POLL: How Much Time Does America Really Have Left?

[LDSguy]

I think we would all agree on this forum that we are in the end times, that it is 11:55, that we are living in the last days, that America is on the path to doom, that the prophecies of the last days are about to start rapidly occurring all around us.

What I want to know is how many years do you think America has left given the sad state of affairs we are currently in. Personally, I can see it escalating out of control soon, but i can also see the good people of America saving it here and there, helping to tide the gross wickedness that is occurring.

[Jason]

Where's the months option?

[LDSguy]

Where's the months option?

)

[jonesde]

One small issue with the wording for this survey: it seems to imply that the current American path to doom is necessarily one of the events leading up to the second coming of Christ.

It certainly seems like there are lots of issues ready to cause war, plagues, and general hardship throughout the world. These may be events prophesied to happen before the second coming, or it may be that we have even a couple of decades of economic hardship and wars before the actual prophesied events begin (ie that current hardships are just another part of the human experience, like the WWI, WWII, various economic collapses in countries around the world, and countless other wars and atrocities that make up the dark side of the human experience).

That said, I still voted for 1-5 years.

[NoGreaterLove]

One small issue with the wording for this survey: it seems to imply that the current American path to doom is necessarily one of the events leading up to the second coming of Christ (which coming?).

It certainly seems like there are lots of issues ready to cause war, plagues, and general hardship throughout the world. These may be events prophesied to happen before the second coming, or it may be that we have even a couple of decades of economic hardship and wars before the actual prophesied events begin (ie that current hardships are just another part of the human experience, like the WWI, WWII, various economic collapses in countries around the world, and countless other wars and atrocities that make up the dark side of the human experience).

That said, I still voted for 1-5 years.

[LDSguy]

Have you read Skousen's book "The Cleansing of America" jonesde?

[jonesde]

Have you read Skousen's book "The Cleansing of America" jonesde?

Even so, where does it say the coming probable economic catastrophes are the prophesied cleansing? I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but maybe the scourge that Cleon Skousen is still years away, even if those years are filled with great suffering due to economic collapse, foreign wars... perhaps even wars here in the USA.

In other words, I'm not aware of any prophecies which say that things similar to what will happen before the coming of Christ will not happen before those things start. In fact, I think quite the opposite in that a long period of wars and rumors of wars and great wickedness throughout the world are spoken of clearly.

It may very well be that was is happening now is the stuff that will happen just before the coming of Christ, or it may be that it's just more stuff and while horrible for many of us it's just another of the hundreds of eras of human tragedy, and not THE era of human tragedy foretold in the Apocalypse of John.

[NoGreaterLove]

Have you read Skousen's book "The Cleansing of America" jonesde?

Even so, where does it say the coming probable economic catastrophes are the prophesied cleansing? I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but maybe the scourge that Cleon Skousen is still years away, even if those years are filled with great suffering due to economic collapse, foreign wars... perhaps even wars here in the USA.

In other words, I'm not aware of any prophecies which say that things similar to what will happen before the coming of Christ will not happen before those things start. In fact, I think quite the opposite in that a long period of wars and rumors of wars and great wickedness throughout the world are spoken of clearly.

It may very well be that was is happening now is the stuff that will happen just before the coming of Christ, or it may be that it's just more stuff and while horrible for many of us it's just another of the hundreds of eras of human tragedy, and not THE era of human tragedy foretold in the Apocalypse of John.

In conference a few years ago it was said that we are living those latter day prophecies, that we are in the midst of them, not waiting for them to come. Maybe I will be able to find the quote.

[LDSguy]

@jonesde

FACT: America will be cleansed and it will start within the LDS church then out to the rest of America.

To your point on whether or not it will begin with "the coming probable economic catastrophes" that's not what this poll is asking.

"I think quite the opposite in that a long period of wars and rumors of wars and great wickedness throughout the world are spoken of clearly." Then you shouldn't have voted for 1-5 years:

That said, I still voted for 1-5 years.

It very well could be a period of 20 years of more wars and rumors of wars and economic collapse before the prophesied cleansing of America occurs, that's why there is a poll.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... ang=eng#22

[NoGreaterLove]

Is the cleansing of America foretold by John, Daniel, Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Psalms, Book of Mormon, D&C? If so what are we to look for? What are the signs? Where are we at in the signs?
I think once we have answered these questions, we will be able to more fully answer the poll.

