Sisters-Help!

A place for conservative women to discuss true women's liberation, the role of women in healing America, the truth about feminism and more...
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capctr
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Sisters-Help!

Post by capctr »

I don't post very often, and when I do I tend to be a little over the top(mostly because I'm over sensitive).
Last edited by capctr on August 13th, 2017, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

butterfly
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by butterfly »

I'm so sorry you're feeling so down! I don't blame you, I'd feel crushed too if my husband said things like that to me, like being embarrassed to be seen with me. It sounds like you do the manliest thing you can in your situation - trying to sacrifice for the good of the family. Unfortunately, in this scenario, sacrificing means that you are at home feeling like you're not living out your role as a breadwinner like you would prefer to do. The way you're feeling as a result is completely understandable!

I don't know your wife, but it's so easy to take out anger and frustration on those who are the most submissive to us. Many people have scapegoats - a person who gets the blame for everything; it doesn't matter if you do everything right and sacrifice all you have, if you are the scapegoat, you will be the problem in every situation. Even when you've done nothing wrong; it's possible your wife was just trying to find anything to latch onto, anything to accuse you of, and this time it was how you were dressed. It's likely there was nothing wrong with your looks or your clothes, but the negativity in your wife had to get out and that was what she chose to unleash her anger on. You could be dressed perfectly and she could still find a problem because sometimes the issue isn't you, it's her and the negativity inside of her that is looking for an easy target. As long as she can blame you, then she doesn't have to blame herself for how she's feeling and what's really bothering her inside.

These are of course generalizations because I don't know you or your wife personally. However, it's not okay for anyone to treat you poorly. You're a human being, of course you make mistakes; that doesn't give anyone the right to belittle and demean you. I know you're really busy, but have the 2 of you ever tried marriage counseling?
It is not right for you to be treated this way, and your wife needs to know that it is unacceptable. You can lovingly tell her that, you don't have to be mean, but she needs to know.
I'm so sorry! Hang in there.
You are loved!

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Alaris
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by Alaris »

I know you asked sisters for help but as a brother I'm uniquely qualified to help you brother. My ex wife treated me extremely poorly and tried to lead me to believe I had it good. I grew angry over time as part of me believed her ...that all LDS women treated their husbands in similar fashion...only worse.

Your wife should be the last person to ever make you feel stupid or ugly or sub-par in any way. My wife's ex treated her like that...like she was inferior. Nope. She is amazing. He was wrong. My ex wife was wrong. Both were basically bullies...living selfishly and bullying their spouses into submission when they would stand up to them.

I'm not suggesting divorce but deliberately hurting a spouse by attacking them in weak areas is something that is difficult to repair...and should never happen.

My advice is to stand up and make it clear where the line is that neither of you will cross...rather you will live on the other side building each other up rather than tearing each other down. It's easy to be lured into an argument when that's what you know and are used to. As such I suggest you write your wife a letter. Letters cannot be interrupted or ignored.

Read about the 5 love languages. That helped me not only understand my ex basically showed me no love at all but also prepare me to improve all my relationships including my current marriage. Best case scenario it could help improve your marriage. Find out how better to show your wife love and patiently teach her how you want to be loved.

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WhereCanITurn4Peace
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by WhereCanITurn4Peace »

So sorry that this situation happened, capctr...I can imagine how badly you must feel.

Just based off what you have shared, it seems as if your wife is overwhelmed, really unhappy and is taking her frustrations out on you. Of course it's not right that she did it in the manner she did and in some quiet moment you two have together, I would suggest having a heart-to-heart so you can let her know how it affected you...with you using "I" statements, such as "I felt hurt when you said you were embarrassed to be seen with me".

Try not to do any "You always do such and such" or "You never such and such" as this tends to automatically put people on the defensive. Hopefully you two can share openly and honestly your feelings and concerns about what is going on and come to a conclusion about how to resolve issues in a loving (and kind) way in the future.

If lashing out is how she expresses herself on a regular basis than marriage counseling would be the way to go (as butterfly suggested). I would also suggest praying together daily as a couple if you aren't already. Peace unto you, brother.

