Gospel one uppers...

[ChelC]

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Are the Saints advised to share their food storage items with unprepared households during crises of indeterminable length? The parable of the ten virgins seems to indicate not.

Vaughn J. Featherstone, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Oct. 1976, 31–32

Bishop Vaughn J. Featherstone, second counselor in the Presiding Bishopric In the general conference welfare meeting on Saturday morning, April 3, 1976, I discussed this subject. My exact quote regarding that statement is as follows:

“I should like to address a few remarks to those who ask, ‘Do I share with my neighbors who have not followed the counsel? And what about the nonmembers who do not have a year’s supply? Do we have to share with them?’ No, we don’t have to share—we get to share! Let us not be concerned about silly thoughts of whether we would share or not. Of course we would share! What would Jesus do? I could not possibly eat food and see my neighbors starving. And if you starve after sharing, ‘greater love hath no man than this …’ (John 15:13.)

“Now, what about those who would plunder and break in and take that which we have stored for our families’ needs? Don’t give this one more idle thought. There is a God in heaven whom we have obeyed. Do you suppose he would abandon those who have kept his commandments? He said, ‘If ye are prepared ye shall not fear.’ (D&C 38:30.) Prepare, O men of Zion, and fear not.” (Ensign, May 1976, pp. 117–18.)

These are very strong personal feelings. They have come to me over the years as I have read the scriptures. In my humble opinion, the second greatest discourse ever was given by King Benjamin. In that discourse he discussed what our attitude should be.

“And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.

“Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just.” (Mosiah 4:16–17.)

You can see from the first two verses that the punishments of those who have not put away a year’s supply of food may be just. And so in our minds we may rationalize and suggest to ourselves that we have no need to share, but King Benjamin goes on to say:

“But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.

“For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?

“And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceeding great was your joy.” (Mosiah 4:18–20; italics added.)

What brother in the priesthood or sister in the gospel could possibly see a nearby family starving to death and feel that they were justified in withholding their substance? As I mentioned in my talk, I believe the question that we must all ask ourselves is “What would Jesus do if he were here and faced with this problem?” In his ministry, you will recall that he spent most of his time with those in poverty, the grief-stricken, the poor, the poor in spirit, the leperous, the blind, the maimed, etc. He said: “They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.” (Matt. 9:12.)

I think herein we find the answer to the question posed above.

The part of the question relating to the five wise and the five foolish virgins may not refer to substance and physical wants—I think it rather refers to spiritual preparedness. I think the measure of whether we have sufficient oil in our lamps or not will not be determined by how much wheat we have in our basement, but rather, if we are keeping all the commandments of God. Are we paying our tithes and offerings? Are we loving our fellowman in that Christlike way the Savior would have us do? Are we filling our assignments in the Church and exercising our stewardship in that way which is appropriate and pleasing to the Lord? Are we pure in heart? Do we follow the prophet? Are we exercising righteous dominion in our homes? Are we actually committed and converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ and living those standards and principles? These are the questions I think we need to ask ourselves regarding whether our lamps have sufficient oil or not. I do not think it refers to the substance we have in our basements for a year’s supply.
Let me here conclude by repeating a challenge I offered in that same talk that we ought to have a year’s supply of food by April 1977. I mentioned that the Lord would open up the way to help us achieve that goal. Let us then recommit ourselves to reducing or eliminating our vacation if we do not at present have a year’s supply of food and use that money to buy our year’s supply. Let us spend part or all of our Christmas money on a year’s supply. Let us cut our recreation budget in half. Let us be very frugal and store the basics: wheat or grains of your community, salt, sugar or honey, dry milk, and water—these are the basics.

It is thrilling to live in a Church with vision, with charity and love, a Church that has a modern prophet to guide us. In his talk at the general conference welfare meeting, President Kimball referred several times to the statement by the Lord, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46.) It was very impressive and powerful as he said this over and over again. Why, indeed? May the Lord bless us to call him Lord, Lord, but also to do what he asks us to do.

How does one reconcile President Brigham Young’s statement that “it is natural for the child to be influenced by the Spirit of God” with King Benjamin’s assertion that “the natural man is an enemy to God”?

Spencer J. Condie, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Oct. 1976, 32–33

Spencer J. Condie, chairman, Sociology Department, Brigham Young University To dispute the proper meaning of the word “natural” would miss the message which Brigham Young, King Benjamin, and the apostle Paul sought to convey by their references to the natural man. President Young’s statement, placed in the context of his speech, included the following points:

“I wish to inform you that it is nature for the child to be influenced by the Spirit of God. It is nature for all people to be influenced by a good spirit; and the evil that is spoken of is the power the Devil has gained upon this earth through the fall. He gained power to tempt the children of men, and wickedness is produced through their yielding to his temptations; but it is not nature in them. They are not ‘conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity,’ pertaining to their spirits. It is the flesh that is alluded to in that passage. Then why not follow the dictates of the good Spirit?” (Journal of Discourses, 6:330.)

