Conspiracy folks... I finally understand

[larsenb]

hogmeister,

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Either you have not been reading my posts over time, or you have the same reading comprehension problem I observed, by so may of your fellow conspiracy folks.

I do believe in secret combinations. I don't believe that everything called a secret combination is true. I think that creating fake secret combinations distracts and harms the credibility of those who do believe in secret combinations. In fact, I am beginning to believe that their may be a secret combination of trying to discredit those who are trying to warn people by inventing ridiculous stories about ridiculous "secret" combinations to discredit all efforts to reveal true evil in this world.

And you guys are falling for it. I guess that is why I am a lone watchman on the wall who is continuously amazed at how rigidly you guys stick together, no matter how evil or false the story. You think you wash yourselves with vague insinuations like "I don't agree with all conspiracy theories" or "HITLER IS NOT A HERO", but embrace the vipers and snakes among you, because I guess all you conspiracy folks need to stick together against us unenlightened "Sheeple".

Regards,

George Clay

Your continous ignorant insults miss their mark. A secret combination that will not defend itself by every availiable means is a ridiculus notion. History is a lot grayer than you naively think. So you believe that the prophet, seer and revelator Ezra Taft Benson is an lds version of Hitler? I see him as the most informed of all our latter day profets regarding the work of Satan in the last days.

Who created/funded the terrorists the globalists so desperately need to move the agenda? The terrorists you list are evil out in the open but I promise you there is evil in hidden places as well.

Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Thanks Hoglund. You've hit on many points I would like to raise with George, but I've never seen George deviate one iota from his point-of-view in all the posts he's floated on this topic. This has led me to the strong suspicion that he is not open to dialogue on this important topic, but will continually bait people to respond to his narrow view, so he can flail them with his. He appears to have a death grip on it.

[gclayjr]

hoglund, larsonb

I am now beginning to understand you guys even more. The reason why none of you will take a firm stand on such filth as Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or Hitler, and Nazis, is because we have a completely different idea of what agreeing with some conspiracies and disagreeing with others means.

I agree that there is a deep state within our government conspiring to bend things to their will. I disagree that Jews throughout history have been plotting the overthrow of the world.

While you guys agree that such disgusting things as described in the Protocols, is a true plot, you may disagree on methods used by Hitler or Islamic terrorists to overthrow this grand conspiracy, but you generally agree with the conspiracies that he blamed for Germany's woes .

So if I understand correctly, the reason why I can't get any kind of strong, clear rejection of either the Protocols, or Hitler from you guys, is that you agree that there is some fundamental correctness in their source beliefs, and if we understood that, then Hitler, and Nazism, while bad, is more of a nuanced issue, because they were fighting against truly evil Zionist plots. Just doing it wrong.

Yea, I have been wasting my time all these years. We have absolutely no common ground that we can come together on.

Thanks for clarifying that. We will never come together.

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

hoglund, larsonb

I am now beginning to understand you guys even more. The reason why none of you will take a firm stand on such filth as Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or Hitler, and Nazis, is because we have a completely different idea of what agreeing with some conspiracies and disagreeing with others means.

I agree that there is a deep state within our government conspiring to bend things to their will. I disagree that Jews throughout history have been plotting the overthrow of the world.

While you guys agree that such disgusting things as described in the Protocols, is a true plot, you may disagree on methods used by Hitler or Islamic terrorists to overthrow this grand conspiracy, but you generally agree with the conspiracies that he blamed for Germany's woes .

So if I understand correctly, the reason why I can't get any kind of strong, clear rejection of either the Protocols, or Hitler from you guys, is that you agree that there is some fundamental correctness in their source beliefs, and if we understood that, then Hitler, and Nazism, while bad, is more of a nuanced issue, because they were fighting against truly evil Zionist plots. Just doing it wrong.

Yea, I have been wasting my time all these years. We have absolutely no common ground that we can come together on.

Thanks for clarifying that. We will never come together.

Regards,

George Clay

Here's the problem I have w/your approach. First, where you say "I disagree that Jews through history have been plotting the overthrow of the world", is your use of 'Jews', your use of 'through history' and finally, your use of the phrase 'overthrow of the world'. This usage is simply too general and too black-and-white. It is fruitless to enter into a discussion with someone using this kind of approach.