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ason123
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by ason123 »

Tell her you happen like your outfit, and there are other things in the world to be embarrassed about besides the way someone is dressed. "Besides," you might say, "it hurts when you talk down on me like that. I know I am not the most fashion forward individual and may be forgetful sometimes, and I will try to work on that, but when you talk about every fault I have at once it makes me feel like I am taken for granted." Maybe being straightforward in that fashion will help her to realize how you truly feel. I bet she said her comments not realizing that her attitude seemed extra sour to you and not intending to demean you. It can be tough when you don't feel appreciated when you feel you have done a lot to contribute to the family. Just saying how it made you feel should make the biggest difference. Don't be afraid! She will probably be very understanding and apologize for the way she treated you. Best of luck! I hope things simmer down soon.

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Melissa
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by Melissa »

capctr wrote:I don't post very often, and when I do I tend to be a little over the top; however, I have a question.
I've been a stay at home dad for several years, but recently went back to work at the plant, so that I could "regain" my sense of manhood, and save up money to by an acre and materials to build my wife and family a cabin(minus the costs of figuring out water and power, depending on where you buy, it is surprisingly affordable; I've found a "wilderness acre" for $5200, and a pre-fab log home for $15K). My oldest works at home, and watches the baby until her mission in September, by which I will have saved more than enough for that, and to pay off any residual debt, other than our mortgage-before quitting, and taking my eldest pt job, and going back to full-time parenting.
My wife and I tend to work long hours, and so it is a challenge to get in enough time with each child, let alone all the housework, and each other. Sometimes we are both quite tired. I had a 3-day weekend, so while my wife was at work at the ER, I did laundry, cleaned house, repaired the fuel line on my daughter's car, showered, shaved, bought a new shirt(navy blue flannel) which I wore with khaki pants, and went to pick her up at the hospital to take her out to dinner with friends; however, I put the keys on top of the hutch in the kitchen, and couldn't remember where. I thought I lost them!
So I left the minivan, and took my pathfinder, and picked her up(late, since I looked for said keys).
She was tired, and stressed about the "lost" keys(I lost my own keys in October, and it cost $$$ to replace them), and proceeded to rip me a new one. Among the many things she said(most were true, just not kind-I AM extremely forgetful) she hated my clothes, and was embarrassed to be seen with me, before walking me into Costco to buy more "acceptable" clothing.
Any other time, I might've laughed, but after working so hard all day to take care of things, and then actually putting in the time and effort...I was devastated to be told she was embarrassed to be seen with me.
Understand, God didn't exactly make me brilliant, or successful(my wife got those traits), but my looks have NEVER been something I've been uncomfortable with, until now( In fact, if my wife were being honest, it's probably the main reason she married me).
I'm not trying to sound vain, but she took the ONLY thing about myself that I'm not ashamed of(what man wouldn't be ashamed of not being the main breadwinner?), and just...destroyed me.
Now, I'm stuck. I have so much despair inside, that I feel like I'm suffocating.
Do ALL women calculate their cuts to inflict maximum damage?
She just got done with a shift at the ER, likely a long shift since that's what health workers do. And you lost the keys. It may have been just enough to top her stress and make her overwhelmed.

Tricky thing about women, the argument or issue is rarely the issue. She has something going on for sure but it may be small. Maybe she didn't really want to be with friends that night?

Are you sure she did this to you on purpose? I don't think she would want you to feel insecure on purpose.

Just talk to her, give her a chance to speak for herself and apologize.

Side note...your not colorblind are you? I know sometimes a guy I know puts on great looking clothes but doesn't realize they are horrible together. Eitherway, this may not even be about clothes.

Matchmaker
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by Matchmaker »

Melissa is right. She's probably feeling overwhelmed. The lost keys put her over the edge. Unconsciously she may have blamed you for almost ruining her evening and struck out where she could.

I know this doesn't apply to you because you said your flannel shirt was new, but some men (or women) will make the mistake of wearing old sloppy clothes (comfortable to them) when they go out with others, and they don't realize the spouse they are with feels disrespected - as if the sloppily dressed person doesn't care about the spouse enough to take the time or effort to get cleaned up for them. In the temple we wear nice clothes as a way of showing respect to the Lord.

Juliet
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by Juliet »

First off, you ARE brilliant AND successful. Let's crush those little devils right off the bat. Everything you did over the 3 day weekend and your plans to get out of debt and build a cabin show me that. You are incredibly brilliant and remarkable. Believe that about yourself and it will help others. Do you know it hurts those close to you to belittle yourself? Those close to you need you to be confident in yourself so they can be confident in themselves. It is a choice, and you can do it!

