Poll: Korean War, Part 2
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Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Do you have an opinion? Would you like to weigh in?
Last edited by Silver on July 7th, 2017, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- iWriteStuff
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
I'm against intervention. I say give it some time and watch what happens.
Has anyone here ever read how Mao acquired nuclear weapons in China? He paid Russia with the food that was supposed to go to the peasants. In exchange, Russia sent him technology and scientists. He got his nuclear power, but as a consequence of this strategy between 18 and 55 million Chinese peasants starved to death. Kim Jong Un is doing the same thing in order to develop nukes and ICBMs. Each missile that splashes down in the Sea of Japan represents thousands more peasants that will not survive the current sanctions and starvation.
He will either run out of peasants or he will run out of political capital long before this ever turns into a "defensive" war for us. Let it take its course but pray for peace and charity to prevail.
Has anyone here ever read how Mao acquired nuclear weapons in China? He paid Russia with the food that was supposed to go to the peasants. In exchange, Russia sent him technology and scientists. He got his nuclear power, but as a consequence of this strategy between 18 and 55 million Chinese peasants starved to death. Kim Jong Un is doing the same thing in order to develop nukes and ICBMs. Each missile that splashes down in the Sea of Japan represents thousands more peasants that will not survive the current sanctions and starvation.
He will either run out of peasants or he will run out of political capital long before this ever turns into a "defensive" war for us. Let it take its course but pray for peace and charity to prevail.
- Arenera
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Wait for the first, second offense? Should we have waited instead of starting the Middle East war, that hasn't helped anything.iWriteStuff wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 12:18 pm I'm against intervention. I say give it some time and watch what happens.
Has anyone here ever read how Mao acquired nuclear weapons in China? He paid Russia with the food that was supposed to go to the peasants. In exchange, Russia sent him technology and scientists. He got his nuclear power, but as a consequence of this strategy between 18 and 55 million Chinese peasants starved to death. Kim Jong Un is doing the same thing in order to develop nukes and ICBMs. Each missile that splashes down in the Sea of Japan represents thousands more peasants that will not survive the current sanctions and starvation.
He will either run out of peasants or he will run out of political capital long before this ever turns into a "defensive" war for us. Let it take its course but pray for peace and charity to prevail.
- Durzan
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
I say we do what Alma did with the Zoramites... IE diffuse the situation by preaching the gospel.
- gclayjr
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Durzan,
Are you kidding? Do you know that such preaching is forbidden in North Korea (and wasn't by the Zoramites... who were actually part of the Nephite nation).
This may be one of the classic cases where going to some knee-jerk radical philosophical response is not only stupid but dangerous; whether it be radical libertarianism, detailed intervention, or just run in and preach of Christ.
First, we need to see how this plays out. We do need to defend against real threats. Iraq demonstrated that maybe not every perceived threat is the threat we believe it to be. Syria has proven that the opposition to bad guys are not necessarily good guys.
So I'm afraid that the right thing at this time is to not take anything off the table, and hope that Trump, and his counselors are more clear in their thinking than too many of us believe him to be.
Regards,
George Clay
I say we do what Alma did with the Zoramites... IE diffuse the situation by preaching the gospel
Are you kidding? Do you know that such preaching is forbidden in North Korea (and wasn't by the Zoramites... who were actually part of the Nephite nation).
This may be one of the classic cases where going to some knee-jerk radical philosophical response is not only stupid but dangerous; whether it be radical libertarianism, detailed intervention, or just run in and preach of Christ.
First, we need to see how this plays out. We do need to defend against real threats. Iraq demonstrated that maybe not every perceived threat is the threat we believe it to be. Syria has proven that the opposition to bad guys are not necessarily good guys.
So I'm afraid that the right thing at this time is to not take anything off the table, and hope that Trump, and his counselors are more clear in their thinking than too many of us believe him to be.
Regards,
George Clay
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
George,gclayjr wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 2:53 pm Durzan,
I say we do what Alma did with the Zoramites... IE diffuse the situation by preaching the gospel
Are you kidding? Do you know that such preaching is forbidden in North Korea (and wasn't by the Zoramites... who were actually part of the Nephite nation).
This may be one of the classic cases where going to some knee-jerk radical philosophical response is not only stupid but dangerous; whether it be radical libertarianism, detailed intervention, or just run in and preach of Christ.
