Conspiracy folks... I finally understand

[gclayjr]

hogmeister,

In addition to the Protocols (leaked 1903) also read/listen to:

disgusting, proven fake!! Unbelievable the horrors and brutally vicious events perpetrated, that are justified by this faker y, which by the way was the purpose of it.

PS3. I have never been anti-semite (this is foremost a propaganda label parroted by the ignorant and the conspiring to protect the conspiracy).

Whitewash of anti-semitic conspiracy theorists the world over as if somehow making such a declaration immunes them from people recognizing the truth of this hatred.

None Dare Call it Conspiracy, by Gary Allen

Standard anti-Semitic conspiracy trick. As if somehow "None dare call it conspiracy" and the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are equal. They are not.

Again, I would like to thank you for another of so many, posts proving the very essence of the point I have been making about conspiracy theorists, and the root of anti-Semitism that is underneath so much of the conspiracy stuff.

Now I know not all conspiracy folks are anti_Semitic. However, if you truly believe that your anti-conspiracy stuff is important, and true, why don't you stand up boldly, and reject this stuff instead of hiding behind pathetic vague claims that you don't believe ALL conspiracy literature and theories,

Again, I would think that you would want to boldly stand with me, rather than throw out pathetic attempts at insulting me as one who doesn't understand. But I guess that is the real attraction to conspiracy theories. They make you feel more superior and enlightened than the rest of us, without actually having to stand up and do anything.


Regards,

George Clay

[Hogmeister]

hogmeister,

In addition to the Protocols (leaked 1903) also read/listen to:

disgusting, proven fake!! Unbelievable the horrors and brutally vicious events perpetrated, that are justified by this faker y, which by the way was the purpose of it.

PS3. I have never been anti-semite (this is foremost a propaganda label parroted by the ignorant and the conspiring to protect the conspiracy).

Whitewash of anti-semitic conspiracy theorists the world over as if somehow making such a declaration immunes them from people recognizing the truth of this hatred.

None Dare Call it Conspiracy, by Gary Allen

Standard anti-Semitic conspiracy trick. As if somehow "None dare call it conspiracy" and the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" are equal. They are not.

Again, I would like to thank you for another of so many, posts proving the very essence of the point I have been making about conspiracy theorists, and the root of anti-Semitism that is underneath so much of the conspiracy stuff.

Now I know not all conspiracy folks are anti_Semitic. However, if you truly believe that your anti-conspiracy stuff is important, and true, why don't you stand up boldly, and reject this stuff instead of hiding behind pathetic vague claims that you don't believe ALL conspiracy literature and theories,

Again, I would think that you would want to boldly stand with me, rather than throw out pathetic attempts at insulting me as one who doesn't understand. But I guess that is the real attraction to conspiracy theories. They make you feel more superior and enlightened than the rest of us, without actually having to stand up and do anything.


Regards,

George Clay

You haven't provided a single reasoned and researched argument yet (Stefan Molyneux would throw a fit). Instead throwing labels and insults like a raving lunatic.

Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

[Hogmeister]

Another great read for revealing the "illusion" of Keynesianism (modern economics) that you will never come across at university or business school:

"The Failure of the New Economics", Henry Hazlitt 1959
https://mises.org/sites/default/files/F ... mics_3.pdf

[Hogmeister]

hogmeister,

In addition to the Protocols (leaked 1903) also read/listen to:

disgusting, proven fake!! Unbelievable the horrors and brutally vicious events perpetrated, that are justified by this faker y, which by the way was the purpose of it.

So lets start by hearing the undeniable proof that will make the discussion of the actual contents entirely obsolete. I bet you have to do some actual research (not your own but still) first, but I am all ears.

By the way, I have read the "Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavel et Montesquieu ou la politique de Machiavel au XIXe siècle" as part of my own research.

I have to admit it is rather astonishing the amount of books and articles that have been written the last 100 years in order to debunk the Protocols. What was the saying of Shakespeares Queen Gertrude...?

Don't come saying you don't believe in conspiracies. You believe in a conspiracy against the Jews. I believe in a conspiracy against ALL people, including Jews (Ether 8:25).

[gclayjr]

hogmeister

You haven't provided a single reasoned and researched argument yet. Instead throwing labels and insults like a raving lunatic.

I know that like so many anti-Semetic conspiracy theorists, you think that making an assertion makes it true. Of course like the rest of your disgusting remarks, it is completely unfounded.

What started this thread, was that I decided to start to read actually what was contained in the Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion, rather than just go on what people said was in it. I did this because I recently read a biography on Raoul Wallenburg, in my opinion, the greatest hero of WW2, and perhaps of the 20th century. In this biography, it noted that Hitler, Eichmann and so many others used it as a basis for their justification for their "Final Solution" to the Jewish problem.

