Do Bishops side with the men?

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Bee Prepared
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Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.

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rewcox
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by rewcox »

I suspect it depends on the bishop. It's important for a bishop to have spiritual guidance, because each person/couple can be completely different even though the subject matter may be the same.

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

LOL: The men of the church are always wrong - no doubt about it.
Ask to be refereed to LDS social services, my experience they are all woman counselors - and reports I have received, they grind the men to powder.
One or two (usually that is all it takes) meeting with LDS social services councilor your husband will be beaten to pulp and you will be proven correct!!

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marc
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by marc »

Uh-oh. Sounds like you're getting a teeny tiny taste of what a lot of people here have experienced with leaders, myself included. But don't let it shake your testimony of the Savior and the truthfulness of the gospel and the scriptures. We men are fallible and our callings don't make us right by default, no matter how high up the chain you go.

Abinadi
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Abinadi »

Most bishops are not qualified to give "advice". Make him give you a reference for professional LDS Counciling. My ward even foots the bill.

Why would you go to a "dentist" for Counciling?

karend77
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by karend77 »

Abinadi wrote:Most bishops are not qualified to give "advice". Make him give you a reference for professional LDS Counciling. My ward even foots the bill. Why would you go to a "dentist" for Counciling?
Agree with all of the above. A bishop is not a licensed marriage counselor, please seek outside help -either through LDS Services or a therapist.

Good luck in working things out.

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Original_Intent
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Original_Intent »

Sad situation all around. Hopefully eye opening without being testimony destroying.

Lizzy60
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Lizzy60 »

I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.

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LiberMama
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by LiberMama »

Well, in my experience as a child.... they always sided with my father who complained that my mother was 'insane' -- when she clearly was NOT! He abused her not only mentally but also physically. And he got away with it! As a child, it infuriated me that not only my Father, but also the Bishop seemed to not understand the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. Fortunately, I guess I must have been wise beyond my years, because fortunately, before I was 8 yo I had already gained a testimony of the Gospel. I clearly see that people are human and can make human errors. I don't hold it against the Church for a Bishops poor decisions and weaknesses in that situation.... the part that really upset me and my siblings is that the Stake President would still give my Dad his temple privileges. I even went and expressed this to the Stake President. It fell on deaf ears.

It is a tough row to hoe being a Bishop, to be thrust in the position of 'counselor' to spouses -- I would say IF the Bishop is in tune with the spirit, then yes, trust their counsel... but equally *the person seeking counseling* better be in tune with the Spirit to know the Bishop is giving sound counsel too.

I must say, if you are being abused by your husband, and the Bishop is not responding to your pleas for help by getting you the LDS Counseling you need then, take it to the Stake President. If this abuse warrants divorce by all means don't allow yourself to be treated like that. I do know that the Church handbook does say that the first goal is to save Marriage Covenants over breaking them... BUT, if a spouse is abusive, physically, verbally or mentally -- how can that covenant be saved? (I have known sisters to be abusive, its not just the brothers who can be guilty of this type of offense!) It requires the one doing the abuse to admit it. That, in itself is a big problem, getting the abuser to admit they have done wrong, and for them to be willing to seek help to change. I can happen, but unfortunately, its rare.

I pray you find the answers and peace you are seeking.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
I've seen that also Lizzy. My friend whose husband was a counselor in the bishopric told everything that went on. I told her to stop, so she went on to others. I was YW Pres. and she told me when I was getting released.
Last edited by Bee Prepared on August 1st, 2015, 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

LiberMama wrote:Well, in my experience as a child.... they always sided with my father who complained that my mother was 'insane' -- when she clearly was NOT! He abused her not only mentally but also physically. And he got away with it! As a child, it infuriated me that not only my Father, but also the Bishop seemed to not understand the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood. Fortunately, I guess I must have been wise beyond my years, because fortunately, before I was 8 yo I had already gained a testimony of the Gospel. I clearly see that people are human and can make human errors. I don't hold it against the Church for a Bishops poor decisions and weaknesses in that situation.... the part that really upset me and my siblings is that the Stake President would still give my Dad his temple privileges. I even went and expressed this to the Stake President. It fell on deaf ears.

It is a tough row to hoe being a Bishop, to be thrust in the position of 'counselor' to spouses -- I would say IF the Bishop is in tune with the spirit, then yes, trust their counsel... but equally *the person seeking counseling* better be in tune with the Spirit to know the Bishop is giving sound counsel too.