Who has emotional intelligence in your family? Someone has to figure out how to nurture. Women usually do that but the lack of respect for it (or the perceived propogandized lack of respect for it) has turned many women against their nature and hardened them. Unfortunately it makes a woman feel like work is the only important thing she can do, because nurturing doesn't make money and therefore must not be valuable.

If you really want to be the man in your family, you will have to convince your wife how important it is that she comes home. A good talk was by Ezra T Benson entitled, "to the Mothers in Zion". He tells the women to come home and wrap the shroud of motherhood around them.

Honestly, if you read that to her and tell her you expect her to do it and you are going to be the man again, she may not like it at first, but she will respect you for it and maybe one day thank you.

The moon cannot be the sun, and women cannot be men. What would we do without the cycles and mystery of the feminine? The earth would flood without it's presence.

One last think in my prideful opinion, do not have 2 parents working full time. Look at what that did to the snowflake generation. As a stay at home mom, you know how sad it is to go to the library and little boy is with grandma because his mom works, and he comes to me and calls me "mama", and I am a complete stranger! It breaks my heart! You wouldn't do to a puppy what people do by way of abandoning their own flesh and blood. But I understand, they must only need food and shelter, since love and time means nothing because it does not make money. No, one adult has to be home with the kids. Not the older sister. The mom or dad. The older sister will not take good care of the baby. There is great risk that the daughter will become the family nurturer and that is abusive (it is not her job to be the parent) and puts you at risk for seeing her as the wife emotionally which is emotional incest. You need to get your marriage functional before your oldest daughter ends up in therapy.

There is not time for 2 incomes, someone has to be in charge of the emotional health of the family, and that comes from within, not from having all your dreams come true.

Best of luck I hope you find joy in living. Forgive me for being too outspoken and probably too harsh.

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kittycat51
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by kittycat51 »

This about broke my heart. I would be devastated if my husband said something like that to me. TALK TO HER. There is a great book called "Feelings buried alive never die". This is SO true. Don't suppress your hurt. TALK TO HER. I have learned the hard way after 30 years of marriage that burying feelings/thoughts etc have taken an awful toll on my health. BUT I have also learned it's never to late to start opening up more. Who knows, there may be things that she needs to talk about also. WherecanIturnforpeace is spot on with using "I feel" instead of "You" when discussing feelings. This is something great that my own beloved mother taught me. Good luck, pray for strength.

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AI2.0
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by AI2.0 »

capctr wrote:I don't post very often, and when I do I tend to be a little over the top; however, I have a question.
I've been a stay at home dad for several years, but recently went back to work at the plant, so that I could "regain" my sense of manhood, and save up money to by an acre and materials to build my wife and family a cabin(minus the costs of figuring out water and power, depending on where you buy, it is surprisingly affordable; I've found a "wilderness acre" for $5200, and a pre-fab log home for $15K). My oldest works at home, and watches the baby until her mission in September, by which I will have saved more than enough for that, and to pay off any residual debt, other than our mortgage-before quitting, and taking my eldest pt job, and going back to full-time parenting.
My wife and I tend to work long hours, and so it is a challenge to get in enough time with each child, let alone all the housework, and each other. Sometimes we are both quite tired. I had a 3-day weekend, so while my wife was at work at the ER, I did laundry, cleaned house, repaired the fuel line on my daughter's car, showered, shaved, bought a new shirt(navy blue flannel) which I wore with khaki pants, and went to pick her up at the hospital to take her out to dinner with friends; however, I put the keys on top of the hutch in the kitchen, and couldn't remember where. I thought I lost them!
So I left the minivan, and took my pathfinder, and picked her up(late, since I looked for said keys).
She was tired, and stressed about the "lost" keys(I lost my own keys in October, and it cost $$$ to replace them), and proceeded to rip me a new one. Among the many things she said(most were true, just not kind-I AM extremely forgetful) she hated my clothes, and was embarrassed to be seen with me, before walking me into Costco to buy more "acceptable" clothing.
Any other time, I might've laughed, but after working so hard all day to take care of things, and then actually putting in the time and effort...I was devastated to be told she was embarrassed to be seen with me.
Understand, God didn't exactly make me brilliant, or successful(my wife got those traits), but my looks have NEVER been something I've been uncomfortable with, until now( In fact, if my wife were being honest, it's probably the main reason she married me).
I'm not trying to sound vain, but she took the ONLY thing about myself that I'm not ashamed of(what man wouldn't be ashamed of not being the main breadwinner?), and just...destroyed me.
Now, I'm stuck. I have so much despair inside, that I feel like I'm suffocating.
Do ALL women calculate their cuts to inflict maximum damage?
Capctr, I read what you wrote and it just brought more questions to my mind and please read these not as punitive but sincerely asking you to ponder and find the answers for yourself, because I don't think you can fix this this with your wife unless you find the answers...

