Gathering to Zion

[DrJay]

According to Ezra Taft Benson "His First appearance will be to the righteous saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem."

When will that begin? What will be the circumstances around it? Why has the LDS Church discouraged those who felt prompted by the spirit to begin to gather?

It seems particularly important to me that the gathering to the New Jerusalem appears to be the kickoff for the Millenium.

It has also been described as a place of refuge. With the breakdown that is beginning in the country It is obvious to me that we need this place of refuge even now.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this important subject.

[7cylon7]

http://www.ayearwithnorainbow.com/Book% ... %20pdf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That will answer all your questions. In short, the appearances are as follows:

1. Christ appears first at AOA.
2. Christ appears to the saints at NJ.
3. Christ appears to the Jews at OJ.
4. Christ appears to the whole world in Glory.

You have taken your first step into a larger world.

[7cylon7]

I was born in Independence, MO. Lived there till I was 7. Went back there all the time to see my grandmother. Have been on temple square many times. Love the visitor center there.



Welcome.

[Original_Intent]

According to Ezra Taft Benson "His First appearance will be to the righteous saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem."

When will that begin? What will be the circumstances around it? Why has the LDS Church discouraged those who felt prompted by the spirit to begin to gather?

It seems particularly important to me that the gathering to the New Jerusalem appears to be the kickoff for the Millenium.

It has also been described as a place of refuge. With the breakdown that is beginning in the country It is obvious to me that we need this place of refuge even now.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this important subject.

We have been told that this area will be wiped clean prior to the NJ - so that "there will not be a yellow dog to wag his tail". So probably unwise to gather there PRIOR to the cleansing!

[DrJay]

Actually, I have downloaded this earlier today and started to read it. But my journey began many years ago.

But your summary seems lacking. For a City to be built, it will not happen overnight. Especially considering a city that is to be a refuge. This will be no small undertaking. It will take a significant period of time to accomplish.

Even the appearance at AOA has much preparation ahead of it. (Even if the Church at large is not aware of it). If according to Joseph Fielding Smith that the only members of the Church that will even be aware of it are those that attend, brings up an interesting point. If the event is not known to the body of the Church, it becomes difficult to use that knowledge to know when event #2 is about to take place. For example, just because I am not aware of the event, doesn't mean that it may not have already happened or will happen shortly.

The gathering is obviously prior to the appearance at the New Jerusalem. I suspect many years prior to accomplish the task. I suspect that the gathering will also begin (not the appearance) prior to the appearance at AOA.

[DrJay]

As to the cleansing. I believe it already has taken place. If you look at the history of Jackson County during the Civil way, the area was identified as a rebel stronghold. The union general in charge, marched his troops over the entire county and burned and looted the area. Out side of their strongholds there was nothing left. It was many years after the war before any significant number returned. Also it is significant to note that a "yellow dog" was a term referring to southern sympathesizers.

[DrJay]

I was born in Independence, MO. Lived there till I was 7. Went back there all the time to see my grandmother. Have been on temple square many times. Love the visitor center there.

I laugh at the RLDS temple there that looks like the tower of babel. You know that temple was to be way way bigger but they ran out of money.

Welcome.

They call that temple the "Snail" and it looks it.

I moved to Independence about 15 years ago.

[Original_Intent]

My personal feeling is 7 years to build NJ. I expect it will require complete consecration in order to achieve it in the time allotted.

[DrJay]

I can't imagine that the NJ could be built by a people that were not consecrated.

If 7 years is accurate, then the beginning of the gathering would be even soooner. Especially when you consider that it would take some time for the people to learn to be consecrated.

[7cylon7]

Dr. Jay,

What do you hear about the Kansas City temple. I have heard that one GA thinks this is the temple to be build before the second coming. This was said at a leadership meeting for the whole area where my brother-in-law attended and though not said in the meeting the GA said he thought this temple could be a temple needed there before the second coming.

Have you heard anything in that vain?


FYI I don't think it is according to JS written prophecy but it is interesting.

[jcricket6048]

As to the cleansing. I believe it already has taken place. If you look at the history of Jackson County during the Civil way, the area was identified as a rebel stronghold. The union general in charge, marched his troops over the entire county and burned and looted the area. Out side of their strongholds there was nothing left. It was many years after the war before any significant number returned. Also it is significant to note that a "yellow dog" was a term referring to southern sympathesizers.

I do not agree with you on that because Brigham Young was talking about the last days and not referring to the Civil War.

[DrJay]

From what I remember about the temple to be built in Independence, it was to be a complex, not just a single temple. I believe that Kansas City temple does not fit the bill at all. For the GA to say that the temple would be needed there is a very different statement than that it was the "Great Temple" of the Lord.

As to the cleansing of Jackson County. It's good to think about all the possibilities. I know for me that if it was revealed by the Spirit to come, then I better get my feet moving, no matter what my thoughts were about the cleansing.

[DrJay]

We can alway find many opions on any subject. This was published in the Ensign about the "yellow dog"

From the Ensign 1979 we read

http://lds.org/ensign/1979/04/missouri-myths?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Myth #3: But won’t there be immense destructions in Missouri preceding the Second Coming, so extensive that “not a yellow dog will be left to wag his tail”? It’s true that destruction throughout the earth is one of the conditions prior to the Second Coming. Yet as far as destruction in Missouri is concerned there are two schools of thought among members.

