Why are so many members Liberals?

[Jason]

Possibly.

The devil shifts his attack strategy to be where you would least expect it.

Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The idea of secret banking cabals that control the country and global economy are a given among conspiracy theorists who stockpile ammo, bottled water and peanut butter. After this week’s congressional hearing into the bailout of American International Group Inc., you have to wonder if those folks are crazy after all.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... IuE.W8RAuU

I find that believable. ...in fact I would rank it as "likely".

I don't know what your stance is, though... do you believe this or not?

Romney’s foreign policy views generally align with those of the Bush administration. He sees Islamic fundamentalists, or “jihadists,” as the most pressing threat to the United States. He has focused his foreign policy platform on upping defense spending, forging “global networks of intelligence and law enforcement,” and supporting “moderate Muslims” throughout the Middle East.

The Los Angeles Times reported on August 14, 2007, that Romney has investments in an oil company tied to the Sudanese government, which is accused of being partially responsible for the massacres in Darfur. Romney’s campaign spokesman told the Times that Romney’s attorney controls his investments and that he “had no influence over how his investments were handled.” His spokesman did not say whether Romney would divest these funds.

Romney has been a proponent of domestic intelligence gathering methods and has called for increased federal funding and participation in such measures. Romney’s opinion regarding the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretaps is unknown, but he clearly does not have qualms with domestic spying in general. In 2005, Romney made headlines by advocating the wiretapping of mosques (BosGlobe) within the United States. During his time as governor, Massachusetts opened a “fusion center” for enhanced intelligence analysis within the state. Romney has argued that individual states should play a larger role in domestic intelligence gathering.

Romney has said that the U.S. military must be bolstered, and in April 2007 he called for an increase in military size by one hundred thousand troops. He also said the United States must dedicate at least 4 percent of its gross domestic product to defense, thus “making up for critical gaps in our military modernization, equipment, personnel, and health care efforts.” Romney says the United States should spend an additional $40 billion to $50 billion per year on military modernization.

http://www.cfr.org/bios/13226/mitt_romney.html

I don't know how to take that. I don't know what point you were making, so I don't have a response. Do you take issue with Domestic Spying? ...or is it spending money on National Defense? I don't know what your point was... but nothing there stood out as a red flag for me.

I guess I can cut to the chase by asking the following question (if you bother to answer it... you haven't answered most of the questions I've asked):

"Do you believe in the ownership of Information? Do you believe controlling information or privacy is a God-given right?"

Mr. Allen, author of None Dare Call It Conspiracy discussed the Council’s role and effect on American policy:

The policies promoted by the C.F.R. in the fields of defense and international relations become, with a regularity which defies the laws of chance, the official policies of the United States Government. As Liberal columnist Joseph Kraft, himself a member of the C.F.R., noted of the Council in the Harper’s article:

“It has been the seat of some basic government decisions, has set the context for many more, and has repeatedly served as a recruiting ground for ranking officials.” (Gary Allen, via Quoty)

How has the Council been involved in key government decisions? As cited above, members of the CFR have filled key positions in every presidential administration for the past fifty years. The list of members is quite extensive and features many prominent individuals. Notable as well are the presidential candidates who are members as well:

* Hillary Clinton
* Rudy Giuliani
* Barack Obama
* Fred Thompson
* Chris Dodd
* Mitt Romney
* John Edwards
* Joe Biden
* John McCain
* Bill Richardson

The notable exception: Ron Paul.

http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/counci ... -relations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9IJUkYUbvI

What is CFR? Are you talking about the "Council on Foreign Relations"? Do I correctly understand that you feel that this is an evil organization?

If that's the case, how would you correct it? What was Mitt Romney doing on that Council? Were his efforts Noble or Evil? Do you know? I don't.

I don't respond to your questions because you have the stewardship and responsibility for your own education)....just pointing out areas you might study! Of course its probably a big waste of time as BG has already pointed out.

[Cowell]

I thought cryptic communication was something for Gadianton Robbers.

Why not glory in plainness like Nephi did?

Tony, you will notice I have made a personal effort to keep my statements very plain.

Do you really believe there are literally oath bound gadianton robbers today who have infested our media and government? Did you know there is a good chance Romney is one of them? Not kidding here.

[TonyOlsen]

Tony,

I'm glad to see Romney gone too. And what's so shallow about that? You talk about freedom and seem to reference the principles of the founders, but you have to know that Romney is the opposite of all of this.

I have no issue with anyone here not liking Mitt Romney.

That was NEVER my issue.

It's the un-Christlike, mean-spirited, childish, name-calling, rude way in which it was generally communicated.

