The sisters and babies...

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gardener4life
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The sisters and babies...

Post by gardener4life »

You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.

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Elizabeth
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Elizabeth »

Just be careful whom you marry ;)

MMbelieve
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by MMbelieve »

it seems like the first part of what you were saying was about babies and how people cherish the precious little ones but then you go into something about husbands checking out after the baby comes and then you start into how women are doing this to the men and the behavior needs to stop...im not quite sure what needs to stop, the ogling over new babies, the husband checking out or the wife doing...something to diminish her husband?

simpleton
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Post by simpleton »

It is one confusing post...

Crackers
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Post by Crackers »

My goodness, that is a sad world you find yourself in. :(

Rand
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Rand »

I am only trying to clarify, not comment. I think she is saying that men get pushed into the background as soon as babies come on the scene, and she feels the sisters shouldn't do that.
At least that's how I read it.

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cyclOps
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by cyclOps »

Rand wrote: December 15th, 2017, 9:58 pm I am only trying to clarify, not comment. I think she is saying that men get pushed into the background as soon as babies come on the scene, and she feels the sisters shouldn't do that.
At least that's how I read it.
That’s how I read it too, and I disagree with that. That’s not how life really is. I don’t see it.

MMbelieve
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by MMbelieve »

If the men feel they are pushed out then I would say he is not adjusting to the new family dynamics. A new baby changes things. Mom has a new body to care for and is usually quite overwhelmed, if the man feels left out then he's not engaged and needs to find ways to get involved not waiting for her to finish everything so she can then tend to him.

I don't think it's fair to give a woman the greatest life change (a baby) then expect her to be the same as she was before she had the baby.

Again, if men check out mentally and emotionally after a baby comes then he has made an error not her. That is a time where he is needed more, checking out is a selfish thing to do.

A woman checking out after husband has a life change isint good, seems selfish right? No different

Michelle
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Michelle »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.
I think this says it all:
I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married.
And I am not trying to be mean or exclusive.

Perspectives change with experience. I can't say I've never seen what you describe,
I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid.
but I think it is a lot more rare than you think.

There is a different love between a spouse and spouse versus a parent and child, and there should be. The relationship with the spouse encompasses much of the love one feels for their child in terms of familiarity and friendship, but it is more because it also contains the sexual love and procreative power.

To be blunt, you are seeing their public relationships, not their private interactions. As such, you are only getting one part of the picture. Combine that with the reality that a child actually does NEED certain attentions for survival that are different from what the husband needs from the wife. While the husband has very different NEEDS from his wife for his emotional and mental survival. I should hope you only see the smallest part of those needs being met in the form of appropriate physical expressions of affection. I don't see why you think you know what happens behind closed doors though and I don't just mean sexually, but that would definitely be included in those needs.

Just an example: I can almost guarantee that you have not seen a wife in public frequently comfort her emotionally distressed husband about any burden he carries: work, providing for the family, spiritual issues, financial concerns, etc. But it happens, often,usually in private. I can almost guarantee that you won't see it either. These emotional and mental needs being met are not public expressions for a reason.

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David13
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by David13 »

Well I'm not sure if gardener4life is a person of the male or female persuasion. But it may not make a difference.
I have seen that which is spoken of.
It is somewhat common.
Man and woman get together, and become very involved with each other. Their main center of attention is no longer their family and friends, but each other.
Then the baby arrives.

It is possible for the man to feel left out when the woman, and maybe all of her family become so absorbed by the baby, and neglect the man, the father, the other one half of the equation.

It's inevitable to some extent.

I have been married, but we did not have children. So I didn't have to deal with this, but it will be an issue for any married couple.

It is not unusual at all to see a married couple with children get a baby sitter so they can have a "date" or mom and dad's night out together, alone, without the kids (or the brothers and sisters or cousins. Or not.) As maybe it can be family, but adults only.

I knew a couple in my previous ward and they spoke of their monthly date, just mom and dad, without the 4 kids. And how they took joy in a very economical "date".

