Democracy: The God that Failed

[ROB GIBBSEN]

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Economi ... 754&sr=8-1
A Review

Personally I had never fallen for the myth of democracy (neither had any of the founding fathers of America; do a web search on James Madison quotes, for example). It ought to be obvious to any thinking person, or anyone who talks to the typical voter, that mob rule cannot work. But my objection was always more along the lines of that of Traditionalists, such as Julius Evola. Despite my knowledge of Austrian economics, of which Hoppe is of course a devotee, I had never thought of objecting on a purely economic basis.

That's what makes this book so valuable: Hoppe uses the only existing valid economic theory to demolish any illusions any serious person might have about mob rule.

The book is not perfect. Hoppe lacks the perspective that comes with an understanding of history as cyclical. This causes him to imagine that ideas are what drives social organizations; of course, ideas are only invented after the fact, to rationalize whatever stage a given society has reached. Humans act on instinct. All civilizations pass through the same phases. There is nothing that can stop the ongoing collapse of the West. Likewise, monarchies always follow the anarcho-capitalism phase Hoppe prefers (which in practical terms will reduce to a benign feudalism, as the natural elites emerge as rulers of small domains). Monarchies are in turn replaced by mobs as the society comes unglued. It is much the same on the individual level. The poor strive and save and become rich; the rich become decadent and spend their capital inheritance, and again become poor, and the cycle starts anew...

Nevertheless this is the best book on political theory I have seen simply because it is the only one written from the perspective of real economics. It gets extra points for not shrinking from very important ideas which are controversial, for example footnoting the work of social scientists such as J. P. Rushton, which of course the false schools of sociologists and egalitarians despise and fear. And personally I like this better than Evola's pro-monarchist works because it doesn't ever devolve into mushy mysticism. An absolute must for the bookshelf of anyone who wants to understand the exact mechanisms by which the West was undone.

Lew Rockwell interviews Hans-Hermann Hoppe
http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=e ... failed.mp3

[Darren]

The issue is that just like following a course with a compass, there is 359 degrees of wrong choices and only one degree of the right. Every system of government that is not the right one is wrong, period. We cannot afford to have any of the wrong ones, regardless of how good(?) it is.

So what is the only correct one?

The ancient Saxons, according to Thomas Jefferson, had it.

God Bless,
Darren

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

Since the U.S. Constitution was established through Jesus Christ by wise men that he raised up for that purpose, I think that it is the only government that could be the right government until he reigns.

With how wicked and nasty everything I see is lately, I do not see enough people that are moral and righteous enough to live it....

It is like in the bOM uniting with unrighteous only because you are united in your dislike for those that are destroying good government.

[Jenny]

Since the U.S. Constitution was established through Jesus Christ by wise men that he raised up for that purpose, I think that it is the only government that could be the right government until he reigns.

With how wicked and nasty everything I see is lately, I do not see enough people that are moral and righteous enough to live it....

It is like in the bOM uniting with unrighteous only because you are united in your dislike for those that are destroying good government.

Good point, united in your dislike for those that are destroying good government. We can get involved on a local level but I am still wondering if pretty much all local governments have corruption as well. Still I am hoping that the people still have a voice IF they will unite and use it.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

It depends on where you live. At our county level we were able to do more. Once it went to the district and the state, the corruption was glaringly obvious. But, that is all the more reason to uproot all that you can, using the legal ways to do so. With parties, they really are only a club, so you have to use the court of public opinion to get changes to happen sometimes, but with committees and caucuses it is pure numbers, get enough numbers and you can change who is in control.

[Moses]

Democracy=Mob rule? Nonesense. Most good democracies, are based on sytems with safety built in.

The American system is a good one . yes? perhaps,okay, but the people aren't trusted to make real decisons. There is more potential here for dictatorship. This is the real potential for mob rule based on tyranny. The fewer people making the decisions the more opportunity for corruption and yes. mob rule.

The people need to be able to vote for their leaders and for policies they want to see in place. Americans seem to be disenfranchised. They seem to be have little say in their own future.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

That is because they are in apostasy from the U.S. Constitution. The power is unchecked and unbalanced, and power corrupts.

