Gathering to Zion

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
heartsongs
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by heartsongs »

DrJay wrote:As I understand it, one of the reasons to gather is that the people may strenghen each other, and learn and live the laws of God. With that in mind, it might not be a matter of worthiness, but more of a matter of willingness to serve the Lord and to change and become the Lord's people.
I like that thought and the way you put it. I think that yes, now, we can continue to try to improve and we should always be pushing forward, but, I do think that we will not necessarily be 100% when we first gather, but, maybe we might be more of a people who seek and desire to be more like our Savior and want this change, to live amongst like minded, loving and God fearing people. I do think that in this current state and place, with all of the evil that surrounds us both day and night, becoming of one heart and mind, being filled with the pure love of Christ, and more diligent in our obedience makes it far more difficult to obtain at this stage and in this place.

Have you ever read "The Enoch Letters?" It is written by Neal A. Maxwell. It is a historical fiction and is really pretty good. It is about the City of Enoch. When those people very first gathered they were not living the law of consecration, but, had to learn to do so and how to have the pure love of Christ in their hearts, and for the people of that city to become like the Savior. It was amazing how every one helped each other and then how the people helped any new person who entered that city to also become like the Savior. If you haven't read it is an easy good read and eye opening into what living in a city like that might be like.

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ldsaint007
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by ldsaint007 »

That's the truth if ever I heard it! When I first became LDS I couldn't get passed the coffee and tea issue. I didn't drink coffee or tea anymore, but It was on my mind so much it bothered me for a resting answer. I ask ppl from the church as many as I could to get their response. One said this and one said that.. but one day I ask this one lady and she just so softly said, "I don't know ppl see it different ways, but just maybe it is to see if we will be faithful". Really there are worse things out there to be eaten or to drink that could do more harm than coffee or tea. However, that was the answer I was looking for it satified me and no longer an issue.

natasha
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by natasha »

Perhaps the question of Zion can be answered through the recent talk by Elder Holland (A MUST read):

http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/c ... g?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

karend77
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by karend77 »

heartsongs wrote:
DrJay wrote:As I understand it, one of the reasons to gather is that the people may strenghen each other, and learn and live the laws of God. With that in mind, it might not be a matter of worthiness, but more of a matter of willingness to serve the Lord and to change and become the Lord's people.
I like that thought and the way you put it. I think that yes, now, we can continue to try to improve and we should always be pushing forward, but, I do think that we will not necessarily be 100% when we first gather, but, maybe we might be more of a people who seek and desire to be more like our Savior and want this change, to live amongst like minded, loving and God fearing people. I do think that in this current state and place, with all of the evil that surrounds us both day and night, becoming of one heart and mind, being filled with the pure love of Christ, and more diligent in our obedience makes it far more difficult to obtain at this stage and in this place.

Have you ever read "The Enoch Letters?" It is written by Neal A. Maxwell. It is a historical fiction and is really pretty good. It is about the City of Enoch. When those people very first gathered they were not living the law of consecration, but, had to learn to do so and how to have the pure love of Christ in their hearts, and for the people of that city to become like the Savior. It was amazing how every one helped each other and then how the people helped any new person who entered that city to also become like the Savior. If you haven't read it is an easy good read and eye opening into what living in a city like that might be like.
I love this book. It used to be called "Of One Heart" when he first wrote it. One of my all time favorites.

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

First comes economic collapse and civil war. Then comes invasion from outside armies. Then comes victory. Then comes New Jerusalem.

Somewhere in there comes the lost 10 tribes from "the north countries".

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TZONE
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by TZONE »

This post goes along with the OP. I know there has been talk on the forums of whether Joseph Smith will come back to gather the saints. Also this statement below shows why we should not gather yet. Yes I know the "yellow dog may not wag its tail" quote is unverifiable yet the quote shows further that the saints must be tried before they can return to gather to prove they are worthy. How can that happen if they are already there?

THE VISION OF AMANDA WILCOX
Salt Lake City--1868

This, in part, is what Sister Wilcox has to say: During the latter part of May 18, 1868, President Heber C. Kimball and I were standing in front of his place, on North Main. After a few moments' conversation he turned to me and said, "Now, Sister Amanda, I am going to tell you something." Looking south, he observed: "What do you see? I told him that I did not know any of the places on Main Street except Brother Wells', Bishop Hunter's, William Jennings', Walker Brothers and the Tithing Office. He then remarked, "I will begin with Brother Wells' place (present site of Templeton Bldg.). It will be torn down and a six-story building will be erected on that corner. All of the houses south of that place will be removed to make room for buildings that will average from three to six stories high.

