Do Bishops side with the men?

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Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

will wrote:If you have a difficult time with your bishop. Go to your stake president. Keep it at that, looking for sympathy on a forum and accusing your bishop of siding with men is wrong even if your bishop has done so. He is your bishop. There is an order to things. Take it higher if you feel he is biased.
Okie Dokie...

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Obrien
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Obrien »

Obrien has a heart. He's just working through his own issues, with the church he used to love. He cares for people and families - they're the only things worth caring about in the long run.

Ps - a little sheetrock and paint didn't stop those prayers tonight.

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rewcox
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by rewcox »

Obrien wrote:Obrien has a heart. He's just working through his own issues, with the church he used to love. He cares for people and families - they're the only things worth caring about in the long run.

Ps - a little sheetrock and paint didn't stop those prayers tonight.
Sheetrock masters are good to know. Us guys really invaded Sisters in Zion on this one...

Protector
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Protector »

Being a guy myself I must say 99.5% of men are idiots. That being said I'd say a majority are dumb but women can be bad too. Doesn't matter the position there in such as bishop etc they are still mortals and sin just like me as well as everyone else. But don't hold that against the church or let it effect ur testimony. There are idiots in every religion catholic, baptists, lds , Jewish you name it.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Original_Intent »

I apologize, I didn't even see this was posted in sisters in Zion. I just hit "New Posts" and browse from the top down.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Original_Intent wrote:I apologize, I didn't even see this was posted in sisters in Zion. I just hit "New Posts" and browse from the top down.
No problem OI, I appreciate your input.

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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by davedan »

Marriage is never about who is right and who is wrong, it takes 2 to tango. If the discussion goes he said, she said, he did she did: that never ends well - don't expect the Bishop to get involved with that. It is about lets keep the basics repent and become more spiritual and the prob solves itself, even if you are not wrong suck it up and things will get better, the other party will then concede as well.
I really like this comment. If there are problems in the marriage, most often there is a bit of improvement that both sides can make. Sometimes, we can make the mistake by 1. exclusively siding with the husband, or 2. putting LDS women on a the pedistal of perfect that feeds into this false notion that whatever they think against their busbands must be right.

Truth is, aside from cases of clear abuse, marriage counselling works best when both sides in a relationship are able to come at it with a spirit of humility and a desire to improve themselves and acknowledge that repentance and self-improvement can work to improve their marriage, instead of only, thinking "the marriage will only be all fixed with he/she changes". It helps when both partners can come into the situation equally yoked and willing to work on themselves to improve things.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

From another angle we are living in a time when serous tribulations are about to be poured out without measure upon the world....
A lot of things have gone wrong for me lately, employment, vehicles braking down, a family I home teach is not coming to church any more etc...

Usually in my life when problems start heaping up it is in preparation for a major change coming, could be a church calling, issue with family members etc. I always warn investigators to expect to be tempted prior to baptism, it is a trial and also the Evil one is very active.

Personally I think we are being prepared for big changes coming to the world, if we have a weak spot somewhere the Lord want us to deal with it before things get chaotic. Consider it a tough love blessing from the other side that puts all these situations if front of us for our growth.

@passionflower thanks for sharing: It has been my experience, even with workplace EAP (employee assistance programs) where company has an appointed councilor, and any employee can use services without any cost and anonymous. 90% of the time 2-3 half hour sessions is all it takes...

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captainfearnot
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by captainfearnot »

passionflower wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
OK, so Lizzie60, I am amazed there is a person you deem could beat you out as the biggest gossip in your ward. I can't think of a post of yours that hasn't been a stream of straight gossip. Including this one.
I have never encountered a single bit of gossip from Lizzy60, including the post quoted here. Maybe you don't understand what gossip is.

First of all, it's not gossip if it's anonymous. Secondly, Lizzy's accounts are always used in support of an argument. She's presenting evidence to back up her assertions about the topic at hand—anecdotal evidence though it may be. That's the coin of the realm on internet message boards.

Lizzy60
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Lizzy60 »

captainfearnot wrote:
passionflower wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
OK, so Lizzie60, I am amazed there is a person you deem could beat you out as the biggest gossip in your ward. I can't think of a post of yours that hasn't been a stream of straight gossip. Including this one.
I have never encountered a single bit of gossip from Lizzy60, including the post quoted here. Maybe you don't understand what gossip is.


First of all, it's not gossip if it's anonymous. Secondly, Lizzy's accounts are always used in support of an argument. She's presenting evidence to back up her assertions about the topic at hand—anecdotal evidence though it may be. That's the coin of the realm on internet message boards.
Oh my, thank you, thank you, thank you, for coming to my defense!
Last edited by Lizzy60 on August 3rd, 2015, 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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passionflower
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by passionflower »

captainfearnot wrote:
passionflower wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
OK, so Lizzie60, I am amazed there is a person you deem could beat you out as the biggest gossip in your ward. I can't think of a post of yours that hasn't been a stream of straight gossip. Including this one.
I have never encountered a single bit of gossip from Lizzy60, including the post quoted here. Maybe you don't understand what gossip is.