The situation is much more complex and nuanced than I think you would want to handle. And I don't see that you've covered pertinent sources on these issues or know anything about them. You seem to be stuck with your sensitivity to any criticism directed toward anyone w/a modicum of Jewish ancestry.

Based on this assessment, yes, we don't have much common ground on these issues. That is why I've said it is a waste of my time to deal with your posts outside of an occasional response, such as this one. You come across as too combative, too defended and too wedded to your own view.

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

[gclayjr]

larsenb,

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

I generally agree with the things you have noted above. You do exaggerate. I am not Jewish, and my issue isn't so much supporting anybody with a drop of Jewish blood, as with not believing in the concept of a grand conspiracy over the centuries, that just coincidentally happens to be perpetrated by Jews, thus justifying blaming (and for some hating) them as a group or class, rather than as simply specific individuals some of whom may be Jewish and some not. Thus the fact that they are Jewish would be irrelevant.

I have a relative named Larson. I apologize for my misspelling of Larsen. I meant no disrespect. I don't even know the difference in ethnicity between Larson and Larsen, so it was not intentional.

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

larsenb,

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

I generally agree with the things you have noted above. You do exaggerate. I am not Jewish, and my issue isn't so much supporting anybody with a drop of Jewish blood, as with not believing in the concept of a grand conspiracy over the centuries, that just coincidentally happens to be perpetrated by Jews, thus justifying blaming (and for some hating) them as a group or class, rather than as simply specific individuals some of whom may be Jewish and some not. Thus the fact that they are Jewish would be irrelevant.

I have a relative named Larson. I apologize for my misspelling of Larsen. I meant no disrespect. I don't even know the difference in ethnicity between Larson and Larsen, so it was not intentional.

Regards,

George Clay

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

[gclayjr]

larsenb, Samuel Höglund

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

So you discovered the Swedish hero Raoul Wallenberg. Great for you. He was a Swede like myself and probably did a lot of good while the rest

...Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Hitler made references to an "Aryan Race" founding a superior type of humanity. The purest stock of Aryans according to Nazi ideology was the Nordic people of Germany, England, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway.[1] The Nazis claimed that Germanic people specifically represented a southern branch of the Aryan-Nordic population

and I agree all Aryans also shouldn't be assumed to be Nazis either.

The more you write the more I understand.


Regards

George Clay

[larsenb]

larsenb, Samuel Höglund

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

So you discovered the Swedish hero Raoul Wallenberg. Great for you. He was a Swede like myself and probably did a lot of good while the rest

...Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Hitler made references to an "Aryan Race" founding a superior type of humanity. The purest stock of Aryans according to Nazi ideology was the Nordic people of Germany, England, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway.[1] The Nazis claimed that Germanic people specifically represented a southern branch of the Aryan-Nordic population

and I agree all Aryans also shouldn't be assumed to be Nazis either.

The more you write the more I understand.

Regards

George Clay

It's always nice to be understood. Thanks.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Gclayjr I'm impressed at your humbleness and diligence in seeking to look at both sides empirically. Then apologizing for your hard nosed stubbornness!! We're glad to have you aboard the conspiracy wagon and here is your official tin foil hat you're going to need it.

[gclayjr]

Son-of-liberty,

Gclayjr I'm impressed at your humbleness and diligence in seeking to look at both sides empirically. Then apologizing for your hard nosed stubbornness!! We're glad to have you aboard the conspiracy wagon and here is your official tin foil hat you're going to need it.

I would like to think of myself as humble and diligent in seeking to look at both sides. However, I don't want to let you believe this under false assumptions. You missed my point.

While I do believe in conspiracies, I do not believe in grand conspiracies over the ages where membership is based upon birth into a family, race, or ethnic group. I have long believed that these specific ridiculous conspiracy theories distract from real conspiracies and therefor do more to distract from discovery true conspiracies, than help.

As an example, I used a well known forgery called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which describes a fake conspiracy of Jewish leaders (bankers) to take over the world, and a document promoted earlier in this thread called "The Greatest story never told", which promotes Adolf Hitler as a misunderstood hero, who is more Christ like than villain as vicious hateful lies. These conspiracy guys seemed to promote that the protocols was not really a forgery, but the evidence of it being a forgery was really part of the conspiracy, and that the situation in Germany with Hitler, was complicated, so considering him evil was too simplistic.

