Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Discussion of principles relating to God's Law, Agency, Freedom, Liberty, the US constitution, and the Proper Role of Government.
eddie
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby eddie » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:05 pm

MEN RAISED UP


The success of the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War came about through men who were raised up by God for this special purpose. You must read the Declaration of Independence to feel its inspiration. You merely need to study history to recognize that a group of fledgling colonies defeating the world’s most powerful nation stemmed from a force greater than man. Where else in the world do we find a group of men together in one place at one time who possessed greater capacity and wisdom than the founding fathers—Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and others? But it was not to their own abilities that they gave the credit. They acknowledged Almighty God and were certain of the impossibility of their success without his help. Benjamin Franklin made an appeal for daily prayers in the Constitutional Convention. In that appeal he said, “If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? I believe without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the building of Babel.” (Mark E. Petersen, The Great Prologue, Deseret Book Co., 1975, p. 88.)

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Spaced_Out
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Spaced_Out » Mon May 01, 2017 12:08 am

lundbaek wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:09 pm
I do not hesitate to say, however, that Mormons generally have failed America. They/We are the only people on this planet who have been told by the Lord that He established the Constitution of the United States. And He told us how: that He established it by the hands of wise men whom He raised up unto that very purpose. (D&C 101: 80) He even told them that it was to be maintained for the rights and protection of all people (D&C 98: 5 and D&C 101: 77), and that its principles were to be established forever. (D&C 109: 54)
The constitution is a a righteous standard to live by. You constitutionalists are worse than conspiracy theorists - just a one tracked mined and ignore the bigger issue at stake. Blame every one else for failure, but cant see the real issues. The US Constitution cant save people it cant force righteousness the people have to have a good moral code of living as dictated by the bible else the constitution has no worth. Those that wrote the constitution understood that, how is it that you guys are unable to understand it. Just run around like a chicken without a head crying if more people stood up for the constitution the world would be a righteous place. No the moral code of conduct comes first prior to the constitution.

In a last ditch effort to save the world the Prophets started the Hastening, way to late to for some constitution to save the people. No no no no the people refused to repent when the missionaries preached the gospel to the citizens of the US that is why things have failed. The D&C is awash with scriptures saying the saints will be spared the the wicked who did not repent will be burnt. You now judge the members as being the cause of the wickedness - it is a pathetic misunderstanding and there are many scriptures to prove it.

D&C 109:45 We know that thou hast spoken by the mouth of thy prophets terrible things concerning the wicked, in the last days—that thou wilt pour out thy judgments, without measure;
46 Therefore, O Lord, deliver thy people from the calamity of the wicked; enable thy servants to seal up the law, and bind up the testimony, that they may be prepared against the day of burning.
Alma 31:5
5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.

Helaman 4:22
22 And that they had altered and trampled under their feet the alaws of Mosiah, or that which the Lord commanded him to give unto the people; and they saw that their laws had become corrupted, and that they had become a wicked people, insomuch that they were wicked even like unto the Lamanites.

John Adams
Gentleman,
While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays I have received from Major-General Hull and Brigadier, General Walker your unanimous address from Lexington, animated with a martial spirit, and expressed with a military dignity becoming your character and the memorable plains on which it was adopted. in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candor, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the Nvorld; because we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, • would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Robin Hood » Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am

freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:43 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:19 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:02 am


So what!
I also have no interest in these people; all of whom were technically treasonous.
Actually, those men you say were treasonous were among the smarter and wiser ones and this is why God chose them to sign the Constitution. Sad that you don't know your own history or related scripture showing these great men for who they truly were in the sight of God...not men.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:80
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

Treasonous, indeed!
Let's say Texas decided to rebel against the US and leave the union. They armed a militia and fought against the national guard and other federal agencies sent to bring them into line. They fought them off with the help of the Russians, and then declared their independence.
The ring leaders then sign a new govenance document.
Would these men have committed treason?
I would suggest that most Texans would regard them as heroes, while most of the other 49 states would regard them as traitors.
It's strange to think that a bishop outside of the US who has all the gifts of the Spirit cannot discern the importance of the Constitution, or even acknowledge that it came from God, how and why, even to the point of mocking it and its origin.