We are deeply entrenched in Socialism, then comes communism and then the dictatorship. That is exactly how the prophets have warned us it would be if we did not stand for liberty now, today. (that was what 40 years ago?)

I agree with President Monson:

Political machinations ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden, deprived of opportunity, and left with a feeling of failure.

We are surrounded by so much that is designed to divert our attention from those things which are virtuous and good and to tempt us with that which would cause us to be unworthy to exercise the priesthood we bear. I speak not just to the young men of the Aaronic Priesthood but to those of all ages. Temptations come in various forms throughout our lives.

My young friends, be strong. The philosophies of men surround us. The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance. Do not be deceived; behind that facade is heartache, unhappiness, and pain. You know what is right and what is wrong, and no disguise, however appealing, can change that.

“Nothing will bring greater joy and success than to live according to the teachings of the gospel. Be an example; be an influence for good. …

“Every one of us has been foreordained for some work as [God’s] chosen servant on whom he has seen fit to confer the priesthood and power to act in his name. Always remember that people are looking to you for leadership and you are influencing the lives of individuals either for good or for bad, which influence will be felt for generations to come.”1

And Mark E. Peterson

“Only religion can prevent democratic rule from developing into mob rule. It behooves us then to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.” It was George Washington, our first president, who said: “… we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.

[ldsff]

Democracy is the road to socialism.

KARL MARX

[ldsff]

Communism in practice is socialism.

A Vision and a Hope for the Youth of Zion by EZRA TAFT BENSON

[Moses]

Gordon B. Hinckley

We pray for the great democracies of the earth which Thou hast overseen in creating their governments, where peace and liberty and democratic processes obtain.

[Moses]

In a democracy we can renounce war and proclaim peace

Gordon B. Hinckley

[Moses]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, however, is neither a democracy nor a republic

Russell M. Nelson

Joseph B. Wirthlin

After a long journey across the Atlantic Ocean, which was hazardous at that time because of the war, I rejoiced when I saw that wonderful beacon of freedom and democracy, the Statue of Liberty

Cheryll Lynn May

To answer these questions, we must review the range of rights and duties generally associated with the idea of citizenship in a democracy. In a democracy, questions relating to one’s civic involvement, like those relating to religious commitments, economic philosophy, or cultural preferences, are theoretically determined by the individual rather than by the state.

Ensign > June 1976

News of the Church

Family members recounted how one of their most thrilling moments was attending the meeting two years ago when President Gordon B. Hinckley spoke in New Delhi. “The people of India are beautiful and vigorous,” Elder Oaks continued. “They enjoy a working democracy and are thriving economically

.

James R. Moss

Mosiah’s reasons for advancing the cause of democracy also provide a charter under which the chief judges functioned. And when the Gadianton chief Giddianhi tried to win Lachoneus over to another form of monarchy with subtle bribery, threats, and a web of half-truths, that great judge rallied his people swiftly to preserve the rule of law in their democracy.

Ensign September 1977

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

Yes, the United States is a Constitutional Republic, with LIMITED democracy. Because it is designed as a Republic, law rules, and democracy is limited.

When the Republic is ignored, and democracy rules, it leads to mob rule without religion/morality etc.

[Moses]

Marvin K. Gardner

In 1989, Hungary became a democracy. It is still a major industrial center—but now, with the birth of democracy, there is an atmosphere of hope.

Gospel Library Liahona April 1995

Rosemary G. Palmer

There was no democracy or freedom. Because the people of Kiev are learning about the gospel and about democracy, their lives are changing.

Friend June 1994

Ardeth G. Kapp

I asked this sister how she manages to be so influential. “You have to know parliamentary procedure in public meetings,” she replied. “If you do, you can safeguard democracy and your home by using the rules effectively.” “

1775–83

The Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution established a new nation dedicated to freedom and democracy (see 1 Ne. 13:17–19).

N. Eldon Tanner

The president of this organization, Dr. David Hyatt, has stated: “Brotherhood—the respect for the dignity and worth of another human being—must become a part of our conscious activities, not just philosophical rhetoric or afterthought. … “Brotherhood is democracy at work!

Mark L. Grover

It was not easy to introduce the Church to a nation going through the traumatic transition from dictatorship to democracy

May the incomparable principle of democracy be preserved forever in this republic. “We remember before Thee the sons and daughters of Father Lehi.