Therefor when I stated that I thought that it was hateful and anti-semitic to believe that people were evil conspirators, because they were Jewish, Bankers, of the family Rothschild, or whatever. Larsenb, graciously (sarcasm) responded that they didn't believe that all Jews were conspirators.

So since Larsenb had self identified himself as Danish, and Hoglund as Swedish, both of the most pure of the Aryan race which is the basis of Nazism, a hateful white supremacist group who used the same documents, and arguments to promote their hateful "final solution" to the Jewish problem. I stated that just as they didn't believe ALL Jews were conspiring to take over the world, I said that I don't believe that all Aryans are Nazis.

So I'm not sure that my message truly got through, but I was indicating that just as it was hateful and condescending to state that they allowed for exceptions and that not every Jew was in the conspiracy, then it was just as hateful and condescending to state that not every Aryan (who believes in a grand Jewish conspiracy) was a Nazi.

I guess the fact that that this fell on deaf ears, means that they don't see how hateful it is to blame Jews for conspiring to take over the world even if they are willing to allow for the idea that maybe some Jews are not actually involved in that conspiracy.

Regards,

George Clay

[Son-of-Liberty]

Hmmm I think their is some miscommunication going on. I don't believe and I don't believe that Larsonb although I Can't necessarily speak for him but following the forum for the last few years I wouldn't say he's like a Jewish xenophobe and neither am I neither are the vast majority of truthers/conspiracy theorists. I believe You're delving too much into the superficial aspect of the conspiracies and only just looking at the surface you're hesitant to go deeper. Why I'm assuming the same reason myself and many others were slow and hesitant to open our minds to these possibilities/evidence. Others will label you crazy stereotype you judge you and since you've been on the opposite side of the spectrum for so lon it's a bit harder to break down those mental barriers. Many conspiracies "CONSPIRACIST THEORISTS" dont necessarily all embrace I noticed you like to categorize and label and group us all into one difintive category. There's those who. Believe the lizard alien belief myself I think this is propagated by the CIA or other intelligence agency's to discredit truth in some conspiracy circles much how you lump us all together so does most of society. In the Book of Mormon they told of grand conspiracies since the beginning of time that's been handed down through the ages to get gain power and glory it was written for our day why would our advancements and the future make grand conspiracies impossible it doesn't. It's not like the Gadiantons went around flaunting their plans not until they had open power over and submission of the people. In parallel to today their is truth and lies good and evil. The adversary seeks to discredit truth and mush lies with truth to discredit and sway people from wading through the poop to find the pearls of wisdom. Many people believe in God yet many think we're crazy much the same some people who are Christians think that the power of satan on this earth is a fairy tale and there are no spirits etc only what we see. This is another grand misconception the satanic cabal worships just as devotedly as us Mormons/Christians disciples of Christ do. Just as we pray to the father and make sacrifices we are blessed. On the other spectrum satanist make literal sacrifice or torture etc and make offerings to satan to get evil blessings fame money fortune etc. Here's a conspiracy for you but if you delve deeper you will notice scary realities if you open your mind this ones easy. The entertainment industry is full of subliminal messaging sports Hollywood music all of these industries are powered by satan and the love of mammon and worship of it. These industries have a direct impact through advertising and because it's entertaining to our youth and the children of God today this has brought about the degradation of society. Here's one for you musicians are nothing more than magicians witches/wizards casting spells on the masses en masse through brain washing techniques of repetiveness. When you sign your name on the line you sell out for fame and fortune but you allow yourself to become a slave to the money sound like anyone we know? Both here in this realm and maybe someone who was evicted from heaven? Hollywood/ Music execs at the highest level worship satan and cast spells and stuff over master copies of CDs etc to thrall the masses. Washington DC is influenced by witchcraft since its founding. Here is another conspiracy that was uncovered to be true pedofilia and rape culture in Hollywood everyone's talked about it for years but with pizzagate and other revelations the tip of the iceberg is clear as day for people to delve into and witness for themselves most won't because of the brilliance of media labeling something pizzagate this screams conspiracy and lies despite it being truthful. These manipulators made pacts with their lives to not reveal these secrets just as in the Book of Mormon. That's why they are so well concealed. It seems crazy but if you open your mind to anything is possible and to use true discernment not putting up walls before you have a chance to delve deeper you will always have these prejudices that are unwarranted against people who seek truth and label them because of a few select fringe groups who are truly whackos much like the rest of society I.E. the great and spacious building pointing laughing at the people trying to stay with the rod and choose and follow truth and righteousness. I could go on for a ever but unless you actually look up some of these things you openly dismiss with an open mind and consider just the possibilities and possible implications and realities if any or all or some of these things are true it would viscerally change your outlook on the world and things. Again I would love to expand as would others but I thought you were being sincere but i think you were just using a bait tactic to try and argue again against the tin foil hat wearers. We would all love to openly talk of these things to you but we're talking past you or to a wall because you are so set in your ways. Don't think for a second many of us also weren't there and this wasn't as hard for us to come to terms with we understand but until your ready to take two steps back look at the big picture look into weird mumbo jumbo that's uncomfortable satanic pedofilia at the highest levels of Power government media entertainment world leaders things if this nature we can't openly talk to you about these things. Because obviously again this post was misleading and a bait tactic to push against "Conspiracy Theorists" you're not openly mocking us your relatively respectful but it's kind of condescending to say what you posted then go lumping us all together as Jew haters and saying all Jews since the beginning of time are guilty of this grand conspiracy i don't think anyone thinks that. It's a very small relative be miniority of people the 1% or less than that to be precise. The rest of society upholds these guys through the system of the beast and manipulation through entertainment media and the legal system which is built to protect the rich and powerful.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Truth is truth is doesn't need to be rubber stamped by those who superficially propagate to advocate for the truth and have sources cited or it's untrue or unproven. Just as we don't need to prove god is real or exists to atheists or others we know it to be true that's all that matters there will not be a rubber stamp on this until Christs return this is something you can take to the bank. Again not everything on YouTube is correct but their is some good content there and in other places on the World Wide Web once you wade through the crap and objectively and empirically with an eye for truth seek to find and locate things you can see and understand without some superficial government or scientist or mthmstician or historian to tell you it's true if this was the case then why are you a Christian or Mormon for that matter...