I have no issue with people disagreeing with each other. For those who seek Freedom, they'd better get used to it.

I have issue with LDS members not acting like LDS members.

It's shallow if you treat people differently, and/or show more or less love to someone based on whether you agree with their beliefs or not (or ... even more shallow... if they "look" the way you'd prefer).

[Jason]

I don't know what the point of this post is.

I would agree with many of those things listed (although not all).

I think that either Obama is a member of the Gadianton Robbers... or else he's a puppet for them. There are just soo many "coincidences" that the probability that they are truly "coincidences" is incredibly low.

(Do you watch Glenn Beck? He's talked about this a lot)

But I honestly don't know what your point was. Let me know.

You made the point! No I don't watch GB.

I thought cryptic communication was something for Gadianton Robbers.

Why not glory in plainness like Nephi did?

Two short sentences....what part did you not understand?

[Jason]

While I do believe that evil occurs daily everywhere, I don't think that most of them end up on the front page of the enquirer.

As far as the depleted Uranium story, I see a few red flags.
* One: Upon various searches regarding that town, this accusation is rarely mentioned. If this were true, you would think more people would know about it.

I would hate to have some of the people here on a jury trying my case. I don't think the "truth filtering" is very sound.

bold mine

Do you want an explanation for this one also????

[TonyOlsen]

I thought cryptic communication was something for Gadianton Robbers.

Why not glory in plainness like Nephi did?

Tony, you will notice I have made a personal effort to keep my statements very plain.

Thank you

Do you really believe there are literally oath bound gadianton robbers today who have infested our media and government?

Yes.

Don't most here as well?

Did you know there is a good chance Romney is one of them? Not kidding here.

Possibly. I'd give it a 10% chance.

Is Ron Paul a member as well? I'd give it a 5% chance.

[TonyOlsen]

While I do believe that evil occurs daily everywhere, I don't think that most of them end up on the front page of the enquirer.

As far as the depleted Uranium story, I see a few red flags.
* One: Upon various searches regarding that town, this accusation is rarely mentioned. If this were true, you would think more people would know about it.

I would hate to have some of the people here on a jury trying my case. I don't think the "truth filtering" is very sound.

bold mine

Do you want an explanation for this one also????

Would it matter? You've made it clear you don't seek to answer my questions... so why should I ask them?

[Cowell]

I don't think it is likely that Ron Paul is a member of the Gadiantons. Anything is possible, and there are indeed people who would believe this. I think it is clear however that he is more a threat to them than they would like to acknowledge. The "Tea Party" movement is a large effort to drown out the much smaller but much more potent Ron Paul movement. Need proof? Who started the tea parties? Just google Ron+Paul+money+bomb+boston and see what comes up. Why would it be necessary for the Gadiantons to drown out Ron Paul's message if he were one of them? It is clear from this he is not. There are many legitimate threats (or would-be-threats) to their brainwashing and lies, but the Gadiantons don't worry about this, because they control the media and the major political parties, so these voices of truth here and there can't withstand that power.

[TonyOlsen]

I'm learning the Control Panel. I've made some changes for a better peace of mind, and less waste of my time.

I'm moving over to this other thread.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 19&t=10544

You'll find me there.

[TonyOlsen]

That was NEVER my issue...It's the un-Christlike, mean-spirited, childish, name-calling, rude way in which it was generally communicated.

You might have noticed that a variety of people on this forum don't care Tony. It would be great if we could all speak to each other as if we were in general conference all the time, but this is not realistic.

But shouldn't that be the goal of each LDS member?

You are on a forum where many people think the U.S. government and the interests that control it is the great and abominable church. Some of us have recently awoken to this realization, some of us are fighting that realization, and others have known for quite some time, either way, you will notice that these LDS folk are actually exceptionally patient with each other. However, it can be difficult walking a new member of the forum from A to Z and sometimes its unclear where someone who is new is in their understanding of certain topics and principles. In my personal opinion, you should take some of the jabs with a grain of salt and realize we are each trying to make a point...and we're likely doing so with your best interest at heart, believe it or not, and despite if it comes of a bit brash from time to time. Take it as a compliment, it just means you have peoples interest.

Thanks... I think.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 19&t=10544

[Cowell]

But shouldn't that be the goal of each LDS member?

I think eveyone would agree this should be a goal.