First, we need to see how this plays out. We do need to defend against real threats. Iraq demonstrated that maybe not every perceived threat is the threat we believe it to be. Syria has proven that the opposition to bad guys are not necessarily good guys.
So I'm afraid that the right thing at this time is to not take anything off the table, and hope that Trump, and his counselors are more clear in their thinking than too many of us believe him to be.
Regards,
George Clay
I would say Alma's preaching was tolerated, but only until he started pulling away converts from their Rameumpton. Things went downhill fast after that. And don't forget they stomped Korihor to death after he went there to right the wrongs his horrible lies had caused.
- gclayjr
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Silver,
and other than the souls they saved before they were rejected, who also left, not much was solved by preaching, eventually it needed the sword.
Regards,
George Clay
That was when they left, not when they went.I would say Alma's preaching was tolerated, but only until he started pulling away converts from their Rameumpton. Things went downhill fast after that. And don't forget they stomped Korihor to death after he went there to right the wrongs his horrible lies had caused.
and other than the souls they saved before they were rejected, who also left, not much was solved by preaching, eventually it needed the sword.
Regards,
George Clay
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
If he is starving his citizens to death to get the money to buy more weapons or threatening Japan or South Korea with his dumb missile launchings, someone needs to go in there now and remove him from power! The sooner the better, I think, before he has a chance to kill more of his people than he already has, along with other innocent people living nearby.
If you knew a neighbor's child was on a playground playing with a loaded gun, and you were the adult closest to him, would you take the gun away now or spend the next half hour debating over who to call or what to do about it?
If you knew a neighbor's child was on a playground playing with a loaded gun, and you were the adult closest to him, would you take the gun away now or spend the next half hour debating over who to call or what to do about it?
- Durzan
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Behold, the time is coming quickly when God shall work a great miracle upon the Hermit Nation. Her leader and her people shall hear the gospel, and shall be over-swept by a change so profound that you will scarcely be able to recognize her once it is completed; and when this change comes to pass, it will seem as though North Korea will have gone from poor to prosperous overnight. And it shall come to pass that in that day, shall the North and South become reunited, and their people shall become one people, united by a bond stronger than what holds us together. This I testify in the name of God Almighty, even Jesus Christ. Amen.
...I can feel it in my bones that the words written above are true. The time of when the Hermit Nation shall receive the Gospel is near at hand.
The key lies in the fact that back in March, President Trump offered to meet with Kim Jong Un... and a North Korean representative responded somewhat favorably, saying that North Korea would meet with him "under the right conditions." The opportunity is there, right now. Its a slim opening, but an opening none the less. With enough faith and a little pressure, we can push that opening a little wider.
I can't see how this would play out, but I KNOW there is a reason why I keep thinking about North Korea. If you read my thread on how I drew comparison between King Lamoni and Kim Jong Un, then you know why I say this. I say this because the Spirit has born witness to me that Kim Jong Un CAN repent! As crazy as this sounds, I really believe that something will happen if I make even just one small jesture towards the goal of opening the Hermit Kingdom up to the gospel! I really think that this could work, and it might be the only way to diffuse tensions and end a second Korean War before it starts.
Were the four sons of Mosiah deemed crazy to go into the lands of the Lamanites? You bet they were! Did King Mosiah forbid them from going? At first he did, but they pleaded with him day and night. And God bore witness that the desires of their hearts were pure and in the right place, and as a result He promised the King that He would protect them. How many of us have that kind of faith? Are we willing to do as Ammon and his brothers did? Behold, I for one, am willing to do as they did. I will put my trust in the Lord.
Where is the faith that our allowed our ancestors to cross the plains? Where is the faith that called down so many miracles? Should we not have the same faith that Ammon and his brethren had? Should we not have the faith to take courage and action, and believe in the miracles and power of our Father in Heaven? Are we not children of our God? For too long, we members of the LDS church have grown complacent in our homes. News flash, WE ARE IN THE LATTER DAYS, AND THE WORLD IS GETTING WORSE WITH EACH PASSING DAY. Let us not stand around idly by anymore, when our fellow brethren call out for the light; let us build our faith and spread the Gospel with fire and determination.
Let us pray as a group that the Gospel shall be spread into North Korea, and that the best and brightest of our souls be sent there without fear of man!
...I can feel it in my bones that the words written above are true. The time of when the Hermit Nation shall receive the Gospel is near at hand.