Nazi party ideologue Alfred Rosenberg introduced Hitler to the Protocols during the early 1920s, as Hitler was developing his worldview. Hitler referred to the Protocols in some of his early political speeches, and, throughout his career, he exploited the myth that "Jewish-Bolshevists" were conspiring to control the world.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10007058

In the reading that I did, before becoming too disgusted to continue, I discovered that so much of the text of the Protocols, resemble the stuff promoted by you conspiracy theorists (see first posts). Hence the title of this thread. After posting the fact that I noticed such similarities between the Protocols, used by Hitler to justify killing Jews, and stuff promoted by conspiracy folks here, I expected many of you conspiracy folks to be equally disgusted, and to boldly distance themselves from this stuff. Instead I get from larsonb, an unreasoned argument limply accusing me, without taking any strong stand against this filth.

Ah George. Forever attracted to the simple, facile answer.

Then I got several other such weak attacks from other well known conspiracy folks here on this board, with no logic, and only vaguely distancing themselves by stating that they don't believe ALL conspiracy literature.

then azalea.rubicon starts a thread named "Jew/Israel the most wicked nation in the world?" and Sandman45 posts

I recommend watching the documentary “The Greatest Story Never Told”

A documentary using a play on Christian terminology to portray Adolf Hitler as the great hero of the world.

Again I point this out and try to get Conspiracy folks on the board to distance themselves from this hateful crap instead I get stuff like

What do you suppose was taught among the Lamanites for generations about the Nephites and their leaders, such as Mormon and his son Moroni? Do you think there could have possibly been any parallels of the views held today of leaders such as Adolf Hitler? Victors (re)write history. Please stop with the anti Semitic nonsense anytime Israel and it's supporters are called out for their crimes or exposed as frauds.

from Sirius

and

People forget that a day is coming when false Jews will be shown that they worship in the 'synagogue of Satan'.

from Kingdom of Zion

I challenge several vocal conspiracy folks on the board to distance themselves from this, and All I get back is either the sound of crickets in the night or vague attacks on me.

Today Islamic terrorists are embracing this fake document

As popular opposition to Israel spread across the Middle East in the years following its creation in 1948, many Arab governments funded new printings of the Protocols and taught them in their schools as historical fact. They have been accepted as such by many Islamist organizations, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. A 2005 report by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center found that Arabic editions issued in the Middle East were being sold as far away as London.[2] There are at least nine different Arabic translations of the Protocols and more editions than in any other language including German.[3] The Protocols also figure prominently in the antisemitic propaganda distributed internationally by the Arab countries and have spread to other Muslim countries, such as Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempor ... rs_of_Zion

So unfortunately, this is not just something that can be used to justify wild Jewish conspiracies by harmless conspiracy folks ranting on the Internet in their basement, but is actually an evil document used by many truly evil groups to promote terrorism, mayhem and death

Regards,

George Clay

[Hogmeister]

hogmeister

You haven't provided a single reasoned and researched argument yet. Instead throwing labels and insults like a raving lunatic.

I know that like so many anti-Semetic conspiracy theorists, you think that making an assertion makes it true. Of course like the rest of your disgusting remarks, it is completely unfounded.

Making another glaring assertion and throwing another insult.

What started this thread, was that I decided to start to read actually what was contained in the Protocols of the (Learned) Elders of Zion, rather than just go on what people said was in it. I did this because I recently read a biography on Raoul Wallenburg, in my opinion, the greatest hero of WW2, and perhaps of the 20th century. In this biography, it noted that Hitler, Eichmann and so many others used it as a basis for their justification for their "Final Solution" to the Jewish problem.

So you discovered the Swedish hero Raoul Wallenberg. Great for you. He was a Swede like myself and probably did a lot of good while the rest of his family profited by doing banking business with the German government during the war. The Wallenberg family is still the most prominent of the banking dynasties in Sweden.

Nazi party ideologue Alfred Rosenberg introduced Hitler to the Protocols during the early 1920s, as Hitler was developing his worldview. Hitler referred to the Protocols in some of his early political speeches, and, throughout his career, he exploited the myth that "Jewish-Bolshevists" were conspiring to control the world.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10007058

I will not argue against this although there is a lot more to be said about Hitlers rise to power. At least there might be some explanation to his madness. I am sorry the Protocols (and other documents) makes history a bit grayer for you, but rest assured Hitler and the other terrorists are still bad dudes (as are many in your own terrorist government).

