Your home for discussing politics, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the principles of liberty.
Yes, I agree.BrianM wrote:yes, the poll needed an option like that.ajax wrote:I am for the full dismantling of the welfare/warfare state, thus making immigration a non-issue.
I am not for citizenship. I am a free man on the land. I know who I am. I do not understand, yet I try to lift others up.SmallFarm wrote:Rights come from God not from citizenship papers. We should honor any persons right to come here and work, regardless of citizenship status. Furthermore, I don't believe in a test for citizenship, state an oath in front of witnesses and you are an American citizen.
So my question now is, after this miscarriage of vital information that was withheld from us in this case by the media, was the recent shooting of the two deputy sheriffs in Utah by one Jose Angel Garcia-Juaregui an illegal alien also?sevenator wrote:Link to the story I provided was furnished by a man claiming to be the uncle of the 3 year-old in a post on another (non-religion based) forum that I frequent. I do not know if he is the mother or father's sibling.
From his post:
Exercise your own judgement, but you don't really think anyone in the media would report that the man was illegal, do you?Our family needs prayers during this difficult time. His older brother was sitting right next to him during the accident and his last memory of his little brother will be of him dying at the scene. The driver was an uninsured illegal from mexico...The driver tried to walk away but was luckily detained by the good folks that stopped to help.
So let's bring the President of Mexico up here and let him run the country. Is this what you're implying? How about a potential terrorist or a drug Cartel?SmallFarm wrote:Rights come from God not from citizenship papers. We should honor any persons right to come here and work, regardless of citizenship status. Furthermore, I don't believe in a test for citizenship, state an oath in front of witnesses and you are an American citizen.
I wish people would learn to think outside the box. Thanks, Lundbaek, for your knowledge.lundbaek wrote:Those who think righteousness and charity include allowing for open immigration would do well to investigate for themselves the people and the motives behind the fomenting of illegal immigration. And those who think that God-given rights include the right to freely come into and live and work in the United States would do well to learn what God wanted America to become and how many immigrants have detracted from that goal.
Great insight, thanks!lundbaek wrote:Perhaps some of you do not recall when the Church advised members in other countries to not immigrate to the United States, but to stay ("bloom where you were planted") and help build up the Church in those countries. Having lived and worked about 11 years in various European countries I can attest to a noticeable lack of priesthood and strong families in those countries due to emigration to America. Then of course there was the Church statement published 10 June 2011 which one can read at http://newsroom.lds.org/article/immigra ... -statement" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which includes the statement "As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its member from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas."
Something more one might consider. According to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would be established forever. That appears to have been the wish. Interesting it is that those statements were given specifically to Latter-day Saints. But instead of the precepts of the US Constitution being emulated in other countries, Americans are increasingly espousing and adopting tyrannical ideologies of other nations. One of my fears for America is that most immigrants, including many LDS immigrants coming into the United States now bring with them political persuasions that are destructive to our constitutional republic.
Well I'm not a supporter of amnesty. I'm against that idea. Amnesty could be as harmful for our economy as a complete deportation could be. Now when I mentioned the Constitution and our nation now living under an unconstitutional system, I assumed everyone would understand that I meant the Constitution in the language of our Founding Fathers. I apologize for assuming too much. Now if you read the Constitution carefully, it does not permit nor prohibit an open border. The Constitution was not intended to lay out the nation's immigration policy. It only lays out that the Federal Government has the power to make laws regarding immigration and naturalization. Obviously our elected leaders (and the ones that were supposed to be elected by our State legislatures) can write immigration laws however they see fit, according to the Constitution.lundbaek wrote:" Abide by the Constitution! That is the real solution." says abelchirino. Abide by which constitution ? The original Constitution ? The constitution as amended in accordance with Article V ? Or the constitution as it has been changed in the minds of many by the "informal amendment process" including "presidential actions, Supreme Court decisions, activities of political parties, and custom", as stated in, of all places, the BSA Citizenship In The Nation" merit badge handbook ? I have yet to encounter a serious and reasonably well educated supporter of amnesty and open borders who does not claim that the US Constitution permits open border immigration and amnesty.
The following editorial was in my daily newspaper Sept. 15, 2015 that addresses lundbaek's concerns:lundbaek wrote:Well, here we are now just over a year and a half later, and just look at the current so-called "refugee" crisis that has been fomented.... by WHOM ? And for WHAT PURPOSE ? Of course we have to treat these new immigrants with kindness, compassion and civility. From my understanding and observations, Americans generally treated war prisoners with kindness, compassion and civility. Not always, but certainly much better than American POWs were often treated. They were treated as criminals by enemies of certain cultures. And, BTW, Britain and European countries are currently experiencing the same refugee crises. I only wish all Americans understood that this crisis has been fomented to help bring about great changes in America.
So true lundbaek, we were expected to be the leaven that would leaven the whole lump (world). Matt. 3:33. I'm wondering even in this late hour if it is still prophetically possible to still fill that role?lundbaek wrote:And to think that Mormons, had they been united in upholding the principles of the Constitution as it was meant to be understood and determined to suffer not that the murderous combinations get above us, could have led the charge in preventing this disaster.
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