Are we losing our freedoms?

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
jfb55
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 5
Location: Terre Haute, IN

Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by jfb55 »

Do you believe that Americans are coming closer to losing the freedoms guaranteed them by the bill of rights? If so, do you think this is the time prophesied in which the constitution will "hang by a thread?"

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

2024

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

From an article FREEDOMS UNDER ATTACK

1. Individual Liberty: While the US constitution does not specifically defend the full range of individual rights, no other legal system has ever come as close to safeguarding them as this product of the 18th century. The main thrust of attack has been to use a provoked and somewhat phony war on terror to justify the diminution of rights spelled out in the first 10 amendments to the constitution:
a. Right to a Speedy Trial by a Jury of One’s Peers. The speedy trial provision was successfully denied a US citizen (Jose Padilla) under the excuse that since he hadn’t been charged with a crime, the speedy trial clock doesn’t apply yet—essentially justifying indefinite detention as long as no charges are filed. The jury trial of one’s peers has become a hollow principle through arbitrary jury selection rules, and judicial limits on who merits a jury trial. Judicial rules have also mandated that a jury abide by a judge’s instructions to the jury, essentially denying the long traditional role of juries to judge both the facts and whether the law is just or applied equitably to the circumstances.

b. Habeas Corpus: The right to force government to “produce the body” of the accused and show cause why he or she is being held. This right protects against indefinite detention without charge. It was reduced to a near meaningless state by the NDAA provision granting government the permissive power to arrest and hold indefinitely anyone merely suspected of being a terrorist or enemy of the US government.

c. Due Process: The 14th Amendment prohibited arbitrary government actions that did not follow due process requirements of the law. Executive departments like the EPA and FDA have taken upon themselves arbitrary powers that can condemn property or individual health supplements without due process. Due process is not a sure defense against the erosion of liberty, only that the bureaucrats must follow the law. When the law becomes evil, liberty is lost even under due process. All that due process demands is that takings or restrictions be open and lawful—which tyranny is many times loath to allow.

2. Freedom of Contract and Personal Judgments: this right is the essence of the Free Market—the right to make voluntary agreements with others as long as the rights of others are not threatened. The right to judge people or products as good or bad or in between is also essential to liberty. Laws restricting your right to know about dangerous product content such as pesticides, preservatives or GMO ingredients are a violation of your right to know. Anti-discrimination laws which preclude you from making a decision about associating in business and commerce with “protected minorities” (which now includes homosexuals, and transsexuals in some areas) —even on your own property—is a violation of your right of association and disassociation. It started with the Civil Rights Act which deemed any private home or business open to the general public as a public business—not private.

3. Property Rights possessed by individuals: A lot of individual rights are tied to private property—free speech, religion, privacy, association and contracts, personal corruption, etc. The concept is that you can do anything on your own property as long as you not are adversely affecting the legitimate rights of others on their property. It’s a natural law of separating competing interests when mutual agreement can’t be reached. Property rights are the target of sustainable development controls (Agenda 21), statewide land-use planning, environmental protection, excessive water controls and property taxes for things not associated with the defense of property (schools, etc).

4. Individual Right to Self-Defense against Crime AND Tyranny: The Constitution’s Second Amendment is an individual right, but was coupled with the concept of a militia to ensure that this right shall not be interpreted as a mere extension of hunting or self-defense rights—but also the right of individuals to engage in the defense of the nation when under threat of tyranny. That’s why the possession of military grade weapons is part of that right.
The globalists are fully aware that any right enshrined in constitutional language is extremely difficult to overcome. That is why they engage in constant attempts to turn voters against gun rights by creating false flag attacks on innocent citizens and even young children.

5. Right to Worship God According to the Dictates of Individual Conscience: The attack on individual rights also targets true religion not only because religious expression is a natural right but that this conspiracy is ultimately satanic in nature, and hostile to God. The First Amendment prohibition against the establishment of religion by government is a one-way separation. It prohibits government from dictating, restricting or attempting to influence religion, but it doesn’t prohibit religious influence in government as long as that influence is merely that of an individual or group expressing their individual or combined rights of expression. Religious expression is just as valid relative to government as a political party. While the government rightfully prohibits general tax funds from being used to promulgate specific religious values, it has wrongfully prohibited individuals from expressing and promoting religious values in the public arena, including schools.