So gardener4life, male or female is prior to marriage recognizing this issue, and hopefully will come to ways to deal with it ahead of time.

dc

Juliet
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Juliet »

When you are with the right one and she has children, you will be included in everything and loved and needed. If you don't feel that from your wife, then something is wrong. If she replaces you with the baby, then that can be dangerous for the child as well as you. It is very important that the husband and wife get their needs of affection met through each other, and that love flows to the child. If one or the other parent uses the child as an emotional teddy bear, that child is going to be harmed.

In fact, a lot of addictions especially sexual addictions can be traced back to what is termed "emotional incest". It is very detrimental for either parent to be getting their needs of affection met through the child instead of the spouse.

Why would a woman do that? Perhaps she forgets the husband because of her pride, she wants to make sure she is a good enough mother. She just needs to be reminded that she doesn't have to be perfect or put on a show. She just has to love you. If a man will tend to his wife's needs and serve her, make sure she gets time to sleep, eat and rest; instead of heaping expectations on her, then it will help her bond to him and accept herself, and be a better mother to the baby. But if she feels unacceptable and she has to meet expectations in order to be loved by her husband, then she may focus more on doing, and since a woman's work is never done, she may unconsciously push the relationship with the husband to the back of the to do list. I see many women who care sooo much about the stupidest things, having perfect socks to go with the child's dress, or having all the spots on the walls clean. Are they so success-driven because they don't feel like they are good enough, so they have to do more and more and more? Husbands, you need to make sure your wife feels like she is good enough in all her imperfections so she doesn't have to be supermom to get her needs of approval met.

It must be hard to be a man, because you are like Jesus. Your job is to serve, serve serve. The greatest joy you will ever find will be in serving your wife. Then, hopefully, she will grow to love you with all of her heart, seeing your unconditional love and service toward her, when she knows you see her imperfections. Then she knows she doesn't have to work to please you, and she can busy herself with just loving you.

You have no idea men, how much we care about what you think of us. So, in our own attempt to prove to you how wonderful we are, we may miss the whole point of being in a relationship, because we are trying sooo hard to please you and be perfect for you. Some kind words when we are at our worst, being told to do less, being helped out around the house, being served and cared for, can make allllllllllllll the difference.

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Sarah
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Sarah »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.
Babies are a shock to the marriage relationship, for sure, but I think if fathers had to experience the same types of physical changes/pain, emotional struggles, lack of sleep, etc. that a new mother experiences, they would have more empathy. Unfortunately men will never feel the same experiences unless they get the chance to "comprehend" it someday.

Bottom line is, we should not be getting married with selfish motives, thinking we are going to get our needs met. We need to marry so we can have children and glorify God in this way. It is a huge sacrifice to bring forth children, (and this is one of God's greatest commandments), but only those who are willing to give up their lives for the Kingdom will be eternal mothers and fathers, husband and wives. Get married so you can learn to serve and be selfless.

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oneClimbs
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by oneClimbs »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.
I'm almost 40 years old and have been married 14 years. I've literally never once seen what you are describing.

MMbelieve
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by MMbelieve »

I believe that there are husbands that check out after the baby is born because they check out, not because the wife has forgotten him or diminished him or anything else. Some men have a hard time adjusting to pregnancy/birth and a new baby taking his wife's attention away from him.

I don't believe it is right or fair to assume that women forget about their husbands when she becomes a mom. A woman becoming a mom builds the bond she has with her husband as they are supposed to share in the joy of their creation together. It gives more meaning to the marriage too.

Women aren't this callous. If a wife does do these things to her husband after a baby, then perhaps the problem was there BEFORE the baby and he likely has diminished her as well.

It's easy to look at marriage as as single person and believe that you would do this or that different and see faults in both people, but once you marry and go through life a bit, you realize that you really had no idea what you were talking about.

I was the only teenager in my seminary class foolish enough to raise their hand when the teacher asked if marriage was easy...hahahahahaha. It's not!

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passionflower
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by passionflower »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.