[AussieOi]

Cheers Mate! This one's for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghnx1o5gJ4

actually this is more me

i can assure you, 100% promise I have done this. you have the rod in 1 hand and a knife in the other.

man i am so sh** sacred (leave it there okay, it adds context) of crocodiles

that one was small, i'd jump on that and kick it myself

once they hit 2.5m you can't laugh anymore

they are so scarey

[AussieOi]

You know... the words "chill out" do sound a little bit funny coming from you.

tony you have a great career in politics for sure

self righteous
always wounded
pompous
holier than thou
changes topic
doesnt address an issue with anything substantial
well, my take anyway

and hey, doesn't mean i don't like you either

anyway, i think i get you

my thoughts are on why you are so lukeward

Pres GBH did not come out in Gen Conference and say war is bad.
but he didn't say its good either- thats entithetical
but he did lend his support to the iraq invasion, it would appear
but war is bad we know that

you therefore have to reconcile a lot, and so remain impartial, incapable of seeing what is now clearly the good for the bad. and i can give you that. thats been a HUGE issue for many people in regards to testimony of revelation to the prophets.

i mean how can they get something like that_so_wrong- which is what many people do feel.

and so i understand your responses

that plus your probably being brought up in a republican household that included President Reagan, Bush and Bush in their prayers possibly warped you

and probably being bought up believing that as I have said ...Democrats + pro gay anti church pro abortion, and Republicans = christian pro marriage pro life likewise

when figuring out that republicans have had power what, 20 of the last 28 years nationally pre Obama, and what, all those things got worse in that time that they were meant to stand for...........yeah, thats a lot of unwinding to deal with

But at the end of the day, at the end of 11 pages, your complete naivety and ignorance of Fallujah, White Phosperous and Depleted Uranium have broken me.

How can a seemingly intelligent persion be so completely ignorant of possibly the greatest metaphor of US foreign policy alongside the picture of the Vietnamese Girl covered in Napalm? how can you not know about this evil?

do you know about the 1 million dead and 500,000 dead CHILDREN in iraq in the 1990s through your embargoes and sanctions?

But I get it. I've been there. I've been to the USA. I've been to Utah. I don't expect any more of you. Its not your fault. You just don't know. thats all

So sorry mate, but until you reach a level of enlightenment and awareness that most plus of the people here but impoertanly most 85% of every literate person on this globe .............until you can actually hold a conversation with the words "evil, immoral, satanic, foul, horror" and "depleted uranium" and "white phospherous" in a paragaph, you'll not get much of a rise from me.

[LukeAir2008]

We live in a crazy world. A couple of years back we had a visiting unit who were firing mortars as part of a joint fire Air Force/Army exercise. We later discovered that the mortars contained white phosphorous. I requested signs to mark the area and warn the public of the contamination. Request was denied. Either too expensive or maybe letting the cat out of the bag?

[Jason]

We live in a crazy world. A couple of years back we had a visiting unit who were firing mortars as part of a joint fire Air Force/Army exercise. We later discovered that the mortars contained white phosphorous. I requested signs to mark the area and warn the public of the contamination. Request was denied. Either too expensive or maybe letting the cat out of the bag?

Everybody had girls if the wife got pregnant within 6 months of returning from deployment on aircraft carrier.

[AussieOi]

We live in a crazy world. A couple of years back we had a visiting unit who were firing mortars as part of a joint fire Air Force/Army exercise. We later discovered that the mortars contained white phosphorous. I requested signs to mark the area and warn the public of the contamination. Request was denied. Either too expensive or maybe letting the cat out of the bag?

Everybody had girls if the wife got pregnant within 6 months of returning from deployment on aircraft carrier.

Not good is it

I truly fear for what your soldiers will bring back to their spouses and children
think about what has been left behind!!!

WP is (AFAIK) an incendiary, like napalm

Agent orange is a pesticide, a defoliant. i have seen that multiple times first hand. it is shocking, crule, inhumane, beyond understanding

DU is another toxic chemical
what kind of person could make, fund, buy, sell, use, fire, be even remotely involved in these weapons

they aren't war, they are genocide against humanity

[LukeAir2008]

This site is definately being monitored by DHS/NSA. I just tried to post a rather controversial statement about Afghanistan and was redirected to another site and told the server on this site had failed...? 8)

[AussieOi]

Re the shallow

Hey tony I can be even shallower don't worry

But I can- I've never held myself out to be pious like ahem some others here eh

Can I ask would u wear a t shirt with a picture of david duke on it to a rosa parks memorial meeting?

Or a picture of larry flynt to a porn recovery session?

That's what mutt is to me

U call it shallow but you are still unable to defend him

I expect that is why you have removed him

He is a false political prophet I agree

[TonyOlsen]

I'm sorry that I allowed myself to get upset last night.

I personally like my current avatar better than my previous one, but switching that avatar in the middle of Hate-Mitt-Bigotry provided me with an inner conflict, which caused me to be frustrated.