"Now we will come back from Fourth South to the Council House corner. (Present site of Union Pacific Bldg.) Here a large fireproof building will be erected with an addition to it on the west. Where the Tithing Office now stands (Hotel Utah site), will be constructed a building that will be a credit and honor to the inhabitants of this whole intermountain region. The land around the Temple Block will be owned by the Saints and this will become a city of beautiful buildings.

[96] "Next comes the Temple. What do you expect to see there?" I told him that I expected to see the Savior, Joseph, Hyrum and others. He said, "Have you seen the Temple picture?" I said that I had not. He then put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Now look."

"Oh, how white and beautiful," I exclaimed. He then removed his hand and the vision was gone. He then asked me if I knew where the Prophets, Joseph and Hyrum were. I told him that I knew, and he said, "This must be kept a secret."

He told me that the trials of the Saints would be hard to bear until the square of the Temple was reached. Before that time, however, our brethren would be imprisoned until the penitentiary shall be full, and some of them would be removed to other places. Mothers would weep for their husbands, and children would cry for their fathers. Some would die, and sorrow would fill the hearts of every Latter-day Saint.

Continuing, he said: "When the Temple roof is on, it will be somewhat better, but when the building is completed the Evil One will be shut out. The prayers of the Saints will be heard and the sick will be taken there to be healed. The Spirit of God will rest upon his people, and work for the dead will be continued night and day. You will attend the dedicatory services on the third day, and if you will come to this very spot, after the meeting is dismissed, you will hear a mighty voice cry out, `All is well.'"

I attended the services on the third day, and went to the designated spot, and heard the voice, as he said I would, repeated three times.

[97] He then went on to say, "An army of elders will be sent to the four quarters of the earth to search out the righteous and warn the wicked of what is coming. All kinds of religions will be started and miracles performed that will deceive the very elect if such a thing were possible. Our sons and daughters must live pure lives so as to be prepared for what is coming.

"After a while the Gentiles will gather to this place by the thousands, and Salt Lake will be classed among the wicked cities of the world. A spirit of speculation and extravagance will take possession of the Saints, and the result will be financial bondage.

"Persecution comes next, and all true Latter-day Saints will be tested to the limit. Many will apostatize, and others will stand still, not knowing what to do. `Darkness will cover the earth and gross darkness the minds of the people.'

"The judgments of God will be poured out upon the wicked to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home. Or in other words, the gospel will be taken from the Gentiles and later on will be carried to the Jews.

"The western boundaries of the State of Missouri will be swept so clean of its inhabitants that, as President Young tells us, when we return to that place, `There will not be left so much as a yellow dog to wag his tail.'

"Before that day comes, however, the Saints will be put to a test that will try the integrity of the best of them. The pressure will become so great that the more righteous among them will cry unto the Lord day and night until deliverance comes.

[98] "Then the Prophet Joseph and others will make their appearance and those who have remained faithful will be selected to return to Jackson County, Missouri, and take part in the upbuilding of that beautiful city, the New Jerusalem.

"Now, Sister Amanda," he continued, "a few words to you in relation to your children. Do you know who they are? They are Joseph and Ephraim combined. The Evil One will make an effort to darken their minds in relation to the gospel, but they will come through all right."

Sister Wilcox closes her narrative with the following statement: "As soon as I reached home, I made a record of what Brother Kimball had told as I knew that every word of it would come true. I did not see him again until the next Sunday. After meeting he bade me goodbye, and that was the last time I ever saw him."

ebenezerarise
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by ebenezerarise »

Isn't the "gathering" more about missionary work? Isn't that what gathering is all about?

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TZONE
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by TZONE »

ebenezerarise wrote:Isn't the "gathering" more about missionary work? Isn't that what gathering is all about?
There are different stages of the Gathering.

