Constitution Saved? HOW

[lundbaek]

Gary Allen wrote in NDCIC: "With 30 million "end runs" being made during 1972, you can, and will, rout the conspiracy, turn the tide of history and prevent the enslavement of yourself and your family. Remember, seeds planted in 1972 will pay off not only this year, but in 1974 and 1976. If we do not build a large counter-revolutionary base in 1972 the ball game will be lost by 1976."

Interesting that in 1972 Ezra Taft Benson wrote in a letter to H. Verlan Andersen : "My great concern is whether we have time enough through the legislative route and the great lack of support for sound principles to get the job done, because of the rate at which the subversive program is closing on on us." (MACBFAC, Pg. 83)

I assume this game is lost. Best we can do is prepare for the next game which I believe will not be played until after the "cleansing".

[sbsion]

agreed.............so, are you ready.......two years supply, water, food, clothing, priesthood power?

[lundbaek]

The preperation needs to include "two years supply, water, food, clothing, priesthood power" PLUS people prepared to establish, support and accept a government based on the principles of government that the Lord gave us.

There are those who believe that if we learn to live our lives in accord with the more often discussed principles of the gospel, especially the Golden Rule and the Beatitudes, that in so doing we will be prepared to establish, support and accept a government based on the principles of government that the Lord gave us. Perhaps in theory, but if that were true, why did Presidents McKay, Clark, Romney, Benson, and others spend so much time and effort trying to get us to learn and espouse the principles of government that the Lord gave us?

[freedomforall]

The preperation needs to include "two years supply, water, food, clothing, priesthood power" PLUS people prepared to establish, support and accept a government based on the principles of government that the Lord gave us.

There are those who believe that if we learn to live our lives in accord with the more often discussed principles of the gospel, especially the Golden Rule and the Beatitudes, that in so doing we will be prepared to establish, support and accept a government based on the principles of government that the Lord gave us. Perhaps in theory, but if that were true, why did Presidents McKay, Clark, Romney, Benson, and others spend so much time and effort trying to get us to learn and espouse the principles of government that the Lord gave us?

Growing up I was so ignorant. I had no idea there was so much communism related problems in this country. Thus, I didn't teach and warn my own children what they are faced with. It has been in the last year that I came to realize the danger before us. So now I have been reading various books and conveying thoughts and concerns to others, and my married children, in hopes there will be an increase of action-minded LDS and others in order to make a difference. And I believe by contacting our congressman and holding them to their constitutional obligations (because we are on to them when they make wrong choices) we can make a difference at some point. It is not after the cleansing, it is now...we can be pioneers in the forefront of the cleansing. We need to have the spunk that Moroni had; he thought it was hopeless to until he got made angry enough to do something about it. 20,000 people who say"I am only one person" is 20,000 potential influences in getting something done, no matter how insignificant we may think it is. It is only too late when everybody sits back and says to themselves, "Nothin' I can do about it. Oh, well" This kind of attitude will only bring the wrath of God on us, the members. Think about it, it is really God we are standing with when we defend what He gave us in the first place.

In the Book of Mormon we read the very same events as we are now dealing with:
Alma 46:10 Yea, we see that Amalickiah (Obama), because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words (like "change"), that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God (a non christian nation), and to destroy the foundation of liberty (the Constitution) which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

Gary Allen tells us, near the end, what we can do in his book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" He teaches us what it takes to expose and hinder the socialistic advances. What it is that they can't fight against, and it occurs through the congressional level! Reading this book (there is an online PDF source) will be in response to those brethren you mentioned above. He states in his book:

The Insiders are counting on your being too preoccupied with your own problems or too lazy to fight back while the chains of slavery are being fastened on you. They are counting on their mass media to con you, frighten you, or ridicule you out of saving your freedom, and, most of all, they are counting on your thinking you can escape by not taking part in opposing their takeover.

