Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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LoveIsTruth
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Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

  • Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden.

    Since no individual can rightfully force his neighbor to transact or not to transact in certain medium of exchange, he cannot delegate such authority to his government. Also, free competition in currencies, by the force of Free Market, prevents the government from plundering the people through legalized counterfeiting and debasing of the currency.

    Therefore: the government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that the people are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent operation of private currencies, mints, or free competition in currencies among private citizens, nor charge capital gain, sales, or any other taxes, duties or fees on the medium of exchange. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.

Brief explanation of the benefits of this amendment:
  • Fiat (unbacked) "money" is the single greatest instrument of plunder ever invented by the mind of man.
    Free Competition in currencies kills fiat
    , because fiat cannot exist without aggressive violence of government forced monopoly, which aggressive violence is the definition of evil, and is the opposite of justice and of Free Market.

    Again, fiat (unbacked) currency is nothing but an instrument of plunder of the people by the government, via legalized counterfeiting and inflation; therefore, Free Market, absent government coercion, will reject such a fraudulent currency, for the simple reason that no one likes being plundered!

    So, Free Competition in currencies slays fiat, and with it welfare state and warfare state, because it makes it impossible for the government to rob and plunder the people, and steal their wealth through legalized counterfeiting and inflation.

    Thus, Free Competition in currencies binds the government down with the chains of sound money, making impossible government plunder via legalized counterfeiting, and therefore, making possible liberty and prosperity of the people.
Explanation:

Money rules the world, and he who rules the money rules the world. No law gives government more power than legal tender law, for it creates a government forced monopoly on counterfeiting; allowing politicians and the bankers who bought them to confiscate people's property through the most insidious and deceitful tax of all -- counterfeiting and inflation.

This one amendment, if implemented, would end government fiat, because it cannot exist without coercion. And government fiat will be rejected in a free market of currencies in favor of a more honest and stable one, such as a 100% commodity based, interest free currency. As the result it would effectively end war-state and welfare state, for it would make it IMPOSSIBLE for the government to fund all these unconstitutional ventures through the evil and insidious robbery known as legalized counterfeiting and inflation.

This amendment does not force anyone to do anything, but on the contrary, frees people up, to allow competition in currencies, so the good money can crowd out the bad. Imagine, for instance, gold or silver money, competing side by side with Federal Reserve Notes. People will soon notice that the purchasing power of their gold money is constantly increasing, while the purchasing power of unbacked paper money is constantly going down. It will have the appearance of prices going up when expressed in Federal Reserve Notes, and at the same time the prices on the same items expressed in gold or silver money going down! Which money do you think people will prefer to get paid in? That money which preserves and increases their purchasing power of course! When this happens people will begin rejecting Federal Reserve Notes in favor of a more sound 100% commodity based currency! Thus once government force is removed from the realm of money and free competition in currencies is allowed, fiat debt based money will end, because they will be rejected by the free market! You do not need legal tender laws to force people to accept good and honest money, but only bad and dishonest ones. The dirty little secret is that you only need legal tender laws if you are going into government forced counterfeiting business. That is the only reason for such laws.

The problems in our monetary system were created by introduction of improper government force into the realm of money, creating a government forced counterfeiting monopoly known as fiat; therefore the solution is to remove that improper government force, which would kill fiat, and allow Free Competition in Currencies, which will result in establishing of the most stable and honest monetary system known to man by the force of Free Market (most likely 100% commodity based monetary system like gold or silver), because no one likes being plundered.

Money is just another product that is used as a medium of exchange. And free market can perfect that product just as much as it can perfect a car, an iPod or a light bulb, much better than the government ever can. And if people are truly free, they should be able to choose any medium of exchange they wish, as long as they commit no fraud.

To criticism that it would produce chaos:

Any manner of chaos is better than the forced, orderly plunder and confiscation of people's property through paper money inflation, that is the only alternative to this amendment. Of course, if gold and silver were the only tender used by the government (as Constitution demands) this problem would be largely alleviated, but the problem I see is that the government could (unconstitutionally) make government issued paper receipts for gold or silver to be legal tender, and then inflate the receipts. (This has actually happened in the early 1900's.) If a private bank did this and there was a run on the bank it would go bankrupt, but in case of government they will put taxpayers on the hook for this. (Hence was Roosevelt's forced confiscation of people's gold in 1930's to remedy such a run on banks, so people could not demand their gold anymore.) So it's better explicitly put government out of legal tender business all together. The free market can decide perfectly well what the medium of exchange should be.