Public schooling is a particular problem in liberty because it has a wrongful monopoly on tax funds, which cannot rightfully be used to promote values that are not uniformly acceptable to all taxpayers—lest a minority always feel their funds have been misused and work against their beliefs. That is why the real solution to public school restrictions on religion is to strip public schools of their monopoly on taxes and turn them into schools supported only by user fees of those who attend. All other non users are free to take their money where their particular values are supported—end of problem. Of course, supporters of public schools would quickly find they can’t afford to pay for the lavish buildings furnished by taking money from everyone.

6. Right of a Free Press: The free sharing of information and the exposing of error are essential purposes that must be protected by law. The globalists took control of the private press by buying them out over a 50 year period and replacing partisan editors with establishment hacks. All that was legal, even though prejudicial to the full exposition of truth.
Now, with the rise of the internet, the world has never had greater liberty to publish anti-government criticism with little cost. That is why, in the name of protecting against copyright infringement and child pornography the internet is being targeted for strict controls with draconian powers to shut down sites critical of government on a variety of pretexts.

7. Right of Free Speech: Free speech is an extension of private property rights and the right of contract. You don’t have the right to say anything you want or broadcast your views on another’s property except by permission, but the constitution’s founding fathers wanted to especially protect the right to speak out publically against tyranny and to be able to criticize government and expose illegal government activities. While our government has paid lip service to the right to petition the government for redress of grievances, those petitions are hardly ever heard—especially by elected representatives.
Even worse is the treatment of whistleblowers exposing illegal black operations by the CIA, DEA, NSA, FEMA, DHS, or the military. Although officially protected by law, the government has consistently failed to stop harassment and prosecution of whistleblowers.

8. Right to Privacy: While there is no stated right to privacy in the constitution, it is assumed under the strict 4th Amendment prohibition against warrantless searches of private property, papers or one’s person. Whistleblowers have detailed how the NSA spies on every means of electronic communication—telephone, email, and radio. Worse, judges are in collusion with government on this and routinely deny any legal challenges to the claimed executive State Privilege. I will state it openly: government isn’t spying to protect us from crime or terror. They are spying to track dissidents and critics.

9: Freedom of Movement: The freedom to travel freely and change locations at will is essential to taking advantage of state and national differences that may provide different levels of opportunity and protection of rights. Competing governments create different levels of personal freedom, rules and taxation. Thus, being able to “vote with your feet” is essential to liberty, and globalists don’t want people to have a wide variety of choice. They have conjured up threats of terror to justify draconian travel restrictions controls by the TSA. This has become a key element in restricting this freedom of movement and converting it into a government privilege “by permission” only.
In contrast, the globalists in both the US and Europe have continued to foment free movement for foreign nationals, and failed to effective prosecute illegal aliens, so that there exists a continual flood of counter-western culture moving into traditional Caucasian nations and diluting western values. The end result is increased conflict between non-compatible cultures.

10. National Sovereignty: More and more children are being indoctrinated with the notion of being “citizens of the world” rather than being proud of national citizenship. Technically, there is nothing wrong with a world federation of sovereign nations as long as proper constitutional limits protect individual, state and national sovereignty within their respective territories, with clear lines of demarcation between jurisdiction and powers. Sadly, since the US Constitution of 1787 virtually every constitution written for emerging nations and regional governments have institutionalized socialism and only given conflicting lip service to individual freedom.
The main attack on national sovereignty is occurring via wars of intervention, in the name of ridding the world of rogue dictators and establishing democracy. Sure, none of these nations are lead by anything but tyrants, but the West has dealt with them for decades. What we are replacing them with is just as bad, or worse. These conflicts will never be fully resolved, nor will these tribal nations ever have anything but manipulated democracies. In many cases some form of international “peacekeeping” is kept in place to maintain control—the foot in the door to world occupation.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

When a Prophet tells us that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.", what should we Latter-day Saints do about it ? Do Latter-day Saints have an obligation to do something about it ? If so, what ?

