Biggest Misconception about the End Times

[pjbrownie]

I was having a conversation with my brother-in-law (who is smart, educated, an RM, well-versed in the gospel, a typically true blue Mormon) about the last days and he responded about the calamities and the second coming as such:

"I don't think the end of the world is here yet. Christ isn't going to come anytime soon. The missionaries aren't in every nation and temples don't dot every land. Christ will only come when the missionaries get a chance to preach the gospel in every nation.)

While this is technically true, and it's a very popular narrative in the Church. It was what I was taught when I was young, it misses the mark in a few key phrases. First, there is no such thing as the end of the world, only its change. What the phrase, "end of the world" really conjures up in people's minds is something frightening and destructive. While it is that on many levels, it will be creative destruction, for it will be the end of one kingdom, Satan's, and the beginning of another, Christ's. This is often forgotten in this phrase. I tend to avoid it because of it's instant connotation with darkness. I tend to prefer the phrase, "the coming judgments and blessings from God," which is a more accurate statement.

The next misconception is the "Coming of Christ." Most people know academically that this is a process. They're taught this in school, but they don't internalize it. They see it as a one-time event. Christ's coming in glory may be far away, but he has other appearances that are probably much closer in time, such as His appearance at New Jerusalem, Adam Ondi-Ahman, and at Old Jerusalem. For believing and holy Latter-day Saints, the appearance at the temple in New Jerusalem is our coming. It's the one we should be looking for. And this brings us to the concept of missionaries in every land.

It's true that the gospel has to be preached to all the world and then the end comes. But this is a phase shift as well. The scriptures tell us there are three phases 1) the Gentile phase (the one we are currently in but in transition) 2) the phase to the House of Israel with the Jews being last and 3) the mission to the heathens. Each of these transitions will be marked by judgments and blessings. In reality, we have had missionaries in every Gentile nation (those that are Western Christian nations). When the time comes that our missionaries are no longer welcome and they cannot preach, they will be called home (even from the USA which they weren't in WWII). This marks the final end of the mission to the Gentiles. It will be marked by judgments upon the Gentiles and blessings upon those who inherit the Gentiles (the House of Israel). This runs concurrent to the establishment of Zion as a nation on the American continent (for now Zion is spiritual only). New Jerusalem will be part of this phase. It is our Second Coming. The idea that we have to have missionaries in every corner of China, India, and Iran is misleading. This will come later. At this future phase, we are gathering to Zion as a nation the lost of Israel from the Lamanite nations, from Russia, from Europe, from Mongolia, and maybe who knows where else. Finally, the gospel will go to the Jews in one day as they the world unites against them in Armageddon to crush them and after an eathquake kills a third of them, they rush to the Mount of Olives and see Christs (judgement and blessings). Jerusalem and Zion unite and conquer the earth. The remaining nations (the heathen nations) then have their chance at the gospel through the ministry of Israel (the promised blessings of Abraham).

What this all means is that there really are no signs left save the calling home of the missionaries before the Arm of the Lord falls upon the Gentile nations, which will happen because we will be persecuted by the Gentiles. With the turmoil in Europe and the coming turmoil in America because of the economy and secret combinations, it is easy to see this happening very quickly, as quickly as this year or next depending upon what events happen, but there also may be another decade or so where the Lord's mission the Gentiles needs to be fulfilled. We won't know until we know. And America and Utah must be part of this cleansing process.

We must be vigilant and prepared, for when the Lord decides to have His Arm fall upon the Gentiles, it will be because the Gentiles are persecuting us (which is probably why the Elders come home). This will mean that we may have to sustain ourselves as refugees first, political prisoners, and finally natural calamities. We will need food and water and other supplies to make it. This is also part of the cleansing process to prepare the righteous for Zion.

Indeed, this could be close. It is a mistake to believe that none of this will happen until we have a few temples and thousands of Elders all over China and Iran. We need to be vigilant in teaching against this kind of doctrine to our families and friends so they won't be caught unawares.

[gruden]

I think you've made some very good points.

