1st Amendment right to free speech

Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom, Liberty, the US constitution, and the Proper Role of Government.
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freedomforall
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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:30 am

This may be off topic, but I don't think anything would be accomplished by dictating how free speech should be used. My purpose of this thread was to see what people think about their right to speak, and what downfalls there are when exercising that right. I know Jesus spoke out and some people were offended by it.

To whom is God speaking when he says...I will not allow sin in the least degree to enter my kingdom?

What does he mean by those words?

How do those words effect us? Better yet, how should we react to those words?

Is God only kidding?

Can any of us think that God will allow the smallest, near insignificant bad thing (sin) any of us have done and allow that sin into his presence and remain there?

Can we have our own set of rules of conduct and ignore God's rules and assume we will be saved in his kingdom?

Repentance truly means what?

By repenting whose thoughts and emotions are we considering?

Who knows how to be perfect in this life? Site scriptural source, please.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 am

Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 am
FFA, I'm still hoping that you'll seek the answer to why the wicked men wanted to kill Samuel.
How is your question pertinent to any of this?

Unless you are referring to the words of Samuel and how they pierced the souls of the people and stirred them up to anger. Samuel used free speech to warn them of pending destruction and they used free expression in shooting arrows at him, of course missing him at every turn because of the power of God that was in him.

Are you attempting to justify your actions by pretending you're Samuel, in sending out words that could potentially upset people? Is this what you want? If so, you most certainly will not gain followers this way.
Instead of posting info in a preaching manner, why not try asking questions like, what do you think about this, or what is your opinion about that? Then let them think for themselves instead of trying to get them to be hateful toward Trump. Believe that for those having any issues with Trump already know what they're upset about. Why fuel the fire? But for those giving Trump a reasonable amount of space and time to see where his role as POTUS goes, please respect that position. Everyone will see where this presidency will take us soon enough. There are three and a half years to go and lots of things to be accomplished. In six short months Trump has done more good for the country than Obama did in eight years. Let's give credit where credit is due.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Silver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 am

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 am
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 am
FFA, I'm still hoping that you'll seek the answer to why the wicked men wanted to kill Samuel.
How is your question pertinent to any of this?

Unless you are referring to the words of Samuel and how they pierced the souls of the people and stirred them up to anger. Samuel used free speech to warn them of pending destruction and they used free expression in shooting arrows at him, of course missing him at every turn because of the power of God that was in him.

Are you attempting to justify your actions by pretending you're Samuel, in sending out words that could potentially upset people? Is this what you want? If so, you most certainly will not gain followers this way.
Instead of posting info in a preaching manner, why not try asking questions like, what do you think about this, or what is your opinion about that? Then let them think for themselves instead of trying to get them to be hateful toward Trump. Believe that for those having any issues with Trump already know what they're upset about. Why fuel the fire? But for those giving Trump a reasonable amount of space and time to see where his role as POTUS goes, please respect that position. Everyone will see where this presidency will take us soon enough. There are three and a half years to go and lots of things to be accomplished. In six short months Trump has done more good for the country than Obama did in eight years. Let's give credit where credit is due.
You're still doing it: Pretending to be a great proponent of free speech while trying to dictate what or how I write.
As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. (T)he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Ezra Taft Benson

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:24 am

I'd never really considered exactly why the Nephites tried to kill Samuel.
They could have ignored him; just not paid him any attention. They could have simply deported him.

Maybe they were "offended" by his condemnation of their life style and/or behaviour. Maybe they decided he was a public nuisance (Nauvoo Expositor style), or perhaps he was considered fair game because he was a foreigner.

Interesting parallel to our time methinks.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm

Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 am
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 am
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 am
FFA, I'm still hoping that you'll seek the answer to why the wicked men wanted to kill Samuel.
How is your question pertinent to any of this?

Unless you are referring to the words of Samuel and how they pierced the souls of the people and stirred them up to anger. Samuel used free speech to warn them of pending destruction and they used free expression in shooting arrows at him, of course missing him at every turn because of the power of God that was in him.