D&C 46:27
27 And unto the bishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to discern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.
Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Spaced_Out » Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am
Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.
Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby lundbaek » Mon May 01, 2017 11:22 am

It is not Americans generally that have created the bloodshed and horror to which Spaced-Out refers. It is "this secret combination" which the Lord thru Moroni told us "shall be among you", and which a latter-day Prophet, President Benson, told us "seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries [and] is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world." that is responsible for the bloodshed and horror to which Spaced-Out refers. I fault some Americans for fomenting it, many Americans for not recognizing and trying to prevent it. And for those who think all the bloodshed and horror was created to promote democracy, I once again have a nice piece of real estate across the East River between Brooklyn and Manhattan for sale at a cheap price.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby EmmaLee » Mon May 01, 2017 3:03 pm

Spaced_Out wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am
Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
main-qimg-4f068db3c8820967b8944a795d8a7569-c.jpg
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby BrianM » Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm

So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

The Matrix is real...

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby EmmaLee » Mon May 01, 2017 3:17 pm

BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Have any U.S. presidents killed more people than the men in the above graph? If so, please tell us their names and how many millions of people they have killed.
Arguing with a fool only proves there are two.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Serragon » Mon May 01, 2017 3:26 pm

Spaced_Out wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am

Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
This is simply false. I am amazed that anyone could feel comfortable proselytizing a message like this when the truth is so readily available. You have to be extremely willfully ignorant to believe nonsense like this. There is no equation you can create where you can show the those tyrannical deathpits to be the product of the USA.

We definately have our sins to repent of. But in the scheme of things, western culture has been a bright light in an otherwise abysmally dark world. The very fact you can evangelize a ridiculous sentiment like you did is evidence of such.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby BrianM » Mon May 01, 2017 3:28 pm

I don't know, it would be interesting to see a comparison.. and a comparison between different US presidents.
EmmaLee wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:17 pm
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Have any U.S. presidents killed more people than the men in the above graph? If so, please tell us their names and how many millions of people they have killed.
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

The Matrix is real...

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby EmmaLee » Mon May 01, 2017 3:35 pm

It would be. My guess is FDR or Lincoln would take the lead, don't know for sure though. My point (obviously) in posting the graph was to show what an ignorant statement was made by saying Americans have killed more people than anyone else in the world. Since no U.S. president has killed anywhere near the number of people these other dictators have, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. Having said that, it's shameful that the U.S. has killed anyone that hasn't directly attacked us on our own soil. As bad as those numbers may be, they pale in comparison to the true mass murderers of the last century or two.
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:28 pm
I don't know, it would be interesting to see a comparison.. and a comparison between different US presidents.
EmmaLee wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:17 pm
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Have any U.S. presidents killed more people than the men in the above graph? If so, please tell us their names and how many millions of people they have killed.
Arguing with a fool only proves there are two.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Mon May 01, 2017 6:05 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:43 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:19 pm


Actually, those men you say were treasonous were among the smarter and wiser ones and this is why God chose them to sign the Constitution. Sad that you don't know your own history or related scripture showing these great men for who they truly were in the sight of God...not men.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:80
80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

Treasonous, indeed!
Let's say Texas decided to rebel against the US and leave the union. They armed a militia and fought against the national guard and other federal agencies sent to bring them into line. They fought them off with the help of the Russians, and then declared their independence.
The ring leaders then sign a new govenance document.
Would these men have committed treason?
I would suggest that most Texans would regard them as heroes, while most of the other 49 states would regard them as traitors.
It's strange to think that a bishop outside of the US who has all the gifts of the Spirit cannot discern the importance of the Constitution, or even acknowledge that it came from God, how and why, even to the point of mocking it and its origin.

D&C 46:27
27 And unto the bishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to discern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.
Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.
So what is it called when a non American who loves their country calls the Founders of our Constitution having been written and signed by non Americans,some from your beloved country....traitors? How does it feel to have the tables turned?

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Mon May 01, 2017 7:34 pm

Genocides in history

United States

During the American Indian Wars, the American Army carried out a number of massacres and forced relocations of Indigenous peoples, acts that some scholars say constitute genocide. The Sand Creek Massacre, which caused outrage in its own time, has been called genocide. General John Chivington led a 700-man force of Colorado Territory militia in a massacre of 70–163 peaceful Cheyenne and Arapaho, about two-thirds of whom were women, children, and infants. Chivington and his men took scalps and other body parts as trophies, including human fetuses and male and female genitalia.[85] In defense of his actions Chivington stated.............