Why did you and your wife set up a household lifestyle which makes you both unhappy and unfulfilled? If it makes you feel less of a man to not provide for your family, why do you not do this? Why do you have your wife work and you stay home if this has harmed your feelings about yourself and your wife's feelings of respect for you? Why do both you and your wife work long hours when this obviously makes you both tired and unhappy and means you only make things worse in your marriage? How can you provide a loving, harmonious home when you and your wife are being divided even more by your arrangement?

I think you both need to answer these questions. Is it money and things you want? If so, that's the easiest to fix, for an LDS family--you need to ask yourselves if having more money and more 'toys' is worth the cost to your family.

eddie
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by eddie »

That was a very hurtful remark. Why is it we take things out on the ones we love? Is it because they trust that they are loved also and can vent their frustration ? My advice would be to forgive her and also to stand up for yourself.
She shouldn't have felt like she could show such disrespect for you, set a precedence.

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Sarah
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by Sarah »

All good advice. I agree that it was wrong for her to express disappointment in you, and make you feel like you had to live up to her expectation. Yes, talk to her about it, but also ask her if there have been times when she felt you were disappointed in her, and see what she says. She might be acting this way because of past hurts that you have caused.

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letsjet
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by letsjet »

I'm not a sister. I don't know enough about your situation to offer any useful advice except to get a priesthood blessing from your Bishop or Home Teacher.

Our oldest child was out of control. I got a blessing from my Bishop that told me to curb my anger. So basically I just looked the other way and kept my mouth shut. Progress is slow, but we are moving in the right direction. I recorded my blessing with my phone so I could replay it from time to time.

When things got tough with my wife, I would remember why we got married in the first place. It was clear to me that The Lord wanted us to be married, so we toughed out the rough times. Everything is going pretty well right now.

My only advice is get a Preisthood Blessing and follow your inspiration based upon that blessing. The Lord will lead you where you need to go!

capctr
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by capctr »

Update:
After a miserable day of depression, I was woken up at 2 am by my wife, who, out of nowhere, felt the need to move Heaven and Earth with the most heartfelt apology, and reassurance that she loved me...she has NEVER done that before.
I should've put two and two together-her mother had just left the day we went out and of the incident, flying back to Seattle-but not before chewing her out for voting Trump, which was followed by a rough day in the ER.
Logically, I know everybody has their limits, but my brain just shut down once her anger started.
Besides, I made sure to work 13+ hour days when her mom was here, so of course I had no idea what happened(I try to not interfere with here limited time with her daughter and grandchildren-yeah,never again).
Thank you for the awesome advice everyone!

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shadow
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by shadow »

capctr wrote: Do ALL women calculate their cuts to inflict maximum damage?
Yes.

I found this funny-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6sMnQsv7Hk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OCDMOM
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by OCDMOM »

Most anger comes from fear. Ask her what she is afraid of.

JohnnyL
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by JohnnyL »

capctr wrote:Update:
After a miserable day of depression, I was woken up at 2 am by my wife, who, out of nowhere, felt the need to move Heaven and Earth with the most heartfelt apology, and reassurance that she loved me...she has NEVER done that before.
I should've put two and two together-her mother had just left the day we went out and of the incident, flying back to Seattle-but not before chewing her out for voting Trump, which was followed by a rough day in the ER.
Logically, I know everybody has their limits, but my brain just shut down once her anger started.
Besides, I made sure to work 13+ hour days when her mom was here, so of course I had no idea what happened(I try to not interfere with here limited time with her daughter and grandchildren-yeah,never again).
Thank you for the awesome advice everyone!
Ha ha, no doubt she had a dream in which she saw you with another woman... Or maybe that just happens to my wife?

Anyway, one of the very best advice threads I've ever seen here!