And another: Those who are complacent and hope to escape the terror because they were not involved in politics or resisted the New Order coming to power must be made, by you, to understand that this all-encompassing need for terror includes them especially… that they cannot escape by doing nothing.

Concerning our children he says: "There may be even a worse fate. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves."
WHAT WILL YOU DO? If you are unwilling to get involved because you feel it may be bad for business or may jeopardize your social respectability, just look into the eyes of your children and tell them that making a buck and climbing the social ladder are more important to you than they are.

Moroni fastened a piece of his coat on a pole with the words: In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children. Our "Title Of Liberty" is our "Flag" and Moroni's words apply.

Remember..."Ignorance on fire is greater than knowledge on ice"

We as individuals can "line upon line, precept upon precept" chip away at our congressman until they go stark raving mad. One way is to send them a copy of this book. Or to read the book and then hound them with concerns and directives.

[Moss Man]

We've never been told to stop doing missionary work (see President Monson's opening address at last conference and this month's Ensign) which is essentially giving a message of hope and freedom. That same message is contained within the U.S. Constitution. The idea that needs worked on is how to incorporate the two.

I am now changing my voter registration card from "not affiliated" to Constitution Party as an opening for the County Chair (my county) has emerged. When you get a call from someone asking if you'd like to become the chairperson of the Constitution Party, do you decline? I feel this is an opening for me, as given by heavenly inspiration, to organize my county around the principles of freedom. Oh, and I have the restored truth, restored priesthood and holy ghost as my constant companion (I need to make sure I'm keeping my covenants and the Commandments while repenting).

We need to be anxiously engaged in a good cause, which this is. I don't feel we should throw in the towel until and unless we receive inspiration to do so. Do our home teaching families know about this? Can Mutual times be devoted, now and then, to this cause? Can we get our local Scouting troops to an NCCS seminar?

Also, the principles of the Constitution should be shared with the rising generation and those that are impressionable. The older generation may be set in its ways.

[lundbaek]

Good show Moss Man, I am treaasurer of the Maricopa County (AZ) Constitution Party. We are pitifully few in number largely, I believe, because the Arizona Republican Assembly has drawn so many supporters of constitutional principles into their movement to fis the Republican Party from the inside. The CP does not have ballot access in AZ and I don't see it happening soon. I have tried in vain to persuade our stake presidency to get the Scouts into Constitution Celebration Week activities. But we are planning a fireside presented by a field instructor for the NCCS within our stake. Following is the invitation we sent out last week. Does this give anybody any ideas?


The Book of Mormon, The Constitution, and
YOU
You and your spouse are invited to attend a special fireside on The Book of Mormon, The Constitution, and You.
The presenter will be Rick Dalton, Field Instructor for the National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS), member of the bishopric of the Kleinman Park Ward in Mesa, and a History/Economics instructor at Heritage Academy in Mesa.

Come and learn about the commandments of the Lord and His Prophets, to members of the Church about Freedom, politics, civic affairs, and about the inspired U.S. Constitution.

When: Sunday, 13 February 2010 (7pm to 9pm)

Where: Home of Ralph and Grethe Hughes: 667 W. Laguna Azul, Mesa AZ 85210

Seating is limited, so please RSVP to: 480-497-1271 so we know how many to plan for.

[Darren]

The word Company is Latin based. Pan is bread, Co and comp is found in companions, come together.

What the word company means is the people who come together to take the bread. The sacrament in sacrament meeting.

The constitution is saved once we organize into Anglo Saxon and Jute companies.

We already have the Church side taken care of, we just need to show the world that we can do business that way too.

The organization of the Church begun at Upsala Sweden, sometime before 42 A.D., was the beginning of common law. The traditional Israelite Organizations of 10s 50s 100s, 1000s and Lands is the way to stay organized by law. Government is Greek for a system that is top down run. Law is Germanic for a system that is bottom up, elected and run.

Thomas Jefferson gave us the best Township Enabling Acts, modeled after this ancient system.