President Young’s statement seems to be entirely congruent with the thought expressed in Doctrine and Covenants 93:38: “Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state innocent before God.” [D&C 93:38] Thus, the natural man is a child of God, a child of light, at least until he reaches the age of accountability. Doctrine and Covenants 29:46–47 proclaims: “Little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten; Wherefore, they cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me.” [D&C 29:46–47] In other words, children, prior to the age of accountability, despite the occasional acting out of undesirable influences in unapproved ways, are nevertheless naturally good.

After reaching the age of accountability, children become susceptible to the temptings of Satan alluded to in section 29. [D&C 29] However, through baptism for the remission of sins and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, they also become susceptible to the enticings of the Holy Spirit as proclaimed by King Benjamin in his benedictory address: “For the natural man is an enemy to God, … and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord. …” (Mosiah 3:19.)

When one yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, he will then put off the natural man and become “a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.” (Mosiah 3:19.) It then becomes more natural for him to do good than to do evil, and he is in a position to follow the admonition of the late President Joseph Fielding Smith, who asserted that it is just as easy (or natural) to keep the commandments of God as it is to break them. (New Era, July 1972, p. 23.)

The word “natural” in the context in which Brigham Young uses it (similar to the word “normal”) refers to the nature of the young child, who is naturally devoid of evil. In the context of the words of Paul and King Benjamin the word “natural” may be construed to mean that type of behavior which is most prevalent, most common, or most easily engaged in by most of those who have reached the age of accountability.

The statement of President Brigham Young obviously concurs with the words which the angel put into the heart of King Benjamin, for Brigham Young speaks of following the “dictates of the good Spirit” while King Benjamin advocates “yielding to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.”

One of the most significant lessons that Latter-day Saints can learn is that the Holy Ghost plays a very active role in our lives in enticing and persuading us to do good (Mosiah 3:19; Ether 4:11) and in striving with us (Moro. 8:28; 1 Ne. 7:14) in our attempts to achieve perfection and to be naturally attracted to that which is “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy” (A of F 1:13).

According to King Benjamin, the natural man is an enemy to God unless he yields to the Holy Spirit. Upon yielding to the Spirit he is no longer an enemy to God but rather a friend of the Savior, who has said: “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” (John 15:14.) Perhaps President Joseph Fielding Smith best described this transition in our “natural” inclinations as we ascend our secret Sinais, subdue devilish drives on Damascus Roads, and seek sanctification in sacred groves:

“When a man confesses that it is hard to keep the commandments of the Lord, he is making a sad confession—that he is a violator of the Gospel law. Habits are easily formed. It is just as easy to form good habits as it is to form evil ones. Of course it is not easy to tell the truth, if you have been a confirmed liar. It is not easy to be honest, if you have formed habits of dishonesty. A man finds it very difficult to pray, if he has never prayed. On the other side, when a man has always been truthful, it is a hard thing for him to lie. If he has always been honest and he does some dishonest thing, his conscience protests very loudly. He will find no peace, except in repentance. If a man has the spirit of prayer, he delights in prayer. It is easy for him to approach the Lord with assurance that his petition will be answered. The paying of tithing is not hard for the man, fully converted to the Gospel, who pays his tenth on all that he receives. So we see the Lord has given us a great truth—his yoke is easy, his burden is light, if we love to do his will!” (New Era, July 1972, p. 23.)

We are active in the Church, paying a full tithe, and trying to live a righteous life, yet we find ourselves unable to meet our financial obligations and are going deeper into debt. Is there something wrong with us?

Robert F. Bohn, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Oct. 1976, 33

Robert F. Bohn, family economics and home management instructor, Brigham Young University First, there’s often no connection between righteousness and financial situation. A parallel can be seen in the Word of Wisdom. Part of the Lord’s law of health is a very comforting promise.

“And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones; …

“And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.” (D&C 89:18, 20.)

Does this general promise mean that a righteous member could not become seriously ill? We all know how false that situation is. In much the same way it is possible for the general law of tithing with its promised blessings to be true even though not every individual case reaps the financial blessings. In my experience, I find that tithe-paying Latter-day Saints are financially better off on the average than nontithe-paying members. But I also know devoted Latter-day Saints who have financial difficulty, who sometimes lose their jobs, who sometimes go into debt.

In a discussion of finances, the most important issue, in my opinion, is not a person’s devotion to the Church but his practice of wise financial stewardship. It is basically our responsibility to learn how to govern our temporal lives, and to pray for the Lord’s direction in the areas over which we have no control.