Are you attempting to justify your actions by pretending you're Samuel, in sending out words that could potentially upset people? Is this what you want? If so, you most certainly will not gain followers this way.
Instead of posting info in a preaching manner, why not try asking questions like, what do you think about this, or what is your opinion about that? Then let them think for themselves instead of trying to get them to be hateful toward Trump. Believe that for those having any issues with Trump already know what they're upset about. Why fuel the fire? But for those giving Trump a reasonable amount of space and time to see where his role as POTUS goes, please respect that position. Everyone will see where this presidency will take us soon enough. There are three and a half years to go and lots of things to be accomplished. In six short months Trump has done more good for the country than Obama did in eight years. Let's give credit where credit is due.
You're still doing it: Pretending to be a great proponent of free speech while trying to dictate what or how I write. Oh, so calling eddie a lapdog, myself Little Lord Fauntleroy, and Trump a murderer...is just fine with you and no one should say anything about it? THINK AGAIN!! Talk about free speech impairments.!
Your comment is BS and you know it. I suggested ways to communicate, I did not dictate as to demand any certain way. I wish you could learn to read posts as they are written, verbatim...and then respond according to what was read and not imagined. Again, you wrest my words to suit yourself and justify it by putting words in my mouth. Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate? Why come back with false statements that do not corroborate the original posting?

Also, I've noticed that there are pages where you will post one after another, sometimes nine deep until, finally, someone may post something. What does this tell you?

Can you prove the word dictate is anywhere to the same meaning as the words "why not" "please" or "suggest?" Go ahead, give it all you got and prove it.
Last edited by freedomforall on Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:14 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:24 am
I'd never really considered exactly why the Nephites tried to kill Samuel.
They could have ignored him; just not paid him any attention. They could have simply deported him.

Maybe they were "offended" by his condemnation of their life style and/or behaviour. Maybe they decided he was a public nuisance (Nauvoo Expositor style), or perhaps he was considered fair game because he was a foreigner.

Interesting parallel to our time methinks.
I know God uses free speech and doesn't care who is offended by it. He believes a certain way and expects us to follow suit to the letter...if we want to become as he is, both mind and body becoming as "one" with him...exalted.

Those of us that want to do things our own way may find ourselves in hell. After all, God knows who are with him in their heart and pretending to be with him in word. No one call fool God.

Mosiah 4:30
30 But this much I can tell you, that if ye do not watch yourselves, and your thoughts, and your words, and your deeds, and observe the commandments of God, and continue in the faith of what ye have heard concerning the coming of our Lord, even unto the end of your lives, ye must perish. And now, O man, remember, and perish not.

Matt. 15:18 (18–20)
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Alma 12:14
14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence.

Let's face it, God doesn't hold back his thoughts.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Silver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 am
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 am
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:12 am
FFA, I'm still hoping that you'll seek the answer to why the wicked men wanted to kill Samuel.
How is your question pertinent to any of this?

Unless you are referring to the words of Samuel and how they pierced the souls of the people and stirred them up to anger. Samuel used free speech to warn them of pending destruction and they used free expression in shooting arrows at him, of course missing him at every turn because of the power of God that was in him.

Are you attempting to justify your actions by pretending you're Samuel, in sending out words that could potentially upset people? Is this what you want? If so, you most certainly will not gain followers this way.
Instead of posting info in a preaching manner, why not try asking questions like, what do you think about this, or what is your opinion about that? Then let them think for themselves instead of trying to get them to be hateful toward Trump. Believe that for those having any issues with Trump already know what they're upset about. Why fuel the fire? But for those giving Trump a reasonable amount of space and time to see where his role as POTUS goes, please respect that position. Everyone will see where this presidency will take us soon enough. There are three and a half years to go and lots of things to be accomplished. In six short months Trump has done more good for the country than Obama did in eight years. Let's give credit where credit is due.
You're still doing it: Pretending to be a great proponent of free speech while trying to dictate what or how I write. Oh, so calling eddie a lapdog, myself Little Lord Fauntleroy, and Trump a murderer...is just fine with you and no one should say anything about it? THINK AGAIN!! Talk about free speech impairments.!
Your comment is BS and you know it. I suggested ways to communicate, I did not dictate as to demand any certain way. I wish you could learn to read posts as they are written, verbatim...and then respond according to what was read and not imagined. Again, you wrest my words to suit yourself and justify it by putting words in my mouth. Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate? Why come back with false statements that do not corroborate the original posting?