The key lies in the fact that back in March, President Trump offered to meet with Kim Jong Un... and a North Korean representative responded somewhat favorably, saying that North Korea would meet with him "under the right conditions." The opportunity is there, right now. Its a slim opening, but an opening none the less. With enough faith and a little pressure, we can push that opening a little wider.
I can't see how this would play out, but I KNOW there is a reason why I keep thinking about North Korea. If you read my thread on how I drew comparison between King Lamoni and Kim Jong Un, then you know why I say this. I say this because the Spirit has born witness to me that Kim Jong Un CAN repent! As crazy as this sounds, I really believe that something will happen if I make even just one small jesture towards the goal of opening the Hermit Kingdom up to the gospel! I really think that this could work, and it might be the only way to diffuse tensions and end a second Korean War before it starts.
Were the four sons of Mosiah deemed crazy to go into the lands of the Lamanites? You bet they were! Did King Mosiah forbid them from going? At first he did, but they pleaded with him day and night. And God bore witness that the desires of their hearts were pure and in the right place, and as a result He promised the King that He would protect them. How many of us have that kind of faith? Are we willing to do as Ammon and his brothers did? Behold, I for one, am willing to do as they did. I will put my trust in the Lord.
Where is the faith that our allowed our ancestors to cross the plains? Where is the faith that called down so many miracles? Should we not have the same faith that Ammon and his brethren had? Should we not have the faith to take courage and action, and believe in the miracles and power of our Father in Heaven? Are we not children of our God? For too long, we members of the LDS church have grown complacent in our homes. News flash, WE ARE IN THE LATTER DAYS, AND THE WORLD IS GETTING WORSE WITH EACH PASSING DAY. Let us not stand around idly by anymore, when our fellow brethren call out for the light; let us build our faith and spread the Gospel with fire and determination.
Let us pray as a group that the Gospel shall be spread into North Korea, and that the best and brightest of our souls be sent there without fear of man!
- gclayjr
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Durzan,
Go ahead and pack your bags for North Korea and walk your talk. I will pay for your passport pictures, if you show me your ticket to North Korea.
There are so many here that talk so big and walk so little!
Regards,
George Clay
Will you walk your talk?Were the four sons of Mosiah deemed crazy to go into the lands of the Lamanites? You bet they were! Did King Mosiah forbid them from going? At first he did, but they pleaded with him day and night
Go ahead and pack your bags for North Korea and walk your talk. I will pay for your passport pictures, if you show me your ticket to North Korea.
There are so many here that talk so big and walk so little!
Regards,
George Clay
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Why do you think Kim's closest neighbor, China, doesn't do that?Matchmaker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 4:19 pm If he is starving his citizens to death to get the money to buy more weapons or threatening Japan or South Korea with his dumb missile launchings, someone needs to go in there now and remove him from power! The sooner the better, I think, before he has a chance to kill more of his people than he already has, along with other innocent people living nearby.
If you knew a neighbor's child was on a playground playing with a loaded gun, and you were the adult closest to him, would you take the gun away now or spend the next half hour debating over who to call or what to do about it?
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
I don't know, but I bet you do? Give me the skinny please.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 8:44 pmWhy do you think Kim's closest neighbor, China, doesn't do that?Matchmaker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 4:19 pm If he is starving his citizens to death to get the money to buy more weapons or threatening Japan or South Korea with his dumb missile launchings, someone needs to go in there now and remove him from power! The sooner the better, I think, before he has a chance to kill more of his people than he already has, along with other innocent people living nearby.
If you knew a neighbor's child was on a playground playing with a loaded gun, and you were the adult closest to him, would you take the gun away now or spend the next half hour debating over who to call or what to do about it?
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Because North Korea is useful to China. Ready for the next questions? Why does the United States government pay huge interest payments to the Chinese on one hand and then accuse them of being in direct conflict with our precious national security interests on the other hand? Can you smell the rotten eggs even if you haven't quite located them yet? And then, to revisit the 1st Korean War of over 60 years ago, why couldn't NATO, which had defeated both Japan and Germany (and, OK, the pasta-loving Italians) just a few years earlier, beat a puny little, economically stunted, sorry-excuse-for-a-country like North Korea?Matchmaker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 8:52 pmI don't know, but I bet you do? Give me the skinny please.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 8:44 pmWhy do you think Kim's closest neighbor, China, doesn't do that?Matchmaker wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 4:19 pm If he is starving his citizens to death to get the money to buy more weapons or threatening Japan or South Korea with his dumb missile launchings, someone needs to go in there now and remove him from power! The sooner the better, I think, before he has a chance to kill more of his people than he already has, along with other innocent people living nearby.
