Joseph Smith/Civil War

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chrisa18
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Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by chrisa18 »

Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."

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Rensai
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

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chrisargyle18 wrote:Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
Definitely a second civil war in the future.

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friendsofthe
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by friendsofthe »

chrisargyle18 , what is the source of this information?

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chrisa18
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by chrisa18 »

Here's one place
http://www.dailypaul.com/154729/prophec ... -fulfilled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The prophecy was recorded by Mosiah Hancock in 1844 and is documented in "The Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock" .In this prophecy, Joseph Smith predicted the advent of a third major political party in the United States as well as a physical invasion of the U.S. by foreign powers.

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party.

The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, "Let us divide up the lands of the United States", then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up -- when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God". Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
I got this last one from http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/ ... smith.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lundbaek
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

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Of interest to me is that the Independent American Party exists in Nevada and maybe in certain other states as well. It is affiliated with the Constitution Party, which is somewhat better known.

Nan
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Nan »

I don't think we have seen this happen. But it sure looks to me like the two parties could go to war against each other with all of the anger going on.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Original_Intent »

lundbaek wrote:Of interest to me is that the Independent American Party exists in Nevada and maybe in certain other states as well. It is affiliated with the Constitution Party, which is somewhat better known.
There also was an IAP in Utah, but they became a national party. Some of the state parties at that point affilliated with the Constitution Party.

http://www.usiap.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Songbird
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Songbird »

Chris,
these quotes are also found in Prophecy, Key to the Future by Duane Crowther. He treats the subject quite thoroughly.

Personally, I think this "war" has already begun. The american people are "fed up" with the status quo and moved to the "tea party" which was "born" this last election cycle. Who knows how it will develop.

EmmaLee
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by EmmaLee »

This had not happened prior to the first "civil" war....
The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands
....so this is still in our future...
until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
Last edited by EmmaLee on February 20th, 2011, 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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M249Gunner
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by M249Gunner »

I think the war between the political parties is figurative. I believe the invasion will be literal.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Original_Intent »

M249Gunner wrote:I think the war between the political parties is figurative. I believe the invasion will be literal.
You have to read prophecy carefully. It does not say the two parties will go to war with each other it just says that the two parties will go to war. A reasonable interpretation is that both parties are warmongers, there is no longer a "peace" party.

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Ras922
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Ras922 »

CIVIL WAR TO START IN CHICAGO AREA OVER INFLATION - HMMMM WONDER WHY.....
Gov. Quinn promises to quickly sign Ill. tax hike
AP



Quote::::::Reps. Dan Brady, right, R-Bloomington, and Roger Eddy, R-Hutsonville confer on the House floor during a session at the state Capitol in Springfield, I AP – Reps. Dan Brady, right, R-Bloomington, and Roger Eddy, R-Hutsonville confer on the House floor during …


By DEANNA BELLANDI, Associated Press Deanna Bellandi, Associated Press – Wed Jan 12, 6:24 pm ET

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. – Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn defended a massive increase in state income taxes passed by lawmakers Wednesday and promised to quickly sign the measure to help heal the state's ailing finances.

Lawmakers worked overnight to pass the increase to raise the personal income tax rate from 3 percent to 5 percent for four years — a 66 percent increase. Corporate income taxes also will rise, but Quinn rejected the notion that it would decimate businesses.

The rate increase might be the biggest any state has adopted in percentage terms while grappling with recent economic woes. Nevertheless, Illinois' tax rate would remain lower than in several other states in the region.

"It's important for their state government not to be a fiscal basket case," Quinn told reporters outside his Capitol office.

Legislative leaders rushed early Wednesday to pass the politically risky plan before a new General Assembly was sworn in at noon, taking a slice out of the Democratic majority and removing lame-duck lawmakers willing to support the tax before leaving office.

The tax increase would temporarily raise the personal tax rate to 5 percent, a two-thirds increase from the current 3 percent rate. Corporate taxes also would climb as part of the effort to close a budget hole that could hit $15 billion this year. Quinn's office said the higher taxes will generate about $6.8 billion a year — a major increase by any measure.