Also, I've noticed that there are pages where you will post one after another, sometimes nine deep until, finally, someone may post something. What does this tell you?

Can you prove the word dictate is anywhere to the same meaning as the words "why not" "please" or "suggest?" Go ahead, give it all you got and prove it.
While you continue to get excited about my language, you haven't addressed the fact that Trump is an active murderer. To the casual observer, your attacks on me make you appear to be defending the murderer.
As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. (T)he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Ezra Taft Benson

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:57 pm

Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 am
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:34 am

How is your question pertinent to any of this?

Unless you are referring to the words of Samuel and how they pierced the souls of the people and stirred them up to anger. Samuel used free speech to warn them of pending destruction and they used free expression in shooting arrows at him, of course missing him at every turn because of the power of God that was in him.

Are you attempting to justify your actions by pretending you're Samuel, in sending out words that could potentially upset people? Is this what you want? If so, you most certainly will not gain followers this way.
Instead of posting info in a preaching manner, why not try asking questions like, what do you think about this, or what is your opinion about that? Then let them think for themselves instead of trying to get them to be hateful toward Trump. Believe that for those having any issues with Trump already know what they're upset about. Why fuel the fire? But for those giving Trump a reasonable amount of space and time to see where his role as POTUS goes, please respect that position. Everyone will see where this presidency will take us soon enough. There are three and a half years to go and lots of things to be accomplished. In six short months Trump has done more good for the country than Obama did in eight years. Let's give credit where credit is due.
You're still doing it: Pretending to be a great proponent of free speech while trying to dictate what or how I write. Oh, so calling eddie a lapdog, myself Little Lord Fauntleroy, and Trump a murderer...is just fine with you and no one should say anything about it? THINK AGAIN!! Talk about free speech impairments.!
Your comment is BS and you know it. I suggested ways to communicate, I did not dictate as to demand any certain way. I wish you could learn to read posts as they are written, verbatim...and then respond according to what was read and not imagined. Again, you wrest my words to suit yourself and justify it by putting words in my mouth. Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate? Why come back with false statements that do not corroborate the original posting?

Also, I've noticed that there are pages where you will post one after another, sometimes nine deep until, finally, someone may post something. What does this tell you?

Can you prove the word dictate is anywhere to the same meaning as the words "why not" "please" or "suggest?" Go ahead, give it all you got and prove it.
While you continue to get excited about my language, you haven't addressed the fact that Trump is an active murderer. To the casual observer, your attacks on me make you appear to be defending the murderer.
You'll stoop to saying anything and feeling justified in the process, right? You're real funny.

Like I said, you can dish it out at will...but you can't take it, proven by the out of control responses you make up.

Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate?

Did you take English in school? Did you ever learn to take responsibility for your own errors? Or is this way too much to handle?
Last edited by freedomforall on Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Silver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:57 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 am


You're still doing it: Pretending to be a great proponent of free speech while trying to dictate what or how I write. Oh, so calling eddie a lapdog, myself Little Lord Fauntleroy, and Trump a murderer...is just fine with you and no one should say anything about it? THINK AGAIN!! Talk about free speech impairments.!
Your comment is BS and you know it. I suggested ways to communicate, I did not dictate as to demand any certain way. I wish you could learn to read posts as they are written, verbatim...and then respond according to what was read and not imagined. Again, you wrest my words to suit yourself and justify it by putting words in my mouth. Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate? Why come back with false statements that do not corroborate the original posting?

Also, I've noticed that there are pages where you will post one after another, sometimes nine deep until, finally, someone may post something. What does this tell you?