To criticism that these provisions are already implied in the existing Constitution, we say true, (the authority to establish a legal tender,--an exclusive monopoly on the means of exchange,--is not granted in the Constitution, therefore it is denied under the 10th Amendment), but it was already subverted and ignored by the Congress for over a century, so we are adding stronger language in the form of an explicit amendment, so that the Congress may not easily subvert and overturn it again. It's all about persuasion in the end: the more clear, persuasive and explicit the law is, the more likely the people will uphold and obey it to preserve their liberty (the need amply demonstrated by the last 100 years).

Plus, allowing free competition in currencies is the most harmonious and the least disruptive way to restore an honest and sound monetary system. Let free market decide, or in other words, let the people decide. And then the most efficient and most stable monetary system will naturally emerge, which historically always has been gold and silver. Freedom and prosperity will win out in the end.

If these six words, "legal tender laws are strictly forbidden" were part of the Constitution, we would've had a very different country now!

Remember: "Government forced Paper" = Tyranny; Gold + Silver + Righteousness = Liberty.

This is the key of power right here. Paper money fraud is what empowers the government to step out of its Constitutional bounds and become a tyrant through counterfeiting and theft; and Gold makes all this for the government impossible, and binds this fraud down, keeping people free and prosperous.

The best way to restore such honest and stable, 100% commodity based monetary system, is to allow free competition in currencies which is the goal of this amendment.

Again:
  • Paper = Tyranny;
    Gold + Silver + Righteousness = freedom!
The choice is yours!

=============================
This amendment is part of 7. Please see here: The Fundamental Principles of Liberty
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on May 11th, 2014, 5:33 pm, edited 42 times in total.

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ithink
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by ithink »

This is garbage. Most newbies to the theory of money think that gold will save us. Others like Ron Paul and Alex Jones live in a box.

Folks, the international bankers refused to let gold go during the run up to the great depression, and a return to gold would accelerate the plunge of the world economy by some factor as it did in the 20's.

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kathyn
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by kathyn »

For all those who are buying gold, what good is it if the economy crashes? How are you going to spend it? Gold is okay for speculation but really the speculation is against the dollar. If the price of gold is up, the dollar is down. So you could trade your gold for worthless dollars. If we really go down the tank, it's better to have food and commodities. We'll probably not see any "honest money" until New Jerusalem. I'm feeling cranky today, but that's my opinion. (I do have a number of silver pieces put away because they might be easier to use. But most of my savings is in food and commodities.)

As far as returning to "honest money" instead of "legal tender", it's not going to happen in this country and this economy.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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ithink wrote:This is garbage. Most newbies to the theory of money think that gold will save us. Others like Ron Paul and Alex Jones live in a box.

Folks, the international bankers refused to let gold go during the run up to the great depression, and a return to gold would accelerate the plunge of the world economy by some factor as it did in the 20's.
You got it all wrong brother.

The Great Depression was not caused by gold standard, but by government intervention trying to prevent correction from occurring. The Fed in the run up to the Great Depression inflated the "dollar," by printing much more of them then there was gold on hand; and since dollar was then backed by gold, when the day of reckoning came, Roosevelt had to steal peoples gold and outlaw the possession of gold, to bail the bankers out. Then he instituted price controls and tariffs, and started wasting immense resources in make-work unproductive public projects. That's what caused the depression. Not the gold.