User avatar
mes5464
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 29570
Location: Seneca, South Carolina

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by mes5464 »

jfb55 wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 10:06 pm Do you believe that Americans are coming closer to losing the freedoms guaranteed them by the bill of rights? If so, do you think this is the time prophesied in which the constitution will "hang by a thread?"
We have already lost our rights under the bill of rights.
The constitution already hangs by a thread.

Seek the Truth
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3511

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by Seek the Truth »

jfb55 wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 10:06 pm Do you believe that Americans are coming closer to losing the freedoms guaranteed them by the bill of rights? If so, do you think this is the time prophesied in which the constitution will "hang by a thread?"
We've been losing our freedoms bit by but since the founding of the Federal Reserve.

User avatar
harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by harakim »

I concur that while we do exercise our freedoms and there is generally not reprisal for it, laws counteracting each of the amendments are in place, thus appearing to render them void to onlookers who don't understand the Constitution. Exercising the freedoms in the Bill of Rights could be, and is being, punished "legally" at any time deemed profitable to the forces of Satan at the helm of our government.

Vision
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2324
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by Vision »

We have to remember what the Nephites fought for in the BOM, it wasn't freedom, it was Liberty. They are similar but very different. We also mistake consumerism for freedom in America. Being able to choose from 35 different varieties of cereal at the grocery store is not freedom. If we had liberty we would be free from the bondage we are in because our neighbors control our property with the help of zoning ordinances. If we had liberty we would not be under the threat of violence if we don't pay taxes. I could go on and on.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

The actions of the Fed that foment the depreciation of the purchasing power of our currency amount to theft of a lot of our wealth (money or whatever) are a loss of our freedom to use/spend it as we wish.

User avatar
friendsofthe
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1904
Location: Payson, Utah
Contact:

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by friendsofthe »

In D&C 103 the Lord tells us that the saints “must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm”, we read:
15 Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;
16 Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.
17 For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.
Not only will he liberate us from the bondage we are under when the “abomination of desolation” brings a swift end to this nation but he will then lead us to Zion and the Second Coming, says he:
20 But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.
So this is the end and conclusion of the whole matter, the Gentiles as a whole are not going to repent and so they are to be “cut off”, says the Lord in 3 Ne. 21:
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
The “abomination of desolation”, nuclear WWIII will signal a hasty end to the day of the Gentiles and the ushering in Christ’s millennial reign….. The Lord will rescue the righteous from a Satanic plot destroy them….

See this blog for more details about this plot…

http://thebridegroomcometh.net/and-ye-s ... ames-sake/

awar_e
captain of 100
Posts: 392

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by awar_e »

lundbaek wrote: September 4th, 2017, 10:01 am When a Prophet tells us that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.", what should we Latter-day Saints do about it ? Do Latter-day Saints have an obligation to do something about it ? If so, what ?
I moved to the Philippines the first of March.
It is interesting to see the US still rushing to ignore scriptures as they speak of our day.
The world is quickly learning how to feed people with Aquaponics, while Utah prevents hatcheries from selling non sterilized fish so you can raise fish and vegetables in a closed loop.
Is "freedom" still in dictionaries in Utah public schools?

Benjamin_LK
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2502
Location: Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by Benjamin_LK »

jfb55 wrote: September 3rd, 2017, 10:06 pm Do you believe that Americans are coming closer to losing the freedoms guaranteed them by the bill of rights? If so, do you think this is the time prophesied in which the constitution will "hang by a thread?"
We're already there. The wicked combination is far less secret and pretty much celebrating. It's only a matter of time before the Gentiles amplify their rage against God and his covenant, followed by the downfall of the gentile nations.

shugitokiprof
Hi, I'm new.
Posts: 1

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by shugitokiprof »

Why do you ask? For me freedom has different meanings and it differs on how you interpret each meanings. Freedom is the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint or lets say the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved.? is that what your referring?
I believe you just have uncertainties in life. according to this article https://ponbee.com/dealing-with-uncertainty/ you need to acknowledge the idea of uncertainty and to let you know the problem here is not freedom it's the way our mind think.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

There is a lot more to freedom than just what you may consider the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

There are a couple of freedoms I very much feel the loss of at this point in my life.