First of all, it's not gossip if it's anonymous. Secondly, Lizzy's accounts are always used in support of an argument. She's presenting evidence to back up her assertions about the topic at hand—anecdotal evidence though it may be. That's the coin of the realm on internet message boards.
Last edited by passionflower on August 3rd, 2015, 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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passionflower
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by passionflower »

Bee Prepared wrote:Thank-you everyone who has shared words of advice, your perspective helps me regain mine.

I got a PM that told me to get over myself. I was offended at first, then I realized I did need to get over myself, however a person needs time to heal and re-establish trust, I feel that its only human to go through a process of anger, hurt, self-pity, forgiveness and the effort of moving forward. I have made an appointment with a counselor, I believe its smart to get help. Thank-you for that advice.

Yes, passionflower, I do love my husband, he is a good man, a good father, this marriage is worth saving. Thank-you so much for your advice!

I was also chastized for speaking of this on a discussion forum. I don't know, maybe I was wrong, but your kindness has touched my heart. Its nice to have an anonymous family. Hey, we even get to see Obrien's tender heart. Thank you Obrien for such kind words. Thank-you for the prayers, I hope they get past the ceiling! ( j/k) You are a good man!

Once again, thank-you everyone for the kind words, I think I am going to be ok, I have my Savior to rely on. A good talk to read is
" My Grace is Sufficient, by Brad Wilcox.

Second Question Beep: does your husband still love you? ( underneath it all, I mean ) I agree with you that you've got a good guy there, and he's got the girl for him, or he wouldn't have chosen you, right?

Your problem Beep, although I can hardly say I've heard it out, has the ring of some sort of irreconcilable difference. Am I in the ball park?
'

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Desert Roses
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Desert Roses »

BeePrepared, I AM a counselor--I have a license and everything! And much of what passionflower has said is right on the money. The reality is that unless there is true abuse, or addiction, the problem has two sides, and my own experience (personally and professionally) is that both parties want to see the other as the problem causer. What is an amazing truth is that when EITHER (not necessarily both) party becomes humble enough to simply stop defending or attacking, and just listen, then humbly ask forgiveness for their part, it is incredibly healing and can make even the most difficult problems go away. "It takes two to tango" is a wonderful analogy, because just like a dance step, conflict in relationships is often an intricate back and forth. If one party changes the step, the other will almost always change to follow the new step! It isn't always easy, but with the power that the Atonement provides us, it can happen! I invite you to ponder how you can change your step--even if he is the one who has been tromping on toes the most often.

And thanks, passionflower, for your wisdom and frank speaking.

Nan
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Nan »

I will be blunt. If your husband is having issues and meeting with the bishop alone and then meeting with you both I would make sure your husband isn't lying to the bishop. I had one friend who was having sex every single day with her husband while pregnant. He was doing porn and masturbating up to 3 times a day. The bishop told her she needed to be more thoughtful of him in the sex area. And that he knew it could be difficult while you are pregnant. I was the one that pointed out to her that obviously her husband was lying to the bishop about how often they were having sex. Having said that, if things are wrong in the marriage it is usually both people's fault. Both people need to change. sometimes what the other person needs to change is more obvious to us than what we need to change. Both have to change here on earth to have Joy in our marriages. And we should both be always working to improve ourselves and our relationships.

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Obrien
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Obrien »

gossip coin of the realm ^^^ ;)

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passionflower
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by passionflower »

captainfearnot wrote:
passionflower wrote:
Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
OK, so Lizzie60, I am amazed there is a person you deem could beat you out as the biggest gossip in your ward. I can't think of a post of yours that hasn't been a stream of straight gossip. Including this one.
I have never encountered a single bit of gossip from Lizzy60, including the post quoted here. Maybe you don't understand what gossip is.

First of all, it's not gossip if it's anonymous. Secondly, Lizzy's accounts are always used in support of an argument. She's presenting evidence to back up her assertions about the topic at hand—anecdotal evidence though it may be. That's the coin of the realm on internet message boards.

I deleted my comment to you. I certainly don't want to ever say anything to a man from defending a woman. Carry on!

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

Desert Roses wrote:BeePrepared, I AM a counselor--I have a license and everything! And much of what passionflower has said is right on the money. The reality is that unless there is true abuse, or addiction, the problem has two sides, and my own experience (personally and professionally) is that both parties want to see the other as the problem causer. What is an amazing truth is that when EITHER (not necessarily both) party becomes humble enough to simply stop defending or attacking, and just listen, then humbly ask forgiveness for their part, it is incredibly healing and can make even the most difficult problems go away. "It takes two to tango" is a wonderful analogy, because just like a dance step, conflict in relationships is often an intricate back and forth. If one party changes the step, the other will almost always change to follow the new step! It isn't always easy, but with the power that the Atonement provides us, it can happen! I invite you to ponder how you can change your step--even if he is the one who has been tromping on toes the most often.

And thanks, passionflower, for your wisdom and frank speaking.
I like your tango, never thought about it that way :ymblushing: My poor wife feet are all broken and bruised, while she dances jigs around me,can never keep up with all the changes in steps.
Perhaps I should put more effort into being plain and simple like your words and take a clue from Nephi and delight in plainness.