We don't have to decapitate the bad guys to save the constitution, we just need to organize at home according to the plan that has always been there.

God Bless,
Darren

[Moss Man]

The word Company is Latin based. Pan is bread, Co and comp is found in companions, come together.

What the word company means is the people who come together to take the bread. The sacrament in sacrament meeting.

The constitution is saved once we organize into Anglo Saxon and Jute companies.

We already have the Church side taken care of, we just need to show the world that we can do business that way too.

The organization of the Church begun at Upsala Sweden, sometime before 42 A.D., was the beginning of common law. The traditional Israelite Organizations of 10s 50s 100s, 1000s and Lands is the way to stay organized by law. Government is Greek for a system that is top down run. Law is Germanic for a system that is bottom up, elected and run.

Thomas Jefferson gave us the best Township Enabling Acts, modeled after this ancient system.

We don't have to decapitate the bad guys to save the constitution, we just need to organize at home according to the plan that has always been there.

God Bless,
Darren

I haven't had time to read through all of your material but can you elaborate on the business side? Do you mean business as in commerce?
Also, wouldn't we need to teach others the concept of organizing at home? Can this be done under or within a political party affiliation?

[Darren]

The ancestral way to work together, is as so many Germanic people have always worked together, i.e. the City of London, and Puritan New England. Is to work together by "the Oaths of the Freemen" (Basically our Temple Endowment Oaths in operation in our business lives) facilitated by the way those Oaths are marketed and commercialized, in the culture of their ancestral Free Enterprise System.

It is organization, it is structure, and it does not depend on the top-down controls of Emperors, politician lackeys and their Scientific Bureaucracy.

Saving our constitution is being too well organized, to need the services of the Empire. And that saving organization is well documented in the works I have been sharing on this forum - the foundational information to the Freeman Institute begun by Cleon Skousen and his friends.

What if we took a message across the country to continue doing what we do best but in the environment of the "force yourself to be good" way our Townships and Counties were always set up to operate by.

as their Good Life and Orderly Conversation may win and invite the Natives of the Country to the knowledge and obedience of the only true God and Savior of Mankind and the Christian Faith which, in our royal intentions and the Adventurers' free profession, is the ONLY and principal END of this Plantation. Charter of Connecticut, 1662

D&C 86:11. Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood a savior unto my people Israel. The Lord hath said it. Amen.

The message is big, as in the late 80s there was the "Township Movement," that included some folks who wanted to use force to kick the government out of their communities by trying to be independent Townships. These were very drastic methods these folks used. And lead to many marginalized people being shot by government stormtroopers.

The message is big, but needs to be done in the spirit of saving the constitution, and bettering our existing communities, not fighting the IRS Gestapo.

As the Cleansing comes upon us, folks will be asking if there is some way to hold together their lives, and livelihoods. And we need to have the equivalent of how we organize in our Church for our business organizations. If that is in place, and money fails, just like Germany of 1923 we will have spared ourselves the troubles that the Empire is preparing for us.

Also, wouldn't we need to teach others the concept of organizing at home? Can this be done under or within a political party affiliation?

Political Parties were invented to be equivalent to religious affiliation. The only party that saving the constitution needs is the party of those who want to work together by the goodness of the law and our constitution, that is the basis of our US Constitution. The party is God's people.

Whereas we all came into these parts of America with one and the same end and aim, namely, to advance the Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ and to enjoy the liberties of the Gospel in purity with peace; ... The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual League of the United Colonies of New England, May 19, 1643

The basis of our Law of our lands are the Religious Opinions of Juries. The basis of the Constitution is the Religious Opinions recorded in Common Law by those Juries. And Common Law is from Deuteronomy's organizations doing what they do best as organized companies of 10s 50s 100s 1000s and Lands operated by choosing from among ourselves, our companies, our own leaders, and by living the law of our organization's common law, religious opinions.