One is the freedom from depreciation of the money that we have saved and the lessening of the purchasing power of our fixed retirement income. This I believe to be caused mostly by the inflation of our currency by the Fed.

The other is the freedom business and rental property owners have to discriminate in their hiring/firing, rental, and service practices Re. people whom they choose not to associate or do business with.

And a third freedom I miss is that of the LDS Church to feel free to promote the principles of the U.S. Constitution (in the tradition of the Founding Fathers) and to openly warn people of the secret combination that Moroni told us "seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries", as it did up until 29 years ago.

Vision
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2324
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by Vision »

lundbaek wrote: September 6th, 2017, 5:17 pm The actions of the Fed that foment the depreciation of the purchasing power of our currency amount to theft of a lot of our wealth (money or whatever) are a loss of our freedom to use/spend it as we wish.
The fed doesn't raise taxes.

buffalo_girl
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7017

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by buffalo_girl »

Since drone technology has been given the go ahead here in North Dakota, we see them regularly 'snooping' over our land. For what purpose, I do NOT know!

Our county property tax assessor has created a Geographic Information System (GIS) which allows updates on what improvements we might be doing on our property. The county sheriff uses a highly advanced military small drone to zip around outside of town. The sheriff's department has five new vehicles for a county with a population of less than 3500. By using a drone he doesn't have to worry about getting his pickup and squad cars dusty in a county with mostly dirt roads.

Our property taxes just keep increasing.

gardener4life
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1690

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by gardener4life »

lundbaek wrote: September 4th, 2017, 10:01 am When a Prophet tells us that "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.", what should we Latter-day Saints do about it ? Do Latter-day Saints have an obligation to do something about it ? If so, what ?
Good question!

For now we just keep trying to build up Zion as quickly and quietly as possible. If possible we are invited to escalate our faith (to help others, be united, do fruits, be active) while there is opportunity to work. It is important also to see that as we see the world falling more this is when we tighten and escalate doing good. The stakes are higher now (hah a Zion pun.) Remember the scriptures...

3 Nephi 27:33
...at the strait gate; for strait is the gate, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and few there be that find it; but wide is the gate, and broad the way which leads to death, and many there be that travel therein, until the night cometh, wherein no man can work. (Also JST, Luke 12:41, John 9:4). When is the night that cometh? That is the time period where the missionaries are called home and we're not able to work.

So we still have time to work. Time to build and do good. But the night that cometh, we will know. A change when the missionaries have to go home for example... could be that night couldn't it? What else could the night mean? It's describing a time period where we can't work. That's a suggestion of course. But I think it is the right one. Also what can we also tell of that time when the night cometh? Remember the parables of the 10 virgins, and also the parables of how grain is threshed. The threshing of grain is a process where the tares and wheat are separated by a very intensive process. And it just so happens that there was an article about that in the Ensign either last month or this month. Coincidence? I think not.

I felt an inspiration recently that I felt this is a good time to escalate our faith. I think its a good time for others to escalate the fruits of their faith too, but within what's reasonable for within their abilities without suffering harm. Its OK to be in a pace that you can do...within your own strength.