What the phrase, "end of the world" really conjures up in people's minds is something frightening and destructive. While it is that on many levels, it will be creative destruction, for it will be the end of one kingdom, Satan's, and the beginning of another, Christ's. This is often forgotten in this phrase.

It's the end of Babylon. Those who see it as the end of the world are probably too closely associated with it and for them, it is the end of the world.

I don't think that much about the Second Coming, I think of when the time comes for the City of Zion to return. For those who come to live there, that will be their Second Coming. I believe Christ will show Himself often to those living there. That works for me.

I'm with pj, that the next few years will be very interesting.

[pjbrownie]

I like what you said about the fear about the end of Babylon, because that is really what it is. Fears about the end of the world are fears about Babylon ending. I know because I went through it. I actually went through a mourning period where I literally cried about my misconceptions about the future. I could be wrong, but I'm prepared now not to be. I used to imagine living as my grandparents did, raising a family, going to Disneyland every summer, retiring, etc. Now I'm prepared for the time for Zion to come and to live a completely different lifestyle. I think that's what people are afraid of--they're afraid of having a lifestyle change. That's what the end of the world means to them.

I don't judge them per say. They just have hopes and dreams that are based off of a narrative they only know, narratives that have been created by Babylon. We are commanded to live in the world, but not be of the world. We don't how not to live IN the world when the times comes. It's going to be biggest trial of faith for the Saints and most of them are unaware of it.

[JerL]

Wow! I have always felt that the coming of Christ was near, but I didn't have an accurate understanding of the events preceding the Second Coming until a little over a year ago. Since then I have been trying to warn my family, but it mostly goes unheeded. Any time I mention in church that I feel like very difficult times are ahead, only our elders quorum president(who also knows what is coming) is receptive. My parents who are on a mission think I have gone off the deep end.
My wife and I went to a preparedness fair at a local stake house yesterday. It wasn't in our stake, but I was surprised to see how many people we knew from our involvement in politics. My wife commented that those who are watching governments, know something is just around the corner.

[usaf916]

Just found this quote.

John W. Taylor, Conference Report, October 1902, pg. 75. "You will find that many districts where the Elders of Israel cannot reach will be penetrated by these men who have power over death; Š My testimony is that these men are going abroad in the nations of the earth before the face of your sons, and they are preparing the hearts of the children of men to receive the Gospel. They are administering to those who are heirs of salvation, and preparing their hearts to receive the truth, just as the farmer preparers the soil to receive the seed. The Lord has promised that He would send His angels before the face of His servants, and He does so."

[M249Gunner]

So, did you give your thesis to your brother in law and if so, how did he receive it?

[M249Gunner]

I really do hope the end of Babylon is soon. I really hate having such stupid and evil leaders in charge of our government.

[pjbrownie]

So, did you give your thesis to your brother in law and if so, how did he receive it?

He listened and asked more questions of me. It was obvious I knew much more about end times than he did and he wanted to know what to really look for. He still balked at the notion that we could be in New Jerusalem in less than five years. It does seem improbable, but we are basing these conclusions upon a status quo where historical changes have happened slowly (at least since WWII). However, if we have an economic disaster and collapse by summer, these changes could take place very quickly. In 1842 I'm not sure many Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois would know that they would be marking a spot at the end of City Creek at the base of Ensign Peak in a barren desert known as the Great Basin. Now that we have millions of members, and technological advances have increase 1000 fold, who know what could happen in 5 years. We shouldn't go bury our gold, food, and coal out is some farmland and wait out the end of Babylon, but we should be prepared at the drop of a hat to go somewhere and hunker down when the time comes.

[durangout]

[quote="pjbrownie"]

What this all means is that there really are no signs left save the calling home of the missionaries before the Arm of the Lord falls upon the Gentile nations, which will happen because we will be persecuted by the Gentiles. With the turmoil in Europe and the coming turmoil in America because of the economy and secret combinations, it is easy to see this happening very quickly, as quickly as this year or next depending upon what events happen, but there also may be another decade or so where the Lord's mission the Gentiles needs to be fulfilled. We won't know until we know. And America and Utah must be part of this cleansing process.