I must say, if you are being abused by your husband, and the Bishop is not responding to your pleas for help by getting you the LDS Counseling you need then, take it to the Stake President. If this abuse warrants divorce by all means don't allow yourself to be treated like that. I do know that the Church handbook does say that the first goal is to save Marriage Covenants over breaking them... BUT, if a spouse is abusive, physically, verbally or mentally -- how can that covenant be saved? (I have known sisters to be abusive, its not just the brothers who can be guilty of this type of offense!) It requires the one doing the abuse to admit it. That, in itself is a big problem, getting the abuser to admit they have done wrong, and for them to be willing to seek help to change. I can happen, but unfortunately, its rare.

I pray you find the answers and peace you are seeking.
Thank-you. I study intensively. It seems men will try to shift the blame to their wives, i.e., you spent too much time with the children, you are too busy for me. In actuality, I was just trying to be a good mother and wife. I needed support, I need a man who honors his priesthood so we can have blessings, he is trying every method to put the blame in my lap, and men will support men. I will take the advice to see an counselor, I need someone to talk to. Bishop just keeps scolding me, my brain swirls round and round.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

WarMonger wrote:LOL: The men of the church are always wrong - no doubt about it.
Ask to be refereed to LDS social services, my experience they are all woman counselors - and reports I have received, they grind the men to powder.
One or two (usually that is all it takes) meeting with LDS social services councilor your husband will be beaten to pulp and you will be proven correct!!
I need help, I am so confused. I think you are correct, another woman to talk to. I hesitate to talk to friends or sisters, because I want this to be confidential. You people don't know who I am, and I appreciate the advice. My experience with this church has always serving, I have never asked for help or been to the Bishop with a problem. I am in shock as to how he is treating me!

Stacy Oliver
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Stacy Oliver »

Maybe he always sides with men by default. Or maybe your husband just happens to be right. I hope you will carefully examine yourself and what you're doing before you get too critical of your Bishop. Obviously, I don't know the facts and you may well be 100% right. But I think that people are, all too often, quick to point fingers and slow to introspection.

Bee Prepared
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Bee Prepared »

marc wrote:Uh-oh. Sounds like you're getting a teeny tiny taste of what a lot of people here have experienced with leaders, myself included. But don't let it shake your testimony of the Savior and the truthfulness of the gospel and the scriptures. We men are fallible and our callings don't make us right by default, no matter how high up the chain you go.
Wow, this has been the worst experience of my life! I am the innocent party, of course I've made mistakes, but he has caused this problem.

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passionflower
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by passionflower »

Bee Prepared wrote:
WarMonger wrote:LOL: The men of the church are always wrong - no doubt about it.
Ask to be refereed to LDS social services, my experience they are all woman counselors - and reports I have received, they grind the men to powder.
One or two (usually that is all it takes) meeting with LDS social services councilor your husband will be beaten to pulp and you will be proven correct!!
I need help, I am so confused. I think you are correct, another woman to talk to. I hesitate to talk to friends or sisters, because I want this to be confidential. You people don't know who I am, and I appreciate the advice. My experience with this church has always serving, I have never asked for help or been to the Bishop with a problem. I am in shock as to how he is treating me!

I'm another woman to talk to.

A man's greatest social need is to be RESPECTED.

When a woman says her husband is emotionally or verbally abusing her, she is actually just experiencing him defending himself from her disrespect. He would not call his defense tactics "abuse" and neither would another man, no matter how rough they were.

If you want a divorce, Libermama has clearly shown you the road to go down. And doesn't she sound very happy and successful, does she ? And all the schooling marraige counselors go through is thoroughly saturated with feminist dogma, like Warmonger so clearly stated, so I'm sure they can help you to a divorce, too. And it will ALL be "his" fault. With all his unrighteous dominion or something. Your intentions were only to be a "good wife and mother", that's all, and you will be vindicated :ymapplause:

You can go ahead with all that. Or you can put the power in your corner and solve this frustrating painful problem without going to the Bishop or anyone else. Except me, that is.......

If this was my husband, I could solve this problem and turn him into a loving kitty cat purring in my lap in short order!

Of course, Beep, you can just settle for the instant validation Marc gave you up there and proceed on that "it's all his fault" premise. But you will have all eternity to look back on this marraige failure. I'd rather have no regrets. How about you?

First question:" Do you love your husband?"

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passionflower
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by passionflower »

Lizzy60 wrote:I had a Bishop who "confided" in his wife, asking her advice on how to counsel couples. Unfortunately, she was a gossip. He only served 2 years, because it did not take long for people to figure out that their meetings with him were soon public knowledge. He was also a very kind man, and I served as RS President under him, but he was not someone any ward member should have been confiding in. Good heart, but way over his head when it came to marriage counseling.
OK, so Lizzie60, I am amazed there is a person you deem could beat you out as the biggest gossip in your ward. I can't think of a post of yours that hasn't been a stream of straight gossip. Including this one.