[gclayjr]

Son-of-Libertuy

I am not accusing you or larsenb of xenophobia, or even anti-antisemitism. I am accusing you of spreading the same lies that the anti-Semites do to justify their anti-antisemitism.

Although you guys admit that you have no solution for overcoming those "Jewish" Zionists who are plotting to take over the world, I do accept that you do consider it evil to hate and kill all Jews.

The problem is that you don't understand that it is also evil to spread the anti-semitic lies used by these guys to justify hating and killing Jews.

Regards,

George Clay

[gclayjr]

Isn't it interesting that those of you who promote eternal Zionist, Jewish Banker, Illuminati, Rothschild conspiracies, so often find it necessary, to testify that despite the anti-semitic roots of these conspiracies, you and you are sure your fellow conspiracy theorists are not at heart anti-Semites. While those of us who do not promote such anti-semitic ideas have no need to make such protestations, because we can let our words and actions speak for themselves.

Regards,

George Clay

[Hogmeister]

Isn't it interesting that those of you who promote eternal Zionist, Jewish Banker, Illuminati, Rothschild conspiracies, so often find it necessary, to testify that despite the anti-semitic roots of these conspiracies, you and you are sure your fellow conspiracy theorists are not at heart anti-Semites. While those of us who do not promote such anti-semitic ideas have no need to make such protestations, because we can let our words and actions speak for themselves.

Regards,

George Clay

George Clay,

You throw despicable baseless accusations and insults based on the fact that I happen to be Swedish and your very superficial research of the Protocols of Zion (haven't even read them)? You sound and behave much like the rabid anti-mormons who would never open the Book of Mormon for themselves and all they know is what other likeminded have written or said about Mormons. They are not open minded enough to find truth and knowledge.

The first key to knowledge is to be open minded (humble) enough to seriously consider the possibility that your current knowledge/understanding is wrong or lacking.

That said, I avoided doing my own research into the Protocols of Zion for a long long time due to the anti-semitic label. Eventuallty I got a strong impression I had to find out for myself what all the intense demagoguery was all about.

(Demagoguery is an appeal to people that plays on their emotions and prejudices rather than on their rational side. Demagoguery is a manipulative approach.)