The tax increase will be coupled with strict 2 percent limits on spending growth. If officials spend above those limits, the tax increase will automatically be canceled. The plan's supporters warned that rising pension and health care costs probably will eat up all the spending allowed by the caps, forcing cuts in other areas of government.

Other pieces of the budget plan failed.

Lawmakers rejected a $1-a-pack increase in cigarette taxes, which would have provided money for schools. They also blocked a plan to borrow $8.7 billion to pay off overdue bills, which means long-suffering businesses and social-service agencies won't get their money anytime soon.

House Speaker Michael Madigan said Republicans should have supported some parts of the plan instead of voting against everything. The proposal passed the House on Tuesday night 60-57, the bare minimum. No Republicans backed the measure there or in the Senate, where the measure passed 30-29.

"They're on the sidelines. They don't want to get on the field of play," the Chicago Democrat said. "I'm happy that the day has ended."

But Republicans noted they were not included in negotiations. They also fundamentally reject the idea of raising taxes after years of spending growth.

"We're saying to the people of Illinois, `For eight years we've overspent, now we're going to make it your problem,'" said Rep. Roger Eddy. "We're making up for our mistakes on your back."

The increase means an Illinois resident who now owes $1,000 in state income taxes will pay $1,666 at the new rate. After four years, the rate drops to 3.75 percent and that same taxpayer will then owe $1,250.

Republicans predict the tax eventually will be made permanent.

"It's a cruel hoax to play on citizens to say this is temporary," said House Minority Leader Tom Cross, R-Oswego.

Republicans also accused Democrats of doing irreparable harm to Illinois families and businesses. Business leaders decried the proposal as a job-killer.

"Based on this particular legislation the only businesses that will benefit are the moving companies that will be helping many of my members move out of this particular state," said Gregory Baise, head of the Illinois Manufacturers' Association.

Governors of some neighboring states quickly jumped on the issue. Republican Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who took office last week has already proposed a tax cut for businesses that relocate to Wisconsin from other states, invited companies to head north.

"Years ago Wisconsin had a tourism advertising campaign targeted to Illinois with the motto, 'Escape to Wisconsin,'" Walker said Wednesday in a statement. "Today we renew that call to Illinois businesses, 'Escape to Wisconsin.' You are welcome here."

Quinn scoffed at the notion. "Lots of luck to them, but that's not going to happen."

Democrats countered that even with the increase, Illinois' tax rate will be lower than in many neighboring states — Iowa's top rate is 8.98 percent, Wisconsin's is 7.75 percent. They also maintain that without more money, state government may not be able to pay employees by the end of the year.

Democrats also bristled at being blamed for the state's financial problems, although they've controlled the governor's office and both legislative chambers since 2003.

They said some of the problem began under Republican governors and that Republicans backed some budgets that increased spending. They argued the national recession sent state revenues into a nosedive and that Democrats already have cut spending by billions of dollars.

The new tax money will balance the state's annual budget and let officials begin chipping away at the backlog of unpaid bills. Borrowing money, and then repaying it with a portion of the tax increase, would have allowed those bills to be paid immediately, aiding organizations that provide services for the state but go months without being reimbursed.

The delay and the spending limits are "very troubling" to those groups, said Sean Noble, policy director for Voices for Illinois Children, a member of the statewide Responsible Budget Coalition. Still, he called the tax increase "an enormous step" toward putting Illinois on sound financial footing.

___

Associated Press writers Christopher Wills and Zachary Colman in Springfield and Scott Bauer in Madison, Wis., contributed to this report.

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chrisa18
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by chrisa18 »

Thanks for the update Ras922 were really close to it now...

Farmer
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Farmer »

Rensai wrote:
chrisargyle18 wrote:Was Joseph Smith talking about American **== Civil War I or American **== Civil war II in this quote?

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were."
Definitely a second civil war in the future.
Agree. Definitely 2nd.

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chrisa18
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by chrisa18 »

I was thinking that too.I was thinking some of these need yet to be fullfilled.I'm guessing they're going to be fullfilled soon
Last edited by chrisa18 on February 23rd, 2011, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Farmer
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Farmer »

Original_Intent wrote:
M249Gunner wrote:I think the war between the political parties is figurative. I believe the invasion will be literal.
You have to read prophecy carefully. It does not say the two parties will go to war with each other it just says that the two parties will go to war. A reasonable interpretation is that both parties are warmongers, there is no longer a "peace" party.
I believe this to be true as well. They are one in the same and both committed to the destruction of mankind through the war machine.