But we can do that escalate our faith, without sticking our neck out yet in standing out too much in front of the world. We try to not be noticed. Standing too much isn't so good yet. You will see a time sometime in our lifetimes where people will get to a point where the world is so far separated from being able to live the gospel that a separation between the church and the world will occcur. It's inevitable. It will happen. It doesn't mean it will happen right now but the Lord will help us to know when. It might be a while longer. But when that happens I think then it will be like we are invited (But not forced or commanded to do something different then.). Some people will fall away then thinking inviting means its just extra and not something really necessary like home teaching, etc. But when that happens people will be tricked by the idea that we won't be commanded to stay with Zion. We'll only be invited and encouraged; not forced. Or they'll be caught up in other family members not wanting to go and thinking they should stay with them at home (which isn't a good idea.) The ones that love Jesus and Zion will stay with it despite sacrifice. The others won't. But when the separation happens there's a scriptural allegory to it...several...(Did you know that the Israelites that stayed in Egypt when the others left with Moses, had most of them die? I think this is a reference for it.) (Another reference is that in the Book of Mormon; a very often overlooked series of verses that almost nobody notices; Omni 1:12,13 and the rest of the chapter...King Mosiah was told by the Lord it was time to leave and 'separate from Babylon'. He even references a type of this in verses 6,7. Verse 5 is key in this chapter(book)).

Coming back to your main point. We should avoid sticking out too much until everyone its the right time to do so. For now we're invited to stand in holy places. We see in the scriptures that we just prepare, exercise faith, stay in holy places, and be ready. But we won't have to worry about a signal to go. We'll be told if and when we need to do something different. For now we just escalate our faith.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

From "The Life of J. Reuben Clark" by W. Cleon Skousen

"But the Lord isn’t going to allow this government to be destroyed. Although administrations may destroy themselves, systems may destroy themselves, this country’s going to survive. J. Reuben Clark knew how it would survive: build track two. Don’t get in front of that train on track one, it will just run over you. You quietly build track two.

"Sometimes people say, “Dr. Skousen, you spent your whole life studying these things that have gone wrong, with the attack on the Constitution and everything. Why are you so optimistic?”

"I say to them, “I read the book, and in the end, we win.” Now, it’s on track two that we win. J. Reuben Clark never lost confidence in having a generation finally become alert, and finally doing its homework, and getting into a position where they would do what God and the Founding Fathers intended that we should have been doing all the time.
"Sometimes people say, “Dr. Skousen, you spent your whole life studying these things that have gone wrong, with the attack on the Constitution and everything. Why are you so optimistic?”

"I say to them, “I read the book, and in the end, we win.” Now, it’s on track two that we win. J. Reuben Clark never lost confidence in having a generation finally become alert, and finally doing its homework, and getting into a position where they would do what God and the Founding Fathers intended that we should have been doing all the time."

buffalo_girl
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7017

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by buffalo_girl »

Coming back to your main point. We should avoid sticking out too much until everyone its the right time to do so. For now we're invited to stand in holy places. We see in the scriptures that we just prepare, exercise faith, stay in holy places, and be ready. But we won't have to worry about a signal to go. We'll be told if and when we need to do something different. For now we just escalate our faith.
You are right, of course!

It's difficult for those of us who have lived many decades watching the loss of our influence in government - government specifically designed for an educated and vocal People who actively participate in the process at ALL levels. Those of us educated in how these Principles are intended to function - while witnessing the corruption of the system and the indifference of The People - hope & pray for an awakening among the younger that their voices will be employed in making the necessary corrections.

Since education is essential to maintaining Liberty, Spiritual education is absolute bedrock. We are mandated to be the teachers.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/gal/5?lang=eng

verses 12-14 say it all. In verse 13, follow all the scriptural references linked to Liberty. The Book of Mormon illustrates a more physically active defense of Liberty, but we have to remember ALL the People in the Book of Mormon were Covenant People - who should have known better.

We - who know better - are to teach the ignorant and bring them into the Covenant. The 'corrections' must originate from within more individuals committed to God's LAW.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

My understanding of Moroni's words in Ether 8:22-24, which as President Packer reminded us a few years ago, were intended for us in our day, is that we are to "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above [us],which are built up to get power and gain...". In taking President J. Reuben Clark and Dr. W. Cleon Skousen as seriously as I believe they deserve to be taken, I an left wondering how one can oppose the "murderous combinations" without getting out onto Track 1. Or should we just wait until the train on Track 1 derails itself ?