Read more at website.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Robin Hood » Mon May 01, 2017 11:14 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 6:05 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:43 pm


Let's say Texas decided to rebel against the US and leave the union. They armed a militia and fought against the national guard and other federal agencies sent to bring them into line. They fought them off with the help of the Russians, and then declared their independence.
The ring leaders then sign a new govenance document.
Would these men have committed treason?
I would suggest that most Texans would regard them as heroes, while most of the other 49 states would regard them as traitors.
It's strange to think that a bishop outside of the US who has all the gifts of the Spirit cannot discern the importance of the Constitution, or even acknowledge that it came from God, how and why, even to the point of mocking it and its origin.

D&C 46:27
27 And unto the bishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to discern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.
Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.
So what is it called when a non American who loves their country calls the Founders of our Constitution having been written and signed by non Americans,some from your beloved country....traitors? How does it feel to have the tables turned?
If the cap fits.......

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Spaced_Out » Tue May 02, 2017 12:10 am

Serragon wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:26 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am

Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
This is simply false. I am amazed that anyone could feel comfortable proselytizing a message like this when the truth is so readily available. You have to be extremely willfully ignorant to believe nonsense like this. There is no equation you can create where you can show the those tyrannical deathpits to be the product of the USA.

We definately have our sins to repent of. But in the scheme of things, western culture has been a bright light in an otherwise abysmally dark world. The very fact you can evangelize a ridiculous sentiment like you did is evidence of such.
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
America has destabilised and impoverished countless countries, Just as an example Ukraine, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were the latest CIA interference that started those wars. I fought in Angola and Namibia a war started by the US tying to prevent Russian influence in Africa. Angola today has the highest percentage of cripples. Where ever America interferes it leaves a trail of destruction. America is also the number one exporter of vice like porn and abortion.

If one had to do a real body count the US will be on top of the list by a factor of 10... You still believe all that propaganda they teach in the US schools.. haha you guys are too busy killing your own children to even care, and we won't talk about the Laminate genocide 50-100 million..

Abortions +60 million 300,000 just this year to date.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

Just as an example - Korean War 1.5 million...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world ... ast-facts/
U.S. Troops Statistics:
Source: Dept. of Defense
U.S. Deaths:
Hostile: 33,739
Non-Hostile: 2,835
Total In-Theatre: 36,574
U.S. Wounded in Action - 103,284
Other Casualties by Country (killed and missing):
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica
South Korea - (217,000 military, 1,000,000 civilian)
North Korea - (406,000 military, 600,000 civilian)
China - (600,000 military)
Last edited by Spaced_Out on Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Spaced_Out » Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am

BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 2:28 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 11:14 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 6:05 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am
freedomforall wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:27 pm

It's strange to think that a bishop outside of the US who has all the gifts of the Spirit cannot discern the importance of the Constitution, or even acknowledge that it came from God, how and why, even to the point of mocking it and its origin.

D&C 46:27
27 And unto the bishop of the church, and unto such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church and to be elders unto the church, are to have it given unto them to discern all those gifts lest there shall be any among you professing and yet be not of God.
Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.
So what is it called when a non American who loves their country calls the Founders of our Constitution having been written and signed by non Americans,some from your beloved country....traitors? How does it feel to have the tables turned?
If the cap fits.......
Sorry, but we don't wear these type of English manufactured caps.

Image

Ours are more cool looking for every day sports and showing how much Americans have advanced over the centuries.

Image

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 2:53 am

Image

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Robin Hood » Tue May 02, 2017 4:06 am

freedomforall wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 2:28 am
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 11:14 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 6:05 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 1:14 am


Strange for you maybe.
The truth is that some, and I emphasise the word "some" American members, even on this otherwise excellemt forum, exhibit what can only be described as arrogance when it comes to this issue.
Pride in ones country is one thing (and a good thing), but when that morphes into an arrogance that desires or even requires people not of ones country to comply with ones love of ones country's founding document, there is something seriously misguided in that national pride. It's a pride which has developed it's reasoming from "we're great" to "we're better than you".

