The Sealed Book of Mormon

[The Airbender]

I wasn't planning on sharing this yet, but I have started seeing it pop up in different places on the internet, and I feel like I should say something.


There is a book that has just been published under the name of The Sealed Book of Mormon. I saw a post about it on another forum and skeptically clicked the Amazon link, which I will post here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/17...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


There have been many people claiming to have found the sealed portion, the Book of Lehi, etc and I have never found any merit in their claims, or they have never actually produced material to be reviewed, but have sought money or other support.


You can read the introduction of the book for free on Amazon. That's what I did. When I finished, I felt a distinct impression to buy it. I think it was about $5.50 when I bought it, and it has since been reduced to something like $4.50. Anyway, I received the book in the mail a couple of days ago and have read about half of it.


While I was waiting for the book to come in the mail I wanted to look up the people who are responsible for producing the book but was clearly told not to, but rather to wait and just read the book.



I have spent some time reflecting on the things I have read in the book and also about the coming forth of The Book of Mormon in 1830. I wondered to myself what it would have been like to hear about some treasure digging boy from a poor family who supposedly found a gold bible in the woods and was now selling copies of its purported translation.


I still don't know anything about the people who wrote this book. What I do know is that they didn't write it. There have been over a dozen things that the spirit has taught me over the last few years, things I have had to search far and wide to read about in many different places. This book has confirmed all of them to me. All of them, right here in the same place.


I feel the same confirmation about this book as I do about the Book of Mormon.



I invite everyone, if you feel so directed, to look into this book. I would like to share the many things that have stood out to me in this book, and I might in a later post, but for now I will leave it at that.

[Alaris]

Well that is unexpected. Do you feel you can share any of those dozen or so things?

[drtanner]

Matthew 24:24

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[Zathura]

I wasn't planning on sharing this yet, but I have started seeing it pop up in different places on the internet, and I feel like I should say something.


There is a book that has just been published under the name of The Sealed Book of Mormon. I saw a post about it on another forum and skeptically clicked the Amazon link, which I will post here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/17...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


There have been many people claiming to have found the sealed portion, the Book of Lehi, etc and I have never found any merit in their claims, or they have never actually produced material to be reviewed, but have sought money or other support.


You can read the introduction of the book for free on Amazon. That's what I did. When I finished, I felt a distinct impression to buy it. I think it was about $5.50 when I bought it, and it has since been reduced to something like $4.50. Anyway, I received the book in the mail a couple of days ago and have read about half of it.


While I was waiting for the book to come in the mail I wanted to look up the people who are responsible for producing the book but was clearly told not to, but rather to wait and just read the book.



I have spent some time reflecting on the things I have read in the book and also about the coming forth of The Book of Mormon in 1830. I wondered to myself what it would have been like to hear about some treasure digging boy from a poor family who supposedly found a gold bible in the woods and was now selling copies of its purported translation.


I still don't know anything about the people who wrote this book. What I do know is that they didn't write it. There have been over a dozen things that the spirit has taught me over the last few years, things I have had to search far and wide to read about in many different places. This book has confirmed all of them to me. All of them, right here in the same place.


I feel the same confirmation about this book as I do about the Book of Mormon.



I invite everyone, if you feel so directed, to look into this book. I would like to share the many things that have stood out to me in this book, and I might in a later post, but for now I will leave it at that.

As I shared elsewhere, I predicted that it would be proven fictitious by the lack of doctrine of Christ which is everywhere in the Book of Mormon but only really noticed by those who have been “awakened to it”.
I read 50 pages and skimmed through the rest, and sure enough I found almost no references to the Doctrine of Christ and what seems like a million references to Priesthood and priesthood keys, which to me is exactly what I would expect someone to publish if they are trying to start a church and need to find a way to claim authority. Funny enough, the Book of Mormon almost never talks about priesthood, and when it does it’s not at all like in this book.

I don’t believe it.

I knelt down and prayed sincerely before I started and in addition to not making sense to my mind, I’ve received no answer regarding the book.

[John Tavner]

I wasn't planning on sharing this yet, but I have started seeing it pop up in different places on the internet, and I feel like I should say something.


