Do Women have it easier?

A place for conservative women to discuss true women's liberation, the role of women in healing America, the truth about feminism and more...
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red6
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Do Women have it easier?

Post by red6 »

Sin is Sin, but when it comes to men and women, to me it seems that the men get hammered on. Immoral action such as pornography, inappropriate relationships or how they treat their spouse go both ways and all I ever here is how the men need to be better and treat women right which is true by the way but..... What are your thoughts on this? In the general LDS populace are women as bad as or worse than men?

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Sandinista
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Sandinista »

Do you seriously want to open this bucket of worms? Do you like eating dog food and sleeping in the garage? :)

Lizzy60
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Lizzy60 »

Sure, let's take sides, and either bash the women, or bash the men. No thank you.

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red6
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by red6 »

Not looking to bash, just open honest conversation just put a smiley face at the end and make it all better. :)

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BTH&T
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by BTH&T »

My experience, women tend to be closer to the spirit and seem to be stronger morally!

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Desert Roses
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Desert Roses »

My guess is that because the GAs have wives who are really good women, and most abused and cheated on men don't write sad letters to them about it, there is a perception that women are better. But in the words of the song, "It ain't necessarily so." My experience is that men complain less and even fail to recognize abuse and immorality in their wives than women do in their husbands. It really is about 50/50--I've known men whose wives tried to run them over with cars, who were cheating on the internet then left husbands and children for their internet cheat, wives who tried to shoot them, who hit and beat them then lied to the police and said he hit her, wives who have destroyed their husband to the children, who stole every penny, who threatened suicide or murder if he left...All of these were LDS women (not necessarily active, but some were). My own take is that perceptions are skewed and so there aren't the talks, the concerns, etc. to women. But women aren't necessarily better. We are just more like the little girl with the curl on her forehead--when she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad, she was HORRID.

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David13
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by David13 »

Well, I think Desert Roses has spoken about the LDS woman.
But the Lorena Bobbitt case can speak about the hot blooded latina woman.
As far as the can of worms, it don't matter to me, I ain't married.
I know a lot of nice guys that have got involved with the 'wrong type' of woman, and thus suffered all of the things Desert Roses mentions.
But there are certainly no shortage of horrid men out there, like the ones who murder the wife; AND the children.
As exemplified by Saturn Devouring His Son, by Francisco Goya, or the same by Peter Paul Rubens.
dc

It's known as Man's Inhumanity to Man. Surpassed only by his inhumanity to women. And children. And some women refuse to be outdone by any man.

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BTH&T
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by BTH&T »

Desert Roses wrote:My guess is that because the GAs have wives who are really good women, and most abused and cheated on men don't write sad letters to them about it, there is a perception that women are better. But in the words of the song, "It ain't necessarily so." My experience is that men complain less and even fail to recognize abuse and immorality in their wives than women do in their husbands. It really is about 50/50--I've known men whose wives tried to run them over with cars, who were cheating on the internet then left husbands and children for their internet cheat, wives who tried to shoot them, who hit and beat them then lied to the police and said he hit her, wives who have destroyed their husband to the children, who stole every penny, who threatened suicide or murder if he left...All of these were LDS women (not necessarily active, but some were). My own take is that perceptions are skewed and so there aren't the talks, the concerns, etc. to women. But women aren't necessarily better. We are just more like the little girl with the curl on her forehead--when she was good, she was very, very good, and when she was bad, she was HORRID.
tis scary for sure!

A great woman made me a better man, so my view may be skewed (not to imply I'm a great guy)

Nan
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Nan »

James e. talmage was asked if women or men had it harder in this life. He said women did and they would be recompensed for it in the resurrection. I think everyone's earth life is difficult. Bottom line who cares what is being said to others. We are supposed to change what we need to change to become like Jesus Christ. Your question is kind of like my kids saying I only ever get them in trouble for what they do but no one else in the family ever gets talked too about what they did wrong.

farmerchick
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by farmerchick »

I gave the lesson in rs last sunday. Etb on parenthood. I didn't get through the part about the fathers role because of so many comments. We came to a conclusion as a group, that men are being marginalized in society in general. There is a war on men. I don't know what happens in the bishops office because I won't go in there....lol...but being the mother of four adult children...3 boys.....I have seen some bad behavior out of the girls they are married to and have dated. Fathers are super important and the lack of fathers in the recent past generation is having a grave impact on our society. The proclamation of the family has it nailed. A good man should be the center of the family unit and children need their father JUST AS MUCH AS A MOTHER. Men and women are equally important and children suffer when one parent is separated from them for whatever reason. There is no compensation for a good dad. Just my two cents from my lively lesson on Sunday. Good men are awesome and hard to come by!

