we began 7 years of prosperity last April, but I don’t consider that a snowballing, but rather a final warning.

The timing blends in so only those properly attuned will see it, with 2024 being an election year with heightened tensions towards fullfiling the Hancock Prophecy.

[bradfordjames8]

This is a narrow question. What makes you think that the end times events are not snowballing already? The scriptures do not give us a road map of all the minute factors that will be part of these events. Instead the scriptures give us a high level overview.

So. I would argue that the events are already in full swing, and have been since the dawn of the restoration.

We don't know everything that's going to go on. The Lord has given us a high-level overview in order to assure that we can gauge our personal righteousness as that time comes. He did not give us a calendar. And the proliferation of Non-stop last days countdowns over the last century that have proven to be wrong is evidence of this.

And this foolish obsession with the non-prophetic dreams of anyone who has a computer and access to a Blog is dangerous. There is in the church a very real subculture and idolatry of false visions.

I have long been fascinated by people's obsessive fawning over end time events. I have in my possession the papers of my great-grandfather. He had pages and pages of notes and copies of other people's dreams and visions of the last days. Nearly every single one of them was a variant of the same stuff we see now. the rhetoric was the same. They predicted the end in 1954, 1975, 1985 1989, 1990...They obsessively talked about last days events and who the davidic servant was. And all of these people are dead now. None of their predictions came true.

The same is true for what we read now. Books like visions of glory and quacks like Julie Rowe and others are all false. These apocryphal apocalyptic writings are just that. They are a curiosity But ultimately they are not what the Lord wants us to have. What the Lord wants is to have is in the scriptures already. And if you are looking outside of the scriptures for some kind of confirmation or theory on last days events and you are a sign Seeker and should reconsider your course.

[gardener4life]

It's hard to know if this or other sources are inspired.

It's in the scriptures that before the end, ALL the tribes of the Earth shall mourn, the entire world will be in commotion, etc and so on.

When people say the Church will apostatize they should be careful to say many members will apostatize and not the leaders. The Lord will keep the Leadership intact and has promised to do so, and to help those that stay in Zion. But there are separatists and dissenters. This is the pattern in the Book of Mormon ALL through out the Book of Mormon and I would point you out to it. Amlici for example tried to be King, then when he couldn't his people did an uprising and also joined with the Lamanites. (How did the Lamanites know to arrive at just that time, except if they'd been in communication from the beginning?) There are many instances where when you read a war chapter you can read about dissenters separating from the Nephites only a few years earlier going over there to stir them up. (The Lamanites were victims of a type of anti-mormon lie structure and were being used because of their hate.) You read in other places to of dissenters and separatists, always claiming that they are the real leaders, and you see a common Laman and Lemuel attitude and teaching that the right to the Church really belongs to them because Nephi has fallen. Joseph Smith is a fallen prophet, BY is a fallen prophet...sound familiar? These types of arguments have always been trying to pull people away from the church leaders and main body of Zion. What you can see is a common group of dissenters from the very beginning in both the Book of Mormon and with Joseph Smith's era always claiming the leaders are falling away, we should be the leaders instead...join us and leave Zion. But you can see this a very constant never ending cry to pull people out. It happened in the days of Joseph Smith as early as Kirtland and has continued from false prophets (and false people like unto a false Messiah) even unto this very day.

They also forget Jesus calls his apostles, they don't call him instead. Thus, the leaders will stay true but it's up to the rank and file members to stay true.

Will they stay true?

I worry about this because there's been a surge of vast numbers of Korihors and Sherem types trying to mix in among the church. Some of them even claim they are members on chat boards like this one but actually aren't, and are pastors of other faiths luring people out by trying to pick sore spots or false teaching, and materialism based faith. 'You would be blessed and rich if you had more faith' kind of arguments are common right now.

[lundbaek]

I think there are 2 or 3 Korihors and Sherem types on this forum now.

[mirkwood]

I think there are 2 or 3 Korihors and Sherem types on this forum now.

At least.