In the reading that I did, before becoming too disgusted to continue, I discovered that so much of the text of the Protocols, resemble the stuff promoted by you conspiracy theorists (see first posts). Hence the title of this thread. After posting the fact that I noticed such similarities between the Protocols, used by Hitler to justify killing Jews, and stuff promoted by conspiracy folks here, I expected many of you conspiracy folks to be equally disgusted, and to boldly distance themselves from this stuff. Instead I get from larsonb, an unreasoned argument limply accusing me, without taking any strong stand against this filth.

So you admit you haven't even read the whole text. One of the most written about texts in history and apparently the basis for insulting your fellow man in the most despicable way. The text is not even that long. The content of the Protocols are proven as history unfolds and provides the proof (more history means more proof but to see that you have to actually read the text).

Of course there are links, duh. But do that make all of us realists Hitlers and Jew-haters? You are despicable in your ignorant insults.

Ah George. Forever attracted to the simple, facile answer.

Then I got several other such weak attacks from other well known conspiracy folks here on this board, with no logic, and only vaguely distancing themselves by stating that they don't believe ALL conspiracy literature.

To infer that we must believe all confusing and deranged conspiracy theories ever held is as ridiculus as it gets and another insult. There is a lot of confusion in modern Babylon (FYI Babylon = Babel in Hebrew and means confusion).

then azalea.rubicon starts a thread named "Jew/Israel the most wicked nation in the world?" and Sandman45 posts

I recommend watching the documentary “The Greatest Story Never Told”

A documentary using a play on Christian terminology to portray Adolf Hitler as the great hero of the world.

Again, HITLER IS NOT A HERO! Is it impossible for you to carry two thoughts/concepts in your mind at the same time?


Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

[gclayjr]

Hogmeister,

Again, HITLER IS NOT A HERO! Is it impossible to carry two thoughts in your mind at the same time?

While not the most vigorous denunciation, I will say that it is more than I have received from others.

So if you agree with Hitler, ISIS, Hezbolla and others, that a Hidden Jewish cabal is behind all of this

Quotes from the Protocols

WHO ARE THE ELDERS?
This is a secret which has not been revealed. They are the Hidden Hand. They are not the "Board of Deputies" (the Jewish Parliament in England) or the "Universal Israelite Alliance" which sits in Paris. But the late Walter Rathenau of the Allgemeiner Electricitaets Gesellschaft has thrown a little light on the subject and doubtless he was in possession of their names, being, in all likelihood, one of the chief leaders himself. Writing in the WIENER FREIE PRESSE, December 24, 1912, he said:
"Three hundred men, each of whom knows all the others, govern the fate of the European continent, and they elect their successors from their entourage."
In the year 1844, on the eve of the Jewish Revolution of 1848, Benjamin Disraeli, whose real name was Israel, and who was a "damped," or baptized Jew, published his novel, CONINGSBY, in which occurs this ominous passage:
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."
And he went on to show that these personages were all Jews.
Now that Providence has brought to the light of day these secret Protocols all men may clearly see the hidden personages specified by Disraeli at work "behind the scenes" of all the Governments. This revelation entails on all peoples the grave responsibility of examining and revising AU FOND their attitude towards the Race and Nation which boasts of its survival over all Empires.

Protocol III opens with a reference to the Symbolic Snake of Judaism. In his Epilogue to the 1905 Edition of the Protocols, Nilus gives the following interesting account of this symbol:

According to the records of secret Jewish Zionism, Solomon and other Jewish learned men already, in 929 B.C., thought out a scheme in theory for a peaceful conquest of the whole universe by Zion. As history developed, this scheme was worked out in detail and completed by men who were subsequently initiated in this question. These learned men decided by peaceful means to conquer the world for Zion with the slyness of the Symbolic Snake, whose head was to represent those who have been initiated into the plans of the Jewish administration, and the body of the Snake to represent the Jewish people - the administration was always kept secret, EVEN FROM THE JEWISH NATION ITSELF. As this Snake penetrated into the hearts of the nations which it encountered it undermined and devoured all the non-Jewish power of these States.

When we come into our kingdom it will be undesirable for us that there should exist any other religion than ours of the One God with whom our destiny is bound up by our position as the Chosen People and through whom our same destiny is united with the destinies of the world. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief.

Now apparently, while you do agree with Hitler, Hezbolla, ISSI and other terrorists, that this is a true document representing a great Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, you do not agree that the best solution to problem is to kill all Jews. I congratulate you for that level of discretion.

So if you don't agree in killing all Jews, what would your plan to defeat them, other than to simply sit in your basement and level accusations?

Regards,

George Clay

[Hogmeister]

Hogmeister,

Again, HITLER IS NOT A HERO! Is it impossible to carry two thoughts in your mind at the same time?

While not the most vigorous denunciation, I will say that it is more than I have received from others.