If you knew a neighbor's child was on a playground playing with a loaded gun, and you were the adult closest to him, would you take the gun away now or spend the next half hour debating over who to call or what to do about it?
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
You know for a church that tries to get its children to "Follow the Prophet," the adults are kinda lax about doing just that. The example has already been set as to how we should treat the North Koreans:
Church Aid to North Korea
“We were asked by the First Presidency to assess the current situation in order to determine the nature of further assistance in the northern provinces of [North Korea], where food is in short supply, rationing has been instituted, and there is a potential for famine,” said Elder David E. Sorensen of the Seventy. Elder Sorensen was accompanied on a recent tour of North Korea by Elder Rex D. Pinegar of the Seventy.
From 1995 to the present, the Church has contributed humanitarian aid to the needy people of North Korea through the Red Cross and other agencies. This aid has included 2,600 tons of flour, powdered milk, cooking oil, blankets, and first-aid supplies.
“The country has been mobilized to combat the food shortages, with military personnel, office workers, schoolchildren, and the general populace assisting the farmers in planting needed crops,” Elder Sorensen said. He also noted that Brent Chugg of Latter-day Saint Charities presented and helped plant 500 apple trees donated by the Church. Technical assistance to assess and prevent further soil erosion was provided by Church representative Garry Flake.
“It appeared to us during our tour that relief agencies were distributing aid in an efficient, satisfactory manner,” Elder Sorensen said. “These humanitarian efforts will bless the lives of those suffering in North Korea.”
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/10/news ... h?lang=eng
Church Aid to North Korea
“We were asked by the First Presidency to assess the current situation in order to determine the nature of further assistance in the northern provinces of [North Korea], where food is in short supply, rationing has been instituted, and there is a potential for famine,” said Elder David E. Sorensen of the Seventy. Elder Sorensen was accompanied on a recent tour of North Korea by Elder Rex D. Pinegar of the Seventy.
From 1995 to the present, the Church has contributed humanitarian aid to the needy people of North Korea through the Red Cross and other agencies. This aid has included 2,600 tons of flour, powdered milk, cooking oil, blankets, and first-aid supplies.
“The country has been mobilized to combat the food shortages, with military personnel, office workers, schoolchildren, and the general populace assisting the farmers in planting needed crops,” Elder Sorensen said. He also noted that Brent Chugg of Latter-day Saint Charities presented and helped plant 500 apple trees donated by the Church. Technical assistance to assess and prevent further soil erosion was provided by Church representative Garry Flake.
“It appeared to us during our tour that relief agencies were distributing aid in an efficient, satisfactory manner,” Elder Sorensen said. “These humanitarian efforts will bless the lives of those suffering in North Korea.”
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/10/news ... h?lang=eng
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
The only thing worse that a war with NK is a NK with long range nuclear weapons that they'll use to blackmail its neighbors and the world. Better to stop them now then try to after.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Have you entered your preference in the poll above?I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:51 pm The only thing worse that a war with NK is a NK with long range nuclear weapons that they'll use to blackmail its neighbors and the world. Better to stop them now then try to after.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
The sword of which you speak was only used in defense, George. That is the grand message of the warfare found in the Book of Mormon. Never take a sword in hand, except in defense. The only exception being when it was necessary to cleanse the inner vessel first. Captain Moroni made sure that he eliminated the corruption at home so he would have the strength he needed to fight against any combination of Zoramites or Amalekites or Lamanites who were attacking the Nephites.gclayjr wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 3:38 pm Silver,
That was when they left, not when they went.I would say Alma's preaching was tolerated, but only until he started pulling away converts from their Rameumpton. Things went downhill fast after that. And don't forget they stomped Korihor to death after he went there to right the wrongs his horrible lies had caused.
and other than the souls they saved before they were rejected, who also left, not much was solved by preaching, eventually it needed the sword.