Unless you search and knock it will never be revealed to you.

Decades ago it was much easier to denounce the Protocols as pure lies and fiction but today they provide the sufficiently openminded reader an uncanny description of our current situation. Maybe it will help to read them after you switch all the Jew references to gentiles and vice versa so you can focus on what they say (the plans) rather than who is saying it. I helps being a banker myself to appreciate the content though.

See, I even admit I'm a banker, the conspiring class, according to the Protocols.

Here is the testimony of another banker but you have to be sufficiently open minded.

Part 1 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VzoaxTudJks
Part 2 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3C-KHt9vi5k

Sincerely,

Samuel

[gclayjr]

Hogmeister,

I didn't say that I haven't read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I said I haven't read ALL of the protocols of the Elders of Zion. While I have read the Quran, I didn't need to read all of to know what a despicable book it is. I also have not read all of the Sunhah to see how despicable that is either. I have read much of Marx, but again I don't have to read all of to know how despicable that is.

This is another standard dodge of you conspiracy folks. If I say I have read certain documents, you guys somehow think that the problem is there is this other document that I should read, then I would REALLY get it. Of course no matter how much I read, there are other documents to read that if I read them, then I would see, Luckily for you guys, there is so much of this stuff, that there are always more documents to suggest.

I have a life, and neither have the time, nor inclination to waste my life reading every conspiracy document out there to see if that one is the one that will convince me.

I'm sure that there are those who are reading this post who have even less time than I do, so I will close with a couple of quotes from the protocols

PROTOCOL No. 1

1. ....Putting aside fine phrases we shall speak of the significance of each thought: by comparisons and deductions we shall throw light upon surrounding facts.

2. What I am about to set forth, then, is our system from the two points of view, that of ourselves and that of the GOYIM [i.e., non-Jews].

3. It must be noted that men with bad instincts are more in number than the good, and therefore the best results in governing them are attained by violence and terrorisation, and not by academic discussions.

Out of the temporary evil we are now compelled to commit will emerge the good of an unshakable rule, which will restore the regular course of the machinery of the national life, brought to naught by liberalism. The result justifies the means. Let us, however, in our plans, direct our attention not so much to what is good and moral as to what is necessary and useful.

WE SHALL END LIBERTY

25. Far back in ancient times we were the first to cry among the masses of the people the words "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," words many times repeated since these days by stupid poll-parrots who, from all sides around, flew down upon these baits and with them carried away the well-being of the world, true freedom of the individual, formerly so well guarded against the pressure of the mob. The would-be wise men of the GOYIM, the intellectuals, could not make anything out of the uttered words in their abstractedness;

POVERTY OUR WEAPON

5. All people are chained down to heavy toil by poverty more firmly than ever. They were chained by slavery and serfdom; from these, one way and another, they might free themselves. These could be settled with, but from want they will never get away. We have included in the constitution such rights as to the masses appear fictitious and not actual rights. All these so-called "Peoples Rights" can exist only in idea, an idea which can never be realized in practical life.

JEWS WILL BE SAFE

11. THIS HATRED WILL BE STILL FURTHER MAGNIFIED BY THE EFFECTS of an ECONOMIC CRISES, which will stop dealing on the exchanges and bring industry to a standstill. We shall create by all the secret subterranean methods open to us and with the aid of gold, which is all in our hands, A UNIVERSAL ECONOMIC CRISES WHEREBY WE SHALL THROW UPON THE STREETS WHOLE MOBS OF WORKERS SIMULTANEOUSLY IN ALL THE COUNTRIES OF EUROPE. These mobs will rush delightedly to shed the blood of those whom, in the simplicity of their ignorance, they have envied from their cradles, and whose property they will then be able to loot.

I could go on, about the passages about using gold, money etc to manipulate leaders into doing the Jewish Zionists will, but just this little bit of the Protocols from the beginning is disgusting enough claptrap describing a phony Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, in a document that has been proven to be a counterfeit, for me.

Regards,

George Clay

[Hogmeister]

Hogmeister,

I didn't say that I haven't read the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I said I haven't read ALL of the protocols of the Elders of Zion. While I have read the Quran, I didn't need to read all of to know what a despicable book it is. I also have not read all of the Sunhah to see how despicable that is either. I have read much of Marx, but again I don't have to read all of to know how despicable that is.