Can you not see that we, non-American LDS, love our own country much more than we love yours? Can you not see that we have our own constitutions which were also inspired by God for our benefit? Have you not considered the possibility that God has a purpose in the nations; that it might just be possible that he isn't himself an American?

Celebrating your Constitution and the rights and priveleges it provides for the people of the US, and the good it's influence has done in the world through the American nation, is a good thing. Reading and studying it is also a good thing. But questioning the motivations of non-American committed LDS members residing happily in other nations, is thoroughly out of order, and in my view, very unAmerican.
So what is it called when a non American who loves their country calls the Founders of our Constitution having been written and signed by non Americans,some from your beloved country....traitors? How does it feel to have the tables turned?
If the cap fits.......
Sorry, but we don't wear these type of English manufactured caps.

Image

Ours are more cool looking for every day sports and showing how much Americans have advanced over the centuries.

Image
Really?
You surprise me, because we manufacture them exclusively for the American market.
Apparently you guys can't get enough of them. Some chap with the initials "KKK" apparently.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Serragon » Tue May 02, 2017 10:29 am

Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:10 am
Serragon wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:26 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am

Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
This is simply false. I am amazed that anyone could feel comfortable proselytizing a message like this when the truth is so readily available. You have to be extremely willfully ignorant to believe nonsense like this. There is no equation you can create where you can show the those tyrannical deathpits to be the product of the USA.

We definately have our sins to repent of. But in the scheme of things, western culture has been a bright light in an otherwise abysmally dark world. The very fact you can evangelize a ridiculous sentiment like you did is evidence of such.
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
America has destabilised and impoverished countless countries, Just as an example Ukraine, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were the latest CIA interference that started those wars. I fought in Angola and Namibia a war started by the US tying to prevent Russian influence in Africa. Angola today has the highest percentage of cripples. Where ever America interferes it leaves a trail of destruction. America is also the number one exporter of vice like porn and abortion.

If one had to do a real body count the US will be on top of the list by a factor of 10... You still believe all that propaganda they teach in the US schools.. haha you guys are too busy killing your own children to even care, and we won't talk about the Laminate genocide 50-100 million..

Abortions +60 million 300,000 just this year to date.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

Just as an example - Korean War 1.5 million...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world ... ast-facts/
U.S. Troops Statistics:
Source: Dept. of Defense
U.S. Deaths:
Hostile: 33,739
Non-Hostile: 2,835
Total In-Theatre: 36,574
U.S. Wounded in Action - 103,284
Other Casualties by Country (killed and missing):
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica
South Korea - (217,000 military, 1,000,000 civilian)
North Korea - (406,000 military, 600,000 civilian)
China - (600,000 military)

Numbers without context are just that.. numbers.

There is a vast difference between the Korean War and what Joseph Stalin did. There is a difference between offense and defense. You are drawing equivalency where it doesn't exist and then concluding the US is the worse by a significant measure.

You have accused others in this thread of having their minds fogged and not being able to think. I think a look in the mirror is in order.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 12:15 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 4:06 am
Really?
You surprise me, because we manufacture them exclusively for the American market.
Apparently you guys can't get enough of them. Some chap with the initials "KKK" apparently.
Are you saying that the UK manufactures and supplies hats for secret combinations, and you support this?

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freedomforall
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 12:33 pm

Serragon wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 10:29 am
Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:10 am
Serragon wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:26 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 4:20 am

Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
This is simply false. I am amazed that anyone could feel comfortable proselytizing a message like this when the truth is so readily available. You have to be extremely willfully ignorant to believe nonsense like this. There is no equation you can create where you can show the those tyrannical deathpits to be the product of the USA.

We definately have our sins to repent of. But in the scheme of things, western culture has been a bright light in an otherwise abysmally dark world. The very fact you can evangelize a ridiculous sentiment like you did is evidence of such.
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
America has destabilised and impoverished countless countries, Just as an example Ukraine, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were the latest CIA interference that started those wars. I fought in Angola and Namibia a war started by the US tying to prevent Russian influence in Africa. Angola today has the highest percentage of cripples. Where ever America interferes it leaves a trail of destruction. America is also the number one exporter of vice like porn and abortion.