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by A Random Phrase »

Bee Prepared wrote:Husband and I have been counseling with the bishop over some recent problems. I've thought we had the kindest Bishop in the church. Boy was I wrong. No matter what I say, he sides with my husband. He actually told me I was condemning my husband by speaking against him. Whoa, the truth
is not speaking against him. Most of you who know me, know that I never speak out against the brethren. This has been an awful experience! Testimony shaking if you will.

The Savior showed an unusual respect for women, He is my hero, not condescending men who place women as second.
Some bishops are like that and some aren't. Sad you got one who is. :ymhug:

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by A Random Phrase »

If you go to LDS social services, the bishop has to recommend you (unless they've changed things). He may also prep them as to what your problem is. If you do go this route, ask for a female. Not all of them are. I've never had a female LDS counselor.
Bee Prepared wrote:
WarMonger wrote:LOL: The men of the church are always wrong - no doubt about it.
Ask to be refereed to LDS social services, my experience they are all woman counselors - and reports I have received, they grind the men to powder.
One or two (usually that is all it takes) meeting with LDS social services councilor your husband will be beaten to pulp and you will be proven correct!!
I need help, I am so confused. I think you are correct, another woman to talk to. I hesitate to talk to friends or sisters, because I want this to be confidential. You people don't know who I am, and I appreciate the advice. My experience with this church has always serving, I have never asked for help or been to the Bishop with a problem. I am in shock as to how he is treating me!

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A Random Phrase
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by A Random Phrase »

Bee, it sounds like a really tough road you're on right now.

You've asked for advice, so I'll share what I think (free advice - take it for what you paid for it).

First, I think it's good you asked us because, like you said, we don't know you. That makes us safe. We can be a sounding board as you figure out, yourself, what is best for you to do.

Second, don't believe our advice. Look at the advice, turn it over. See if it makes sense. See if it could harm you. See if it could help you. (I would not advise counseling with one of us. I don't think any of us are qualified, if what you need is someone with the knowledge and wisdom to get you past this. You don't know any of us well enough to know if we could inadvertently harm you through bad "counseling.")

Third, pray. Ask God for solutions, for help, for the strength to deal with this, for softened hearts, for yourself that you may understand what it is He intends for you to learn from this.

Fourth, I don't know if your husband is abusive, or just being a man who doesn't understand women/is self-centered/other - but there is a good book for women who are in a relationship with men who are not nice. "Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" (Right now, the prices at that link range from $3.35 to $9.01. There may be shipping charges.)

Love, hugs, and prayers for you as you figure this out. :ymhug:

Serragon
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Serragon »

Bee Prepared wrote:
Thank-you. I study intensively. It seems men will try to shift the blame to their wives, i.e., you spent too much time with the children, you are too busy for me. In actuality, I was just trying to be a good mother and wife. I needed support, I need a man who honors his priesthood so we can have blessings, he is trying every method to put the blame in my lap, and men will support men. I will take the advice to see an counselor, I need someone to talk to. Bishop just keeps scolding me, my brain swirls round and round.
My experience is that almost everyone who has screwed up big time tries to justify their behavior somewhat by pointing out that the people they hurt helped drive them to it. It isn't gender specific, but it is selfish and indicative that perhaps full responsibility by the guilty party hasn't been taken.

My experience with Bishops is that when confronted with a situation where an eternal family might be split up, they focus completely on keeping the family together and not on the actual feelings of those involved. I would imagine your husband is acting repentant now and so anytime you express your feelings you are being deemed the problem as you are the negative one.

if this is what is happening I sympathize with you. It is unfair and doesn't allow you to actually heal from what has happened.

And I apologize for posting in the Ladies only section if that is considered inappropriate.

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

Bee Prepared wrote:
WarMonger wrote:LOL: The men of the church are always wrong - no doubt about it.
Ask to be refereed to LDS social services, my experience they are all woman counselors - and reports I have received, they grind the men to powder.
One or two (usually that is all it takes) meeting with LDS social services councilor your husband will be beaten to pulp and you will be proven correct!!
I need help, I am so confused. I think you are correct, another woman to talk to. I hesitate to talk to friends or sisters, because I want this to be confidential. You people don't know who I am, and I appreciate the advice. My experience with this church has always serving, I have never asked for help or been to the Bishop with a problem. I am in shock as to how he is treating me!
You won't believe me but I have been in that position 3 times first at the age of 24 I was called as a BP. Counseling is tough - but just about every situation the basics of the gospel like pray, scripture study etc was not being kept. People refuse to take advice because it requires repentance. When they don't get what they want/vindication from the Bishop then the Bishop is wrong. The stake pres prob get like 10 calls a week saying the Bishop said this or that, after a while they get thick skinned.