[Original_Intent]

I have thought less than ten years since Clinton. I quit trying to guess a time frame, (OK, not really - but I do see it all as a guess) and I am trying to prepare as if it were imminent. As in weeks or months. There is much that still has to occur, but it could happen fast. I expect we will have at least one more election. If Obama is re-elected, then I'd say we have at least one more election. As far as the financial system, it could be gone next week or it could be kept sputtering for years, maybe decades.

I am getting a real sense of urgency the last couple of years. I used to enjoy computer games, and wasted a LOT of time on them...any more, it all seems boring and a waste of time. I feel that I am being pushed into doing the right a little bit - I still have agency but my desires seem to be channelled into proper pursuits. For instance I have read the entire bible, OT and NT since Sept 15 (finished this last weekend). That is insane scripture study for me, possibly even surpassing my studies in the mission field. Also in that time period I have read Ken Bowers "Hiding in Plain Sight" and just am continually looking for additional reading material/video documentaries/old and recent conference talks.

I still have some materialism, but much more it seems I am focussing on things of eternal worth, and also preparations for hard times. My wife and I are buying only "prepper" items for each other for Christmas this year. Based on promptings, both strength and frequency it "feels" very very close. 2011 has been an unprecedented year, and I think that 2012 will make 2011 seem tame. Especially as Dec 2012 hysteria kicks in, I expect the next 14 months (especially Nov '12- Jan '13) to be unlike anything in living memory.

I'll put 1-5 years for the poll, but it seems I have a tendency to underestimate the patience of the Lord.

[LDSguy]

I am getting a real sense of urgency the last couple of years. I used to enjoy computer games, and wasted a LOT of time on them...any more, it all seems boring and a waste of time. I feel that I am being pushed into doing the right a little bit - I still have agency but my desires seem to be channelled into proper pursuits...and just am continually looking for additional reading material/video documentaries/old and recent conference talks.

Ditto to all of that! It sounded like I wrote that! Giving an EQ lesson Sunday Standing in Holy Places.

For instance I have read the entire bible, OT and NT since Sept 15 (finished this last weekend). That is insane scripture study for me, possibly even surpassing my studies in the mission field.

My wife and I have used excess cash from a month free of mortgage to get our entire years supply of food!

Based on promptings, both strength and frequency it "feels" very very close. 2011 has been an unprecedented year, and I think that 2012 will make 2011 seem tame. Especially as Dec 2012 hysteria kicks in, I expect the next 14 months (especially Nov '12- Jan '13) to be unlike anything in living memory.

Yep!

[NoGreaterLove]

Wow! My one vote is getting smaller percentage-wise (6-10) Down to 7% now.

[Amore Vero]

Actually, Dec. 2011 may prove to be very eventful, don't you agree Angel Palmoni?

[sbsion]

even though I voted 1-5, because you didn't say LESS............bad poll

[NoGreaterLove]

Oh by the way. I offered my services during the Y2K event and made a lot of money guarding peoples lives, I will extend the offer to any of you. $100 an hour to guard you and your family during the Mayan Calendar "end date".

[sbsion]

better still, prepare yourself to do it yourself with my products..he he

[friendsofthe]

Five months.

[Jason]

Have you read Skousen's book "The Cleansing of America" jonesde?

Even so, where does it say the coming probable economic catastrophes are the prophesied cleansing? I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but maybe the scourge that Cleon Skousen is still years away, even if those years are filled with great suffering due to economic collapse, foreign wars... perhaps even wars here in the USA.

In other words, I'm not aware of any prophecies which say that things similar to what will happen before the coming of Christ will not happen before those things start. In fact, I think quite the opposite in that a long period of wars and rumors of wars and great wickedness throughout the world are spoken of clearly.

It may very well be that was is happening now is the stuff that will happen just before the coming of Christ, or it may be that it's just more stuff and while horrible for many of us it's just another of the hundreds of eras of human tragedy, and not THE era of human tragedy foretold in the Apocalypse of John.

The problem is.....we are as interdependent (globally) as we've ever been in history. So no matter what happens....when that event interferes with the 15,000 mile supply chain....things will go extremely fast from that point on.

There's less than two days groceries on the shelf at nearly every grocery store in America. It won't take much of a hit to the apple cart to tip it over....


80 percent of the seafood in America is imported
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44701461/ns ... perts-say/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Slightly over a third of frozen whole fish came from Asia—again China being the largest provider, accounting for 25 percent of imports.

In 1998, Chinese fruit juice exports to the United States were valued below $30,000. However, the value of these imports soared above $380 million in 2007, making China the largest exporter of fruit juices to the United States, a position long held by Brazil.