What I have been wondering about lately is has this sign already been given? The reason I say this is that the number of missionaries are being reduced and missions are being consolodated in Europe right now. It's just possible that that the Elders being "called home" will be so subtle that thiose who aren't looking for it won't even see it happening right before their eyes. Then one day they'll wake up (or maybe not) and there won't be any missionaries in Europe at all and they are only in the American continent.

[Lamoni'sBFF]

RE: common misconception that we are "not in every country yet"

It doesn't say every country, it says “every nation” (Matt 24:14). When Joseph Fielding Smith was president he was going over signs of the times that have already occurred, “The gospel is being preached in all the world as a witness to every nation...all these things are signs of the near approach of our Lord.” (The Signs of the Lord's Coming, The Improvement Era, June 1966, p. 499)

RE: how long it will take for things to happen, once things start to happen...

Destruction Cometh as a Whirlwind

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Mathew 24:37-39
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

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1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


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D&C 63:6
Wherefore, verily I say, let the wicked take heed, and let the rebellious fear and tremble; and let the unbelieving hold their lips, for the day of wrath shall come upon them as a whirlwind, and all flesh shall know that I am God.

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D&C 97:22-24
For behold, and lo, vengeance cometh speedily upon the ungodly as the whirlwind; and who shall escape it?
The Lord’s scourge shall pass over by night and by day, and the report thereof shall vex all people; yea, it shall not be stayed until the Lord come; For the indignation of the Lord is kindled against their abominations and all their wicked works.

-

D&C 112:4
Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.

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PoGP, Matt 1:41-43
41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;
42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;
43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

-

…there is a great universal problem and that the Lord is inspiring his servants to warn the world before the whirlwind strikes. We were driving north on an Oklahoma highway and noted the afternoon sun going out of sight behind the clouds. The grayness got deeper and more ominous. We said, "It looks like a storm brewing." As darkness increased and the winds began to howl, we said, "This storm will be violent." As it broke with all its hellish fury we said, "This rain and wind have become a raging whirlwind." (Spencer W. Kimball, Conference Report, April 1965, Afternoon Meeting, p.60)

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O God, our Father, wilt thou grant us peace and security and safety in the days of tribulation that shall come like a whirlwind upon all the earth. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Ensign (CR), May 1979, p.92)

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The world and many of the Saints abroad and at home are asleep, and that day will overtake them as a thief in the night, and it will come upon them like a whirlwind; and so it will you, if you do not wake up and listen to our words. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:176)

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[kathyn]

I agree that things are speeding along at breakneck speed now. It's very possible that within the next two years, we'll know for sure that we are in the Seventh Seal because we'll have experienced some very traumatic events. Even now, in our area, 80% of our young people (18 and older) have become inactive and it's getting harder to find worthy young people to go on missions. (I got this figure from our stake president in our stake conference last week.) There are missions that are being consolidated and they have very few baptisms anymore. The time of the Gentiles is very close to being through, IMO.

I see our greatest risk as a country is the coming financial collapse. And just following that will probably come an attack against the country. Or the other possibility is that we'll enter another war to stimulate the economy.

As far as the biggest misconception about the End Times, in the Christian world I believe it is the idea of the Rapture occurring before the Tribulations. So many Christians aren't preparing and storing because they are going to be "raptured" and won't have to go through the coming trials. And that will be a bitter pill to swallow for many. At least we know we have to prepare for the future. They are certain to proclaim that the "Lord delayeth His coming".

And the Saints will have had their Second Comings (as in Adam-Ondi-Ahman and New Jerusalem) before the Lord appears to the Jews. And even then, that won't be His coming in glory to the whole world. That will happen even later.

[pjbrownie]

What this all means is that there really are no signs left save the calling home of the missionaries before the Arm of the Lord falls upon the Gentile nations, which will happen because we will be persecuted by the Gentiles. With the turmoil in Europe and the coming turmoil in America because of the economy and secret combinations, it is easy to see this happening very quickly, as quickly as this year or next depending upon what events happen, but there also may be another decade or so where the Lord's mission the Gentiles needs to be fulfilled. We won't know until we know. And America and Utah must be part of this cleansing process.