Can you prove the word dictate is anywhere to the same meaning as the words "why not" "please" or "suggest?" Go ahead, give it all you got and prove it.
While you continue to get excited about my language, you haven't addressed the fact that Trump is an active murderer. To the casual observer, your attacks on me make you appear to be defending the murderer.
You'll stoop to saying anything and feeling justified in the process, right? You're real funny.
Are you denying that Trump is murdering innocent people?
As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. (T)he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Ezra Taft Benson

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:05 pm

Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:57 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:04 pm

Your comment is BS and you know it. I suggested ways to communicate, I did not dictate as to demand any certain way. I wish you could learn to read posts as they are written, verbatim...and then respond according to what was read and not imagined. Again, you wrest my words to suit yourself and justify it by putting words in my mouth. Are you unable to be accountable for your own deeds, thoughts or actions? Why do you have to shift the blame to your hearers that have any problem with how or what you articulate? Why come back with false statements that do not corroborate the original posting?

Also, I've noticed that there are pages where you will post one after another, sometimes nine deep until, finally, someone may post something. What does this tell you?

Can you prove the word dictate is anywhere to the same meaning as the words "why not" "please" or "suggest?" Go ahead, give it all you got and prove it.
While you continue to get excited about my language, you haven't addressed the fact that Trump is an active murderer. To the casual observer, your attacks on me make you appear to be defending the murderer.
You'll stoop to saying anything and feeling justified in the process, right? You're real funny.
Are you denying that Trump is murdering innocent people?
I can't exclaim that Trump has murdered anyone. You're telling the story. I do think, however, you need to learn the difference between murdering and killing. In any type of conflict involving weapons of destruction, there is always someone getting killed, but to call it murder, I truly don't think so.

Were 50,000 +/- troops murdered in Vietnam?
Were thousands of Japanese murdered upon A-bombs blowing up over Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Were thousands of our troops murdered in WWII?
How about every other war or conflict since Adam?

I'll tell you who got murdered. All the Jews that were slaughtered by Hitler in Nazi concentration camps during the Holocaust. Now that was premeditated murder.

You know what? We've been over this ground already, yet you still ask the same questions over and over as if we'd never heard them before. Sad.

Just what does it take to get through to you?

I'm sure glad that many of us do not speak evil of Trump as you do. Your dislike for him is so intense that we can feel it through the air like we would thick fog.

Truth be known this thread is not about trump, but it has turned into a thread about you, once again. You can't leave Trump alone and will hijack any thread to demean him and make it about you.

Maybe I should start a thread about rabbits. Would you hijack that one as well.

To a casual observer, they might think that you are trolling.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Silver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:31 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:05 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:57 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm


While you continue to get excited about my language, you haven't addressed the fact that Trump is an active murderer. To the casual observer, your attacks on me make you appear to be defending the murderer.
You'll stoop to saying anything and feeling justified in the process, right? You're real funny.
Are you denying that Trump is murdering innocent people?
Truth be known this thread is not about trump, but it has turned into a thread about you, once again. You can't leave Trump alone and will hijack any thread to demean him and make it about you.

Maybe I should start a thread about rabbits. Would you hijack that one as well.

To a casual observer, they might think that you are trolling.
You made this thread about me. Have you already forgotten what you wrote in the original post?

To knowingly send troops to Syria, etc. where they will kill innocent people in wars of aggression is close enough to murder that it is called a war crime. The Book of Mormon teaches against it. I am the one who is surprised that you still don't get it.
As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. (T)he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Ezra Taft Benson

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:31 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:05 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:57 pm

You'll stoop to saying anything and feeling justified in the process, right? You're real funny.
Are you denying that Trump is murdering innocent people?
Truth be known this thread is not about trump, but it has turned into a thread about you, once again. You can't leave Trump alone and will hijack any thread to demean him and make it about you.

Maybe I should start a thread about rabbits. Would you hijack that one as well.

To a casual observer, they might think that you are trolling.
You made this thread about me. Have you already forgotten what you wrote in the original post?