So if you agree with Hitler, ISIS, Hezbolla and others, that a Hidden Jewish cabal is behind all of this

Quotes from the Protocols

WHO ARE THE ELDERS?
This is a secret which has not been revealed. They are the Hidden Hand. They are not the "Board of Deputies" (the Jewish Parliament in England) or the "Universal Israelite Alliance" which sits in Paris. But the late Walter Rathenau of the Allgemeiner Electricitaets Gesellschaft has thrown a little light on the subject and doubtless he was in possession of their names, being, in all likelihood, one of the chief leaders himself. Writing in the WIENER FREIE PRESSE, December 24, 1912, he said:
"Three hundred men, each of whom knows all the others, govern the fate of the European continent, and they elect their successors from their entourage."
In the year 1844, on the eve of the Jewish Revolution of 1848, Benjamin Disraeli, whose real name was Israel, and who was a "damped," or baptized Jew, published his novel, CONINGSBY, in which occurs this ominous passage:
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."
And he went on to show that these personages were all Jews.
Now that Providence has brought to the light of day these secret Protocols all men may clearly see the hidden personages specified by Disraeli at work "behind the scenes" of all the Governments. This revelation entails on all peoples the grave responsibility of examining and revising AU FOND their attitude towards the Race and Nation which boasts of its survival over all Empires.

Protocol III opens with a reference to the Symbolic Snake of Judaism. In his Epilogue to the 1905 Edition of the Protocols, Nilus gives the following interesting account of this symbol:

According to the records of secret Jewish Zionism, Solomon and other Jewish learned men already, in 929 B.C., thought out a scheme in theory for a peaceful conquest of the whole universe by Zion. As history developed, this scheme was worked out in detail and completed by men who were subsequently initiated in this question. These learned men decided by peaceful means to conquer the world for Zion with the slyness of the Symbolic Snake, whose head was to represent those who have been initiated into the plans of the Jewish administration, and the body of the Snake to represent the Jewish people - the administration was always kept secret, EVEN FROM THE JEWISH NATION ITSELF. As this Snake penetrated into the hearts of the nations which it encountered it undermined and devoured all the non-Jewish power of these States.

When we come into our kingdom it will be undesirable for us that there should exist any other religion than ours of the One God with whom our destiny is bound up by our position as the Chosen People and through whom our same destiny is united with the destinies of the world. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief.

Now apparently, while you do agree with Hitler, Hezbolla, ISSI and other terrorists, that this is a true document representing a great Jewish conspiracy to take over the world, you do not agree that the best solution to problem is to kill all Jews. I congratulate you for that level of discretion.

So if you don't agree in killing all Jews, what would your plan to defeat them, other than to simply sit in your basement and level accusations?

Regards,

George Clay

Updated my previous response see above.

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Knowledge and truth/light will defeat them. It’s that simple. The Jews are just as deceived as the rest of the nations in general.

[gclayjr]

hogmeister,

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Either you have not been reading my posts over time, or you have the same reading comprehension problem I observed, by so may of your fellow conspiracy folks.

I do believe in secret combinations. I don't believe that everything called a secret combination is true. I think that creating fake secret combinations distracts and harms the credibility of those who do believe in secret combinations. In fact, I am beginning to believe that their may be a secret combination of trying to discredit those who are trying to warn people by inventing ridiculous stories about ridiculous "secret" combinations to discredit all efforts to reveal true evil in this world.

And you guys are falling for it. I guess that is why I am a lone watchman on the wall who is continuously amazed at how rigidly you guys stick together, no matter how evil or false the story. You think you wash yourselves with vague insinuations like "I don't agree with all conspiracy theories" or "HITLER IS NOT A HERO", but embrace the vipers and snakes among you, because I guess all you conspiracy folks need to stick together against us unenlightened "Sheeple".

Regards,

George Clay

PS: What is your LOGICAL, well thought, out response to my direct quotes from "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?

[Hogmeister]

hogmeister,

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Either you have not been reading my posts over time, or you have the same reading comprehension problem I observed, by so may of your fellow conspiracy folks.

I do believe in secret combinations. I don't believe that everything called a secret combination is true. I think that creating fake secret combinations distracts and harms the credibility of those who do believe in secret combinations. In fact, I am beginning to believe that their may be a secret combination of trying to discredit those who are trying to warn people by inventing ridiculous stories about ridiculous "secret" combinations to discredit all efforts to reveal true evil in this world.

And you guys are falling for it. I guess that is why I am a lone watchman on the wall who is continuously amazed at how rigidly you guys stick together, no matter how evil or false the story. You think you wash yourselves with vague insinuations like "I don't agree with all conspiracy theories" or "HITLER IS NOT A HERO", but embrace the vipers and snakes among you, because I guess all you conspiracy folks need to stick together against us unenlightened "Sheeple".