Building Track Two, as i see it, includes making Latter-day Saints aware of their divinely mandated responsibilities to study, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Founders meant it to be understood, and to understand and support the proper role of government according to gospel principles; and also making as many people as possible aware of the conspiracy to overthrow the freedoms of all lands, nations, and countries and establish a single global government.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

Gardener4life:

Am I correct in assuming from your above post on this thread that you are suggesting that we not actively oppose the "secret works of darkness", including the machinations of those who are striving to scrap the US Constitution and further overturn our government in the establishment of a world socialist dictatorship ? By actively opposing, I mean taking actions which will on occasion bring us to the attention of the globalist conspirators. I find that it is impossible to accomplish anything significant without bringing one's activities to the attention of good and bad people. The actions of such organizations as the (now defunct) Freeman Institute, the National Center for Constitutional Studies, the John Birch Society, the Defending Utah organization, the Turning Point USA, and other similar groups fighting treason surely have come to the attention of the globalists.

It seems to me that the LDS Church is now going that route in no longer promoting the principles of the US Constitution or warning against the conspiracy to overthrow our freedoms. The firing of Professor Steven Jones from BYU really brought that home to me.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by lundbaek »

In reading Mosiah 11:20-25 and 12:1-8 and peripheral verses I get the message that delaying or procrastinating obedience to a commandment or direction from a prophet makes it harder to accomplish what should have been accomplished if obedience had occurred to begin with. This reminds me of an October 1944 statement of President J. Reuben Clark : "...we stand in danger of losing our liberties, and once lost, only blood will bring them back; and once lost, we of this Church will, in order to keep the Church going forward, have more sacrifices to make and more persecutions to endure than we have yet known,...". And he made a similar statement twice in November 1952. I have seen that shaping up now for many years. So true it is that disobedience to a prophet does have consequences. 30 Years ago we probably had a fighting chance to reverse our course into tyranny. But I think it is now too late and we wiil have to wait until after the "cleansing of America", when "the remnant" will go to work on Track Two and restore constitutional principles to government.

gardener4life
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1690

Re: Are we losing our freedoms?

Post by gardener4life »

lundbaek wrote: October 19th, 2017, 2:11 pm Gardener4life:

Am I correct in assuming from your above post on this thread that you are suggesting that we not actively oppose the "secret works of darkness", including the machinations of those who are striving to scrap the US Constitution and further overturn our government in the establishment of a world socialist dictatorship ? By actively opposing, I mean taking actions which will on occasion bring us to the attention of the globalist conspirators. I find that it is impossible to accomplish anything significant without bringing one's activities to the attention of good and bad people. The actions of such organizations as the (now defunct) Freeman Institute, the National Center for Constitutional Studies, the John Birch Society, the Defending Utah organization, the Turning Point USA, and other similar groups fighting treason surely have come to the attention of the globalists.

It seems to me that the LDS Church is now going that route in no longer promoting the principles of the US Constitution or warning against the conspiracy to overthrow our freedoms. The firing of Professor Steven Jones from BYU really brought that home to me.
I didn't see this till now. Sorry I didn't get a chance to respond. I think you asked a good question. I will try to help. And I hope for peace with you and that things will be OK with you.

Well I worded part of my answer because of a few reasons...one; what if I said something and someone acted on it and got hurt? Then I would feel pretty bad. But maybe thats wishful thinking anyway its better to have some risk than be a slave. That was part of one facet. But there was more to it then that. For one, people who try to get people to radicalize or oppose the government or do mischief what do they do? They isolate that person. What does Satan do? He isolates those people from good people and puts them in a position where they only hear from bad. They take away self sufficiency to attack freedoms. Look at their methods that's what they are doing now. How will they strip gun rights? By stripping self sufficiency. How will they attack freedoms? By stripping the right to organize and defend oneself (gun rights). It's all coming down to self sufficiency huh...wow. And they take that away through a lot of ways including ...well you get the idea. I could do a separate post on that. (Esau sold his birthright for some porridge...type of thinking.)