This is another standard dodge of you conspiracy folks. If I say I have read certain documents, you guys somehow think that the problem is there is this other document that I should read, then I would REALLY get it. Of course no matter how much I read, there are other documents to read that if I read them, then I would see, Luckily for you guys, there is so much of this stuff, that there are always more documents to suggest.

I have a life, and neither have the time, nor inclination to waste my life reading every conspiracy document out there to see if that one is the one that will convince me.

I'm sure that there are those who are reading this post who have even less time than I do, so I will close with a couple of quotes from the protocols

PROTOCOL No. 1

1. ....Putting aside fine phrases we shall speak of the significance of each thought: by comparisons and deductions we shall throw light upon surrounding facts.

2. What I am about to set forth, then, is our system from the two points of view, that of ourselves and that of the GOYIM [i.e., non-Jews].

3. It must be noted that men with bad instincts are more in number than the good, and therefore the best results in governing them are attained by violence and terrorisation, and not by academic discussions.

Out of the temporary evil we are now compelled to commit will emerge the good of an unshakable rule, which will restore the regular course of the machinery of the national life, brought to naught by liberalism. The result justifies the means. Let us, however, in our plans, direct our attention not so much to what is good and moral as to what is necessary and useful.

WE SHALL END LIBERTY

25. Far back in ancient times we were the first to cry among the masses of the people the words "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity," words many times repeated since these days by stupid poll-parrots who, from all sides around, flew down upon these baits and with them carried away the well-being of the world, true freedom of the individual, formerly so well guarded against the pressure of the mob. The would-be wise men of the GOYIM, the intellectuals, could not make anything out of the uttered words in their abstractedness;

POVERTY OUR WEAPON

5. All people are chained down to heavy toil by poverty more firmly than ever. They were chained by slavery and serfdom; from these, one way and another, they might free themselves. These could be settled with, but from want they will never get away. We have included in the constitution such rights as to the masses appear fictitious and not actual rights. All these so-called "Peoples Rights" can exist only in idea, an idea which can never be realized in practical life.

JEWS WILL BE SAFE

11. THIS HATRED WILL BE STILL FURTHER MAGNIFIED BY THE EFFECTS of an ECONOMIC CRISES, which will stop dealing on the exchanges and bring industry to a standstill. We shall create by all the secret subterranean methods open to us and with the aid of gold, which is all in our hands, A UNIVERSAL ECONOMIC CRISES WHEREBY WE SHALL THROW UPON THE STREETS WHOLE MOBS OF WORKERS SIMULTANEOUSLY IN ALL THE COUNTRIES OF EUROPE. These mobs will rush delightedly to shed the blood of those whom, in the simplicity of their ignorance, they have envied from their cradles, and whose property they will then be able to loot.

I could go on, about the passages about using gold, money etc to manipulate leaders into doing the Jewish Zionists will, but just this little bit of the Protocols from the beginning is disgusting enough claptrap describing a phony Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, in a document that has been proven to be a counterfeit, for me.

Regards,

George Clay

Clearly you are not openminded or inquisitive enough or have sufficient base understanding of our awful situation and the scriptures to analyse the content of the Protocols and other sources that confirms the scriptures.

I’m done for now.

Sincerely,

Samuel

”I will take gold and silver and buy armies and fleets and priests and tyrants...”

Ether 8:23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles (not Jews?), it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain--and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

[Original_Intent]

My impression of the Protocols is that they are misdirection. The authors of the Protocols outlined exactly what they intended to do, then wrote it in such a way as to shift the blame for the things happening onto the Jews.

I do feel that one specific Ashkenazi Jew, Mayer Amschel Rothschild, is a very central figure in the modern conspiracy. Adam Weishaupt, who I believe was an atheist, I am sure is another key figure within the last few hundred years.

Some instructive reading may be found in "Proofs of a Conspiracy" written by John Robison in 1798. Not light reading, I haven;t read it in its entirety myself. Here is a link for anyone interested.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fno ... 0923195239

It's also available in print for those who (wisely( "don't trust the internet". Of course, being in print doesn't make it true. Read, if you will, and judge.