1) Missionary work (member work ;) ) is the initial Spiritual Gathering where we are to gather where ever we currently are.
2) After people are spiritualy ready, which unfortunately most will not be ready due to procastinating or being slothful (10 virgins), they will become persecuted and the wheat and tares sperated due to the great persecution from the world upon the saints. What would happen if the leaders finally said enough is enough and said that the current state of society is going to be destroyed if we continue on? If America does not repent it will also OR chastises the government is full of secret combinations? That would causes men to be locked up and others to be murdered for being a Christian.
3) Saints will gather to places of Zion for safety from the current wars, civil wars, plagues, and lack of food.
4) The physical gathering for safety will in turn cause a gathering where New Jerusalem will be built, other cities will also be built up (notice most people will not be called to build up the NJ). During this gathering the 10 Tribes will return, the 144k anointed will finish the final gathering of saints in America and other countries. Yes 144k is most likely symbolic and there could be many others as well doing it.
5) This final gathering prepares a society that can live the law of consecration that they can abide Christ's glory when he returns and not be burned.

Notice how we must prepare now spiritually to abide Christ's glory, if we die now and are not than we won't be with him in the Celestial kingdom.

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dlbww
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by dlbww »

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Last edited by dlbww on September 26th, 2015, 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

karend77
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by karend77 »

dlbww wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-2 ... t-collapse
Yet another reason to gather to Canada (Zion north). Watch the USA get cleansed (from a distance) and then move back if you so desire.
A nice moderate climate off the west coast (like this: http://saltspringtourism.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) would be nice.

Disclaimer: I'm in the Branch Presidency and we're looking to increase our membership.
Having been to Victoria, I can say our "neck of the woods is gorgeous". :)

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BroJones
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by BroJones »

dlbww wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-2 ... t-collapse
Yet another reason to gather to Canada (Zion north). Watch the USA get cleansed (from a distance) and then move back if you so desire.
A nice moderate climate off the west coast (like this: http://saltspringtourism.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) would be nice.

Disclaimer: I'm in the Branch Presidency and we're looking to increase our membership.
LOL. I'd love to move to BC... A while back I looked at Creston...
I understand its not so easy for a US citizen to move up there "permanently" though, right? a retiree? getting on to the Canadian medical program?

embryopocket
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by embryopocket »

Thank you all for your wonderful comments and insights. Reading through this thread has been a delight. We can see the prophecies being fulfilled before our eyes. May we all prove ourselves true and faithful in these final trials. :)

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dlbww
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by dlbww »

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Last edited by dlbww on September 26th, 2015, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dlbww
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by dlbww »

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Last edited by dlbww on September 26th, 2015, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sheol27
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by Sheol27 »

There have been quite a few interesting things in this article. Where does it say that the New Jerusalem was to be built in 7 years? Is that speculation or does someone have a source? Thanks. I do however see that possible. From what I have read, the Lost 10 tribes help build the New Jerusalem. They also will inherit / "build up the waste places of Zion." To me that implies that Missouri is laid to waste again....

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Louisianamama
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by Louisianamama »

jcricket6048 wrote:
DrJay wrote:As to the cleansing. I believe it already has taken place. If you look at the history of Jackson County during the Civil way, the area was identified as a rebel stronghold. The union general in charge, marched his troops over the entire county and burned and looted the area. Out side of their strongholds there was nothing left. It was many years after the war before any significant number returned. Also it is significant to note that a "yellow dog" was a term referring to southern sympathesizers.
I do not agree with you on that because Brigham Young was talking about the last days and not referring to the Civil War.
What if Brigham Young wasn't a true prophet but was just a man with a power issue that believed in the BOM? Joseph named Hyrum as his successor not Brigham, he was voted...is that what was the process to be? Do know that for certain? Maybe navoo was/is the place to be, since that's where Joseph (our Prophet) put us...this question has been on my mind for years. I feel the time for Zion is nearing. I have horses and lacks so that I can take my family to Zion, wherever it may be...I doubt cars will be the best at that time. I feel I will have to travel but just don't feel it will be by car. And I don't know where it will be...just confused.

DrJay
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by DrJay »

Joseph gave the location of Zion as Independence, Jackson County, Missouri. The Lord said it would not be moved out of its place. I take him at his word.

The gathering to Zion has already begun.

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BroJones
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by BroJones »

InfoWarrior82 wrote:First comes economic collapse and civil war. Then comes invasion from outside armies. Then comes victory. Then comes New Jerusalem.

