husband trying to recover from porn addiction

[iWriteStuff]

I read this article yesterday which tells the story of three sex addicts and the hardships they endured.... worth a read, if you want to understand the underlying motives and issues some addicts face:

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relati ... a7b4002df9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fiannan]

I read this article yesterday which tells the story of three sex addicts and the hardships they endured.... worth a read, if you want to understand the underlying motives and issues some addicts face:

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relati ... a7b4002df9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the article:

“At school I’d hide magazines and obsess over when I could look at them. The adrenaline of acquiring and hiding pornography was a potent aspect of the addiction because of the possibility of discovery and humiliation.”

This could be defined as negative reinforcement. The thrill was in the fact a person knows how wrong it is, and avoiding the punishing stimulus brings with it a hormonal rush -- kind of like couples who get intimate in a public place (known a few seemingly conservative people who think this is really fun - the chance of getting caught). I suspect that we are raising a whole generation that will mimic this if we obsess about porn. The bigger deal made, the bigger the temptation. Like if I were to tell you "Do not, repeat do not think about the color green because green is a sin." So how many shades of green are you thinking about right now? That does not mean you should not warn about the bad (sinful) aspects of porn, but if one goes overboard then it is like pouring gasoline on a stove to stop a grease fire.

[Sirocco]

Makes sense, when I was young porn wasn't a taboo, when I was young it had it's thrill but it quickly burned out because, well it's not real and when you grow up and can just google it, hardly any mystique involved.
Real people are the mystique!

[kawa17]

As a professional, I can tell you that porn addiction is NOT a Utah phenomenon, nor is it limited to religious people. There are physiological changes in the brain associated with porn that aren't associated with sexual activity with another person, and these changes and chemical responses become "addictive" for lack of a better term. It is not addictive in the sense that heroin is addictive; they don't get sick and have physical symptoms from withdrawal. But it is a compulsive disorder and is physically driven by brain chemistry just as any compulsive disorder is.

Breaking the "feedback loop" that rewards the brain can have a big impact. His brain will begin to tell him that if he doesn't engage in this activity, he will suffer (whatever--a bad feeling, something he will miss out on, etc.). If he knows this, and is prepared, and has support from either the ARC group (I'd recommend at least 3-5 meetings a week if it is available, if not, find a good Sex Addicts Anonymous group in your area) or a professional counselor that can do intensive work for a period of time (up to 3 months of meeting 3 times a week).

It is possible to recover. However, just like an alcoholic can never safely have a drink again, he must realize that for him, all sexual activity should be with another person with whom he has a committed relationship (that's the recommendation of the SAA program, a 12-Step recovery program), and one that is very sensible. That includes having sex with himself.

I realize that doesn't exactly fit what some want to hear, but that's what the professionals are seeing work best. As for your part, his wife, the best thing you can do is nurture your own emotional and spiritual health. Take a look at any of your own compulsive-type behaviors (food, spending money, etc.) that might be enabling his, or allowing him to justify his behavior. Also look at getting support for yourself, either in the ARC groups, or with a professional counselor as well.

When he has been able to handle it for a time, and is on the recovery road, I strongly urge you to work on your marriage through a professional. The dynamics of pornography has a serious impact on trust, on intimacy, and on many areas of your relationship. It doesn't just "go away" even after the behavior has stopped.

May you find the answers you seek, and the peace that evades your family right now. The Savior has the answers, but our mortal minds and hearts sometimes need a little help accessing that love and hope and healing.

Interesting discussion, I have a couple serious questions regarding this issue:
1) If I were to look at pictures of deer and elk or perhaps motorcycles and cars for an hour every day, would that be bad? Would I have the same physiological changes to my brain that one might have with porn? If not, how come? I'm spending the same amount of time looking at pictures on the internet, shouldn't it have the same effect on my brain?
2) If I were to take nude pictures of my wife and then view them on the computer each day, would that be acceptable? If I look at my wife in the nude, in person, for an hour each day, would that be acceptable? What is the difference between each of these activities? Would I still have the same deleterious physiological effect on my brain with each of these activities?

If anyone has logical answers to these questions, I would appreciate hearing them to further my understanding.

[Matchmaker]

The chemical stimulation that brings about sexual addiction by intensifying the feelings of arousal only seems to take place when one is doing something illegal, immoral, secretive, shameful, dangerous, and or forbidden. IMO that's one of the ways Lucifer blesses us for doing his bidding instead of our Heavenly Father's.

[Sirocco]

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

[Fiannan]

The chemical stimulation that brings about sexual addiction by intensifying the feelings of arousal only seems to take place when one is doing something illegal, immoral, secretive, shameful, dangerous, and or forbidden. IMO that's one of the ways Lucifer blesses us for doing his bidding instead of our Heavenly Father's.