[gclayjr]

Original_Intent

My impression of the Protocols is that they are misdirection. The authors of the Protocols outlined exactly what they intended to do, then wrote it in such a way as to shift the blame for the things happening onto the Jews.

So is it a true lie or a lying truth?

So the lying truth tellers are blaming the Jews for that witch they ... are they actually the GOYIM (gentile) .. are going to do to ?

So if they aren't actually Jews, what do they gain by telling this Truth, but blaming Jews for this truth?

Why not just say nothing?

The more you guys reveal, the more ridiculous it is, rather than the clearer it becomes.


Regards,

George Clay

[Original_Intent]

It's a lot like Hillary accusing Trump of Russian collusion when in fact she was the one colluding with Russia.

People are going to see what is happening. Very convenient to have it explained in advance and have a scapegoat to blame all the problems on. Especially if it is a scapegoat that you already hate and want destroyed. The Nazis obviously hated the Jewish bankers, aren't they (Nazis) the ones that authored "Protocols"...

[Hogmeister]

My impression of the Protocols is that they are misdirection. The authors of the Protocols outlined exactly what they intended to do, then wrote it in such a way as to shift the blame for the things happening onto the Jews.

I do feel that one specific Ashkenazi Jew, Mayer Amschel Rothschild, is a very central figure in the modern conspiracy. Adam Weishaupt, who I believe was an atheist, I am sure is another key figure within the last few hundred years.

Some instructive reading may be found in "Proofs of a Conspiracy" written by John Robison in 1798. Not light reading, I haven;t read it in its entirety myself. Here is a link for anyone interested.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fno ... 0923195239

It's also available in print for those who (wisely( "don't trust the internet". Of course, being in print doesn't make it true. Read, if you will, and judge.

A good start. As I have said before it is a conspiracy against all humanity Jew and Gentile alike. The Jewish people have suffered from this conspiracy more than most both physically and spiritually.

[Hogmeister]

It's a lot like Hillary accusing Trump of Russian collusion when in fact she was the one colluding with Russia.

People are going to see what is happening. Very convenient to have it explained in advance and have a scapegoat to blame all the problems on. Especially if it is a scapegoat that you already hate and want destroyed. The Nazis obviously hated the Jewish bankers, aren't they (Nazis) the ones that authored "Protocols"...

Nope. The protocols was first published in 1903 in Russia i believe but most believe they are older than that. But yes the Nazis used the protocols.

It is also true there was animosity between the house of Rothschild and the very christian Romanovs of Russia who opposed the grand plans of Rothschild (Congress of Vienna). I have read that apparently one of the Rothschilds (I forgot which one) vowed to destroy the house of Romanov.

[larsenb]

Son-of-liberty,

Gclayjr I'm impressed at your humbleness and diligence in seeking to look at both sides empirically. Then apologizing for your hard nosed stubbornness!! We're glad to have you aboard the conspiracy wagon and here is your official tin foil hat you're going to need it.

I would like to think of myself as humble and diligent in seeking to look at both sides. However, I don't want to let you believe this under false assumptions. You missed my point.

While I do believe in conspiracies, I do not believe in grand conspiracies over the ages where membership is based upon birth into a family, race, or ethnic group. I have long believed that these specific ridiculous conspiracy theories distract from real conspiracies and therefor do more to distract from discovery true conspiracies, than help.

As an example, I used a well known forgery called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which describes a fake conspiracy of Jewish leaders (bankers) to take over the world, and a document promoted earlier in this thread called "The Greatest story never told", which promotes Adolf Hitler as a misunderstood hero, who is more Christ like than villain as vicious hateful lies. These conspiracy guys seemed to promote that the protocols was not really a forgery, but the evidence of it being a forgery was really part of the conspiracy, and that the situation in Germany with Hitler, was complicated, so considering him evil was too simplistic.

Therefor when I stated that I thought that it was hateful and anti-semitic to believe that people were evil conspirators, because they were Jewish, Bankers, of the family Rothschild, or whatever. Larsenb, graciously (sarcasm) responded that they didn't believe that all Jews were conspirators.

So since Larsenb had self identified himself as Danish, and Hoglund as Swedish, both of the most pure of the Aryan race which is the basis of Nazism, a hateful white supremacist group who used the same documents, and arguments to promote their hateful "final solution" to the Jewish problem. I stated that just as they didn't believe ALL Jews were conspiring to take over the world, I said that I don't believe that all Aryans are Nazis.