Somewhere in there comes the lost 10 tribes from "the north countries".
Something like that, with the great pivotal meeting at AoAhman before the tide turns; indeed, precipitating a great change in the struggle.

I've been reading "visions of glory"- see especially appendices, about cleansing, total clearing actually, of states of Missouri and Illinois. I admit I sort of downplayed these prophecies before, but more recently have had some relevant promptings, so I'm actually yearning to return to the 'everlasting hills" BEFORE the manure hits the circulator... My wife and I seek to get onto the same page via fasting and prayer... not there yet...
However, such choices are personal and family and we seek the Lord's guidance.

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Matthew.B
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by Matthew.B »

DrJones wrote:I've been reading "visions of glory"- see especially appendices, about cleansing, total clearing actually, of states of Missouri and Illinois. I admit I sort of downplayed these prophecies before, but more recently have had some relevant promptings, so I'm actually yearning to return to the 'everlasting hills" BEFORE the manure hits the circulator... My wife and I seek to get onto the same page via fasting and prayer... not there yet...
However, such choices are personal and family and we seek the Lord's guidance.
Good luck, Dr. Jones! I hope you and your wife can reach a unity of heart and mind on the matter soon.

DrJay
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by DrJay »

I believe that the Lord's guidance should take precedence over our personal and even our family choices. If you go with the Lord's direction and blessing then you will be in the correct place for you. Sometimes putting the Lord's will above our own desires can be difficult and hard to do. Sometimes we are initially led to do something and after the initial excitement wears off we start to wonder if we were led to begin with. Dr. Jones, when I heard that you moved to Missouri, I wondered what role the Lord has prepared you for. Its obvious that you have prepared long and hard to be part of Zion, don't give up.

hrac
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by hrac »

I read Elder Holland's Ensign recent article last night. He very clearly stated that we are to build up Zion wherever we are, and the we will stay there permanently. He referred to Utah as the New Jerusalem, and said that we will not flee Babylon as Saints have in times past. I believe him, remember that current prophets take precedence over past prophets. I believe the Brethren are telling us to dig in our heels where we are and build up Zion, and is putting to rest the notion that we are going to travel to Missouri to build Zion. I don't see how he could be more clear in his message.

DrJay
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by DrJay »

So I gather that Elder Holland thinks that the Lord has changed his mind and the prophesies of all the prophets are all as dead as they are. Personally, I think different.

LYFETRNL
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by LYFETRNL »

hrac wrote:I read Elder Holland's Ensign recent article last night. He very clearly stated that we are to build up Zion wherever we are, and the we will stay there permanently. He referred to Utah as the New Jerusalem, and said that we will not flee Babylon as Saints have in times past. I believe him, remember that current prophets take precedence over past prophets. I believe the Brethren are telling us to dig in our heels where we are and build up Zion, and is putting to rest the notion that we are going to travel to Missouri to build Zion. I don't see how he could be more clear in his message.

Which month??? I guess I overlooked it but I doubt anyone would repudiate The Lord when he told Joseph Smith that Zion, The New Jerusalem would be built in Independence, Missouri. Just not happening

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LDSguy
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by LDSguy »

I think sometimes the brethren do not tell us the complete truth when it comes to the future. Not that they are lying, but they choose to only tell us what is important in the immediate future. hence, the instructions and teachings to build up Zion where ever we are and remain there. However, as Zion will be built in Independence, Missouri or else God is a liar. I think the brother and can instruct us in one thing for 2014 while the future holds something entirely different.

imagine if the church leaders came out and said that one day all the church members will be gathered in the Wasatch Valley or Jackson County Missouri… Imagine how many people would flock there right now and the missionary work in their old areas would not be as prevalent.

if there is to be some sort of latter-day migration, I do believe that the leaders will instruct us right before all hell breaks loose. But until then we will be instructed to remain where we are and "build up Zion".

DrJay
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Re: Gathering to Zion

Post by DrJay »

hrac wrote:I read Elder Holland's Ensign recent article last night. He very clearly stated that we are to build up Zion wherever we are, and the we will stay there permanently. He referred to Utah as the New Jerusalem, and said that we will not flee Babylon as Saints have in times past.
That doesn't sound like he is "hedging" the future. "Permanent" sounds very different than "not yet". Utah the New Jerusalem? Again that is very different than what has been revealed by the Lord.

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