India, Vietnam, Brazil, and Mexico together accounted for about 70 percent of U.S. nut imports.

Mexico accounts for about 70 percent of all fresh vegetable imports into the United States, and Canada accounts for another 15-20 percent. Although imports from China were valued at only about 2 percent of the total value of 2007 fresh vegetable imports, they rose very rapidly and grew from $2 million in 1998 to almost $93 million in 2007.

Mexico was the largest exporter to the United States; however, its share, at 23 percent in 2007, was relatively low compared with its U.S. import share of fresh vegetables. In fact, with increasing preserved vegetable imports from China, Mexico’s import share declined from 31 percent in 1998. China was the second largest source of U.S. preserved vegetable imports in 2007, with a total import share valued at 20 percent. This import share represents dramatic growth in U.S. imports from China, from $42 million in 1998 to over $213 million in 2007. Canada was the third major source of U.S. imports of preserved vegetables, followed by Central and South American countries and India. India’s preserved vegetable exports to the United States have increased from $8 million in 1998 to over $37 million in 2007. Imports from China and India were largely beans, lentils, mushrooms, and roots and tubers, such as Jerusalem artichoke.

Mexico was the source of about a quarter of the total value of fruit and nut imports to the United States, followed by Chile, Costa Rica, and China. These four countries accounted for about 60 percent of all U.S. fruit and nut imports.

Most rice imports were sourced from Thailand (almost 60 percent), followed by India, China, and Pakistan. The four countries together accounted for over 90 percent of U.S. rice imports.

The largest component of U.S. grain and grain product imports were processed products, such as bakery and other prepared consumer-ready food items, like breads, cookies, pasta, breakfast cereals, mixes, and doughs. The United States imported $3.6 billion worth of processed cereal products in 2007, up from $1.4 billion in 1998. The major sources of U.S. grain product imports were NAFTA trading partners, which together accounted for about 60 percent of total imports (fig. 8). Italy, countries in East Asia, and India together accounted for an additional 20 percent of U.S. processed grain imports. Breads and cookies were the largest single group of imported grain products, with a value at nearly $1 billion in 2007. Nearly 70 percent of U.S. bread and cookie imports came from Canada and Mexico

...a growing share of U.S. imports can be attributed to intra-industry trade, whereby agricultural-processing industries based in the United States carry out certain processing steps offshore and import products at different levels of processing from their subsidiaries in foreign markets (Regmi et al., 2005). Consequently, food manufacturing operations are often spread over many national boundaries to minimize production and distribution costs as well as to enhance the ability to quickly replenish inventories.

Australia and Canada accounted for most of the beef imports, while imports of lamb and goat meat came primarily from Australia and New Zealand (fig. 10). Canada and Denmark were the primary exporters of swine meat into the United States; yet, salted swine meat was mainly imported from Italy, Canada, Spain, and Germany. Nearly all imported fowl were from Canada. Argentina and Brazil supplied the bulk of U.S. processed meat imports, mostly beef products.

In 2007, most processed meat entered the United States from Brazil (68 percent import share) and Argentina (16 percent), with NAFTA countries’ share being relatively lower (Canada 7 percent and Mexico 6 percent).

The majority of perishable U.S. dairy imports, such as fluid milk, fresh cheese, and ice cream came from nearby NAFTA countries and other countries
in the Western Hemisphere. Milk exports from Mexico exploded from a value of $1.6 million in 1998 to over $23 million in 2007. Despite loss of market share in milk and milk products, Canada remained the major exporter of ice cream to the United States, with 61 percent of the total value in 2007.

Italy and France supplied nearly 40 percent of all cheese imports, while the Netherlands, Australia, Switzerland, Austria, and the United Kingdom supplied about 25 percent combined (fig. 12).
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/fa ... fau125.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason]

Five months.

That's what I'm thinking....we are in the months range now....

[dlbww]

.

[jonesde]

Have you read Skousen's book "The Cleansing of America" jonesde?

Even so, where does it say the coming probable economic catastrophes are the prophesied cleansing? I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but maybe the scourge that Cleon Skousen is still years away, even if those years are filled with great suffering due to economic collapse, foreign wars... perhaps even wars here in the USA.

In other words, I'm not aware of any prophecies which say that things similar to what will happen before the coming of Christ will not happen before those things start. In fact, I think quite the opposite in that a long period of wars and rumors of wars and great wickedness throughout the world are spoken of clearly.