The Liberties of Englishmen rested not upon any enactment of the State, but upon immemorial, slow-growing Custom, declared by Juries of Free Men, as they gave their Verdicts Case by Case in Open Court. Winston Churchill, A History of the English-speaking Peoples, 1953

Political Parties are an Empire spawned, humanist structured, organizational method, similar to and a substitution for Common Law, Elected Leaders. The Hanseatic League operated like we do, they elected their leaders from the many townships and counties across the Germanic Lands, but without political parties, their party was the way each land's elected leaders represented their people in the Hansa Parliment.

Deuteronomy 1:13 Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.

We don't need to decapitate corrupt Bankster sponsored leaders, what we need to do is to have us and them live by our Oaths. Then our Constitution is saved by the ancestral constitution culture rules.

God Bless,
Darren

[freedomforall]

The nation that up holds secret combinations will be destroyed. At this point , the prospects for Liberty look slim . Since 9/11 The Gadiantons have been tightening their grip. Political, economic and military power is in their control. Increasingly , Patriots are being silenced. Most Americans dont realize the war is being fought. There are statements to the effect that the constitution could be saved. It was established by great sacrifice and by divine inspiration. It remains to be seen if Liberty will be reenshrined as the law of the land.. If so How and when?

I feel that even though there are Americans that are either apathetic to our circumstances or they're not informed as to their severity have no reason to have reassurance in any effort to bring about good and proper change in government. I also feel that those who step up to the plate and actively do something...however and seemingly minute..can feel good about themselves, as I feel God would feel toward them...when their efforts seem unnoticed or negated because of such apathy shown by either those in office, or someone they know. God knows our intentions, our successes and failures. And if Moroni were here, would he advise us to be prepared for more than just talk when the fan gets splattered? Under socialistic rule...every regular citizen would be rendered helpless, because it presents a hinderence to their cause if we were to be armed.

[lundbaek]

Please understand that this is not my opinion, but I encounter members, including those in leadership positions, who believe that now is not the time to be addressing the issues of secret combinations and the Constitution and its preservation or restoration, but instead to focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity. Some of these members believe that when “the time is right” for constitutional principles to be restored to government (my words) they will be spiritually prepared enough to follow the guidance of the Spirit as well as any forthcoming direction of the Church leadership in doing whatever tasks they are assigned to help restore the government the Lord wants us to have. Some of them view people like us as spinning our wheels and detracting from the more important objectives of the Church.

My own focus in shifting from trying to awaken adult or older members to our civic responsibilities to finding ways to bring these commandments and responsibilities to the attention of younger members, including teenagers. The odds are much better that they will be around when “the time is right”, whereas most of us folks will be on the other side of the veil.

[freedomforall]

I don't recall the reference but it was stated that we may never get directives from the church because it could divide it usunder.

Someone here may have the link to this topic.

[Jason]

Please understand that this is not my opinion, but I encounter members, including those in leadership positions, who believe that now is not the time to be addressing the issues of secret combinations and the Constitution and its preservation or restoration, but instead to focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity. Some of these members believe that when “the time is right” for constitutional principles to be restored to government (my words) they will be spiritually prepared enough to follow the guidance of the Spirit as well as any forthcoming direction of the Church leadership in doing whatever tasks they are assigned to help restore the government the Lord wants us to have. Some of them view people like us as spinning our wheels and detracting from the more important objectives of the Church.

My own focus in shifting from trying to awaken adult or older members to our civic responsibilities to finding ways to bring these commandments and responsibilities to the attention of younger members, including teenagers. The odds are much better that they will be around when “the time is right”, whereas most of us folks will be on the other side of the veil.

....ever consider the thought that they could be right?