Regards,

George Clay

Your continous ignorant insults miss their mark. A secret combination that will not defend itself by every availiable means is a ridiculus notion. History is a lot grayer than you naively think. So you believe that the prophet, seer and revelator Ezra Taft Benson is an lds version of Hitler? I see him as the most informed of all our latter day prophets regarding the work of Satan in the last days.

Who created/funded the terrorists the globalists so desperately need to move the agenda? The terrorists you list are evil out in the open but I promise you there is evil in hidden places as well.

Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

[larsenb]

hogmeister,

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Either you have not been reading my posts over time, or you have the same reading comprehension problem I observed, by so may of your fellow conspiracy folks.

I do believe in secret combinations. I don't believe that everything called a secret combination is true. I think that creating fake secret combinations distracts and harms the credibility of those who do believe in secret combinations. In fact, I am beginning to believe that their may be a secret combination of trying to discredit those who are trying to warn people by inventing ridiculous stories about ridiculous "secret" combinations to discredit all efforts to reveal true evil in this world.

And you guys are falling for it. I guess that is why I am a lone watchman on the wall who is continuously amazed at how rigidly you guys stick together, no matter how evil or false the story. You think you wash yourselves with vague insinuations like "I don't agree with all conspiracy theories" or "HITLER IS NOT A HERO", but embrace the vipers and snakes among you, because I guess all you conspiracy folks need to stick together against us unenlightened "Sheeple".

Regards,

George Clay

Your continous ignorant insults miss their mark. A secret combination that will not defend itself by every availiable means is a ridiculus notion. History is a lot grayer than you naively think. So you believe that the prophet, seer and revelator Ezra Taft Benson is an lds version of Hitler? I see him as the most informed of all our latter day profets regarding the work of Satan in the last days.

Who created/funded the terrorists the globalists so desperately need to move the agenda? The terrorists you list are evil out in the open but I promise you there is evil in hidden places as well.

Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Thanks, Hogmeister. You've hit on many points I would bring up with George, but I've seen his posts long enough to realize it is most likely a waste of time. I never get the sense that he is open to real dialogue. I do get the sense he posts on this subject to beat the drum of his particular viewpoint, which he seems to have a death-grip on.

[gclayjr]

Hogmeister,

Who created/funded the terrorists the globalists so desperately need to move the agenda? The terrorists you list are evil out in the open but I promise you there is evil in hidden places as well.

yes, and some of them are spreading lies and calling them conspiracies.

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

hogmeister,

What to do against the secret combination? Ether 8:26

Either you have not been reading my posts over time, or you have the same reading comprehension problem I observed, by so may of your fellow conspiracy folks.

I do believe in secret combinations. I don't believe that everything called a secret combination is true. I think that creating fake secret combinations distracts and harms the credibility of those who do believe in secret combinations. In fact, I am beginning to believe that their may be a secret combination of trying to discredit those who are trying to warn people by inventing ridiculous stories about ridiculous "secret" combinations to discredit all efforts to reveal true evil in this world.

And you guys are falling for it. I guess that is why I am a lone watchman on the wall who is continuously amazed at how rigidly you guys stick together, no matter how evil or false the story. You think you wash yourselves with vague insinuations like "I don't agree with all conspiracy theories" or "HITLER IS NOT A HERO", but embrace the vipers and snakes among you, because I guess all you conspiracy folks need to stick together against us unenlightened "Sheeple".

Regards,

George Clay

Your continous ignorant insults miss their mark. A secret combination that will not defend itself by every availiable means is a ridiculus notion. History is a lot grayer than you naively think. So you believe that the prophet, seer and revelator Ezra Taft Benson is an lds version of Hitler? I see him as the most informed of all our latter day profets regarding the work of Satan in the last days.

Who created/funded the terrorists the globalists so desperately need to move the agenda? The terrorists you list are evil out in the open but I promise you there is evil in hidden places as well.

Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Thanks Hoglund. You've hit on many points I would like to raise with George, but I've never seen George deviate one iota from his point-of-view in all the posts he's floated on this topic. This has led me to the strong suspicion that he is not open to dialogue on this important topic, but will continually bait people to respond to his narrow view, so he can flail them with his. He appears to have a death grip on it.

[gclayjr]

hoglund, larsonb

I am now beginning to understand you guys even more. The reason why none of you will take a firm stand on such filth as Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or Hitler, and Nazis, is because we have a completely different idea of what agreeing with some conspiracies and disagreeing with others means.

I agree that there is a deep state within our government conspiring to bend things to their will. I disagree that Jews throughout history have been plotting the overthrow of the world.

While you guys agree that such disgusting things as described in the Protocols, is a true plot, you may disagree on methods used by Hitler or Islamic terrorists to overthrow this grand conspiracy, but you generally agree with the conspiracies that he blamed for Germany's woes .