During pregnancy, oxytocin is released into the mothers bloodstream, later on becoming greatly magnified during labor, delivery, and post partum. Oxytocin is called the "bonding hormone" and causes the kind of behavior you describe in mothers with new babies. Oxytocin literally hijacks the emotions of a new mother, causing her to become what must look like utterly obsessed with her newborn baby. She will focus on that baby to the point of excluding everyone and everything else, including her own husband. This is normal and very important for the physical and emotional survival of a helplessly dependent infant. A baby must believe that they are the center of the universe to their mother or they will not feel secure and go on to achieve normal development. Your mother was this same way with you when you were born. And thank goodness.

This should answer your question about why it seems that the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally when a new baby comes. Without oxytocin, mothers would not bond with babies to the degree necessary to insure they thrive emotionally as well as physically.

Now about women in general treating their husbands like a second fiddle? That's another problem, entirely, and is not related to what happens between a mother and her newborn baby. ( although I can see why someone who has never experienced childbirth would think this was all under the same roof )

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David13
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by David13 »

5tev3 wrote: December 17th, 2017, 11:22 pm
gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.
I'm almost 40 years old and have been married 14 years. I've literally never once seen what you are describing.

You are very fortunate. What is described in the op is a flaw, an aberration. You apparently have a healthy and well balanced marriage.
dc

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David13
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by David13 »

Juliet wrote: December 17th, 2017, 9:46 pm

...

It must be hard to be a man, ...


...

I feel a song coming on. Yes, that's a line in this one :

(Well, woman, not man)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4e-Hd ... JustTammy1

And who can tell me what the guy introducing her is known as?
dc

As far as I'm concerned one of the greatest singers and one of the greatest songs ever written. It seems like she is a weak woman singing that song, but really she is the strongest.

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Alaris
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Alaris »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.
Great post and some great replies. The emasculation of men creeps into LDS society just as the objectification (isn't that a word? My phone says no) of women does. These are but two arrows in the quiver of the adversary.

I appreciated dcs and passionflowers posts - especially the bit about oxytocin. I believe there may be an eternal symbol at play.

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Elizabeth
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Elizabeth »

intro by The Possum!
Impressive talent and good looking as well ... Tammy Wynette, the Jones Boys, Ron Burgundy, Sonny Curtis … just great.
David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 8:15 pm
Juliet wrote: December 17th, 2017, 9:46 pm ...
It must be hard to be a man, ...
...
I feel a song coming on. Yes, that's a line in this one :

(Well, woman, not man)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc4e-Hd ... JustTammy1

And who can tell me what the guy introducing her is known as?
dc
As far as I'm concerned one of the greatest singers and one of the greatest songs ever written. It seems like she is a weak woman singing that song, but really she is the strongest.

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skmo
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by skmo »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm blah, blah, men suck, no it's women who suck, no, it's the baby's fault, blah, blah.
Boy, it must really suck to live where you do. I mean, I know that Utah really sucks bad, but even Utah isn't as bad as wherever this is you're at.

In all seriousness, though, it sounds like you're capturing snippets of comments made at a wrong time and/or you're seeing things quite a bit out of context. Another possibility is that you may be one of those people others always come to to unload their problems. There are almost always dynamics changes in families over time. Sometimes it is worked out easily, sometimes it is hard, but it's part of life. Everyone needs to make sacrifices for families to work, that's part of having a family.

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oneClimbs
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by oneClimbs »

David13 wrote: December 18th, 2017, 7:56 pm You are very fortunate. What is described in the op is a flaw, an aberration. You apparently have a healthy and well balanced marriage.
dc
It's true that women have a special sense of compassion toward babies, as they should, especially if they have given birth themselves. Men also can feel those same things as it is in our nature to protect and care for the small and helpless. As a statement of fact and not brag, I do happen to have a healthy marriage but I credit that to the gospel principles that have guided our actions. That said, I'm not the only one that has a happy marriage, I think many people do even if they have periodic conflict and struggles.