There is a book that has just been published under the name of The Sealed Book of Mormon. I saw a post about it on another forum and skeptically clicked the Amazon link, which I will post here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/17...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


There have been many people claiming to have found the sealed portion, the Book of Lehi, etc and I have never found any merit in their claims, or they have never actually produced material to be reviewed, but have sought money or other support.


You can read the introduction of the book for free on Amazon. That's what I did. When I finished, I felt a distinct impression to buy it. I think it was about $5.50 when I bought it, and it has since been reduced to something like $4.50. Anyway, I received the book in the mail a couple of days ago and have read about half of it.


While I was waiting for the book to come in the mail I wanted to look up the people who are responsible for producing the book but was clearly told not to, but rather to wait and just read the book.



I have spent some time reflecting on the things I have read in the book and also about the coming forth of The Book of Mormon in 1830. I wondered to myself what it would have been like to hear about some treasure digging boy from a poor family who supposedly found a gold bible in the woods and was now selling copies of its purported translation.


I still don't know anything about the people who wrote this book. What I do know is that they didn't write it. There have been over a dozen things that the spirit has taught me over the last few years, things I have had to search far and wide to read about in many different places. This book has confirmed all of them to me. All of them, right here in the same place.


I feel the same confirmation about this book as I do about the Book of Mormon.



I invite everyone, if you feel so directed, to look into this book. I would like to share the many things that have stood out to me in this book, and I might in a later post, but for now I will leave it at that.

As I shared elsewhere, I predicted that it would be proven fictitious by the lack of doctrine of Christ which is everywhere in the Book of Mormon but only really noticed by those who have been “awakened to it”.
I read 50 pages and skimmed through the rest, and sure enough I found almost no references to the Doctrine of Christ and what seems like a million references to Priesthood and priesthood keys, which to me is exactly what I would expect someone to publish if they are trying to start a church and need to find a way to claim authority. Funny enough, the Book of Mormon almost never talks about priesthood, and when it does it’s not at all like in this book.

I don’t believe it.

Yeah, my guess is (and I could be totally incorrect) is that the lost 116 pages spells out clearly the Doctrine of Christ i.e. shows us even more clearly how to apply and receive teh gift of the HOly Ghost. Then, the sealed portion is more clear on ways individuals received their second comforter - building upon the Doctrine of Christ. It probably helps show us a path and helps us to bleieve more.

[jsk]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

[Zathura]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

[drtanner]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

[Zathura]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

No, but that’s not a good comparison.

[Zathura]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

A more accurate and honest question would be:

Once you prove the law of gravity, do you need to test electromagnetism?
Once you prove electromagnetism do you need to prove (Insert scientific/natural law).

The catch all phrase of "If you know the Book of Mormon is true then everything else we are told in church is true" is a trap you shouldn't fall into. You should obtain knowledge that Tithing is of God by testing it, likewise by going to church, partaking of the sacrament and everything else in life. One by one. You won't know that tithing is of God by reading the Book of Mormon. You won't know that fasting is a true doctrine of God by living the law of chastity. You obey the law of chastity to find it's fruits, likewise with tithing and everything else.

You don't KNOW all those things are true if you only know one of them. It doesn't work like that. You might think everything else is true, it might seem logical, but you can't say that you know it.

edit: Corrected grammar and added sentence about chastity

[I AM]

the "sealed " portion of the Book of Mormon contains the Brother of Jared's vision (Ether 4:4)
and the large plates of Nephi, which contain the words of Christ (3 Nephi 26:7)
and will ONLY be brought forth by the power of God (by "baring His "arm" )- through His "arm" - the Lord's end-time servant; and when we are
ready to receive it.

Satan is THE DECEIVER and knows that these records are about to be revealed.
And he IS THE COUNTERFEIT and always has the counterfeit.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=51150&p=923201&hil ... th#p923201


The Davidic servant will be the one who brings forth the words of Christ
(sealed portion)to the Gentiles.

A choice seer among Joseph's descendants - the prophet Joseph Smith -
would bring forth the word of God to them out of the dust.