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Melissa
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Melissa »

Is it possible the men seem to get talked to more at church because they are the priesthood leaders and the heads of households and the head of woman?

I think a change in perspective is needed here instead of a comparrison of who has it eaiser than the other. God works in order. Man is the head of woman so the order is that the husband should be talking to his wife and not expect the church to chastize her. If a husband has a problem with his wife (as very many do) then he needs to teach (yes, teach) and reason with her to help her stay on the path. The problem here is that if the husband has lost favor with his wife and she doesnt trust and respect him any longer due to sinful behaviors against the marriage or the family then he has lost his right (for a season) to chastize her for anything. And this view is common amongst women who have lost respect for their husbands.

The husband is to be a leader and the priesthood authority in his home...its up to him to claim that responsibility but way too many women seem to have to push their husbands into that role. This is where I agree the war on men has had a terrible effect.

A woman carries the sole responsibility to bear children and it is her body that is forever affected and her life forever changed. A man gets married and his life should forever change....but too many dont.

The man sacrifices himself (selfish desires) for his wife and eventual children and the wife sacrifices her life to be a mother. A woman has a baby and her life will never be just about her anymore. The same for a husband when he gets married. Too many have forgotten this.

Men live selfishly and disrespect their wives honor by having affairs (including virtual) and neglecting needs of the wife and women live selfishly by desiring to be outside the home and have someone else raise her children and living a life of vanity where she looks better for strangers than her own husband.

Its all pretty much a mess anymore and both genders have it pretty rough these days.

Also, the church is equal in preaching to both genders and even children and teens about living a righteous life.

The men get more specific talking to because they need it. If pornography wasnt the plague of the priesthood (meaning users of porn kill their priesthood power) then it probably wouldnt get as much attention. Women need more talking too in their own areas. Try to stand in front of a group of women and tell them they are dressing imodest and they need to dress better and you will get destroyed! And thats coming from a woman.

Proper order....they dont want to tell your wife shes being lousy in her dress, buddy its your job!

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Robin Hood
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Robin Hood »

In my experience (meaning as a local church leader) some wives have a lot to answer for.
Spousal abuse by wives upon husbands is not usually physical (though it can be) but it is just as harmful.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Maturity:

Women: They mature much faster than men. Most 17-year old females can function as adults.

Men: Most 17-year old males are still trading baseball cards and giving each other wedgies after gym class. :D

funny2.com

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red6
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by red6 »

Great comments everyone! I was curious what this topic would turn out. You can really see were someone’s focus is in how they respond. Talking to women about modesty lol hilarious, if they all only knew what a pair of 5 inch heels does to a guy regardless of how you few yourself. I also agree that men have a lot to overcome (everyone does but duh) I guess we have to keep plugging away during this life.

farmerchick
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by farmerchick »

One more commemt for this thread.... The women in the church should be soooooo very thankful if they have a good priesthood bearer husband. We need to put men on a pedestal. They need to be loved, nurtured and cared for. I personally don't want to do it all at home, church or work...I can...I'm capable...but I don't want to. My husband who is not a member, responds so much better when I stand down, give him respect and room for error. He will do it....maybe not just like I want, or when I want...but he always gets it done, whatever it is. We need to be helpers.....doers when needed....not complainers and whiners. Our job as wives is to polish the coal till the diamond shines....that's what a good woman can do. My husband is ten times better in all areas than he was when I married him. He no longer resembles coal...and one day I hope he will be a member. He'd be a good one!

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Bee Prepared »

farmerchick wrote:One more commemt for this thread.... The women in the church should be soooooo very thankful if they have a good priesthood bearer husband. We need to put men on a pedestal. They need to be loved, nurtured and cared for. I personally don't want to do it all at home, church or work...I can...I'm capable...but I don't want to. My husband who is not a member, responds so much better when I stand down, give him respect and room for error. He will do it....maybe not just like I want, or when I want...but he always gets it done, whatever it is. We need to be helpers.....doers when needed....not complainers and whiners. Our job as wives is to polish the coal till the diamond shines....that's what a good woman can do. My husband is ten times better in all areas than he was when I married him. He no longer resembles coal...and one day I hope he will be a member. He'd be a good one!
Excellent comment, I pray he will too!