What I have been wondering about lately is has this sign already been given? The reason I say this is that the number of missionaries are being reduced and missions are being consolodated in Europe right now. It's just possible that that the Elders being "called home" will be so subtle that thiose who aren't looking for it won't even see it happening right before their eyes. Then one day they'll wake up (or maybe not) and there won't be any missionaries in Europe at all and they are only in the American continent.

Could be although I think the missionary reduction has more to do with the church than with its destination countries. This says loads about where we are. I think that a more radical drop would be expected. It needs to at least top how our Elders were sent home during two world wars. In both instances, American missionaries were kept on. My own Grandfather went to California during the war and he came home and was drafted. I think in the scenario outlined in DC 88 the missionaries won't be safe in any Gentile nation, including America.

[Squally]

I was having a conversation with my brother-in-law (who is smart, educated, an RM, well-versed in the gospel, a typically true blue Mormon) about the last days and he responded about the calamities and the second coming as such:

"I don't think the end of the world is here yet. Christ isn't going to come anytime soon. The missionaries aren't in every nation and temples don't dot every land. Christ will only come when the missionaries get a chance to preach the gospel in every nation.)
.....We need to be vigilant in teaching against this kind of doctrine to our families and friends so they won't be caught unawares.

I just had the same discussion with my father-in-law. He gave the exact same response! I think that many are looking at it like this within the church.

I think that things are unraveling fast before my eyes. My wife and I were having a very spiritual discussion tonight about how quickly things are changing all around us, how quickly the schools and children are degrading. How the goverment is openly evil now. How the voice of the people are choosing iniquity as a we speak, which leads to destruction..

Thanks for you insights pjbrownie, I enjoy your insights on the last days.

We are in it now very soon! Seventh seal here we come.

[Zowieink]

PJ in regards to the possibility of New Jerusaem in 5 years, I think you are a little to soon. Much still has to happen...but 10 years maybe. When I think of New Jerusalem I think of what was accomplish in Dubai. In 5 years you have a city which started with basically nothing. Think of what could be accomplish with angels helping to build the place! I have also felt that the events leading to the second coming are not linear but stacked with many prophecies taking place all at the same time. This would shorten the time table tremendously. I can't wait, but am a little fearful for my family and friends, who don't seem to get anything about the end times or how close we are to the termination of Babylon.

[Rose Garden]

Thanks for posting, PJbrownie. I just recently realized the same thing, that the Lord would come first to Zion and then to Jerusalem, and so forth. I have one question for everybody, though, and that is, what about President Monson asking us to pray for countries to open up? I have been praying and watching for things to happen, but of course, nothing has happened. If we are really in all the countries we need to be, then why would President Monson ask us to pray? Anybody have any thoughts on that? By the way, does anyone know how long it was after President Kimball asked people to pray that the Berlin wall fell and all that happened?

[pjbrownie]

Thanks for posting, PJbrownie. I just recently realized the same thing, that the Lord would come first to Zion and then to Jerusalem, and so forth. I have one question for everybody, though, and that is, what about President Monson asking us to pray for countries to open up? I have been praying and watching for things to happen, but of course, nothing has happened. If we are really in all the countries we need to be, then why would President Monson ask us to pray? Anybody have any thoughts on that? By the way, does anyone know how long it was after President Kimball asked people to pray that the Berlin wall fell and all that happened?

Well countries DO have to open up in the next phase. My list of countries that need to open up are all Islamic countries or they are Communist. Here are those that we aren't in that I know of:

Turkey
Syria
Lebanon
Iraq
Iran
Kuwait
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Libya
Let's just say most of Northern Africa Somalia, Chad, Morocco, Algeria, Sudan, Ethiopia
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Turkmenistan
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Azerbaijan
Belarus
China
Sri Lanka
Bangladesh
Burma
Laos
Vietnam
North Korea

I think the only country on this list that would qualify barely as Gentile is Belarus.
Many others like India and Indonesia we are barely in the door.