Case in point, the depression of 1920. No one hardly remembers it, even though it was more devastating than the first year of the Great Depression. But the economy bounced back and recovered in a year! What was the difference? There was NO government intervention. The only way the government intervened was to cut taxes and government spending by 50%. That was the difference. They allowed correction to occur, and let the people who ought to go bankrupt fail. This, in conjunction with Fed inactivity, reduction of taxes and government spending, turned things around in one year! That's the difference. In fact, it was the greater departure from the gold standard that started The Great Depression. The Fed began to inflate massively through it's "open market" operations in 1922, after the economy recovered from 1920 depression and continued to do so all the way through "roaring twenties" creating the unsustainable bubble of misdirected investment and speculation. If 100% gold backing was strictly followed the bubble and collapse of 1929 could have never happened! In fact, there would've been no Great Depression, for 100% gold backing would have made Roosevelt's "New Deal" impossible, and it is the "New Deal" that caused the Great Depression!

Check out this:

Why You've Never Heard of the Great Depression of 1920
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on March 8th, 2010, 4:17 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

kathyn wrote:If we really go down the tank, it's better to have food and commodities.
You are absolutely right in that you cannot eat gold nor silver for that matter. Food and durable commodities are the first priority. But if you have savings beyond that, if you want to retain your purchasing power you need to buy gold and silver. Gold and Silver, historically, are the real money.

Cheers :)

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clarkkent14
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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"The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat." (President Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, p.298.)

". . .save the wheat until we have one, two, five, or seven years provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to bread themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety." (Discourses of Brigham Young, pp.291-293)

"For over 100 years we have been admonished to store up grain. ‘Remember the counsel that is given,’ said Elder Orson Hyde, ‘Store up all your grain, and take care of it!... And I tell you it is almost as necessary to have bread to sustain the body as it is to have food for the spirit.’ (Ezra Taft Benson, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 17)

‘There is more salvation and security in wheat, than in all the political schemes of the world...’ (Ezra Taft Benson, JD 2:207).

"...If we are to be saved in an ark, as Noah and his family were, it will be because we build it… My faith does not lead me to think the Lord will provide us with roast pigs, bread already buttered, etc., He will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it—to save the wheat until we have one, two, five or seven years’ provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to bread themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety...(the fulfillment of that prophecy is yet in the future)". Marion G. Romney (Quoting Brigham Young) (April Conference, 1976)

"I will tell you a dream which Brother Kesler had lately. He dreamed that there was a sack of gold and a cat placed before him, and that he had the privilege of taking which he pleased, whereupon he took the cat, and walked off with her. Why did he take the cat in preference to the Gold? Because he could eat the cat, but could not eat the gold. You may see about such times before you die. --Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 4:3"

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Original_Intent
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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kathyn wrote:For all those who are buying gold, what good is it if the economy crashes? How are you going to spend it? Gold is okay for speculation but really the speculation is against the dollar. If the price of gold is up, the dollar is down. So you could trade your gold for worthless dollars. If we really go down the tank, it's better to have food and commodities. We'll probably not see any "honest money" until New Jerusalem. I'm feeling cranky today, but that's my opinion. (I do have a number of silver pieces put away because they might be easier to use. But most of my savings is in food and commodities.)

As far as returning to "honest money" instead of "legal tender", it's not going to happen in this country and this economy.
Actually, gold and silver have recently been moving independent of movement on the dollar - i.e. gold, silver, and the dollar have all moved upwards at the same time.

Aside from that I agree 110% - food, fuel, other necessities, as well as an ability to PRODUCE something, such as home industry are a much higher priority. I also try to have some of my "emergency funds" in both PMs and FRNs (although I heavily favor the former, and jsut try to keep a couple of months worth of cash readily available.)

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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Some one from a different forum made a good point that led me to strengthen the language of the amendment to empower the people even more to defend it.

What do you think? Is this version better?

    • Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden. Government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that all are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent free competition in currencies among private citizens. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.

I think I like this better!

Thanks.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Another tool that the Fed's use to shut down competing monetary systems, especially gold and silver ones is capital gain taxes. We should take care of that too.

How's that:

  • Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden. Government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that the people are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent free competition in currencies among private citizens, nor charge capital gain taxes on the medium of exchange. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.


Thank you.
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 20th, 2010, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rensai
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by Rensai »

LoveIsTruth wrote:Another tool that the Fed's use to shut down competing monetary systems, especially gold and silver ones is capital gain taxes. We should take care of that too.