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pjbrownie
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by pjbrownie »

Illinois is also becoming the safe haven for the awol Democrats from Wisconsin and now Indiana and maybe soon Ohio. Chicago is supposed to be the seat of the next civil war according to the Milton Musser papers on a Joseph Smith prophecy on Civil War.

fps.sledge
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by fps.sledge »

How will illinois be able to provide for a civil war when they "ban" guns from their citizens? hmmm... Who will have the firearms? awww i see.

scottja
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by scottja »

Where does it say Civil in the Joseph Smith quote?
I always thought that the people of the US and remaining military would be fighting the invaders.

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Mark
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Mark »

scottja wrote:Where does it say Civil in the Joseph Smith quote?
I always thought that the people of the US and remaining military would be fighting the invaders.

Exactly right scott. The warring between the 2 political parties does not have to intale physical battlefield fighting does it? Joseph was seeing the Assyrian armies overwhelming the US (Drunkards of Ephraim) military. Just like Isaiah did many years previously. Out of the mouth of 2 witnesses.. ;)

tribrac
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by tribrac »

I know the official line is that Joesph Smith 'prophesied the Civil War' in the D&C 87 (http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/ ... lang=eng#1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

But I have never been able to read that section without thinking that Lincoln's War doesn't seem to fit for me. I kinda feel like there is more there....

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pjbrownie
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by pjbrownie »

This one has yet to be verified by me, but here it is again:

Second Great Rebellion or Chicago Quote – A. Milton Musser papers, LDS Church Archives.

This was a letter from Nephi Packard to A. Milton Musser on July 24, 1896:

“… My brother, Noah Packard, says that he heard the Prophet Joseph say that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860′s between the North and the South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner as possible.”

Another quote regarding the Civil War itself comes from an interview by Dr. Poulson with David Whitmer, printed in the Deseret News on Friday, August 16, 1878:

Question: When will the temple be built in Independence?

Answer: Right after the great tribulation is over

Question: What do you mean by that?

Answer: A civil war more bloody and cruel than the rebellion. It will be the smashing up of this nation, about which time the second great work has to be done, a work like Joseph did, and the translation of the sealed plates and peace all over.

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Randy
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Randy »

I little something I would to share. When I was two years old (1949) I hade a dream one night in which I was shown the entire future of the United States. I have never forgotten it. I don't why I had this dream but it helped to shape my life.

In it I was shown that properity would come to America after WWII and there would be incredible growth of cities, communities, and national infrastructure. I saw the Korean War and the damage it did to the spirit of many Americans.
But I also saw a secret evil stealing into America. This was communism and it worked to destroy America from within. Its front was progressive liberalism. It would grow as a snake through the guts of America.

There would be another foriegn war and a President would be shot and killed. The great conspiracy would grow stronger. The guts of America would be twisted and torn apart. Near the end of the 20th century America would be close to collapse but it would continue into the next century. A failure of the money was coming and it was engineered by the very progressives who wanted revolution. Then the land would convulse and so would the people of America. They would rise up against the progressives and seek their blood. War would cover the land. This would be a war of internal collapse and foreign invasion.

The cities would collapse into anarchy. Many would disappear in the coming nuclear attack. It would be as Joseph Smith prophecied and the land would be drenched in blood.

Then plagues and famine would go across the land. Dead bodies would be everywhere.

And yet from this would arise a great cleansing and a great work would begin. The Destroyer will do this work of cleansing.
The great work will be done by the Lord and the members of the Church and we know what that is.

And so my dream ended.

As I say I have never forgotten this. This had special meaning when I grow up in the Cold War and Cuban Missile Crisis and the Viet Nam era. Just as side point most of my graduating high class class of males died in Viet Nam. It was a terrible time.

Randy in Gunnison

fps.sledge
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by fps.sledge »

I dare say, that was probably meant for yourself.

Rand
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Re: Joseph Smith/Civil War

Post by Rand »

Probably, but thanks for sharing none the less.

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