To knowingly send troops to Syria, etc. where they will kill innocent people in wars of aggression is close enough to murder that it is called a war crime. The Book of Mormon teaches against it. I am the one who is surprised that you still don't get it.
There again your reading skills seem lacking. Where in my OP did I say Silver just once? You having a guilt complex is not my fault. I said nothing about you. I asked a question to the effect of are we able to tell someone to shut up as part of our freedom of speech. You happen to take it as an attack directed at you. Sorry, but again your argument holds no water.

Can't you do any better than this same tactic over and over? Putting words in my mouth will get you no where.

What else are you going to pull out of thin air to twist and distort and take personally. Please go back to your threads and do what you do best among all your friends, and I'll handle this one. This thread is not about Trump. And it certainly isn't about you until you chimed in and made it so...and have almost proven my case in the process.
Last edited by freedomforall on Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Silver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:09 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:59 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:31 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:05 pm
Silver wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm


Are you denying that Trump is murdering innocent people?
Truth be known this thread is not about trump, but it has turned into a thread about you, once again. You can't leave Trump alone and will hijack any thread to demean him and make it about you.

Maybe I should start a thread about rabbits. Would you hijack that one as well.

To a casual observer, they might think that you are trolling.
You made this thread about me. Have you already forgotten what you wrote in the original post?

To knowingly send troops to Syria, etc. where they will kill innocent people in wars of aggression is close enough to murder that it is called a war crime. The Book of Mormon teaches against it. I am the one who is surprised that you still don't get it.
There again your reading skills are lacking. Where in my OP did I say Silver just once? You having a guilty complex is not my fault. I said nothing about you. I asked a question to the effect of are we able to tell someone to shut up as part of our freedom of speech. You happen to take it as an attack directed at you. Sorry, but again your argument holds no water.

Can't you do any better than this same tactic over and over? Putting words in my mouth will get you no where.

What else are you going to pull out of thin air to twist and distort and take personally. Please go back to your threads and do what you do best among all your friends, and I'll handle this one. This thread is not about Trump. And it certainly isn't about you until you chimed in and made it so...and have almost proven my case in the process.
Right. That's what you meant.
As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. (T)he worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn’t exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Ezra Taft Benson

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:58 am

You have No FREE Speech!


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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby freedomforall » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:26 am

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is there a difference of having free speech and having freedom of speech? If so, what is it?

From: It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely.
It guarantees freedom of expression by prohibiting Congress from restricting the press or the rights of individuals to speak freely.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Thinker » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:03 am

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:34 pm
As so many people exclaim as they swear, blaspheme, rant about whatever they want and wherever they want, sometimes incessantly, even here on the forum...don't we, those who don't care to listen to it and would like to see some impeding done, also have a right to tell them to SHUT UP? Or is free speech only granted to loud mouths? I would think it is a TWO-WAY street.
To top that off, what about those that appear to have narcissistic tendencies? They can be asked to not talk a certain way, and they totally ignore the request and even come on stronger with their ranting to show everyone just how conceited and disrespectful they can be. Is this practice under free speech or just plain arrogance and being obstinate?
Where does free speech end and annoyance begin?
Good questions, but I still defend freedom of speech, even when annoying.
The exception is when people use noise makers or yell any time a speaker tries to speak.
As you suggested - it's not just one person's right to speak, but all.
And now, it's not just the charismatic or narcissistic people who can have their words heard - but even shy, quiet introverts can express their ideas through writing online etc.

And I agree that although we have freedom of speech, there is no speech that is 100% free in the sense that all speech has some cost or consequence. So ideally, we choose the words we use wisely.

Still, truth is in perspective and the more perspectives the more truthful. If I want to thoroughly understand a problem & in order to solve it in the best way, I need to consider all influential factors, which often others' sharing their perspectives helps with. As JS taught, the truth will stand against anything & if it's not true, it shouldn't stand.

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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby Thinker » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:52 pm

Irrelevant wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:40 am
Freedom of speech inevitably includes freedom to say undesirable things. If we wish to enjoy freedom to say what we like we must allow the same, even though it means we may hear things that offend us.