Regards,
George Clay
The message of the Book of Mormon must be applied in this case as well. We have no reason to attack North Korea. It's shameful that we as a people allow the constant empire-building by the warmongers to continue.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
No, because the poll options are ridiculous.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:52 pmHave you entered your preference in the poll above?I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:51 pm The only thing worse that a war with NK is a NK with long range nuclear weapons that they'll use to blackmail its neighbors and the world. Better to stop them now then try to after.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
But your initial post shows you clearly fall into the warmonger category. I thought you would have proudly clicked on that choice.I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 10:07 pmNo, because the poll options are ridiculous.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:52 pmHave you entered your preference in the poll above?I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:51 pm The only thing worse that a war with NK is a NK with long range nuclear weapons that they'll use to blackmail its neighbors and the world. Better to stop them now then try to after.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Maybe some of you kiddos have forgotten the motto of warmongers. I've pasted that horrible sentiment below as a reminder. Of course, these days, warmongers, both elected and appointed, being graduates of institutions of higher learning and having years of training from their Luciferian masters, couch their bloodthirsty ambitions in much more politically correct terms such as "America's national security interests" to justify killing brown people.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
You don't have to be a warmonger to see a clear and present danger and the strategic importance of halting its advance.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 10:13 pmBut your initial post shows you clearly fall into the warmonger category. I thought you would have proudly clicked on that choice.I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 10:07 pmNo, because the poll options are ridiculous.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:52 pmHave you entered your preference in the poll above?I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 9:51 pm The only thing worse that a war with NK is a NK with long range nuclear weapons that they'll use to blackmail its neighbors and the world. Better to stop them now then try to after.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
Oh, but you do if you want to be the aggressor in the war. Advance? That's so laughable. For 60 years we've been waiting for the North Koreans to bust out of their national boundaries. Please, friend, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. I bet the GDP of Texas is greater than North Korea's. They are no threat to anyone but themselves. In which case, it would be better to kill them with kindness instead of using military might. Unless, of course, you're a warmonger.I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 11:53 pmYou don't have to be a warmonger to see a clear and present danger and the strategic importance of halting its advance.Silver wrote: ↑July 5th, 2017, 10:13 pmBut your initial post shows you clearly fall into the warmonger category. I thought you would have proudly clicked on that choice.
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
What's laughable is you actually think GDP is an important factor in this issue. And busting out of their national boundaries isn't necessary if they possess ICBMs. What would you suggest we do? The status quo for decades is they make a threat and the world gives them economic aid and agricultural aid in return for a temporary halting of their activities. Their population still suffers. They're the most sanctioned country in the world and that's done nothing.
So, Mr. "kill them with kindness", money and food hasn't worked, sanctions haven't worked. What would you do if you were the President? Would you let them continue to develop nuclear missiles that could reach us because YOU believe they aren't a threat?
So, Mr. "kill them with kindness", money and food hasn't worked, sanctions haven't worked. What would you do if you were the President? Would you let them continue to develop nuclear missiles that could reach us because YOU believe they aren't a threat?
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Re: Poll: Korean War, Part 2
I've already told you what I would do but you are past feeling. Here it is again:I'LLMAKEYAFAMOUS wrote: ↑July 6th, 2017, 3:32 am What's laughable is you actually think GDP is an important factor in this issue. And busting out of their national boundaries isn't necessary if they possess ICBMs. What would you suggest we do? The status quo for decades is they make a threat and the world gives them economic aid and agricultural aid in return for a temporary halting of their activities. Their population still suffers. They're the most sanctioned country in the world and that's done nothing.
So, Mr. "kill them with kindness", money and food hasn't worked, sanctions haven't worked. What would you do if you were the President? Would you let them continue to develop nuclear missiles that could reach us because YOU believe they aren't a threat?
Follow the prophet.
Feed the people.
Pray for them that would despitefully use you.
Accept President Kimball's counsel.
"We are a warlike people, easily distracted from our assignment of preparing for the coming of the Lord. When enemies rise up, we commit vast resources to the fabrication of gods of stone and steel—ships, planes, missiles, fortifications—and depend on them for protection and deliverance. When threatened, we become antienemy instead of pro-kingdom of God; we train a man in the art of war and call him a patriot, thus, in the manner of Satan’s counterfeit of true patriotism, perverting the Savior’s teaching:
“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:44–45.)
We forget that if we are righteous the Lord will either not suffer our enemies to come upon us—and this is the special promise to the inhabitants of the land of the Americas (see 2 Ne. 1:7)—or he will fight our battles for us (Ex. 14:14; D&C 98:37, to name only two references of many)."