So I worded my response to keep on doing good and be around good people. This will help you stay around light and truth. Light and truth = Zion. Why would I frame my answer around that? Because we know Zion will win. It's the only thing that will be a sure win. We don't know if the other methods of opposing evil with other vehicles will win or last but we should try to help anything we can that stands for good. The prophets have told us that Zion will win though...B. Young, J. Smith, W. Woodruff, J. Reuben Clark, D. McKay, Benson, ...the list goes on. Look up conference talks of prophets and apostles that talk about Zion and you will see staying in it is the key to victory. Some of those promises are deep. (But it means more like a type of worthiness and staying Holy more than any particular gathering spot yet.) Some of the wordings of the blessings and promises of Zion are very interesting for this the last dispensation. Of course when you read those promises they have this small print that says 'if you stay in the boat of living right'. (Interesting that Brother Ballard is now talking to people about getting back in the boat, and staying there at just such a time...)

What's the way to win? Stay in Zion. (Read the last paragraph of the Manifesto...Official Declaration #1. What's it say? It says that the Lord and Heavenly Father created Zion to NOT be thwarted.

So I do care that there is secret combinations? Yes, I care. You are right to bring this up. Thank you for doing so. I don't know every means will work to oppose them though. Some of those groups work on money. Some work on a mix of faith and resources. That means they can do some good but they may have some troubles too. We can hope for and do good works with some of them. But I think we can win more and easier by building up Zion first to a point where it can't be stopped first while we help others too.

And ultimately the target of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil (secret combinations' end goal) is to destroy the Saints of God anyway (many scriptures on this). So that means the target end goal of a series of goals of secret combinations will involve persecuting the Saints of God anyway (there are scriptures for this)...so if we build up Zion we are opposing secret combinations. At some point there will be a time when I think Zion will have to separate from the world because of those secret combinations and because of being in a time like the days of Noah before the flood. (Read the text of the hymn 'Ye Elders of Israel' again. Some of the text is quite interesting. But maybe it won't be right away or maybe it will. It will be up to the Lord and the prophet at the time.

I don't think we can avoid opposing evil. You are right about voicing this. We can't ignore it. Part of why our country is in trouble is we 'ignored' evil for 30 years. But some of the opposition means won't be visible on if they are going to work out while we're figuring them out. You can get inspiration on this and a lot of it will come down to praying for the Lord to help you know where you can do some good and some missionary work. Also there's a lot of young men growing up interested in military service. It's hopeful that will do good too. Also a lot of scriptures do say that the wicked will destroy the wicked. So if we ask the Lord more about this, I'm sure it will get taken care of.

And the Constitution absolutely is an inspired document. So is the flag of the United States. During the millenium it will be hung from Ensign Peak above the Salt Lake temple. So yeah we should do some good with the country and oppose evil every chance we get. If you see something that looks right and a way to handle it go for it. But as long as you have money you will always have trouble with secret combinations and evil. And one of the hard parts is you can't tell who to trust. Even some people that go to church have mixed up ideas or are only going because their wife will divorce them if they don't.

So what can you? Do all you can but you can rely on some means of doing good more than others. You can start with those while looking for other opportunities. Use anything you can for exercising faith. I was thinking too that you know...we can do missionary work because its safe mostly in much of the world. We couldn't be safe or have that safety without a good military and a good country. So people doing service to the country are making it safe for missionaries. I think that's beautiful. We can't have religious freedom without people willing to fight for it.

But some methods of service will be longer lasting than others. You can't have missionaries without a defensively strong country that protects religious freedom. But missionaries, Zion, and the gospel will outlast our country too even though we hope our country will continue.

I hope I didn't sound critical of the country in my earlier comments. Just we hope that our efforts can count.

I do feel I should tell you that I felt recently a few months ago that there wasn't a lot of time left. And that it was a good time to galvanize and elevate...whats the word I'm looking for...' to level up' our efforts of doing good. Oh escalate...that was the word I was looking for but it took me a sec for it to stick.

Hope that helps. Thanks for asking me to elaborate on this. I'm grateful I can help. If you confirm this with the spirit things will help.


Post Reply