That is true. This is why people from conservative backgrounds are more prone to develop porn habits. If they give in to temptation (note that sex is an instinctive drive though) and look at porn they will get a greater hit than someone who grows up in a home where it is not treated in as big of a deal. Afterwards they will feel shame and to combat that guilt and depression they will use porn as a type of medication, thus repeating the cycle over and over again. So there is the irony, if you give a talk against porn you likely, other than stimulate younger children's curiosity to find out what all the fuss is, you trigger the adult who is trying not to use it and almost guarantee that he (or she) will be doing some searches on the net later that day.

As a teen I never quite understood the fascination that some of my more conservative friends had with porn. I of course appreciated the female form as much as anyone else but my parents never made a fuss over it and, growing up in the Pacific Northwest, and being an avid swimmer, one very, very often encountered naked women at the local swimming holes. So I knew what women looked like and also knew that sex and nudity were not synonymous with each other. So yes, even as a teen guy I wound up in conversations with naked women about politics, religion and nature. And seeing them as just any other person, knowing you had no emotional connections to them, you didn't want to take it to another step any more than a guy in a Turkish bathhouse is lusting after the men they are speaking to. This of course does not reduce desire in women any more than men who grow up in primitive villages (where the norm is nudity) feel less desire for women. It doesn't. You organize your thoughts into appropriate categories.

So there you have the catch 22. You need to teach people proper principles. Looking at porn facilitates the marginalization of moral principles because you are paying people to engage in sex, and then many people substitute real relationship goals for a vicarious experience. Yet if you harp about it then you actually wind up not only increasing curiosity, and fixation, but also make it more chemically-rewarding for the person struggling with it when he or she returns to the habit.

So what to do?

[Yahtzee]

:ymtongue:

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

I like that. I'm gonna use it with my kids. Only I'll say your brain thinks you're scoring 12s - since none of that is real anyway.

[Fiannan]

:ymtongue:

I think with porn, like you're looking at all these idealistic people and your brain doesn't understand that you're not there with them, it just sees them and thinks you're scoring tens a lot and then sees real regular people and they're not 10s and your brain can't deal.
It's not the same with other things, because porn tricks your brain where like cars don't. You don't find yourself unable to drive because all you do is fawn over DeLoreans and you own a beater.

I like that. I'm gonna use it with my kids. Only I'll say your brain thinks you're scoring 12s - since none of that is real anyway.

I will note that women who star in porn are far more realistic than the women who grace the covers of the magazines that cater to young girls and women.

Their pics are digitized and made into Atlantian ideals of beauty that real women cannot attain to -- that is why women are not secure with their own bodies. Porn, at least the mainstream stuff, is at least real in the context of real actresses. Actors not so much. There is an absolutely fantastic article against porn I read recently. I cannot link it because it is also a bit explicit. However, a studio graphics expert examined films featuring men and proved that it is common practice to make men...well, more endowed than they really are in real life. In another article I read it noted that it is common practice to have male actors use injections that create an unreal image of endurance. So there you have male viewers feeling inadequate and female viewers believing that all males should be as they are in the movies they see.

[Sirocco]

Having grown up in a non religious household pornography wasn't an issue, and as such I never saw anything special in it. I mean it was there enough when I was younger, not nearly as much now since I peruse real people.
Since I can't see a situation where I'll ever get married (I don't want to be with single mothers or women who slept around a ton and are ready to "settle down" I'd really just prefer being single and those are the only sorts of people who want any actual relationship with me, so no thanks).
While I don't see it as a mountain of a problem, it was never made to be that for me so it never held any mystique, any taboo, it just exists.

[Fiannan]

Having grown up in a non religious household pornography wasn't an issue, and as such I never saw anything special in it. I mean it was there enough when I was younger, not nearly as much now since I peruse real people.
Since I can't see a situation where I'll ever get married (I don't want to be with single mothers or women who slept around a ton and are ready to "settle down" I'd really just prefer being single and those are the only sorts of people who want any actual relationship with me, so no thanks).
While I don't see it as a mountain of a problem, it was never made to be that for me so it never held any mystique, any taboo, it just exists.

You only need one whose reproductive system is not a public playground. Yes, many women in their 20s play the "carousel" (will not use the full term) until they start noticing that they look like their mothers did when they were in middle school -- after all, these young women, once they reach their early 30s, are the age their mothers were when they were 12. And they are not only single, but now the only sorts of guys who hit on them and buy them drinks are super-young guys with a fantasy for older women, or men who look (and act) like Joe Biden. So yes, they start looking for a safe man, one they would never date in their reproductive prime, so they can make a baby or two. Not sure how committed such women would be to the poor beta male. Of course many Mormon women have a sense of entitlement. They may be 40 pounds overweight but they want Mr. Perfect...and of course become similar to the Mrs. Olsen character from Little House on the Prairie after a few kids.