[lundbaek]

I have considered the possibility that members, including those in leadership positions, who believe that now is not the time to be addressing the issues of secret combinations and the Constitution and its preservation or restoration, but instead to focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity, could be right. But if they are right, why would President Packer have said in a public statement that “To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us. I invoke the blessing on you who are doing this sacred work that you will keep it up, and that in due time the challenges that we face now from within can be conquered so that this nation may remain free.”? Why would he have stated on 2 different occasions, once at BYU in 2007 and again in the August Ensign magazine, “We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you." [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

I am pretty well convinced that this is something the Lord does not want the whole Church involved in at this time, as opposed to the case some decades ago. I sometimes wish the Prophet would tell us to knock it off. Yet I and many others still feel driven to keep the fires burning.

[freedomforall]

Please understand that this is not my opinion, but I encounter members, including those in leadership positions, who believe that now is not the time to be addressing the issues of secret combinations and the Constitution and its preservation or restoration, but instead to focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity. Some of these members believe that when “the time is right” for constitutional principles to be restored to government (my words) they will be spiritually prepared enough to follow the guidance of the Spirit as well as any forthcoming direction of the Church leadership in doing whatever tasks they are assigned to help restore the government the Lord wants us to have. Some of them view people like us as spinning our wheels and detracting from the more important objectives of the Church.

My own focus in shifting from trying to awaken adult or older members to our civic responsibilities to finding ways to bring these commandments and responsibilities to the attention of younger members, including teenagers. The odds are much better that they will be around when “the time is right”, whereas most of us folks will be on the other side of the veil.

....ever consider the thought that they could be right?

Nope. And here's why...it would cloud and deminish the words given us by several Prophets and other General authorities in the past.

As far as I'm concerned, it can't be both ways, do or don't. President Benson wrote about socialism, warned us about socialism and admonished the Saints to wake up and take action against it. This is good enough for me. I woke up about one year ago, in my sixties. You can decide for yourself, thank you.

Either this, or, one or the other sources are is not telling the truth. One generation can't say "watch out" and then the next generation claim "all is well".

[Moss Man]

Does or does not maintaining the principles in the Constitution fall under our stewardships as Americans?

Some of these members believe that when “the time is right” for constitutional principles to be restored to government (my words) they will be spiritually prepared enough to follow the guidance of the Spirit

The inherent problem with this statement is that it implies the principles are lost which means we are in trouble. Who needs to take direction on whether or not to leave a burning building?

focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity

These leaders and members might be missing the point that this nation's being free is what allows them to focus on these things. These things could've only started in a free nation and that nation's freedoms are being re-examined to formulate a remedy.

What's at stake here is our ability to act and not be acted upon. In other words, be proactive! I'd welcome the day when our prophet scolds us for neglecting missionary work because we are so busy preaching freedom and the Constitution.

Each home teaching visit can include the First Presidency message and an invitation to study the Constitution. Of course, you have to follow spiritual promptings for your families' needs.

Can we use the Constitution to find those ready to hear the gospel? The restored gospel becomes a natural product of this conversation because we can talk about Christian principles and how this nation was set aside for the restoration (or whatever you are prompted to talk about).

[Jason]

I have considered the possibility that members, including those in leadership positions, who believe that now is not the time to be addressing the issues of secret combinations and the Constitution and its preservation or restoration, but instead to focus on missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity, could be right. But if they are right, why would President Packer have said in a public statement that “To honor the Constitution and to honor freedom is a sacred duty for all of us. I invoke the blessing on you who are doing this sacred work that you will keep it up, and that in due time the challenges that we face now from within can be conquered so that this nation may remain free.”? Why would he have stated on 2 different occasions, once at BYU in 2007 and again in the August Ensign magazine, “We live in a time of war, that spiritual war that will never end. Moroni warned us that the secret combinations begun by Gadianton ‘are had among all people. . . . Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you. . . . Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you." [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

I am pretty well convinced that this is something the Lord does not want the whole Church involved in at this time, as opposed to the case some decades ago. I sometimes wish the Prophet would tell us to knock it off. Yet I and many others still feel driven to keep the fires burning.

I agree wholeheartedly....though at times (myself) there has been a tendency to want to lift others to where I stand when perhaps I should be looking to them for a lift.