How's that:

  • Fiat monetary system and paper money inflation being some of the greatest enemies of liberty and prosperity of the people, legal tender laws are strictly forbidden. Government shall make no law establishing an exclusive form of currency that all are forced to use in private transactions, neither shall it prevent free competition in currencies among private citizens, nor charge capital gain taxes on the medium of exchange. The right of the people to transact among themselves in any currency they choose shall not be abridged.


Thank you.
I don't think you need to worry about the exact wording. I applaud the effort. I'd love to see something like this pass because it might slow the gadiantons down a little. But that's about all we can hope for. The real problem isn't that we need to get the right wording in the constitution to correct the schemes that have been used to destroy this country. The root problem, is that we have allowed the secret combinations to get above us. No written law matters when you are dealing with secret combinations. Do they respect the constitution as it is written now or do they knowingly violate it? If they violate what we have now, how could this change really help when we know that as things currently stand, they would probably just ignore it even if we could pass it? At best something like this might slow them down a little.
John Adams wrote: Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Sam Adams wrote: A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.
The founders knew righteousness was a limitation on the constitution. In fact, its a limitation on any government isn't it? The BoM shows us that every time a society becomes evil it tears itself apart. I keep seeing all these topics on the Fed or fiat money and I just don't get it. It all seems like its a day late and a dollar short to me.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Rensai wrote:I don't think you need to worry about the exact wording. I applaud the effort. I'd love to see something like this pass because it might slow the gadiantons down a little.
Thank you.
Rensai wrote:The real problem isn't that we need to get the right wording in the constitution to correct the schemes that have been used to destroy this country. The root problem, is that we have allowed the secret combinations to get above us.
They got above us exactly through “the schemes that have been used to destroy this country”, so if you are restore liberty, you must undo the schemes, as is the purpose of this amendment.
Rensai wrote:No written law matters when you are dealing with secret combinations.
Some law empowers the people more than others. We are duty bound to make the law as conducive to liberty and prosperity as possible.
Rensai wrote:Do they respect the constitution as it is written now or do they knowingly violate it? If they violate what we have now, how could this change really help when we know that as things currently stand, they would probably just ignore it even if we could pass it?
The History of this country has amply shown that if the Constitution is to be defended, it is the people who must do it, because the government will not. There is a key flaw in the original Constitution. That flaw is that the reasons WHY certain provisions are made in the Constitution, and how they relate to preserving people's liberty are missing from it. Without the WHY the people are disempowered to protect the Constitution, and would be tyrants are empowered to obfuscate and subvert it. In the defense of liberty persuasion and education of the people in the cause of liberty is everything, because again, only the people can be counted on to defend the Constitution, because the government will not.

So therefore, the power is in the WHY. And we are putting this WHY into the Constitution to empower the people to protect it better.
Rensai wrote:The founders knew righteousness was a limitation on the constitution. In fact, its a limitation on any government isn't it?
Yes it is. But it is an expression of righteousness of the people to try to put amendments like this one into the Constitution. Remember the words of Mormon:
    • “And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness, and rest our souls in the kingdom of God.”

      (Moroni 9:6)
Rensai wrote:I keep seeing all these topics on the Fed or fiat money and I just don't get it. It all seems like its a day late and a dollar short to me.
The Fed and fiat money are the very instruments of enslavement. True that sound currency never saved a wicked society, but no righteous one can exist without it! It is our duty to do all in our power to restore and preserve the principles of liberty, of which sound money is a key one. We must oppose evil on all levels! This is one level. And an important one at that!

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ithink
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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I've come to the conclusion that you are a shill. Nobody would sing the song you sing as loud and as long as you sing without backing it up. We know you love gold and you love to call gold an "honest money supply", but you ignore all the history that shows how gold worked very well to the destruction of the people that used it. But for all I care -- keep singing, I'm sure those really want the truth will hear your busking and keep moving right along.

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clarkkent14
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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I am starting to think that usury is a greater problem than fiat money. It's what rules our current system. Interest forces money up the food chain, not fiat currency. Debt has enslaved the world. What would sovereign money be like?