Marriage is never about who is right and who is wrong, it takes 2 to tango. If the discussion goes he said, she said, he did she did: that never ends well - don't expect the Bishop to get involved with that. It is about lets keep the basics repent and become more spiritual and the prob solves itself, even if you are not wrong suck it up and things will get better, the other party will then concede as well.

I am a complete psychopath and have no understanding of human relations, I counseled people by reading hundreds of scriptures and by the time I am finished with them, they realize whatever their marriage problems were it is not as bad as listening to me. :ymsick: :ymsick:



64:10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.
11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.
12 And him that repenteth not of his sins, and confesseth them not, ye shall bring before the church, and do with him as the scripture saith unto you, either by commandment or by revelation.

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WarMonger
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by WarMonger »

passionflower wrote:
I'm another woman to talk to.

A man's greatest social need is to be RESPECTED.

When a woman says her husband is emotionally or verbally abusing her, she is actually just experiencing him defending himself from her disrespect. He would not call his defense tactics "abuse" and neither would another man, no matter how rough they were.

If you want a divorce, Libermama has clearly shown you the road to go down. And doesn't she sound very happy and successful, does she ? And all the schooling marraige counselors go through is thoroughly saturated with feminist dogma, like Warmonger so clearly stated, so I'm sure they can help you to a divorce, too. And it will ALL be "his" fault. With all his unrighteous dominion or something. Your intentions were only to be a "good wife and mother", that's all, and you will be vindicated :ymapplause:

You can go ahead with all that. Or you can put the power in your corner and solve this frustrating painful problem without going to the Bishop or anyone else. Except me, that is.......

If this was my husband, I could solve this problem and turn him into a loving kitty cat purring in my lap in short order!

Of course, Beep, you can just settle for the instant validation Marc gave you up there and proceed on that "it's all his fault" premise. But you will have all eternity to look back on this marraige failure. I'd rather have no regrets. How about you?

First question:" Do you love your husband?"
, If I ever get into counseling position again, not likely to happen the Stake pres thinks I am less active. I will pay you handsomely for advice to appease the masses. You have enlightened my understanding.

Vision
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Vision »

Bee Prepared wrote: Testimony shaking if you will.

I'm glad it is testimony shaking for you. Now you can loose your testimony of men and begin the process of being converted to Christ and Christ only.

read 2 Nephi 4:34. 2 Nephi 28:31, D&C 1:19

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Etana
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by Etana »

Listen to the spirit, and you will know what to do about your relationship. Part of navigating this life is discerning who we can trust. I wouldn't rely on a bishop to give guidance in personal matters. Growing up, a bishop told my friend's mom that if she would just wear make-up and do her hair, her husband would stop frequenting prostitutes. He also didn't believe he was sexually, physically, and emotionally abusing their daughters. At seventeen, I took another friend to our bishop to show him the bruises her older married brother/guardian put on her body when he repeatedly hit her with a belt. The bishop said the brother was just spanking her-I told him 17 year olds don't get spanked, and they certainly don't have bruises and welts all over their bodies as a result. My dad (stake president) had to get involved to get her removed from the house, as the bishop glossed it over, saying the brother had the priesthood, and he had the right to discipline her. As an adult, I have had a stake president tell me he was going to give me a blessing to help make me believe in the correctness of polygamy. (Uh... that blessing was refused)! I could go on and on...but I am sure if I do, I will be branded as bashing the church and its leaders. I am just saying from my experiences, please go with prayer, what feels right to your spirit, and have the courage to do what is best for your situation. That course of action may be something that is contrary to what your leader is telling you. I was taught blind obedience growing up, but thankfully over recent years have learned it isn't for me.

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theBruceGuy
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Re: Do Bishops side with the men?

Post by theBruceGuy »

I am sad to say from my experience that even the best meaning Bishops will give poor advice in marriage situations. they are not trained, they sometimes have no clue, and even though some turn to prayer, they are often no better than the rest of us in receiving inspiration.

I have attended "Landmark Forums" and have witnessed there amazing changes in people and their relationships. If I was you, I would go and attend a weekend even if it was on my own, it will still benefit. It is not religious, it is self help and I have met LDS presenters there as well as many LDS attendees. It can seem weird and not heading anywhere, but if stay until the Sunday evening, the clarification you receive about you and your life is amazing. It just all comes into focus at about 4pm Sunday :)

Hope all goes well in your quest.

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