Since you counselors like quotes:: Mark Twain “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

PS BeeP post some more stuff, so we can get more wisdom from these wise Sisters, at your expense of course ;) .

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Desert Roses
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Desert Roses »

I will say that every bishop I've worked with has responded very clearly if the wife said there was abuse going on. I had one bishop call my ex in and tell him basically to pull his head out of his *** (Almost that way, according to the ex ) because he had a great wife if he'd control his anger problem. My ex was quite offended because he was sure I was to blame for his explosive temper. Anyway just saying bishops don't always side with the man.

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

Desert Roses wrote:I will say that every bishop I've worked with has responded very clearly if the wife said there was abuse going on. I had one bishop call my ex in and tell him basically to pull his head out of his *** (Almost that way, according to the ex ) because he had a great wife if he'd control his anger problem. My ex was quite offended because he was sure I was to blame for his explosive temper. Anyway just saying bishops don't always side with the man.
That has been my experience, I have been working closely with Bishops and been there myself a few times - never seen an abuse case not dealt with properly, and every ward and branch I have been in had to deal with excommunicated members due to abuse, and authorities were notified in every instance, and have had many stake presidents decline those that try to get re-baptized saying they have to wait +10 years minimum.

I have found that the sisters in the church are usually given the benefit of the doubt.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

I have come to the conclusion the bishop has other things on his mind. The first time we met with him he expressed his distain for the calling. So much for that. I went for my first session of counseling today, We connected from the beginning, she was neither for nor against anyone. She mostly listened. We talked about Christ, who truly is my ultimate source of comfort.

Of course there is always two sides to every pancake. I didn't mean to come across a some kind of prima donna, please forgive me. Basically I am a reasonable person, until someone gets un-reasonable with me, then I react. I have made bad decisions in my life, and I have accepted the consequences. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, but really, this blame game is not what I expected? Is that just looking for an excuse for one's behavior? Our marriage isn't perfect, is anybody's? Of course I have many faults, don't we all? I felt like I was being told, " What did you do to deserve this?"

I am thankful for the advice to see a counselor, and I don't hold anything against the Bishop, perhaps he is also having a personal problem. I have served with some amazing men, recently in the Temple. I will survive! :)

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Robin Hood
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Robin Hood »

Bee Prepared wrote:Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.
Has it occurred to you the bishop might be right?

Fiannan
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Fiannan »

Nan wrote:I will be blunt. If your husband is having issues and meeting with the bishop alone and then meeting with you both I would make sure your husband isn't lying to the bishop. I had one friend who was having sex every single day with her husband while pregnant. He was doing porn and masturbating up to 3 times a day. The bishop told her she needed to be more thoughtful of him in the sex area. And that he knew it could be difficult while you are pregnant. I was the one that pointed out to her that obviously her husband was lying to the bishop about how often they were having sex. Having said that, if things are wrong in the marriage it is usually both people's fault. Both people need to change. sometimes what the other person needs to change is more obvious to us than what we need to change. Both have to change here on earth to have Joy in our marriages. And we should both be always working to improve ourselves and our relationships.
How did your friend know how often her husband was...well, you know?

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Robin Hood wrote:
Bee Prepared wrote:Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.
Has it occurred to you the bishop might be right?
I have been pondering that question. I believe the bishop was showing mercy, just as Christ would. I was throwing the stones. My first reaction was
hurt, pain, disbelief, betrayal, confusion, and yes, I was mad! I am slowly starting to heal, I have turned my attention not to my feelings, but to his. Its called humility. I love this scripture;

" I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you." John 14:18
I am receiving the comfort I need.

Ezra Taft Benson, " Beware Of Pride "

"The humble seek to do God’s will. Their self-esteem is based on God’s opinion of them as His child. They seek only to please Him. They forgive easily, are peacemakers, and take correction and direction with gratitude in their hearts for the love that directed the Lord to give the correction and direction. Those who are humble build healthy relationships, seek the welfare of those around them, respect the agency of others, and honor their parents, spouse, and priesthood leaders. They listen to all the words of life given in the scriptures and seek to apply them in their daily living."

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Rose Garden
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Rose Garden »

Bee, I was shocked to see the title of this thread with your name on it. I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I know how painful it must be.

I agree with the advice of those who have said, it takes two to tango. For myself, I would point you to the sermon on the mount as you seek to deal with this problem.

The Lord tells us to turn the other cheek, to cast the beam out of our own eye, etc. As it has been pointed out, and as Christ so beautifully illustrated, it is so much easier to see the flaws in others than ourselves. I can tell you that the instructions given in this great sermon are the means provided to us to allow us to see our own flaws and overlook others. Often, when we humbly turn the other cheek, we discover that the other person was not striking us at all. It was merely us in our foolishness perceiving offense where none was intended.

Of course, there are true offenses committed in this fallen world. Whatever your situation, however, if you yield to the Lord's advice, he will right the wrongs. You will be able to hand over the burden of justice to him and seek only healing for your broken heart.

I will pray for you also. I know your pain. May the Lord bless you and comfort you during this time. As you said, he will not leave you alone.

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