So yes, there are pitfalls out there in the dating game but there are women who are genuine out there. And I still have faith that most young LDS women are not overweight Disney princesses. Again, you only need to find one and it is a buyer's market in Utah with so many young men avoiding Church due to people harping about issues like porn.

[Sirocco]

Isn't Utah really hot?
My father lives in Texas and he says it's really hot there, I've only ever been during the winter. I know they're not close to eachother but Canada doesn't have such heat. I am used to cold and winter lol.
I have heard the gender gap in the church, going all across the US and Canada. Men don't like getting crapped on and will leave before women do, we're less emotional and I guess less committed to an institution, especially one that doesn't often like them.
Though I generally have little faith in my abilities in terms of keeping a marriage together, I can't imagine a woman being patient and kind about my faults.
But that's just me.

[plainness]

Utah momma, my heart goes out to you.

There is such an economy of responses out there to your heart cry! Most of it is mitigation, perspective, therapeutic strategy.

Too bad our culture is so burdened with institutional piety, religious shame, silly expressions of devotion and often wooden and ineffectual presentations of God and who He is. From pew and pulpit both.

I notice a wary cynicism in many of the responses to your post. Can I offer a fresh voice?

Trying to find the bright and potent spirit of break-through in a given cross section of Mormons is difficult. But a fresh awakening of faith in Christ is far better for you and for your husband than anyone else's "go-through."

Please understand, I'm not talking about getting up earlier to read more ensign articles. Or doing more endowment sessions, or pouring in a further measure of effort in your church calling to gain favor with God for your husband's sake.

Maybe the best thing for you, if your faith feels tired and your heart is wounded, is to discover God in a fresh way.

Do you ever get time to listen to audio? Dan Mohler comes to mind as I read this thread. When you hear someone who is completely set free in Christ, you become fascinated with the permission that individual has to touch God and be touched by Grace.

Get on that journey that your heart is longing for, to manifest courageous love. Learn the power of speaking Life. And don't wait for your church, culture, friends and family to impart this to you.

And meanwhile, listen to people who thrive in this way. People who defeat addictions in others with spiritual power and effectual love.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd ... v03vcOubK9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[freedomforall]

Read this: Putting on the Armor of God: How to Win Your Battles with Satan

[Fiannan]

When men have sex it builds their faith in God:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1853651 ... ve-in-god/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice how many men are leaving the Church lately as opposed to women?

[freedomforall]

When men have sex it builds their faith in God:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1853651 ... ve-in-god/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice how many men are leaving the Church lately as opposed to women?

I'll pass.

Listen to this instead:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/05/sund ... sten=audio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sirocco]

That was a really nice talk, though he is right about men leaving the church at higher rates, I mean that's true for most religions.
(I would like a literal sheep app).

I don't listen to uplifting things enough, sometimes I get too caught up in negatives, when life is starting to go well, ironic.

[skmo]

Interesting discussion, I have a couple serious questions regarding this issue:
1) If I were to look at pictures of deer and elk or perhaps motorcycles and cars for an hour every day, would that be bad? Would I have the same physiological changes to my brain that one might have with porn? If not, how come? I'm spending the same amount of time looking at pictures on the internet, shouldn't it have the same effect on my brain?

Pictures of naked people as porn is designed to stimulate your desire to have sex with the people you're looking at, or at least to fantasize about it. If you look at pictures of deer and elk and you have a desire to have sex, you have a lot worse problems than just porn addiction.

You highlight on another problem: Looking at porn can take up vast swaths of time. Unless you're REALLY strange, you're not going to look at a picture of an elk for 5 hours a day. The pursuit of porn takes up time that should be spent on better things. If you're spending hours a day looking at wildlife (or motorcycles, or whatever) if it's not something directly related to your job or other legitimate responsibility, isn't that time better spent on something more productive?

2) If I were to take nude pictures of my wife and then view them on the computer each day, would that be acceptable? If I look at my wife in the nude, in person, for an hour each day, would that be acceptable?

That one I can't answer, but I hope the answer is yes. I will say that your question is close to one of the reasons I not only secure my computer login, I also have some folders encrypted.

What is the difference between each of these activities?

Appropriate vs. inappropriate sexual desires. If I look at my wife and think of sexual things it means my marriage is still working. If I look at your wife and think of sexual things it means my repentance is not working (at least not completely.)