2 Nephi 3

6 For Joseph truly testified, saying: A seer shall the Lord my God raise up, who shall be a choice seer unto the fruit of my loins.

7 Yea, Joseph truly said: Thus saith the Lord unto me: A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins. And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers.

8 And I will give unto him a commandment that he shall do none other work, save the work which I shall command him. And I will make him great in mine eyes; for he shall do my work.

9 And he shall be great like unto Moses, whom I have said I would raise up unto you, to deliver my people, O house of Israel.

10 And Moses will I raise up, to deliver thy people out of the land of Egypt.

11 But a seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word unto the seed of thy loins—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them.


13 And out of weakness he shall be made strong, in that day when my work shall commence among all my people, unto the restoring thee, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.

14 And thus prophesied Joseph, saying: Behold, that seer will the Lord bless; and they that seek to destroy him shall be confounded; for this promise, which I have obtained of the Lord, of the fruit of my loins, shall be fulfilled. Behold, I am sure of the fulfilling of this promise;

15 And his name shall be called after me; and it shall be after the name of his father. And he shall be like unto me; for the thing, which the Lord shall bring forth by his hand, by the power of the Lord shall bring my people unto salvation.

16 Yea, thus prophesied Joseph: I am sure of this thing, even as I am sure of the promise of Moses; for the Lord hath said unto me, I will preserve thy seed forever.


The Lord thus prepared the way for bringing together His covenant people
and their records in the latter-days, beginning with the prophet Joseph Smith.

Among the Gentiles come forth ancient records- the Book of Mormon
and "other books."
The Gentiles carry these books to the House of Israel in order to persuade them to believe in Christ. (1 Nephi 13:39-40; 2 Nephi 25:15-18)

At the center of this latter-day work of grafting, and it's involvement in the bring forth of ancient records, is the Lord's servant.
All the olive tree allegories assign to the Lord's servant the task of
reuniting Israel.
That task, therefore, places the servant's mission initially among the Gentiles
(compare Isaiah 42:1-6; 49:1-8) as restoring Israel is a role which the Gentiles perform.

The servant brings forth the words of Christ to the Gentiles
(3 Nephi 21:10-11
in other words, he reveals ancient records.

The Gentiles receive the first opportunity to accept or reject those records.
The servant additionally gathers Israel and Judah, and allocates their lands
of inheritance. (Isaiah 11:10-12; 49:8, 19-21).
In that work, the Gentiles assist him. (Isaiah 49:22;
compare 1 Nephi 22:4-12).

These responsibilities place a heavy burden on the Gentiles.
First, the Gentiles must demonstrate exceeding faith and righteousness.
In order to merit the coming forth of additional records, they must keep all
Jesus' commandments (D&C 93:18-20).
When the Gentiles exercise faith even as the brother of Jared, becoming clean and sanctified through Christ, then will the sealed portion of the
Book of Mormon come forth to them (Ether 4:5-7, 13).
The convincing power of ancient scriptural records makes their coming forth necessary.

Second,to convey the substance of these records to the Jews and Lehi's descendants, the Gentiles must themselves know and understand them.

So great is this challenge, in fact, that many Gentiles will not accept it.
Instead, they will reject the words of Christ, and be "cut off" as
bitter branches, from His people (3 Nephi 21:11


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viewtopic.php?f=14&t=50834&p=915969&hil ... th#p915969

the "greater knowledge" or actually called "great things" is the "sealed portion", and we will receive it - NOT when Christ comes; but when the Lord's end-time servant brings it to us when he comes.
But the church and most will reject him and Christ's words that he brings.

3 Nephi 21

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said)
they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

This is talking about the SEALED portion of the Book of Mormon that we have not been worthy enough to receive yet but it's coming.

Ether 4
4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.

5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.

6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.
------------
13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the
greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name,
with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.

17 Therefore, when ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land.

Mormon 8: 12
12 And whoso receiveth this record, and shall not condemn it because of the imperfections which are in it, the same shall know of greater things than these. Behold, I am Moroni; and were it possible, I would make all things known unto you.