We have the right to tell someone to shut up but not the right to shut them up. If we don't care to listen we have the right not to do so.
Well put.

gardener4life
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Re: 1st Amendment right to free speech

Postby gardener4life » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:03 pm

Perhaps I can offer a few thoughts for you.

Free Speech and why they tried to kill Samuel are two completely different things. But Satan tries to mess with people and mix up ideas and cloud people's judgment. If we want to understand the scriptures we need the Lord's help and the Spirit.

What happens when you have a family like Nephi, Sam, Laman, and Lemuel? The wicked hate the righteous. They would have hated Nephi no matter what he would have done, and no matter how he would have said it. Even if he's given them gold or a free life or given them free rent they still would have hated him. The wicked when standing next to good people get uncomfortable really fast. When you put a lot of light in a room and put a dirty person next to a really clean person it shows really fast how dirty the dirty person is. If you had two dirty people next to each other they wouldn't show so much. Also if you dim the light in the room then the dirty person doesn't feel as uncomfortable.

In Nephi's case you had both. He was lifting a brighter glowing light in the room plus he was clean spiritually. The parents could see the difference. Even if they hadn't been members they would have felt some differences but probably not as much. I've seen this with real people, even people that don't go to church. I think many of you have to. Now I wish to come back to the point that we want to adapt this to spiritual meaning.

Nephi's brothers hated that they lost trust with their father. They hated that it showed more that they were untrustworthy with a bright glowy Nephi next to him. (By the way this was partly why Nephi saw how good Zoram was and decided he should go with them. You recall there's a reference that while going with him to get the plates, Zoram was excitedly talking about the elders of the Jews and the things of God. Nephi saw he was clean too.) When talking about scriptures and things of God, it's like we're turning up the light in the room.

That's why people get offended about scriptures. With more light and knowledge they can't hide their problems as well. They resent those are good because they don't want their sins to be uncovered. This is also why the Isaiah scriptures about their misdeeds and wickedness revealed on the housetops is a big deal. Well...that and Weinstein and others...) With more attention on their wickedness people are afraid of being punished and retribution from their victims. They don't want their victims to identify them. This isn't just about the Hollywood scandals but about not wanting to miss out on blessings. Esau hated Jacob for getting the birthright blessing until he was calmed down. Nephi's brothers hated him for inheriting the blessings they could have had for themselves if they'd tried to repent. Samuel was hated by those he preached to because they saw they would lose if he convinced the people of the truth. They feared losing their positions, wealth, and status. King Noah was afraid of the same when he was almost convinced by Abinadi.

So this is a bit separate from free speech. But free speech is important. It's wonderful that we have free speech, freedom of religion, rights to property, and worship. But those freedoms are under attack right now. In the days of the Nephites it was under threat of invasion. But in our day its under threat by many sources, particularly taking away people's self sufficiency to get them to 'sell' their freedoms for 'welfare'. This group of people is getting so big that any kind of correction to it would be difficult now that you already have a welfare system in blue states like NY and California.

And a challenge is people against welfare systems and pro freedom will have no plan for people with disabilities. They will raise the bar so high that people can't prove if they are disabled or need help. And so there are people who will join the welfare-ites in their fight because of holes like this because of people in their family with disabilities, etc. So that's why McCain and the other grasshats that betrayed us in the fight to reform healthcare really did way more damage than they can comprehend.

I hope my comments helped. Both comments about free speech and Samuel are interesting. I hope more people talk about this kind of stuff.

I would also add that yes we should have free speech but there are limits to what we want to go with. For example see D&C46:5-7. You should have free speech but in your meetings you shouldn't allow evil in, nor doctrine of devils or evil, nor corruption, nor to be seduced by evil spirits, or incorrect ideas of men.

So basically...I could say free speech shouldn't let us suicide our youth by allowing them to hear anything goes. We should be able to say we don't want certain things around and not have it be accused of bullying anyone or be vilified.


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