True the the OP is an aberration but the OP is specifically putting all women under this umbrella:
I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally.
Perhaps that has been this individual's experience that every woman they have ever seen who has had a baby has shunned her husband. I'm curious to know where on earth gardener4life lives where this kind of behavior appears to be the norm. Like I said, I've never seen this behavior before but I've only lived in Texas, Idaho, and Las Vegas, each a very different place.

Crackers
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Crackers »

Gardener, I must say, I was pretty put off by the OP. Stating that 90% of women push their husbands away after a baby is born is just nonsense. This pulled-out-of-the-air number has no meaning except what it represents to you, which is how you perceive what is going on around you. Hyperbole can be interesting or engaging, or can sometimes be used to prove an extreme, but it doesn’t always allow for the most accurate conversation. What you perceive as 90% is 0% for Steve, and may fall anywhere on the spectrum for others. So let’s agree that all we are dealing with is perception. (And maybe it fully is a problem for some people you know, but possibly you’ve expanded that to account for the situation of other families who may have similar outward appearances but are dissimilar in ways you don't see.) Many posters have given insight as to how you may not be seeing the full picture in the lives of the people around you.

Here is my perception (what I mostly see around me) and my personal experience as well: When two become three (or four, five…), dynamics change, but for many couples, this is a natural progression which increases and broadens their love for each other as they include their children in that love. The love a person has to share is not finite. I don’t love my husband less because I now have children that I love too. In them, I see my husband’s traits, and I see how much he serves and loves them in ways that I can’t or don’t. With children, my husband and I also have a "group project" in raising them, which causes us to grow together as we create and achieve goals and reach milestones. This all increases my love for my husband, as it should.

Whatever your experience in this regard, you might find it helpful to keep as your goal the better path. You will choose who you will marry. You will choose how you will treat her and any kids you might have. You will choose how strong you will be in living the principles of the Gospel that will help you have success in these things. From your other posts, I can tell you have a great love of the Gospel and righteous desires, so act on those, focus on those, and work on making your own life good. Don't worry so much about what may or may not be happening around you. I don’t think it’s as bad out there as you think.

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Yahtzee
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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Yahtzee »

My PSA with this is that post partum anxiety is real and terrifying. Everyone talks about pp depression, but there's another side to that coin. And if a mom is overly concerned for her baby's health and safety to the point of ignoring her husband and other things, he needs to step in and help her get help.
I don't think that's what the op is talking about, but when I "ignored my husband" it was a metal health issue. If this is going on, they'll try to hide it as doting from people they aren't close to.

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Re: The sisters and babies...

Post by Silver »

gardener4life wrote: December 15th, 2017, 6:59 pm You know every once in awhile this idea comes up. It bothers me. and today it happened too.

I'm looking at my messages and see a friend posts this note about how wonderful babies are and their love was like spilling over for this baby. (I think it was a grandchild.) And then they went off on how their love felt strong before, but after seeing that baby it was like...train wreck...all they could think about was that baby and no one else. (That last part they didn't word but that's the effect you really see, and what I've seen in others.)

OK, so basically the question is;

I don't understand why how when women have a baby suddenly the husband is practically out of the house emotionally and mentally. It's like he doesn't exist and has no place in her life once they have a kid. It's not supposed to be like that. They can be a normal married church going active couple even, but mentally the husband becomes the outsider in the family. I wanted to generate a thought on this because its really unfair. And probably 90% of the women out there are degrading the husband to some kind of slave drone that's only there to pay for her kids and her housing. He has absolutely no rights except the right to get out of the way. This is how mainstream Americans treat the husband, and push him out of the house.

This behavior needs correction and I worry about it. It also has to do with the concept of before there is a baby, the women have this attitude like my way or you get replaced too. There's no give, there's only take.

When is this going to change? And why would you want to be married to someone in eternities if you were this outsider drone all the time?

I'm also not complaining about my marriage, and I'm not married. But I see this in family members, and experiences with dating, and what I see all around me on many levels. This isn't to degrade the sisters either. I think sisters are wonderful, but I just keep seeing this behavior over and over again and it bothers me.
So much bashing going on here. Pot. Kettle. Black.

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