[pjbrownie]

I forgot to add Malaysia and Nepal.

[Nan]

actually last summer in one of the ensigns they announced a couple countries being dedicated to the start of missionary work. My kids were so excited because we had been praying for it. I believe the two countries were both in africa. I think we just miss it when it is announced.

[Mosby]

In 1842 I'm not sure many Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois would know that they would be marking a spot at the end of City Creek at the base of Ensign Peak in a barren desert known as the Great Basin.

Great point PJ. I was reading in an old Book of Mormon religion manual a few weeks ago and came across an interesting quote by Spencer W. Kimball, I will try and parphrase:

bascially it came down to this- he was speaking in Az to some native members and he spoke of the need for their people to participate in the building of Zion- specifically the temple with their skills of artistry.
But he said "the Lord can and does speed up time according to the righteousness or lack of, his people" - (not a direct quote)

So things can happen fast.

[Joppa]

Just found this quote.

John W. Taylor, Conference Report, October 1902, pg. 75. "You will find that many districts where the Elders of Israel cannot reach will be penetrated by these men who have power over death; Š My testimony is that these men are going abroad in the nations of the earth before the face of your sons, and they are preparing the hearts of the children of men to receive the Gospel. They are administering to those who are heirs of salvation, and preparing their hearts to receive the truth, just as the farmer preparers the soil to receive the seed. The Lord has promised that He would send His angels before the face of His servants, and He does so."

Excellent quote I've had this impression for awhile, there is also the quote by Joseph Fielding Smith that says
"Maybe I have a wrong idea and maybe other members of the Church have incorrect ideas in regard to the preaching of the Gospel. The Lord said it should be declared to every creature. In the passage that I have already quoted to you, the Lord said this Gospel should again be preached in all the world as a witness. How is that Gospel being preached? Are we depending solely upon the missionaries of this Church to carry this message of salvation to the people of the world? If so, it would take us two or three thousand years at the rate our missionaries are going from door to door, delivering their literature and doing as they have been doing for a hundred years, for them to reach all the people.
Insofar as numbers are concerned we are insignificant. We have kept out in the mission field about 2,000 missionaries. What are 2,000 missionaries among the billions of humanity? Not very much. So, if the Lord was dependent solely upon the missionaries, it would take a long time to get this message to all the world; but I think the Lord is using other means and has been using other means in order to help carry this message to the world. Some of us might have to modify what we have thought about the Gospel being preached. I remember here some years back in what we are pleased to call the Reed Smoot case. Reed Smoot was not on trial—it was the Church—and our brethren were called to Washington and had to testify, the Doctrine and Covenants and Book of Mormon were placed in evidence and the doctrines of the Church were telegraphed to every part of the world and many things were said in regard to the organization of the Church, Joseph Smith, his claim that angels came to him, that he saw the Father and the Son, and that he organized this Church by command of holy messengers that came from the presence of God, and all of that was put in the official record.Don't you think the Lord was doing something to get this message before the world in fulfillment of that prediction that the Gospel should be preached? I think so. People come to me sometimes and say, "Have we ever had missionaries in Russia?" Yes, but they did not do very much. "Have we ever had missionaries in China?" Yes, but they did not accomplish very much. "Have we ever had any in Spain?" I do not know, but everywhere in these countries people have heard of the Mormons. It is true a lot of things went out in the press in those days that were evil. The enemies of the Church got their words in, too, but nevertheless the attention of the world was called to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and its claim as having been established by the opening of the heavens and the coming of angels."

[reese]

In 1842 I'm not sure many Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois would know that they would be marking a spot at the end of City Creek at the base of Ensign Peak in a barren desert known as the Great Basin.