For example my bishop who is upset with himself if he hasn't shoveled snow off the sidewalks for at least 7 of his neighbors before having to take off an attend his meetings....which means he should have gotten out of bed a half hour or hour earlier than his 5:30 or 6 am.

Or the Stake President down the street in Midvale that made sure he got the trash cans hauled out and in every week for the widow across the street (and who knows how many others).

Neither of whom, to my understanding, know much about conspiracy or are actively involved in the politics....

[Moss Man]

For example my bishop who is upset with himself if he hasn't shoveled snow off the sidewalks for at least 7 of his neighbors before having to take off an attend his meetings....which means he should have gotten out of bed a half hour or hour earlier than his 5:30 or 6 am.

Or the Stake President down the street in Midvale that made sure he got the trash cans hauled out and in every week for the widow across the street (and who knows how many others).

I scoff at the idea that someone who is concerned about saving the Constitution cannot go about it while performing small acts of kindness for others. We just have to make sure we are balanced in our efforts.

Here's what I'll do: on my way to tonight's 9/12 Project meeting, after visiting my final home teaching family for the month, I'll haul my neighbor's empty trash cans back to his garage.

[lundbaek]

How do (all of) you feel about the idea of working in some time to study the principles of the U.S. Constitution, involving oneself in activities to preserve/restore it, and learn about and oppose what the secret combinations are doing to us, in between missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity ?

[Jason]

For example my bishop who is upset with himself if he hasn't shoveled snow off the sidewalks for at least 7 of his neighbors before having to take off an attend his meetings....which means he should have gotten out of bed a half hour or hour earlier than his 5:30 or 6 am.

Or the Stake President down the street in Midvale that made sure he got the trash cans hauled out and in every week for the widow across the street (and who knows how many others).

I scoff at the idea that someone who is concerned about saving the Constitution cannot go about it while performing small acts of kindness for others. We just have to make sure we are balanced in our efforts.

Here's what I'll do: on my way to tonight's 9/12 Project meeting, after visiting my final home teaching family for the month, I'll haul my neighbor's empty trash cans back to his garage.

Sure...I understand your point. That said, the Constitution is nearly dead....and is basically null and void with a majority that choose wickedness...which is what we have. So in terms of priorities....causing a change of heart is #1 and foremost tool.

Doesn't take an education in conspiracy to cause a change of heart.....and that's coming from someone who's spent a substantial amount of time learning about conspiracies.

So these good people that may not be the most active and passionate about the Constitution right now....can still play a major role in its salvation AFTER the cleansing. Up until that point.....perhaps I'm off base....but I don't see a difference being made outside of each person deciding where they stand on the issues....and holding to that line no matter what tests may come. In other words finding out what we are made of....or the test of Abraham.

[Jason]

How do (all of) you feel about the idea of working in some time to study the principles of the U.S. Constitution, involving oneself in activities to preserve/restore it, and learn about and oppose what the secret combinations are doing to us, in between missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity ?

....depends. In terms of generalities it sounds great but what are the specific steps? We live the principles of the Constitution or experience the lack there of on a daily basis. In terms of preserving or restoring....how do you preserve or restore Natural Law? You don't....you can ignore it to your peril...but it doesn't go away. The Constitution is basically an instrument that is in alignment with natural law....albeit imperfectly (especially some of the later amendments).

Same goes for opposing secret combinations....each of us is in a different situation...but what are you going to do? Outside of voting and political involvement (which is decided by the majority)....what are you going to do? Revolution? Quit paying taxes? Protest fast? If they pass a law tomorrow - against your protest - taking away your right to bear arms...what are you going to do? Will those actions strengthen the other efforts you mention (missionary work, reactivation, family history, visiting and home teaching,.temple readiness, temple attendance, and charity) or take away from those efforts? Where's the priority?