[Sirocco]

Well I don't think Birding is a waste of time, it doesn't cut into my job or anything...
Life isn't about being productive all the time, I think that sort of thinking breeds unhappiness and dissatisfaction with everything.
I don't hate my job because it gives me money to enjoy the things I actually care about.
And while one can surely make plenty of cons for pornography, I don't really see any for birding.

[freedomforall]

Well I don't think Birding is a waste of time, it doesn't cut into my job or anything...
Life isn't about being productive all the time, I think that sort of thinking breeds unhappiness and dissatisfaction with everything.
I don't hate my job because it gives me money to enjoy the things I actually care about.
And while one can surely make plenty of cons for pornography, I don't really see any for birding.

Beemobile.jpg (33.36 KiB) Viewed 4375 times

It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Jetmen and a plane.

[Fiannan]

Anyone old enough to remember going to stake dances where the song, "The Andrea True Connection - More, More, More" was played?

Did you ever actually analyze the lyrics?

[Sirocco]

I forgot about this subject, I don't live for work, I live for my personal pursuits. In the past I would have probably been married with a slew of children but I don't have a high figure income so women aren't interested in my sort until they get into their 30s and... Yeah I don't want them by then.
If I could, like find someone who wouldn't financially ruin me or emotionally destroy me and someone I could actually trust I'd want the whole shebang, but as it stands I am positive everyone is out for money and it will end loveless and I'll just lose everything.
I fell down he birding route, better spiritually and mentally.

[Fiannan]

In the past I would have probably been married with a slew of children but I don't have a high figure income so women aren't interested in my sort until they get into their 30s and... Yeah I don't want them by then.

I am not so concerned with the man or woman who occasionally uses porn if their spouse is not as into sex as they are. Heck, porn has probably reduced the rate of extra-marital affairs (men messing around on their wives) but perhaps has increased the number of wives having same-sex affairs behind their husband's back.

And porn is not going away - ever. I have a friend who teaches a class on introductory law and civil liberties. He told me last week he wanted a debate on porn: make it illegal or not? In his class of 100 (mostly 18 year-olds) a SJW stated things off with saying it should be restricted due to concerns he had on women's equality. He was savaged by the females in the class. Another guy said porn was immoral, and he too was the center of the women jumping his case in defense of porn. Welcome to 2016 everyone. Women like porn. Women watch porn. And it is affecting their views on sexuality big time. Ask any group of college-age young women at large what their sexuality is. Bi-sexuality and pan-sexuality is the new normal. Where are they getting this? A lot will confide that they enjoy watching porn and that was their first introduction to the idea of women being intimate with women. I would doubt that though since every sit com and prime-time TV program seems to have at least one lesbian sub-plot, and more are exploring male-male romantic plots.

Okay, back my main worry about porn. Many males are substituting porn for seeking long-term relationships. In porn a man can find anything he wants. Young men like older women, older men like younger women, racists like inter-racial plots and...well, it goes on and on. And that is not going to be the end. I saw a documentary a while back that women seeking sperm donors at one clinic can actually meet the donor using virtual reality and have a romantic encounter. So when the child is created the woman can at least tell him or her something about the father that she, in reality, never met. In the future there will be virtual reality in which people will be able to have an affair with someone anywhere in the world as if they really were there (think the series Caprica). And who needs Westworld when they can live any fantasy in the comfort of their home? The really bad part of this is that reproduction in the future will involve single or lesbian women obtaining sperm from clinics that will screen out all but the most desirable of donors. This will be the eugenic future envisioned by people like Huxley. Reproduction will be entirely divorced from sex. Population will drop as most men leave the mating game. The porn culture is the first step and therefore takes on far more drastic implications than "porn is bad" slogans thrown around the internet.

[zionminded]

You may find this interesting:
http://www.mormonmatters.org/2016/10/13 ... rnography/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Listen to both podcasts.

My personal belief is very close to this content in the podcast link above. As a therapist, I feel the best treatment is through a compulsion model, not a addiction one. We don't teach about sexuality at all, and some only address porn separately and you cannot. Porn can be unhealthy, maladaptive, harmful or even criminal, however it is often normative for many people (though at a certain level of spiritual progression it is always limiting). The podcast is great!

[Sirocco]

You may find this interesting:
http://www.mormonmatters.org/2016/10/13 ... rnography/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Listen to both podcasts.

My personal belief is very close to this content in the podcast link above. As a therapist, I feel the best treatment is through a compulsion model, not a addiction one. We don't teach about sexuality at all, and some only address porn separately and you cannot. Porn can be unhealthy, maladaptive, harmful or even criminal, however it is often normative for many people (though at a certain level of spiritual progression it is always limiting). The podcast is great!

I'll give that a watch.
I have said it before, not everyone will have a partner, or a happy marriage, but like anything humans spiral into madness with everything lol