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

I am grateful that things have been resolved and only wished to share that which may be "enlightening" and "beneficial" to reinforce being on the right track.

Emotional Intelligence requires 1.) Emotional Honesty (one has to be honest with themselves) and 2.) Emotional Maturity (one has to be honest with another.)

You may wish to listen to the "songs" in order as you pass through the various stages. There is a definite message being conveyed by each one relative to that stage in which they are given. I hope that you learn something and find it meaningful - if not helpful. (By paying attention, you may find a few "mistakes" in this journey.)

There are four stages to marriages:
1.) Infatuation Stage - Courtship and "Stars" in your eyes; Being in Love with "Love."
2.) Honeymoon Stage - Marriage and "Bliss" in fulfilled goals.
3.) Reality Stage - "This person isn't the person I thought they were."
4.) Honeymoon Stage - If a marriage survives stage 3, and the participants work on themselves instead of the other spouse - this stage can occur, again, and last forever.
(Please note the difference between "you" statements and "I" statements, as has been previously and wisely pointed out "Judgment is meant for "identification" and not "condemnation.")
Last edited by BruceRGilbert on March 13th, 2017, 2:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

As I was reviewing the music that I had used to illustrate the four stages of marriage, it became apparent that one of the selections was no longer available on YouTube due to a copyright question. It was one done by Neil Diamond and Barbara Streisand, "You Don't Bring Me Flowers."

Since "Love" is probably one of the most written about themes in music and I am a "country boy" at heart, there are a couple of other "selections" that I have made to illustrate that stage when reality shows up: Stage 3;

Here they are:

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gclayjr
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by gclayjr »

BruceRGilbert,

Thanks for those last 2 links. I have always been a fan of Country music, and do believe that it is more real in portraying good people trying to rise above life's knocks than any other popular style of music. I haven't followed Country music in a few years, so I am gratified to see such good songs going to the heart of such important trials in life.


Here is a great song about your stage 3 of marriage by a young artist that I think has one of the best voices in music



To give you an idea the era I come from here is a link to the Greatest Country love song of all time
Regards,

George Clay

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Thank you for that contribution, George Clay, Jr. It is much appreciated. I, certainly, don't want to give the impression that I am the author of the 4 Stages of Marriage . . . because I am not. In my quest to "overcome," this information was shared with me and I found it very valuable. I believe that in our generation the "story books" all ended with ". . . and they lived happily ever after." Certainly, that was my impression of the ideal, as I grew up a little "shy" of the correct "model" for marriage and consequently when my wife and I ran into difficulties - I was unprepared and thought that she didn't love me. I was unfaithful. This life is about "overcoming." My dear wife is a true saint. We have six children, and she had to raise seven. Indeed, a remarkable woman.

My mother committed suicide when I was 4 1/2 years old. Being the first to find her, I was unable to wake her up, nor understand the implications of such. My father did not re-marry until approximately 10 years later. My two sisters and I were raised by housekeepers, and consequently I didn't have that nurturing as a child. I didn't know that I didn't know what love was. It has taken years to learn.
Last edited by BruceRGilbert on March 7th, 2017, 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Here are other examples of "Country Music" that portrays that 3rd Stage, "Reality" trial.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Anything of lasting value; "Celestial Quality," must pass through the fire, literally and figuratively. This gives a new dimension to the meaning of "Baptism by Fire and The Holy Ghost." That which is pure has been purged of the dross.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: Sisters-Help!

Post by BruceRGilbert »

Heavenly Father, in His infinite wisdom, desires that we don't live a "sterile" life of "impeccable logic and intellect" by living entirely in our "heads" (minds) nor is it His desire that we live a "fantasy-life" turned over to the "unbridled" passions of our "hearts." Of necessity, there need be "balance."
Our "thoughts" and our "feelings," (unless we are aware of the source,) are being manipulated. We need to take care of where we are "attuned." The person that we are to learn to control is OURSELVES, and that only by the providence and grace of God, as it is He who knows all. His "commandments" are designed to provide us with a "STANDARD," whereby we can realize true happiness and fulfillment in our existence through compliance, thereto. He knows the hazards. He, too, has agency. He can be a "Spectator" out of respect for personal agency, or He can intervene and become a "Participant" by invitation. Each one of us decides. The Plan of Salvation is a perfect plan for the preservation of choice.

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