Ensign July 2000

N. Eldon Tanner

I wish to join wholeheartedly with the millions of people who appreciate this country in which we live and are determined to do what they can to maintain and strengthen the principles of democracy established by our Founding Fathers.

His “Vision of the Redemption of the Dead,” received October 3, 1918, was added to the Pearl of Great Price at the April 1976 general conference of the Church. “No man was more expressive of true love, broad democracy, and pure religion than was he.” (Levi Edgar Young, “President Joseph F. Smith,” p. 3.)

[Moses]

When the Republic is ignored, and democracy rules, it leads to mob rule without religion/morality etc

Religious freedom exists in most democracies. The church is thriving in them. Mob rule is not to be found.

America has good and evil , just like any nation. and it will be that way until Christ comes again. I dont understand the insertion of having to have the republic as an essential for Jesus Christ to come again. All governments are telestial and temporary and have to do their best with what they have.I trust the masses to elect their own government. Its their right.

[ldsff]

I believe our government is corrupt, and that society is evil. It is more right in society's and government's view today to approve of transexuals than transfat. Whatever form of government we have today, I do not want it. I am looking forward when the Kingdom of Christ is established. I have a feeling it will in no sense be an actual government as they have existed on Earth and operated by mortals. I am sure the Kingdom of Christ is to be the diametrically functional opposite of any government which has ever existed on Earth before.

[Moses]

The United States form of government is(was) democratic republic

President Hinckley was talking about Democracy Outside of the USA In his comments about God overseening their creation.

I dont feel that grammar has much to do with it. Democracy has had many positive comments of late from the First Presidency.

Note here please that here that people like me go to pains to explain that all socialism is not the same. And in reply we are told that democacy, Socialism and Communism are the same. Period. Yet when we have the General Authorities saying that democracy is good, Suddenly its okay to alter the definition to suit the agenda.saying oh well theres different kinds of Democracy.

The people have the right to vote for their own representives. Republican democracy is nearer to communism than classical democracy. as the people are told and not asked,or, in other words, they are forced to have the representives they are given by those who supposedly know better (but don't). I thought force was wrong, no? Or is force acceptable, if that force is used to compel people to accept the particular view that one is promoting?

[ldsff]

Democracy is the road to socialism.

KARL MARX

The wish for socialism is a wish for unparalleled human evil.
~ Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr

[ldsff]

"A democratic despotism is like a theocracy: it assumes its own correctness."
~ Walter Bagehot

[Moses]

“Chicago is the product of modern capitalism, and, like other great commercial centers, is unfit for human habitation.”

Dont know the author

Capitalism has destroyed our belief in any effective power but that of self interest backed by force.”
George Bernard Shaw quotes

“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.”
John Maynard Keynes quotes

[shadow]

Have you been to Chicago? I have. Lot's of humans habitate there and quite enjoy it.
I'm shadow and I approve this message.

[Moses]

Have you been to Chicago? I have. Lot's of humans habitate there and quite enjoy it.
I'm shadow and I approve this message

Im sure they do enjoy it, and this goes to show that quotations while they all sound profound are to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

Quotations often embarrass the person who is quoted. often we hear " I didnt mean it in that way" etc.

I have seenquotes and counter quotes of equal weight on most subjects. Including democracy,socialism,Theocracy , republicanism and the constitution.

As Paul said.

Nothing is unclean of itself, only to him that esteemeth it to be so

.

[jnjnelson]

As Paul said.

Nothing is unclean of itself, only to him that esteemeth it to be so

I love that scripture. I especially love when the verse before it is quoted with it:

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

Gordon B. Hinckley

We pray for the great democracies of the earth which Thou hast overseen in creating their governments, where peace and liberty and democratic processes obtain.

I would pray for them too.

[Moses]

I would pray for them too. Good for you LC.

But my point was that God inspired their creation. just the same as the USA. what I have been trying to say is God inspires all nations who pray to him. To the American its the constitution to the Brits its the constitution albeit unwritten. It mainly what you cling to what helps you to obey God. However the Scriptures or in particular the Bible and Bom are our road map.