Because of our responsibility to raise large families and build the kingdom on this earth, it is extremely important for Latter-day Saints to become excellent money managers. Here are some places you might contact for information:

1. Your bishop.

2. Your local Social Services counselor.

3. Classes at a community college, university, or an adult education program offered through your school district’s high school.

4. Consumer information groups or publications. (Your local librarian will be able to help you.)

5. Financial counselors either in community counseling centers or private practice.

6. Individual study of the principles and practices of sound money management.

[Captain Moroni]

ChelC, great quote. Yes, oil is spirituality which groes drop by drop over many years. That is exactly why we are told to endure to the END. But would you agree that oil cannot be bought in the marketplace nor can it be gotten in just one day?

[Captain Moroni]

Yes, parables have multiple levels of depth and and each depth brings a differnt meaning. What then is your understanding of the parable of Ten Virgins and its many symbols. Sure criticize me but then it is your obligation to show other better alternatives. IF you do that, I would deeply appreciate being enlightened.

[Captain Moroni]

ChelC, oil again is your spirituality level which cannot be bought in the marketplace like the unwise virgins were told to do by the wise virgins: it is developed in the many ways you have suggested. The wise virgins weren't being SELFISH or unlike King Benjamin as implied in the talk you posted?? The wise virgins couldn't give them any of their spirituality which again is the oil.. It is IMPOSSIBLE!!!

HCK told us that in the last days we MUST live on our own light (spirtuality). If we don't we WILL fall. Would you suggest that even if oil could be given to the unwise that their borrowed spirituality would be enough for them to enter into the bridegroom?

I guess I better start a thread on my understanding of the TEn Virgins because I apparently am NOT being clear enough.

[John Adams]

My thoughts -

It's both - spiritual & temporal preparedness. I believe more now than ever that I need the spiritual knowledge to know what to temporally prepare. I think there may be some "food storage" junkies that are extremely prepared temporally, but spiritually are lacking and therefore will not be able to get along with anyone else and will still destroy themselves with all their temporal preparedness.

As for being spiritually prepared and not having any temporal preparations - I don't think that is feasible. If we are spiritually prepared then we will be doing the best we can (gaining our own personal inspiration) on how to best temporally prepare. For example - some of us may be prompted to buy a tent, some of us may not; but if we're both spiritually prepared then we hopefully get the promptings on if a tent would be applicable for our situation or not. Those that don't have a tent don't get to get any inspiration for those that are prompted to buy one (and vice versa).

Then if at some point in the future the one without needs one, I believe miracles will occur (or vice versa if the one with a tent doesn't need one - there still will be a reason for the purchase based on the prompting).

My two cents.

[Captain Moroni]

John Adams. well said. BTW have you read the recent excellent biography of John Adams?

[John Adams]

John Adams. well said. BTW have you read the recent excellent biography of John Adams?

My dad gave it to my for my birthday, but then immediately borrowed it; so I haven't had a chance to read it yet (I've read many other biographies about him, but I still would like to read this one as well.)

[shadow]

ChelC, great quote. Yes, oil is spirituality which groes drop by drop over many years. That is exactly why we are told to endure to the END. But would you agree that oil cannot be bought in the marketplace nor can it be gotten in just one day?

I've been wandering around for the last few years looking for an Iron Rod to hold to. Heck, I've even checked out my bishps house and all I could find was a wooden rod. Oh well, that silly Lehi.

[Captain Moroni]

Shadow, I certainly appreciate the sound ideas you bring to the dialogue. (NOT) Mocking is NOT a characteristic of a real converted saint but one who resides in the Great House seen in Lehi's dream.

[ShawnC]

Shadow, I certainly appreciate the sound ideas you bring to the dialogue. (NOT) Mocking is NOT a characteristic of a real converted saint but one who resides in the Great House seen in Lehi's dream.

Shadow,

I appreciate your humor and even sarcasm quite a bit. I must say though that Doug makes a good point here about the GaS building and those who mocked. The sarcasm could be toned down a little?

Shawn

[shadow]

Shadow, I certainly appreciate the sound ideas you bring to the dialogue. (NOT) Hey, you just mocked me you silly hypocrite Mocking is NOT a characteristic of a real converted saint but one who resides in the Great House seen in Lehi's dream.

It's just my way of saying scriptures aren't always so literal, it wasn't mocking. ChelC posted a talk from a GA that said what the oil is. Then you countered the current living gospel with a version found in the bible that very well could be translated incorrectly that suggests you can buy oil at the markets. I believe the oil is more than going to the literal markets while they are open and literally buying food storage. In fact, I don't believe the oil represents food storage at all. The only thing that relates is being obedient to that particular command, wihich is one of many, many commands. I might suggest that the markets are all around us all the time. They are the choices we make. I start my day by going to the market of daily options. What goods do I buy (and sell) that day makes me the person I am (Christlike or not). Do I help a neighbor? Do I pray? Do I serve? Am I a good Dad, Husband, and Son? Did I keep the Word of Wisdom etc. etc. When Christ comes, times up. The whistle blows. No more time to run to the market and make good choices. No more time to buy up a reserve of oil. -My opinion of course. I hope that didn't come off as matter of fact like other posters on this site.