One believes that it has already taken place. Elder B. H. Roberts published a reported prophecy of Joseph Smith to Alexander Doniphan, his lawyer in Missouri. According to Doniphan’s brother-in-law, writing the incident over seventy years after it occurred, Joseph Smith warned Doniphan that “‘God’s wrath hangs over Jackson County … and you will live to see the day when it will be visited by fire and sword. The fields and farms and houses will be destroyed, and only the chimneys will be left to mark the desolation.’

“General Doniphan said to me,” his brother-in-law continued, “that the devastation of Jackson county [during the Civil War] forcibly reminded him of this remarkable prediction.” Elder Roberts cites additional descriptions of Jackson County’s role during the Civil War as fulfillment of this prophecy. (See Comprehensive History of the Church, 1:538–59; italics added.)

The other school of thought on the so-called “yellow dog” prophecy is that some members feel it is yet to occur. However, a study of the supposed source of the prophecy is helpful. It seems to have originated in a conversation between Heber C. Kimball and Amanda H. Wilcox in Salt Lake City in May 1868. She reports him as saying, “The western boundries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitants that, as President Young tells us, when we return to that place, ‘There will not be left so much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.’” (Prophetic Sayings of Heber C. Kimball to Sister Amanda H. Wilcox, n.p., n.d., p. 6.)

[DrJay]

http://www.ayearwithnorainbow.com/Book% ... %20pdf.pdf

That will answer all your questions. In short, the appearances are as follows:

1. Christ appears first at AOA.
2. Christ appears to the saints at NJ.
3. Christ appears to the Jews at OJ.
4. Christ appears to the whole world in Glory.

You have taken your first step into a larger world.

I just finished the book and it is quite good for the material that it covers and would recommend it highly. There are a number of discussion that it brings up that deserve their own topic. It still leaves a number of questions unanswered as to the gathering and building of the New Jerusalem which started this topic to begin with.

[sbsion]

so.........who do you know that is worthy to be gathered to zion?

[DrJay]

As I understand it, one of the reasons to gather is that the people may strenghen each other, and learn and live the laws of God. With that in mind, it might not be a matter of worthiness, but more of a matter of willingness to serve the Lord and to change and become the Lord's people.

[sbsion]

you're kidding of course

[DrJay]

Actually not.

I vaguely remember a quote (on the order of) "if the people do not gather, they will not be able to stand" ( or something like that). I'm going to have to try and find it and see how far out of context I'm remembering it. <grin>

[sbsion]

ZION......"the pure in heart", enough said

[DrJay]

It seems if people will have to "flee to Zion" for safety, that there is not a "worthiness" criteria on their coming. There is no doubt that Zion is "the pure in heart", so I imagine that there would be a period of learning, change and growth.

[believer]

I posted this before, but I will post it again. In 1974, my family and I moved to Joplin, MO. Every week at church, some other family would move in. We all had a similar story. We felt prompted to move there. Many other people were moving into areas south of Joplin. People were moving there with no job, or no income, or any other means of support, and living in great poverty. Elder Bruce R. McConkie was sent by President Kimball to find out what was going on. Elder McConkie spoke in Stake Conf. and told us that if we moved to Missouri in the same way we might move to any other place----New York, or Calif. etc. then it was OK. Meaning that if we prayed about it, and there was a reason, it was OK. But if we were moving there because it was where the NJ would be, or because that was the gathering place, then it was not.

I think this applies just as much now as it did then. When the time for the NJ to start being built, people will be called.


Believer

P.S. This is a good thread.

[DrJay]

I understand that shortly after Elder McConkie told the people that "this was not the place" that what had been a stake was to become a much smaller organization.

So is Zion to be a Church calling? At what level would that call come? Only Recommend holders? Or are the people led by the Spirit?

I can see it now, you can't flee to Zion because your recommend is out of date.

[believer]

At the time that we lived in Joplin, and APOSTLE McConkie spoke at Stake Conf., we were in the Springfield MO Stake. A couple of years later, the Springfield Stake was divided, and along with one unit from the KC stake, the Joplin, MO stake was organized. The Joplin Stake is still going strong. It certainly has not diminished.

The NJ has not been built yet, therefore fleeing to Zion by all those who do not want to take up arms against their neighbor does not apply at this time. Moving to MO or the KC or Independence area should still be the same as moving to any other place----after prayer and fasting and guidance by the Spirit. That being said, we are still free to move there for whatever reason, if we want to. There is no need for sarcasm. I was only passing on information given by an Apostle, who was under the direction of the Prophet.


Believer

[jcricket6048]

I understand that shortly after Elder McConkie told the people that "this was not the place" that what had been a stake was to become a much smaller organization.

So is Zion to be a Church calling? At what level would that call come? Only Recommend holders? Or are the people led by the Spirit?

I can see it now, you can't flee to Zion because your recommend is out of date.

well to honest with you your recommend will not be valid during the time because of the turmoil and suffering going on during that time. Like it says only the pure in heart will know for sure the time to go. There will be some things that even a temple recommend will not do. For example I am aware that we have people going to the temple that are not worthy or is not doing their part in building the kingdom here on earth. So a recommend will not work when they will ask us to help build New Jerusalem. During Christ time when he was here on earth they did not use a temple recommend to let them enter the temple. It will be the same way there.

[DrJay]

I do have a question. Since the Lord said that Zion would not be moved out of its place, why would anyone gather to Joplin to build the NJ? It's not like Joplin is a suburb of Independence. If we really take the Lord at his word how would we expect his spirit to lead us contrary to very specific direction he has already given.

In the D&C the Lord directs that the apostles will have authority over all the LDS Church, but then states that they will not have authority over Zion. How does that fit?