I propose that until the land is cleansed that priority #1 is missionary work - the effort to create a change of heart. And until the land is cleansed efforts in the political/liberty arena are constrained by the wickedness of the majority. Until a structure is established where the voice of a righteous people is truly heard.....and the crutches of society (dams) are washed away due to the refusal to allow water to run downhill (natural law)....then we are living in a constrained position that limits our choices due to rule by a wicked majority. You cannot remove the tares without the wheat (most especially using the arm of the flesh) until it is time for the harvest.

[lundbaek]

The Constitution is dead, for most practical purposes. The secret combinations have gotten above us. Efforts in the political/liberty arena are constrained by the wickedness of the majority and the ignorance and/or apathy of most of the righteous minority. So is it even worth the bother to try to awaken some of the righteous minority, especially Latter-day Saints, to our responsibilities Re. constitutional principles and secret combinations? Yes, it is! Following the cleansing the remnant will need to understand and espouse the principles of government that the Lord gave us. I assume some of that remnant are in our midst now, as young adults and teenagers at least. My guess is that most LDSs in those age groups, who because of their basic righteousness, will be among the survivours of the cleansing, are still unaware of the responsibilities they will have to restore government as the Lord would have it. The efforts of many of us in this fight are directed primarily toward educating that remnant. And we are having success. So yes it is worth the bother.

[Jason]

The Constitution is dead, for most practical purposes. The secret combinations have gotten above us. Efforts in the political/liberty arena are constrained by the wickedness of the majority and the ignorance and/or apathy of most of the righteous minority. So is it even worth the bother to try to awaken some of the righteous minority, especially Latter-day Saints, to our responsibilities Re. constitutional principles and secret combinations? Yes, it is! Following the cleansing the remnant will need to understand and espouse the principles of government that the Lord gave us. I assume some of that remnant are in our midst now, as young adults and teenagers at least. My guess is that most LDSs in those age groups, who because of their basic righteousness, will be among the survivours of the cleansing, are still unaware of the responsibilities they will have to restore government as the Lord would have it. The efforts of many of us in this fight are directed primarily toward educating that remnant. And we are having success. So yes it is worth the bother.

Not saying it isn't worth the bother to teach correct principles....just saying that's about the last option left until constraints are removed. I could be wrong but imagine some great lessons are about to be taught pretty rapidly and the establishment of a proper structure (Moses - law of judges) will resolve a whole lot of problems!

[lundbaek]

I can think of only 2 ways to teach correct principles. Lecture and example. The lecture method only works on people who already have the desire to learn, preferably a burning desire. At the present, we are having a hard time getting people interested in attending a fireside “The Book of Mormon, the Constitution, and You” The only time I’ve been able to lecture on the subject was in a sacrament meeting when I was permitted to choose my topic. And I have squeezed in a few words on the subject in the occasional testimony meeting. But by participating in the political arena in various ways, including running for elected office on a platform based on constitutional principles, I have awakened a lot of people to varying degrees to our civic responsibilities. Overall, my results are nothing to rave about, but they have been better than I did as a missionary trying to bring people to Christ.

[Jason]

I can think of only 2 ways to teach correct principles. Lecture and example. The lecture method only works on people who already have the desire to learn, preferably a burning desire. At the present, we are having a hard time getting people interested in attending a fireside “The Book of Mormon, the Constitution, and You” The only time I’ve been able to lecture on the subject was in a sacrament meeting when I was permitted to choose my topic. And I have squeezed in a few words on the subject in the occasional testimony meeting. But by participating in the political arena in various ways, including running for elected office on a platform based on constitutional principles, I have awakened a lot of people to varying degrees to our civic responsibilities. Overall, my results are nothing to rave about, but they have been better than I did as a missionary trying to bring people to Christ.

True...and as people become teachable or destroyed....someone needs to be right there setting example and teaching. But as you point out...they must be teachable. Lord is starting to preach some sermons....is what I'm getting at. Perhaps within a year you'll have a bigger audience than you could ever hope for!!!

Current system has to go up in flames first...