So if I understand correctly, the reason why I can't get any kind of strong, clear rejection of either the Protocols, or Hitler from you guys, is that you agree that there is some fundamental correctness in their source beliefs, and if we understood that, then Hitler, and Nazism, while bad, is more of a nuanced issue, because they were fighting against truly evil Zionist plots. Just doing it wrong.

Yea, I have been wasting my time all these years. We have absolutely no common ground that we can come together on.

Thanks for clarifying that. We will never come together.

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

hoglund, larsonb

I am now beginning to understand you guys even more. The reason why none of you will take a firm stand on such filth as Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or Hitler, and Nazis, is because we have a completely different idea of what agreeing with some conspiracies and disagreeing with others means.

I agree that there is a deep state within our government conspiring to bend things to their will. I disagree that Jews throughout history have been plotting the overthrow of the world.

While you guys agree that such disgusting things as described in the Protocols, is a true plot, you may disagree on methods used by Hitler or Islamic terrorists to overthrow this grand conspiracy, but you generally agree with the conspiracies that he blamed for Germany's woes .

So if I understand correctly, the reason why I can't get any kind of strong, clear rejection of either the Protocols, or Hitler from you guys, is that you agree that there is some fundamental correctness in their source beliefs, and if we understood that, then Hitler, and Nazism, while bad, is more of a nuanced issue, because they were fighting against truly evil Zionist plots. Just doing it wrong.

Yea, I have been wasting my time all these years. We have absolutely no common ground that we can come together on.

Thanks for clarifying that. We will never come together.

Regards,

George Clay

Here's the problem I have w/your approach. First, where you say "I disagree that Jews through history have been plotting the overthrow of the world", is your use of 'Jews', your use of 'through history' and finally, your use of the phrase 'overthrow of the world'. This usage is simply too general and too black-and-white. It is fruitless to enter into a discussion with someone using this kind of approach.

The situation is much more complex and nuanced than I think you would want to handle. And I don't see that you've covered pertinent sources on these issues or know anything about them. You seem to be stuck with your sensitivity to any criticism directed toward anyone w/a modicum of Jewish ancestry.

Based on this assessment, yes, we don't have much common ground on these issues. That is why I've said it is a waste of my time to deal with your posts outside of an occasional response, such as this one. You come across as too combative, too defended and too wedded to your own view.

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

[gclayjr]

larsenb,

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

I generally agree with the things you have noted above. You do exaggerate. I am not Jewish, and my issue isn't so much supporting anybody with a drop of Jewish blood, as with not believing in the concept of a grand conspiracy over the centuries, that just coincidentally happens to be perpetrated by Jews, thus justifying blaming (and for some hating) them as a group or class, rather than as simply specific individuals some of whom may be Jewish and some not. Thus the fact that they are Jewish would be irrelevant.

I have a relative named Larson. I apologize for my misspelling of Larsen. I meant no disrespect. I don't even know the difference in ethnicity between Larson and Larsen, so it was not intentional.

Regards,

George Clay

[larsenb]

larsenb,

Even your continued use of 'larsonb' as my screen name, is at least a slight indication of your attitude.

I generally agree with the things you have noted above. You do exaggerate. I am not Jewish, and my issue isn't so much supporting anybody with a drop of Jewish blood, as with not believing in the concept of a grand conspiracy over the centuries, that just coincidentally happens to be perpetrated by Jews, thus justifying blaming (and for some hating) them as a group or class, rather than as simply specific individuals some of whom may be Jewish and some not. Thus the fact that they are Jewish would be irrelevant.

I have a relative named Larson. I apologize for my misspelling of Larsen. I meant no disrespect. I don't even know the difference in ethnicity between Larson and Larsen, so it was not intentional.

Regards,

George Clay

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

[gclayjr]

larsenb, Samuel Höglund

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

So you discovered the Swedish hero Raoul Wallenberg. Great for you. He was a Swede like myself and probably did a lot of good while the rest

...Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Hitler made references to an "Aryan Race" founding a superior type of humanity. The purest stock of Aryans according to Nazi ideology was the Nordic people of Germany, England, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway.[1] The Nazis claimed that Germanic people specifically represented a southern branch of the Aryan-Nordic population

and I agree all Aryans also shouldn't be assumed to be Nazis either.

The more you write the more I understand.


Regards

George Clay

[larsenb]

larsenb, Samuel Höglund

I would never see you as being Jewish. And it's a given that hating an entire people for what a small segment of that group may have done or is doing, is wrong . . . even stupid. No argument there. Ask Italians who are up against being condemned for what the Italian Mafia has done and is doing. But I'm not aware of anybody on this board who is doing that type of thing.