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Rachael
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Rachael »

red6 wrote:Sin is Sin, but when it comes to men and women, to me it seems that the men get hammered on. Immoral action such as pornography, inappropriate relationships or how they treat their spouse go both ways and all I ever here is how the men need to be better and treat women right which is true by the way but..... What are your thoughts on this? In the general LDS populace are women as bad as or worse than men?
a. Once a month issues of blood. (along with cramps and hormones surges that negatively affects moods.)
b. Sexual dimorphism, being the weaker vessel physically... facilitates being subjected to physical abuse, rape, and even being murdered
c.Historically been denied rights to own property/careers in many societies, which fostered dependency scenarios, which also facilitated the latter part of the above. Some societies required fathers putting up dowries to marry their daughters off. Some daughters born to poor families were forced into prostitution as a result. Under the Law of Moses, a wife could be legally put away for any little thing. I could go on, just on "c," but I wont. 'Nuff' said.
d. Childbirth. What fun to labor and travail! And before modern medicine, a high possibility of dying
e. Being the primary caretaker of the said children if you survive having them. Dont get me wrong, having children can be very rewarding. In between the rewards,there is a lot of sleepless night listening to incessant "wahh-ing," chitty diapers, being puked on, no time for yourself, because of the demands of keeping a tiny person safe, teaching them basic life skills, etc., who will probably hate your guts and liver too, when they turn about 13, and wont love you again til around age 24... and taking a baby just to go grocery shopping is like packing for a camping trip. and for the most part, women do that when it would be easier if DH would just do for a while til the baby gets older..or at least babysit fo 30mins-hr!
f. Being the designated doer of all domestic duties. Wash clothes, wash dishes, cook, (do y'all really got to eat every day, several times a day?), mopping, vacuuming, etc. Can't you hang the dang towel up? I mean you you took a shower. Is it really that dirty when you dried your supposedly clean body with it? If you tried something on, then look in the mirror, and wanted to wear something else, can't you at least hang the chit back up? No? I'm labeled a "b-word now, and a nag, for just mentioning the suggestion. Ever cooked for your wife? Dirty-ed up every pot and pan, bowl, spoon, spatula, spatters all over the stove, and think you shouldnt help clean it up because you cooked? She's thinking how she cooks AND cleans up, night after night, but you think its beneath you to do the whole job. Then that leads to her thinking "he thinks he is better than me." Then he wonders and resents that she didnt give him that "atta boy" sticker of appreciation, and she didnt rip his clothes off to give him the nookie or feel like granting some" forbidden" favor.

Now, this was a generalization. I have observed good men, who do pitch in, are good providers. Not trying to bash the male gender. But I have observed and experienced what I wrote. And you dared to come on the women-folk thread with a controversial question..so here ya go.

We also have our Jezebels (not the ldsff member, but the one in Kings and Chronicles of the Bible!), Lady MacBeths, conniving, using, treacherous, high maintenance, demanding, hateful, spiteful, etc., females.

But maybe Jesus give us a little allowance for a-f. IDK

EDIT: As LDS women, we have the task of reconciling the polygamous history of the church. Or worry about it coming back in the future. Or worry about croaking 1st and wake up in the resurrection to a new sister wife. After learning this, we are told to "dont worry, be happy" every Sunday
Last edited by Rachael on August 14th, 2015, 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rachael
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Rachael »

Now I have opened myself up for accusation of having the Freudian concept of penile envy.

Well I wont deny it would be nice to be able to stand up and pee with out it running down my legs

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red6
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by red6 »

“And you dared to come on the women-folk thread with a controversial question”

I don’t think it’s a women ONLY Thread and the question was asked calmly and openly not in a controversial manner at least that was my intent.
Responding in this thread to this particular post is not pertaining to the original post.

So in response

A. No comment (Im a guy what could I say?) however not applicable to the original premise
B. Again not applicable to the original premise
C. Same situation as Native Americans and Slaves complaining about past grievances. Sorry that things went down that way it was horrible but that is not the case anymore. (Generally) Not applicable to the original premise.
D. No comment (a guy would be eaten alive responding to that) Not applicable to the original premise.
E. “Being the primary caretaker of the said children…”
That is your role right… primary caretaker? Family proclamation “primarily responsible for the nurture of their children”. We (Parents) both have roles. I do not think one is inherently more difficult than the other so I do not offer sympathy for your role.
“…if you survive having them.”
How many women literally do not survive childbirth? I know it happens but statistically in the US or the modern world what are the chances? (emotionally surviving you have a case there :) )
“Dont get me wrong…………………………”
The rest is pretty much being a parent applies to both parents not just women I have been
Puked on and cleaned up after comparable to what my wife has.