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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ithink wrote:you ignore all the history that shows how gold worked very well to the destruction of the people that used it.
It was not gold that caused the destruction of the people but wickedness. By the same logic you can say air caused the destruction of the people, or water, because they were breathing and drinking at the time they were destroyed. Gold is just another commodity. Very convenient as a medium of exchange, but just a commodity. And it is 100% commodity based monetary system that is the most stable and the most honest system known to man.

As for me being a shill. That is very curious! I want to put the banks out of the loop of money creation and thus destroy compound interest that they attach to its creation. And destruction of compound interest attached to money creation will be the solution which you so passionately seek yourself as well. And this makes me a shill?

You and I seek the same thing, giving the power of money into the hands of the people, and destruction of compound interest attached to money creation. Would you agree with that?

The only place we differ is how to accomplish it.

You want to use government force to institute government forced fiat, and outlaw interest.

I say, freedom works much better. Let's legalize competition in currencies, and remove government coercion from the realm of money all together, by repealing legal tender laws and removing taxes on the medium of exchange. When thus free market begins to operate in currencies, government and banker fiat will end, because it will be rejected as unstable and fraudulent. What monetary system will then prevail? The one that preserves people's purchasing power, and the one that has no interest attached to it. What system would that be. 100% commodity based monetary system. Why would there be no interest attached to its creation? Because (in case of gold or silver or palladium) the miner gets it from the ground and strikes it into coins or bars and then SPENDS them into circulation. There is no debt at the creation of money in that way, therefore there is no interest accruing. It is just created and spent into circulation. This will be the most preferred monetary system of a truly free market, because it is the most honest and stable monetary system known to man.

True some miners and minters would want to loan the coins they've made. And there will be some people who will borrow them. Then there will be interest paid. But majority will simply trade goods and services in exchange for the coins that mint creates without any debt creation in the process! And because the miner or the mint cannot create the coins out of nothing, they cannot rob the people through legalized counterfeiting and inflation, because they have to expend effort and labor to extract the metal from the earth! Thus this system will be also honest, for it does not give money producer something for nothing, because money is a commodity with intrinsic value, and it takes effort and labor to produce it.

Thus in the end we arrive to our mutual goal:

1) We get a stable monetary system.
2) We killed the interest attached to money creation.
3) We prevented legalized counterfeiting and inflation!
4) Because of all of the above we destroyed the strangle hold over the control of money exercised by the banks and the government, and the people are in control of money via the mechanism of free market.

All this was accomplished simply by removing government force from the realm of money (repealing legal tender laws and capital gain and sales taxes on the medium of exchange), and thus allowing free market in money to operate!

Freedom accomplishes all that. That's why I said that Freedom works, and that it is the only thing that does work!

The difference between me and you is that you do not believe that freedom can work in the realm of money. You believe you need government coercion in money to make it stable and just. I believe the reverse is true. It was government force that gave the banksters monopoly over the money supply and allowed fiat fraud to become universal and enforced by government. Remove that force, and the fiat empire will come crumbling down, because it cannot compete against an honest and stable monetary system that will be chosen by the free market i.e. 100% commodity based monetary system,--the most stable and honest monetary system known to man.

Thanks.
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 24th, 2010, 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

O, I forgot sales taxes on the medium of exchange. The idea here is that you don't pay sales tax when you change $5 bill into quarters, so you shouldn't pay sales tax say on gold and silver when you use them as money.

All these are Ron Paul's ideas, I simply put them in the form of an amendment that also explains to people WHY it is important.

Please see the updated version at the very top.

Thanks.

:)
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 24th, 2010, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jason
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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clarkkent14 wrote:I am starting to think that usury is a greater problem than fiat money. It's what rules our current system. Interest forces money up the food chain, not fiat currency. Debt has enslaved the world. What would sovereign money be like?
Yeppers....that and wickedness! Solve those two and we could use peanut shells as a medium of exchange without complications.

Ultimately the best setup would represent units of labor.....and that could be approached from several angles. Gold/silver backed currency works as medium of exchange but so do many other methods (paper, plastic, sticks, sea shells, beads, rocks, etc etc etc).....and gold/silver is no guarantee against wickedness or ending up as slaves!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:and gold/silver is no guarantee against wickedness or ending up as slaves!
Gold and silver is MUCH, MUCH better guarantee against wickedness than paper! That's the whole point! Your unit's of labor system requires angels that never get sick, and all perform equally. Gold or silver make no such assumptions! That's why it is the most stable and the most honest monetary system known to man!