I didn't want to be an enabler of those who glory in their ability to "chase away" people who think differently than them (and that on a "Freedom" forum... oh, the irony), but I also prefer this Avatar more (for it's personal background story) and my last Avatar was causing a mental-block to many of the posters, which was getting in the way of what I felt were more meaningful discussions. There was also the desire to keep the old avatar up for personal prideful reasons, as a defensive mechanism against the onslaught, but I resisted that... although it was tempting.

Like I said originally, I think Mitt is still learning and growing, and doesn't have the long-term record of a solid-foundation that Ron Paul has... but I don't like parts of Ron Paul's foundation. Both candidates are imperfect for different reasons and I have pause voting for either while also admiring both of them for certain aspects of their person. I have concerns about Ron Paul because I don't think he would approve of many of Captain Moroni's actions, and I have concerns about Mitt Romney because I don't know if he's given up the aspects of Socialism that have polluted his past.

I still have much to learn about turning the other cheek and turning away from fights. I think I'm guilty of casting my pearls too often.

I'm moving this conversation over to my new thread and am planning on turning over a new leaf there.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 19&t=10544

[TonyOlsen]

Pres GBH did not come out in Gen Conference and say war is bad.
but he didn't say its good either- thats entithetical
but he did lend his support to the iraq invasion, it would appear
but war is bad we know that

you therefore have to reconcile a lot, and so remain impartial, incapable of seeing what is now clearly the good for the bad. and i can give you that. thats been a HUGE issue for many people in regards to testimony of revelation to the prophets.

i mean how can they get something like that_so_wrong- which is what many people do feel.

It's posts like that that have me worried.

Such mindset leads to apostasy. I've seen it happen too many times. It's dangerous.

I have faith that God does in fact lead the restored Church of Jesus Christ in these Latter-days.

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
- President Wilford Woodruff (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

I believe the above statement is true.

This is why I say that I believe that while your understanding of war is mostly on the right path... there are a few areas that I think your understanding may be faulty, which is causing your conflict with the Lord's chosen Prophet. ...and in conflict with Captain Moroni's own actions.

...this is just one of the few red flags that cause me to resist jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else.

...and I wonder if that same aspect of Ron Paul's otherwise perfect platform that I have issue with... I wonder if Ron Paul's personal beliefs on this issue (which I think are off a little) may be the cause of your personal conflict with the Lord's servant.

You talked before of the danger of deifying Prophets as being imperfect. Perhaps that is happening for a few Ron Paul fans?

[Jason]

Like I said originally, I think Mitt is still learning and growing, and doesn't have the long-term record of a solid-foundation that Ron Paul has...

How are you measuring Mitt's growth progress?

[AussieOi]

Like I said originally, I think Mitt is still learning and growing, and doesn't have the long-term record of a solid-foundation that Ron Paul has...

How are you measuring Mitt's growth progress?

The better question is why?

The guy is jist another wannabe sellout politician

Whatevers popular and makes money eh mitt

He offers nothing......more of the same

Hence why I guess some members are liberal

(Note replace mitts name with Reid and I am comfortable saying hence why....some members are conservatives)

Its all been newspeaked anyway- lables mean nothing

[Jason]

Like I said originally, I think Mitt is still learning and growing, and doesn't have the long-term record of a solid-foundation that Ron Paul has...

How are you measuring Mitt's growth progress?

The better question is why?

The guy is jist another wannabe sellout politician

Whatevers popular and makes money eh mitt

He offers nothing......more of the same

Hence why I guess some members are liberal

(Note replace mitts name with Reid and I am comfortable saying hence why....some members are conservatives)

Its all been newspeaked anyway- lables mean nothing

I was just curious as to how Tony was measuring progress....as I haven't seen any. As you point out....status quo....zero change....zero progress. Good ol' CFR lackey!

[TonyOlsen]

One thing I love about this forum, which many who were "chased" away may not have known about, is that you can have peaceful meaningful conversations with the more enlightened group of forum members without getting dragged down by the loveless ogres, by simply turning those ogres off... then you don't see them anymore (unless you want to).

Peace... glorious peace.

That "feature" allows the more loving members to share knowledge, learn, and grow, without losing the spirit.

[Jason]

One thing I love about this forum, which many who were "chased" away may not have known about, is that you can have peaceful meaningful conversations with the more enlightened group of forum members without getting dragged down by the loveless ogres, by simply turning those ogres off... then you don't see them anymore (unless you want to).

Peace... glorious peace.

That "feature" allows the more loving members to share knowledge, learn, and grow, without losing the spirit.

Smoke away my friend....smoke away!