So I'm not sure that my message truly got through, but I was indicating that just as it was hateful and condescending to state that they allowed for exceptions and that not every Jew was in the conspiracy, then it was just as hateful and condescending to state that not every Aryan (who believes in a grand Jewish conspiracy) was a Nazi.

I guess the fact that that this fell on deaf ears, means that they don't see how hateful it is to blame Jews for conspiring to take over the world even if they are willing to allow for the idea that maybe some Jews are not actually involved in that conspiracy.

Regards,

George Clay

Why exclude family, race or ethnic group from conspiracy requirements? The Italian Mafia is a clear example of a ‘grand conspiracy” that requires Italian, and more specifically, Sicilian ancestry. You could say the same thing about the ‘Jewish Mafia’ or the Corsican Mafia. This is not very logical stance. I've brought this up before . . . the deaf ears syndrome.

Regarding the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, there is significant dispute whether or not they are forgeries. You can find Jews who argue that they are not, and with good reasons.

I was not being sarcastic or non-gracious at all when you seemed to finally understand my position. Once again: to believe “that people were evil conspirators, because they were Jewish”, or any other ethnicity or profession, is stupid. Nobody I’m aware of on this forum is doing anything like that, yet you, once again raise this very strawman argument and accusation.

I, for one, have NEVER thought of myself as being ‘Aryan’. My ancestry is actually about 20 % Brit Celtic, 52% Scandinavian and 10% French. The whole ‘Aryan’ thing you seem to be hung up on isn’t worth any further comment.

And your last paragraph shows you still don’t get it. I withdraw any complements I gave you earlier. You’re reasoning is as foggy as ever.

[larsenb]

Son-of-Libertuy

I am not accusing you or larsenb of xenophobia, or even anti-antisemitism. I am accusing you of spreading the same lies that the anti-Semites do to justify their anti-antisemitism.

Although you guys admit that you have no solution for overcoming those "Jewish" Zionists who are plotting to take over the world, I do accept that you do consider it evil to hate and kill all Jews.

The problem is that you don't understand that it is also evil to spread the anti-semitic lies used by these guys to justify hating and killing Jews.

Regards,

George Clay

The real problem George, as I see it, is that you seem to be caught up in the idea that the Jewish contingent of our population is above reproach, mainly because of what they suffered at the hands of the Nazi's. But that is the very meme that has been promulgated by those one might label as being Zionists. You seem to be trapped by that meme. Oh, well.

[larsenb]

My impression of the Protocols is that they are misdirection. The authors of the Protocols outlined exactly what they intended to do, then wrote it in such a way as to shift the blame for the things happening onto the Jews.

I do feel that one specific Ashkenazi Jew, Mayer Amschel Rothschild, is a very central figure in the modern conspiracy. Adam Weishaupt, who I believe was an atheist, I am sure is another key figure within the last few hundred years.

Some instructive reading may be found in "Proofs of a Conspiracy" written by John Robison in 1798. Not light reading, I haven;t read it in its entirety myself. Here is a link for anyone interested.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fno ... 0923195239

It's also available in print for those who (wisely( "don't trust the internet". Of course, being in print doesn't make it true. Read, if you will, and judge.

Just one comment: 'not trusting the internet', is a bit extreme. The internet reflects reality. You simply have to become your own editor to sift and evaluate what you encounter there . . . and corroborate your information from different sources that don't all come from the same echo chamber.

[larsenb]

Original_Intent

My impression of the Protocols is that they are misdirection. The authors of the Protocols outlined exactly what they intended to do, then wrote it in such a way as to shift the blame for the things happening onto the Jews.

So is it a true lie or a lying truth?

So the lying truth tellers are blaming the Jews for that witch they ... are they actually the GOYIM (gentile) .. are going to do to ?

So if they aren't actually Jews, what do they gain by telling this Truth, but blaming Jews for this truth?

Why not just say nothing?

The more you guys reveal, the more ridiculous it is, rather than the clearer it becomes.


Regards,

George Clay

You seem to have a strong, strong tendency to 'lump' and generalize. Exactly what you accuse your so-called 'conspiracy theorists' of doing. That is probably why not many people get much satisfaction in trying to dialogue with you.