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Jason
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by Jason »

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Jason wrote:and gold/silver is no guarantee against wickedness or ending up as slaves!
Gold and silver is MUCH, MUCH better guarantee against wickedness than paper! That's the whole point! Your unit's of labor system requires angels that never get sick, and all perform equally. Gold or silver make no such assumptions! That's why it is the most stable and the most honest monetary system known to man!
LOL....agree to disagree!

Is it a chicken/egg thing....or is the prerequisite righteousness? I think its the latter....and gold/silver don't mean squat without it. England went bankrupt in less than 100 years after adopting gold standard. The federal reserve is nearly 100 years old....

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ithink
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

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clarkkent14 wrote:I am starting to think that usury is a greater problem than fiat money. It's what rules our current system. Interest forces money up the food chain, not fiat currency. Debt has enslaved the world. What would sovereign money be like?
Keep going, I think you are on the right track.

Here are a few quotes for you to consider again:

""If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson, Letter 1802 to Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin"

Note that Jefferson said it was the private banks that would destroy the country. Why? Why did Jefferson not target the mechanism itself -- ie. gold vs. fiat? Why keep the control of money in government hands? Does government have a gold mine? Can government get gold without private business?

Here is another:

"“Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes that nation's laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile. The Liberal Party believes that credit is a public matter, not of interest to bankers only, but of direct concern to every citizen. The Liberal Party declares itself in favour of the immediate establishment of a duly constituted national bank for the control of the issue of money in terms of public needs. The flow of money must be in relation with the domestic, social, and industrial needs of the Canadian people.”"

Keep in mind that King worked with Rockefeller for years as his right hand man. King understood money, credit, and international finance. He knew how it worked. Unfortunately, after the election, he was not able to fully implement what he wished to do. Notice that whether the system is gold or fiat is incidental in both these quotes to the total control of the private bankers.

How about this one:

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes the laws". Mayer Amschel Rothschild. Rothschil

Why did Rothschild not say "give me a fiat money supply, and I care not who makes the laws"? Because he doesn't care if you choose gold or fiat or yak dung. If he controls it -- we are collectively out to pasture.

And we will lose all our liberty if we can't get past the gold herring of the gold money supply. Mark my words.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Jason wrote:Is it a chicken/egg thing....or is the prerequisite righteousness? I think its the latter....and gold/silver don't mean squat without it. England went bankrupt in less than 100 years after adopting gold standard. The federal reserve is nearly 100 years old....
It begins and ends with righteousness. And it is righteous to protect liberty against foibles and machinations of wicked men. Gold and silver accomplish it much better than paper.

As for England, it was on gold and silver standard for much longer than 100 years. It was on it for over 1000 years. Kings tally sticks constituted relatively small percentage of the entire commerce. And since the majority of transactions were done in a sound currency, and kings plunder via the tally sticks was relatively small, they prospered. Enter Bank of England fraud: It was not a 100% gold standard; in fact the founders of the bank boasted that they got "the benefit of charging interest on the money created out of nothing." That's an exact quote. What they institutionalized was fractional reserve fraud, where they would issue unbacked gold certificates and charge interest on them. This was the beginnings of full fiat. This partial counterfeiting standard bankrupt England in under 100 years. Not gold! It is the departures from gold that bankrupted them.

So you got it backwards. 100% gold (or any other commodity) standard makes such legalized counterfeiting impossible (at least it makes it very dangerous, because once it is known you go bankrupt or to jail). This restraint is wholly removed under a full fiat system we have now. Hence the debt, bankruptcy, and economic collapse we are witnessing.