If one had to do a real body count the US will be on top of the list by a factor of 10... You still believe all that propaganda they teach in the US schools.. haha you guys are too busy killing your own children to even care, and we won't talk about the Laminate genocide 50-100 million..

Abortions +60 million 300,000 just this year to date.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

Just as an example - Korean War 1.5 million...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world ... ast-facts/
U.S. Troops Statistics:
Source: Dept. of Defense
U.S. Deaths:
Hostile: 33,739
Non-Hostile: 2,835
Total In-Theatre: 36,574
U.S. Wounded in Action - 103,284
Other Casualties by Country (killed and missing):
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica
South Korea - (217,000 military, 1,000,000 civilian)
North Korea - (406,000 military, 600,000 civilian)
China - (600,000 military)

Numbers without context are just that.. numbers.

There is a vast difference between the Korean War and what Joseph Stalin did. There is a difference between offense and defense. You are drawing equivalency where it doesn't exist and then concluding the US is the worse by a significant measure.

You have accused others in this thread of having their minds fogged and not being able to think. I think a look in the mirror is in order.
Talk about pulling numbers out of thin air. I wonder how many people that practice this attended the Pierce Morgan School of Magic.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Dave62 » Tue May 02, 2017 2:14 pm

Oh for Pete's sake! What a dreadful discussion that has descended into a sledging match. X( "Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?" If you are an American Saint, yes, of course! If you are not an American Saint, you should be aware of its principles but it would be unwise to abide by it. How hard is this concept?
I do not know all things, but I know the Father loves His children.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 5:22 pm

Dave62 wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 2:14 pm
Oh for Pete's sake! What a dreadful discussion that has descended into a sledging match. X( "Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?" If you are an American Saint, yes, of course! If you are not an American Saint, you should be aware of its principles but it would be unwise to abide by it. How hard is this concept?
President Benson asked the "Saints", apparently everywhere since GC is telecast all around the world, to read "None Dare Call It Conspiracy". How many did read it? How many said it didn't apply to them? How many said, Pres, you're nuts?
Did he ask people to read it just to flap his lips?
I've read it. Lundbaek has read it, and a few others.
Have you read it?
The concept is very hard when people ignore counsel.

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God. We may not fully understand why, but God said also:

8 ¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby eddie » Tue May 02, 2017 6:43 pm

Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby freedomforall » Tue May 02, 2017 8:18 pm

eddie wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 6:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
Image

eddie
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby eddie » Tue May 02, 2017 9:06 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 8:18 pm
eddie wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 6:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
Image

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Read more at http://www.notable-quotes.com/s/serling ... rA5RzdI.99

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Robin Hood
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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Robin Hood » Tue May 02, 2017 11:18 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:15 pm
Robin Hood wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 4:06 am
Really?
You surprise me, because we manufacture them exclusively for the American market.
Apparently you guys can't get enough of them. Some chap with the initials "KKK" apparently.
Are you saying that the UK manufactures and supplies hats for secret combinations, and you support this?
Yep, anything to make a quid or two.
Let's face it, they can't be very clever secret combinations if they have to source their head gear from abroad. Either that, or they use them as huge ice cream cones!

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Spaced_Out » Wed May 03, 2017 12:12 am

eddie wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 6:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 12:30 am
BrianM wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:10 pm
So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
I gave references and there are hundreds of references on the stats that I posted. The US is greatest mass murdered of all time - the great whore of Babylon. You can live in denial all you like but soon the US in its current form will be no more, as it has not repented.
Wilford Woodruff wrote: I will here say that God has inspired me to keep a journal and write the history of this Church, and I warn the future historians to give credence to my history; for my testimony is true, and the truth of its record will be manifest in the world to come.

All the words of the Lord will be fulfilled upon the nations, which are written in this book. The American nation will be broken in pieces like a potter’s vessel, and will be cast down to hell, if it does not repent, and this, because of murders, whoredoms, wickedness, and all manner of abominations, for the Lord has spoken it. (Matthias F. Cowley, Wilford Woodruff, p.500)
The BoM clearly states that the people on the promised land must keep the commandments or be swept away, the big broom is coming in a few months :-ss :-ss :-ss .

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Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Postby Robin Hood » Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 am

freedomforall wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 5:22 pm


The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.


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