F. “Being the designated doer of all domestic duties.”
If I (a Man) am Providing/Working. I expect my wife (if she does not have a job) to be a home maker. In doing so I expect her to excel at that, as I am expected to excel in whatever form of providing that I am doing. When I get home I do not expect a pristine house, or every little thing done. We have children I know what chaos they can cause. However I expect basic work to be done in the amount of time that is given 8-10 hr day. And when I do get home then we are a Team to accomplish our family goals. I am more than willing to help out but more often than not the basics are not done feeding and dressing the kids does not take 8-10 hours to do. (most of the time :) )

“Ever cooked for your wife?”
Yes frequently. Guys you should try it.
“Dirty-ed up every pot and pan, bowl, spoon, spatula, spatters all over the stove, and think you shouldnt help clean it up because you cooked?”
No when I cook it’s all cleaned up before I am finish or as I am cooking.

“…but you think its beneath you to do the whole job.”
Are most guys really like that? Honestly I don’t think I know one guy that is that horrible or are half that bad (I know there are though)

“Now, this was a generalization.”
No you stated the worst of the worse and said that is a generalization. Not so maybe if you said it is a “generalization of the worst of the worst” then I might be able to agree with you. But as you said you have lived through all of that. I am truly sorry that you did and I hope you are somehow stronger for it
“Now I have opened myself up for accusation…”
Not at all it was fun responding I would say most guys would not dare respond.

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Rachael
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Rachael »

Yes you have cajones (or testicular fortitude if you no hablas/comprendes)! It was fun. Yes, Ive lived a lot of what I wrote. Your wife is a lucky woman!
Now dont get all big-headed about it ;)
Last edited by Rachael on August 14th, 2015, 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rachael
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Rachael »

But I did get around to addressing your question when I said, "But maybe Jesus give us a little allowance for a-f. IDK"
Again, the answer is: IDK. Women dont always just get to the point, we like to elaborate and take the long way around rather than a succinct, concise message that could be misconstrued because of it seemingly absolute when its not. Its like being on the stand (in our minds) when in court and being limited to 'yes or no' responses when we feel its more complex and out of context when being constrained to that parameter.

Fiannan
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Fiannan »

This guy has some interesting viewpoints on this subject:
F. Roger Devlin, Ph.D. is an independent scholar. He is the author of "Alexandre Kojeve and the Outcome of Modem Thought" and many essays and reviews in such publications as The Occidental Quarterly, American Renaissance, Counter-Currents, VDare and others. Roger joins us for a discussion on the subject of his latest book, "Sexual Utopia in Power," which is based on a number of different essays he has written throughout the years. Roger begins by laying out some of the utopian ideas that were propagated by magazines like Playboy and Cosmopolitan and became the backdrop for the sexual revolution of the 1960s. We look back to the roaring 20s, when divorce became fashionable and traditional viewpoints on morals and marriage were slowly beginning to shift. Roger explains how the selling of women as a utopian vision of sexuality was done for money by some and as a conscious effort to undermine American society by other revolutionaries coming out of the Frankfurt school. We look at the structure of herds and mating patterns in nature, and the common misconceptions that the sexual liberation of women equals more sex for men. Devlin criticizes the mainstream conservative responses to the sexual revolution, which often point to predatory men taking advantage of innocent women. He emphasizes that women have indeed been targeted with the propaganda of unconstrained sexuality, placing them in the position to control the supply and demand of sex, and therefore responsible for changing their behavior in order for societal problems to improve. Further, Devlin argues that the feminist revolution is a byproduct of the prosperity and increase in leisure time women have enjoyed since the industrial revolution, not because of oppression or mistreatment by men.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBXDxb4Ib8M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I agree that conservatives tend to look at women from the "sugar and spice and everything nice" standpoint in regards to moral issues. I also agree that modern feminism has a deeper side to it that is what Elder Packer did his best to warn about.

mikasa5678
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by mikasa5678 »

:)

The ward heretic
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by The ward heretic »