The only true solution here is a 100% commodity based, interest free, monetary system, -- the most stable and honest monetary system known to man.
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 24th, 2010, 9:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

ithink wrote:Why did Rothschild not say "give me a fiat money supply, and I care not who makes the laws"? Because he doesn't care if you choose gold or fiat or yak dung. If he controls it -- we are collectively out to pasture.
That's the whole point. I am proposing removing the control of money out of governments hands, and out of bankers hands, because it is government force, via legal tender law, that handed the bankers the control over currency. So abolish this government force, and banker fiat and associated interest comes crushing down. Why? Because now ANYONE can create money. In this free market atmosphere, the currency most preferred by the people wins the main share of the transactions. What would that currency be? What will unfettered free market choose absent government force and coercion? It will be INTEREST FREE, 100% commodity based currency!

Problems solved! You killed interest attached to money creation, and you prevented legalized counterfeiting and inflation!

Is it not what we all want? And Freedom, i.e. absence of government force, in the realm of money is the only system that delivers it best!

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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by clarkkent14 »

It's not about fiat currency!

From Confessions of an Economic Hitman:
That is what we EHMs do best: we build a global empire. We are an elite group of men and women who utilize international financial organizations to foment conditions that make other nations subservient to the corporatocracy running our biggest corporations, our government, and our banks. Like our counterparts in the Mafia, EHMs provide favors. These take the form of loans to develop infrastructure—electric generating plants, highways, ports, airports, or industrial parks. A condition of such loans is that engineering and construction companies from our own country must build all these projects. In essence, most of the money never leaves the United States; it is simply transferred from banking offices in Washington to engineering offices in New York, Houston, or San Francisco.
It's about Usury!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

clarkkent14 wrote:It's not about fiat currency!

From Confessions of an Economic Hitman:
...
It's about Usury!
Freedom solves BOTH problems!

Whatever your take on this is, it does not matter! Because we are solving both problems with one stone. Let me explain:

(By the way, I say usury by itself is not a sin, otherwise the Lord would not have said: "I should have received mine own with usury" (Mathew 25:27). Usury becomes sin when it is attached to fiat money creation and then this fiat is FORCED upon everyone by the government. Now THIS is sin, because there is force involved. Then it is adding insult to the injury.)

But whatever your view on the subject is, the solution I am proposing KILLS USURY attached to money creation, and it also largely destroys fiat, and it does all of it without FORCE! In fact, it is accomplished by removing the FORCE of government out of the realm of money all together, and thus allowing free market to operate in currencies. This kills fiat, because it cannot exist without government force, because it will be largely rejected by the free market as unstable and fraudulent. Secondly, such free market in currencies KILLS usury attached to money creation, because people will largely prefer INTEREST FREE, sound, 100% commodity money, that are NOT crated as debt!

Thus Freedom SOLVES the problem of usury based money (because it will be rejected by the free market; who likes to be robbed anyway?), and it solves the problem of fiat (i.e. legalized counterfeiting), because it will also be rejected by a truly free market in favor of 100% commodity based, interest free monetary system, -- the most honest, and the most stable monetary system known to man!

That's why I said that Freedom works. It is the only thing that does work! -- FREEDOM! Freedom for the people! That's all I am asking for! You gotta agree with that!

:)

Thanks.
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 24th, 2010, 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mahonri
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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by Mahonri »

depends on your definition of "freedom". Is freedom license?

I say that only the complete Gospel of Jesus Christ will fix it. Anything less than that will lead to another form of tyranny.

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Re: Honest Money Constitutional Amendment

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Mahonri wrote:depends on your definition of "freedom". Is freedom license?

I say that only the complete Gospel of Jesus Christ will fix it. Anything less than that will lead to another form of tyranny.
My definition of freedom is Jefferson's definition:
  • "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." --Thomas Jefferson.
As for the Gospel. True, complete liberty and prosperity is impossible without living according to the principles of the Gospel. However, it does not mean that our duty to establish just and fair laws conducive to liberty is removed. If that was the case, our church leaders would've told us to sit home and not participate in any political process until "the complete Gospel" is embraced by everyone!

It is our duty to do our best to establish just laws that promote freedom and prosperity of the people NOW, and not just in the Millennium!

In fact, our ability to preserve liberty may be directly related to our ability to proclaim the gospel, etc. So restoring and preserving liberty is a sacred duty now and not 1,000 years from now. And restoring an honest monetary system is KEY to preserving liberty and prosperity in this land!
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on July 24th, 2010, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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