Larson is mainly Swedish. The Larsen form is from the Danish and Norwegian.

So you discovered the Swedish hero Raoul Wallenberg. Great for you. He was a Swede like myself and probably did a lot of good while the rest

...Sincerely,

Samuel Höglund

Hitler made references to an "Aryan Race" founding a superior type of humanity. The purest stock of Aryans according to Nazi ideology was the Nordic people of Germany, England, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway.[1] The Nazis claimed that Germanic people specifically represented a southern branch of the Aryan-Nordic population

and I agree all Aryans also shouldn't be assumed to be Nazis either.

The more you write the more I understand.

Regards

George Clay

It's always nice to be understood. Thanks.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Gclayjr I'm impressed at your humbleness and diligence in seeking to look at both sides empirically. Then apologizing for your hard nosed stubbornness!! We're glad to have you aboard the conspiracy wagon and here is your official tin foil hat you're going to need it.

[gclayjr]

Son-of-liberty,

Gclayjr I'm impressed at your humbleness and diligence in seeking to look at both sides empirically. Then apologizing for your hard nosed stubbornness!! We're glad to have you aboard the conspiracy wagon and here is your official tin foil hat you're going to need it.

I would like to think of myself as humble and diligent in seeking to look at both sides. However, I don't want to let you believe this under false assumptions. You missed my point.

While I do believe in conspiracies, I do not believe in grand conspiracies over the ages where membership is based upon birth into a family, race, or ethnic group. I have long believed that these specific ridiculous conspiracy theories distract from real conspiracies and therefor do more to distract from discovery true conspiracies, than help.

As an example, I used a well known forgery called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" which describes a fake conspiracy of Jewish leaders (bankers) to take over the world, and a document promoted earlier in this thread called "The Greatest story never told", which promotes Adolf Hitler as a misunderstood hero, who is more Christ like than villain as vicious hateful lies. These conspiracy guys seemed to promote that the protocols was not really a forgery, but the evidence of it being a forgery was really part of the conspiracy, and that the situation in Germany with Hitler, was complicated, so considering him evil was too simplistic.

Therefor when I stated that I thought that it was hateful and anti-semitic to believe that people were evil conspirators, because they were Jewish, Bankers, of the family Rothschild, or whatever. Larsenb, graciously (sarcasm) responded that they didn't believe that all Jews were conspirators.

So since Larsenb had self identified himself as Danish, and Hoglund as Swedish, both of the most pure of the Aryan race which is the basis of Nazism, a hateful white supremacist group who used the same documents, and arguments to promote their hateful "final solution" to the Jewish problem. I stated that just as they didn't believe ALL Jews were conspiring to take over the world, I said that I don't believe that all Aryans are Nazis.

So I'm not sure that my message truly got through, but I was indicating that just as it was hateful and condescending to state that they allowed for exceptions and that not every Jew was in the conspiracy, then it was just as hateful and condescending to state that not every Aryan (who believes in a grand Jewish conspiracy) was a Nazi.

I guess the fact that that this fell on deaf ears, means that they don't see how hateful it is to blame Jews for conspiring to take over the world even if they are willing to allow for the idea that maybe some Jews are not actually involved in that conspiracy.

Regards,

George Clay

[Son-of-Liberty]