Great point PJ. I was reading in an old Book of Mormon religion manual a few weeks ago and came across an interesting quote by Spencer W. Kimball, I will try and parphrase:

bascially it came down to this- he was speaking in Az to some native members and he spoke of the need for their people to participate in the building of Zion- specifically the temple with their skills of artistry.
But he said "the Lord can and does speed up time according to the righteousness or lack of, his people" - (not a direct quote)

So things can happen fast.

So does this mean the Lord will speed things up because His people are righteous, or He will speed things up because His people are wicked?
I have heard people say we could bring zion about sooner if we would be more righteous. Is this true? I have always thought that the Lord would establish zion on His timetable, whether we are ready or not.

[pjbrownie]

I think the mission phases (Gentile, Israel, and Heathen) could also be characterized by the nature of the missions.

Gentile mission - two by two into all the world, gathering out the chosen and lost of Israel (mostly Ephraim but also other houses) from among the Gentile nations. This mission comes out from under the Gentile leadership of the Church through the Gentile economy and culture which we are in in now.

Mission to the House of Israel - Mission of the 144,000 in great power and authority with angels attending. Great miracles and will happen under the authority of each House of Israel and under a new culture and economy known as Zion. The mission is to gather the chosen of Israel out from the former Gentile nations now under the command of the great heathen nations of the earth and also from the heathen nations from the poor spots of the vineyard and bring them over the troubled waters (also casting up highways) and bringing them to Zion. The final phase of this mission of the two prophets to the Jews.

Mission to the Heathens - Once the armies of the heathen are vanquished at Armageddon and Zion rules the earth, the mission will be one of the rulers to the conquered (in love but in charge). Every person at this time must have a chance to accept the gospel. Then Christ comes in glory.

I think the nature and phase of these missions coincide with the wickedness of the world. When the world is no longer willing to receive the missionaries in the current mission phase now constituted, it will force the Lord's hand to move and prepare for the next phase. We will have to respond with the righteousness necessary to complete the next phase, but I think the impetuous is on the world, not on the Saints. We will be tried because we will be forced to respond and our righteousness will be accelerate when the next phase commences after the Arm of the Lord falls.

[Lamoni'sBFF]

Just found this quote.

John W. Taylor, Conference Report, October 1902, pg. 75. "You will find that many districts where the Elders of Israel cannot reach will be penetrated by these men who have power over death; Š My testimony is that these men are going abroad in the nations of the earth before the face of your sons, and they are preparing the hearts of the children of men to receive the Gospel. They are administering to those who are heirs of salvation, and preparing their hearts to receive the truth, just as the farmer preparers the soil to receive the seed. The Lord has promised that He would send His angels before the face of His servants, and He does so."

Excellent quote I've had this impression for awhile, there is also the quote by Joseph Fielding Smith that says
"Maybe I have a wrong idea and maybe other members of the Church have incorrect ideas in regard to the preaching of the Gospel. The Lord said it should be declared to every creature. In the passage that I have already quoted to you, the Lord said this Gospel should again be preached in all the world as a witness. How is that Gospel being preached? Are we depending solely upon the missionaries of this Church to carry this message of salvation to the people of the world? If so, it would take us two or three thousand years at the rate our missionaries are going from door to door, delivering their literature and doing as they have been doing for a hundred years, for them to reach all the people.
Insofar as numbers are concerned we are insignificant. We have kept out in the mission field about 2,000 missionaries. What are 2,000 missionaries among the billions of humanity? Not very much. So, if the Lord was dependent solely upon the missionaries, it would take a long time to get this message to all the world; but I think the Lord is using other means and has been using other means in order to help carry this message to the world. Some of us might have to modify what we have thought about the Gospel being preached. I remember here some years back in what we are pleased to call the Reed Smoot case. Reed Smoot was not on trial—it was the Church—and our brethren were called to Washington and had to testify, the Doctrine and Covenants and Book of Mormon were placed in evidence and the doctrines of the Church were telegraphed to every part of the world and many things were said in regard to the organization of the Church, Joseph Smith, his claim that angels came to him, that he saw the Father and the Son, and that he organized this Church by command of holy messengers that came from the presence of God, and all of that was put in the official record.Don't you think the Lord was doing something to get this message before the world in fulfillment of that prediction that the Gospel should be preached? I think so. People come to me sometimes and say, "Have we ever had missionaries in Russia?" Yes, but they did not do very much. "Have we ever had missionaries in China?" Yes, but they did not accomplish very much. "Have we ever had any in Spain?" I do not know, but everywhere in these countries people have heard of the Mormons. It is true a lot of things went out in the press in those days that were evil. The enemies of the Church got their words in, too, but nevertheless the attention of the world was called to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and its claim as having been established by the opening of the heavens and the coming of angels."