[shadow]

Shadow,

I appreciate your humor and even sarcasm quite a bit. I must say though that Doug makes a good point here about the GaS building and those who mocked. The sarcasm could be toned down a little?

Shawn

You're probably right. Sorry for any offense.

[Captain Moroni]

Shadow, firest I am so glad to see you post something of substance without mockery. It seems you have misquoted me. The oil is NOT your food storage: spirituality is the oil. Are you closing reading what I actually say or just popping off?

[shadow]

Capt., without re-reading your posts of the day, did you not suggest that the 5 foolish virgins were the ones without food storage?

[ChelC]

Captain Moroni, I'm totally confused about what you are trying to say, please itemize your points or something, because clearly we're not communicating here.

[Captain Moroni]

Shadow, yes I said that the unwise virgens didn't have their food supply. But food supply is NOT the oil. Spirtuality is the oil which cannot be bought at any market. Food supply, however, can be bought at any market.

[Captain Moroni]

ChelC, I;m assuming that you have gone back and read all my posts on the Ten Virgins? Where do you feel that there is confusion?

[Stumpjumper]

ChelC, great quote. Yes, oil is spirituality which groes drop by drop over many years. That is exactly why we are told to endure to the END. But would you agree that oil cannot be bought in the marketplace nor can it be gotten in just one day?

I've been wandering around for the last few years looking for an Iron Rod to hold to. Heck, I've even checked out my bishps house and all I could find was a wooden rod. Oh well, that silly Lehi.

LOL I heard they had Iron ones in the Clerks closet for those that are not paying the 10%
The wooden ones are old school

[drjme]

Yes, parables have multiple levels of depth and and each depth brings a differnt meaning. What then is your understanding of the parable of Ten Virgins and its many symbols. Sure criticize me but then it is your obligation to show other better alternatives. IF you do that, I would deeply appreciate being enlightened.

Did I criticize your interpretation of the parable? No. Am I saying your intepretation is wrong? no. I merely stated that there are multiple meanings for parables. For you to say that 'my meaning is right and yours is wrong' is where you err. Your condescending attitude to those who don't agree with you is where you err. I'm not going to go and tell you I have a better interpretation of what it means, and that yours is wrong, because it is irrelavant and the point of the parable, you get what you need out of it.
You read into it and interpret what is relevant to you. for some, making sure you have enough oil on a dark night will be wise counsel, for others it will relate to spiritual preparedness and a lesson in obedience, and for you it relates to food storage. Again I'm not mocking the you it's just with judgements like:
'Mocking is NOT a characteristic of a real converted saint but one who resides in the Great House seen in Lehi's dream.' and 'I love to be challenged as an academic of 30 years experience' and 'So go ahead and continue living with a "all is well in Zion" outlook at your own detriment.',that somehow gives you the right to declare what interpretation of scripture is right or wrong, especially a parable, which are specifically open to interpretation, used to appeal to the specific level of understanding of the listener/reader, is prideful and arrogant.
We know food storage is important, not disagreeing there, but I don't need that parable to tell me that, It's already clear from the words of the prophets that it is important. I wonder if anyone at the time the parable was first spoken was thinking 'Yep, He is definately talking about food storage.', maybe and maybe not. Christ spoke the parable yet he himself did not travel with storage, He travelled with nothing, everything was provided to him and his disciples by faith, through others providing on their journeys, or by miracles. If you are saying that this relates to ONLY food storage, then He is not living what He taught.

yes I said that the unwise virgens didn't have their food supply. But food supply is NOT the oil. Spirtuality is the oil which cannot be bought at any market. Food supply, however, can be bought at any market.

So what is the symbol of food supply then, if not the oil? as that is what differentiates the wise and foolish.

[Captain Moroni]

Drjme, I have NOT required anyone to believe as I do??? Yes, I have plainly and boldly stated what my interpretation is (Please don't associate boldness with arrogance because we are commanded to be BOLD in our testimonies). I asked you and others in turn to provide an interpretation within the context of all scripture if you have real problems with my interpretation in context of the Gospel. Not all spiritual opinions are of the same value... informed opinions count much more to me.

If this is being prideful and arrogant, I plead guilty.

I do appreciate, however, your effort to provide some alternative conclusions especially the one about Jesus, although I think that example is not relevant to the dialogue. The Bridegroom is Christ and we are the virgins. Also, this related to the first coming, not the second coming.

Will you be joining us on the new thread where a full description with support of my interpretation will be dialogued?