Hmmm I think their is some miscommunication going on. I don't believe and I don't believe that Larsonb although I Can't necessarily speak for him but following the forum for the last few years I wouldn't say he's like a Jewish xenophobe and neither am I neither are the vast majority of truthers/conspiracy theorists. I believe You're delving too much into the superficial aspect of the conspiracies and only just looking at the surface you're hesitant to go deeper. Why I'm assuming the same reason myself and many others were slow and hesitant to open our minds to these possibilities/evidence. Others will label you crazy stereotype you judge you and since you've been on the opposite side of the spectrum for so lon it's a bit harder to break down those mental barriers. Many conspiracies "CONSPIRACIST THEORISTS" dont necessarily all embrace I noticed you like to categorize and label and group us all into one difintive category. There's those who. Believe the lizard alien belief myself I think this is propagated by the CIA or other intelligence agency's to discredit truth in some conspiracy circles much how you lump us all together so does most of society. In the Book of Mormon they told of grand conspiracies since the beginning of time that's been handed down through the ages to get gain power and glory it was written for our day why would our advancements and the future make grand conspiracies impossible it doesn't. It's not like the Gadiantons went around flaunting their plans not until they had open power over and submission of the people. In parallel to today their is truth and lies good and evil. The adversary seeks to discredit truth and mush lies with truth to discredit and sway people from wading through the poop to find the pearls of wisdom. Many people believe in God yet many think we're crazy much the same some people who are Christians think that the power of satan on this earth is a fairy tale and there are no spirits etc only what we see. This is another grand misconception the satanic cabal worships just as devotedly as us Mormons/Christians disciples of Christ do. Just as we pray to the father and make sacrifices we are blessed. On the other spectrum satanist make literal sacrifice or torture etc and make offerings to satan to get evil blessings fame money fortune etc. Here's a conspiracy for you but if you delve deeper you will notice scary realities if you open your mind this ones easy. The entertainment industry is full of subliminal messaging sports Hollywood music all of these industries are powered by satan and the love of mammon and worship of it. These industries have a direct impact through advertising and because it's entertaining to our youth and the children of God today this has brought about the degradation of society. Here's one for you musicians are nothing more than magicians witches/wizards casting spells on the masses en masse through brain washing techniques of repetiveness. When you sign your name on the line you sell out for fame and fortune but you allow yourself to become a slave to the money sound like anyone we know? Both here in this realm and maybe someone who was evicted from heaven? Hollywood/ Music execs at the highest level worship satan and cast spells and stuff over master copies of CDs etc to thrall the masses. Washington DC is influenced by witchcraft since its founding. Here is another conspiracy that was uncovered to be true pedofilia and rape culture in Hollywood everyone's talked about it for years but with pizzagate and other revelations the tip of the iceberg is clear as day for people to delve into and witness for themselves most won't because of the brilliance of media labeling something pizzagate this screams conspiracy and lies despite it being truthful. These manipulators made pacts with their lives to not reveal these secrets just as in the Book of Mormon. That's why they are so well concealed. It seems crazy but if you open your mind to anything is possible and to use true discernment not putting up walls before you have a chance to delve deeper you will always have these prejudices that are unwarranted against people who seek truth and label them because of a few select fringe groups who are truly whackos much like the rest of society I.E. the great and spacious building pointing laughing at the people trying to stay with the rod and choose and follow truth and righteousness. I could go on for a ever but unless you actually look up some of these things you openly dismiss with an open mind and consider just the possibilities and possible implications and realities if any or all or some of these things are true it would viscerally change your outlook on the world and things. Again I would love to expand as would others but I thought you were being sincere but i think you were just using a bait tactic to try and argue again against the tin foil hat wearers. We would all love to openly talk of these things to you but we're talking past you or to a wall because you are so set in your ways. Don't think for a second many of us also weren't there and this wasn't as hard for us to come to terms with we understand but until your ready to take two steps back look at the big picture look into weird mumbo jumbo that's uncomfortable satanic pedofilia at the highest levels of Power government media entertainment world leaders things if this nature we can't openly talk to you about these things. Because obviously again this post was misleading and a bait tactic to push against "Conspiracy Theorists" you're not openly mocking us your relatively respectful but it's kind of condescending to say what you posted then go lumping us all together as Jew haters and saying all Jews since the beginning of time are guilty of this grand conspiracy i don't think anyone thinks that. It's a very small relative be miniority of people the 1% or less than that to be precise. The rest of society upholds these guys through the system of the beast and manipulation through entertainment media and the legal system which is built to protect the rich and powerful.

[Son-of-Liberty]

Truth is truth is doesn't need to be rubber stamped by those who superficially propagate to advocate for the truth and have sources cited or it's untrue or unproven. Just as we don't need to prove god is real or exists to atheists or others we know it to be true that's all that matters there will not be a rubber stamp on this until Christs return this is something you can take to the bank. Again not everything on YouTube is correct but their is some good content there and in other places on the World Wide Web once you wade through the crap and objectively and empirically with an eye for truth seek to find and locate things you can see and understand without some superficial government or scientist or mthmstician or historian to tell you it's true if this was the case then why are you a Christian or Mormon for that matter...

[gclayjr]

Son-of-Libertuy

I am not accusing you or larsenb of xenophobia, or even anti-antisemitism. I am accusing you of spreading the same lies that the anti-Semites do to justify their anti-antisemitism.

Although you guys admit that you have no solution for overcoming those "Jewish" Zionists who are plotting to take over the world, I do accept that you do consider it evil to hate and kill all Jews.

The problem is that you don't understand that it is also evil to spread the anti-semitic lies used by these guys to justify hating and killing Jews.

Regards,

George Clay

[gclayjr]

Isn't it interesting that those of you who promote eternal Zionist, Jewish Banker, Illuminati, Rothschild conspiracies, so often find it necessary, to testify that despite the anti-semitic roots of these conspiracies, you and you are sure your fellow conspiracy theorists are not at heart anti-Semites. While those of us who do not promote such anti-semitic ideas have no need to make such protestations, because we can let our words and actions speak for themselves.

Regards,

George Clay