Joppa,
That is a great quote. I did a google exact phrase search on a few phrases in there and couldn't come up with any hits. Any idea where that is found so I can document it and add it to my collection?
thanks

[Mosby]

So does this mean the Lord will speed things up because His people are righteous, or He will speed things up because His people are wicked?
I have heard people say we could bring zion about sooner if we would be more righteous. Is this true? I have always thought that the Lord would establish zion on His timetable, whether we are ready or not.

I'm thinking (but I'm no expert) - both. Righteous means quicker some times- think city of enoch. and wicked means quicker as in being destroyed sooner.

Just a guess.

[Joppa]

Just found this quote.

John W. Taylor, Conference Report, October 1902, pg. 75. "You will find that many districts where the Elders of Israel cannot reach will be penetrated by these men who have power over death; Š My testimony is that these men are going abroad in the nations of the earth before the face of your sons, and they are preparing the hearts of the children of men to receive the Gospel. They are administering to those who are heirs of salvation, and preparing their hearts to receive the truth, just as the farmer preparers the soil to receive the seed. The Lord has promised that He would send His angels before the face of His servants, and He does so."

Excellent quote I've had this impression for awhile, there is also the quote by Joseph Fielding Smith that says
"Maybe I have a wrong idea and maybe other members of the Church have incorrect ideas in regard to the preaching of the Gospel. The Lord said it should be declared to every creature. In the passage that I have already quoted to you, the Lord said this Gospel should again be preached in all the world as a witness. How is that Gospel being preached? Are we depending solely upon the missionaries of this Church to carry this message of salvation to the people of the world? If so, it would take us two or three thousand years at the rate our missionaries are going from door to door, delivering their literature and doing as they have been doing for a hundred years, for them to reach all the people.
Insofar as numbers are concerned we are insignificant. We have kept out in the mission field about 2,000 missionaries. What are 2,000 missionaries among the billions of humanity? Not very much. So, if the Lord was dependent solely upon the missionaries, it would take a long time to get this message to all the world; but I think the Lord is using other means and has been using other means in order to help carry this message to the world. Some of us might have to modify what we have thought about the Gospel being preached. I remember here some years back in what we are pleased to call the Reed Smoot case. Reed Smoot was not on trial—it was the Church—and our brethren were called to Washington and had to testify, the Doctrine and Covenants and Book of Mormon were placed in evidence and the doctrines of the Church were telegraphed to every part of the world and many things were said in regard to the organization of the Church, Joseph Smith, his claim that angels came to him, that he saw the Father and the Son, and that he organized this Church by command of holy messengers that came from the presence of God, and all of that was put in the official record.Don't you think the Lord was doing something to get this message before the world in fulfillment of that prediction that the Gospel should be preached? I think so. People come to me sometimes and say, "Have we ever had missionaries in Russia?" Yes, but they did not do very much. "Have we ever had missionaries in China?" Yes, but they did not accomplish very much. "Have we ever had any in Spain?" I do not know, but everywhere in these countries people have heard of the Mormons. It is true a lot of things went out in the press in those days that were evil. The enemies of the Church got their words in, too, but nevertheless the attention of the world was called to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and its claim as having been established by the opening of the heavens and the coming of angels."

Joppa,
That is a great quote. I did a google exact phrase search on a few phrases in there and couldn't come up with any hits. Any idea where that is found so I can document it and add it to my collection?
thanks

Sorry i forgot to put the source it's from Signs of the Times by Joseph Fielding Smith pages 65-66