Rachael wrote:
red6 wrote:Sin is Sin, but when it comes to men and women, to me it seems that the men get hammered on. Immoral action such as pornography, inappropriate relationships or how they treat their spouse go both ways and all I ever here is how the men need to be better and treat women right which is true by the way but..... What are your thoughts on this? In the general LDS populace are women as bad as or worse than men?
a. Once a month issues of blood. (along with cramps and hormones surges that negatively affects moods.)
b. Sexual dimorphism, being the weaker vessel physically... facilitates being subjected to physical abuse, rape, and even being murdered
c.Historically been denied rights to own property/careers in many societies, which fostered dependency scenarios, which also facilitated the latter part of the above. Some societies required fathers putting up dowries to marry their daughters off. Some daughters born to poor families were forced into prostitution as a result. Under the Law of Moses, a wife could be legally put away for any little thing. I could go on, just on "c," but I wont. 'Nuff' said.
d. Childbirth. What fun to labor and travail! And before modern medicine, a high possibility of dying
e. Being the primary caretaker of the said children if you survive having them. Dont get me wrong, having children can be very rewarding. In between the rewards,there is a lot of sleepless night listening to incessant "wahh-ing," chitty diapers, being puked on, no time for yourself, because of the demands of keeping a tiny person safe, teaching them basic life skills, etc., who will probably hate your guts and liver too, when they turn about 13, and wont love you again til around age 24... and taking a baby just to go grocery shopping is like packing for a camping trip. and for the most part, women do that when it would be easier if DH would just do for a while til the baby gets older..or at least babysit fo 30mins-hr!
f. Being the designated doer of all domestic duties. Wash clothes, wash dishes, cook, (do y'all really got to eat every day, several times a day?), mopping, vacuuming, etc. Can't you hang the dang towel up? I mean you you took a shower. Is it really that dirty when you dried your supposedly clean body with it? If you tried something on, then look in the mirror, and wanted to wear something else, can't you at least hang the chit back up? No? I'm labeled a "b-word now, and a nag, for just mentioning the suggestion. Ever cooked for your wife? Dirty-ed up every pot and pan, bowl, spoon, spatula, spatters all over the stove, and think you shouldnt help clean it up because you cooked? She's thinking how she cooks AND cleans up, night after night, but you think its beneath you to do the whole job. Then that leads to her thinking "he thinks he is better than me." Then he wonders and resents that she didnt give him that "atta boy" sticker of appreciation, and she didnt rip his clothes off to give him the nookie or feel like granting some" forbidden" favor.

Now, this was a generalization. I have observed good men, who do pitch in, are good providers. Not trying to bash the male gender. But I have observed and experienced what I wrote. And you dared to come on the women-folk thread with a controversial question..so here ya go.

We also have our Jezebels (not the ldsff member, but the one in Kings and Chronicles of the Bible!), Lady MacBeths, conniving, using, treacherous, high maintenance, demanding, hateful, spiteful, etc., females.

But maybe Jesus give us a little allowance for a-f. IDK

EDIT: As LDS women, we have the task of reconciling the polygamous history of the church. Or worry about it coming back in the future. Or worry about croaking 1st and wake up in the resurrection to a new sister wife. After learning this, we are told to "dont worry, be happy" every Sunday
Rasing children? child birth? Are you not proud of these aspects of your femininity?
Keeping a wonderful household is nothing to complain about.

A women's life in regards to working a household and raising kid is very front loaded. For example: in my family of many siblings, women work very hard to get the kids healthy and ready for school. once in school, my sisters have more time to themselves.
They are still working, but a load is lifted somewhat. (Unless they homeschool) this is why moms can't wait for school to start again.

Once kids leave home and start their own lives, moms and dads still worry and work to help their kids but the actual hands on work you described is all but over for the most part. Then women can move more towards a lady of leisure with more then enough time for themselves, which is good. They need it after all the hard work they have done.

Of course this is not in all cases, but certainly rings true with the western model of family relationships.

I know you are not trying to bash men; I appreciate that, but Could you write a list like this for a man?

Ultimately I think men and women both have it hard and it is getting harder.
But life is a lot easier for both male and female when we get married and create a wonderful partnership make great families.

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Rachael
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Re: Do Women have it easier?

Post by Rachael »

The ward heretic wrote:
The ward heretic wrote:I know you are not trying to bash men; I appreciate that, but Could you write a list like this for a man?
Alright. Im working on it
The ward heretic wrote:Ultimately I think men and women both have it hard and it is getting harder.
But life is a lot easier for both male and female when we get married and create a wonderful partnership make great families.
I wholeheartedly agree

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