It may very well be that was is happening now is the stuff that will happen just before the coming of Christ, or it may be that it's just more stuff and while horrible for many of us it's just another of the hundreds of eras of human tragedy, and not THE era of human tragedy foretold in the Apocalypse of John.

The problem is.....we are as interdependent (globally) as we've ever been in history. So no matter what happens....when that event interferes with the 15,000 mile supply chain....things will go extremely fast from that point on.

There's less than two days groceries on the shelf at nearly every grocery store in America. It won't take much of a hit to the apple cart to tip it over....

I agree, things are structured really poorly to handle anything less than ideal conditions. Businesses are getting squeezed more and more by government, as are their employees and customers, and for decades businesses have been cutting everything they could or shuffling things around to maintain margins and stay on time of price curves.

I see this first hand all the time as I do a lot of software work on inventory and supply chain systems (and recently a bunch with banking and financial systems... wow was that an eye-opener).

Still, things like this have happened before. Pretty bad things have happened in this country, but nothing like the results of economic collapse and wars in other countries such as Argentina, the Balkan wars, various African nations, and going back a bit further Weimar Germany, WWI/II, the Civil War, and so on.

So why does something like economic collapse or war in the USA necessarily mean the actual Apocalypse is getting underway?

Yes, various things prophesied to happen before the coming of Christ have happened, but that even included the founding of the Church and the work of Joseph Smith... so all of the tragedies mentioned above have happened since we started seeing those prophesies fulfilled.

Clearly we're getting closer, but as time passes we are necessarily getting closer. Does it mean we're THAT close?

This coming collapse, and perhaps "cleansing" as well, may very well be the beginning or escalation of the events written of by John, but how do we know it isn't yet another round of the same things that have been happening for the last 170 years or so?

So yeah, major economic problems and perhaps even war in the continental USA may happen in the next couple of years... but what if after that there is a decade of relative peace before the events in the Apocalypse of John begin?

Will that shake your faith?

[Jason]

The problem is.....we are as interdependent (globally) as we've ever been in history. So no matter what happens....when that event interferes with the 15,000 mile supply chain....things will go extremely fast from that point on.

There's less than two days groceries on the shelf at nearly every grocery store in America. It won't take much of a hit to the apple cart to tip it over....

I agree, things are structured really poorly to handle anything less than ideal conditions. Businesses are getting squeezed more and more by government, as are their employees and customers, and for decades businesses have been cutting everything they could or shuffling things around to maintain margins and stay on time of price curves.

I see this first hand all the time as I do a lot of software work on inventory and supply chain systems (and recently a bunch with banking and financial systems... wow was that an eye-opener).

Still, things like this have happened before. Pretty bad things have happened in this country, but nothing like the results of economic collapse and wars in other countries such as Argentina, the Balkan wars, various African nations, and going back a bit further Weimar Germany, WWI/II, the Civil War, and so on.

So why does something like economic collapse or war in the USA necessarily mean the actual Apocalypse is getting underway?

Yes, various things prophesied to happen before the coming of Christ have happened, but that even included the founding of the Church and the work of Joseph Smith... so all of the tragedies mentioned above have happened since we started seeing those prophesies fulfilled.

Clearly we're getting closer, but as time passes we are necessarily getting closer. Does it mean we're THAT close?

This coming collapse, and perhaps "cleansing" as well, may very well be the beginning or escalation of the events written of by John, but how do we know it isn't yet another round of the same things that have been happening for the last 170 years or so?

So yeah, major economic problems and perhaps even war in the continental USA may happen in the next couple of years... but what if after that there is a decade of relative peace before the events in the Apocalypse of John begin?

Will that shake your faith?

Nah won't shake my faith...just a gut feeling as well as perhaps an educated (subject to debate I know) opinion...as well as looking at the people around me and the economics. When I bring it up with some fellow high priests they mention basically what you just stated......they thought it was 18 months away from collapse in the 60's and 70's (wars, assassination of president, nukes with Russia, etc).

They could be right. Of course 99% of them are completely ignorant of how bad it really is (poison in food & water, vaccines, etc....financial situation with debt saturation with the resultant transfer of assets and war for control of those assets....increase in natural disasters - earthquakes, floods, etc.....and probably the biggest indicator to me - the nearness of martial law or king on the land which the Lord has promised won't happen and we see the near complete correlation with the Book of Mormon on it in both timing and activities).

[Songbird]

Five months.

That's what I'm thinking....we are in the months range now....

Agreed...

[sbsion]

dido