We are still under condemnation for not putting Christ's words 1st
and for treating the Book of Mormon lightly, and for this very reason,
we have not received more of His word - The sealed portion.
And because we have not received this "greater things",
I think we (the church) have fulfilled verse 10.
3 Nephi 26
9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.
10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.
11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.

[jsk]

Stahura...What you are saying is accurate except for one glaring error. We (COJCOLDS) have the full truth. In fact, that is part of our doctrine...that this is Christ’s restored Church. We claim other religions have a part of the truth, but only the Church has the fullness.

Is there anything to be gained from learning about other religions? Sure...absolutely...I’m not against that. I have studied Islam and was surprised to learn they believe Jesus Christ was a prophet. And it’s interesting to learn the doctrines of other Christian faiths and to see our commonalities and differences.

And I’ll be the first to admit that Joseph Smith’s experience defies belief. And certainly one can make the argument that without willingness to read the Book of Mormon and put Moroni’s challenge to the test that none of us would have discovered its truth. But that is the miracle of it all...Moroni’s promise is sure and the BOM is true as is the COJCOLDS. And the further miracle is that the Lord has prompted and nudged and inspired so many to seek that truth and recognize it for what it is. But because I have found this truth I therefore have no need to search for another Church or to look for revelation to the world from any other source except the Lord’s established Prophets. Anyone else claiming they have received revelation for the world are liars at worst and deceived at best.

Certainly much additional revelation and scripture will be revealed to the world, but it will happen thru the institutional Church or at the very least be recognized and ratified by the President of the Church and Quorum of the Twelve.

[creator]

Stahura...What you are saying is accurate except for one glaring error. We (COJCOLDS) have the full truth.

I think if you look back to statements from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, you'll see them saying not that we have the "full truth" but that we embrace all truth no matter where it is found.

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth.”

[jsk]

I continue to be amazed by people who feel they have to evaluate the claims of every false prophet, charlatan and mentally ill person who claims revelation for the world. It must be exhausting because there certainly seems to be no shortage of such individuals.

In this day and age I don’t believe a document like this would not come forth in such a way. But if it did, it would be embraced and authenticated by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The fact that it hasn’t tells me all I need to know about it’s authenticity and it’s source. I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole just as I wouldn’t have anything to do with other anti-Mormon materials.

It is true that even the very elect will be deceived.

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

A more accurate and honest question would be:

Once you prove the law of gravity, do you need to test electromagnetism?
Once you prove electromagnetism do you need to prove (Insert scientific/natural law).

The catch all phrase of "If you know the Book of Mormon is true then everything else we are told in church is true" is a trap you shouldn't fall into. You should obtain knowledge that Tithing is of God by testing it, likewise by going to church, partaking of the sacrament and everything else in life. One by one. You won't know that tithing is of God by reading the Book of Mormon. You won't know that fasting is a true doctrine of God by living the law of chastity. You obey the law of chastity to find it's fruits, likewise with tithing and everything else.

You don't KNOW all those things are true if you only know one of them. It doesn't work like that. You might think everything else is true, it might seem logical, but you can't say that you know it.

edit: Corrected grammar and added sentence about chastity

I agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t have a testimony of tithing until I started faithfully paying it and out the Lord’s promises to the test. But what does that have to do at all with listening to and considering that someone outside the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles could possibly have received revelation meant for the world when His Church is fully functional upon the earth? The only conclusion I can draw is that such people don’t understand the concept of stewardship and Priesthood Keys or simply believe the Church has somehow lost its authority. Otherwise it doesn’t even make logical sense to me.

[Zathura]

Stahura...What you are saying is accurate except for one glaring error. We (COJCOLDS) have the full truth. In fact, that is part of our doctrine...that this is Christ’s restored Church. We claim other religions have a part of the truth, but only the Church has the fullness.

Is there anything to be gained from learning about other religions? Sure...absolutely...I’m not against that. I have studied Islam and was surprised to learn they believe Jesus Christ was a prophet. And it’s interesting to learn the doctrines of other Christian faiths and to see our commonalities and differences.

And I’ll be the first to admit that Joseph Smith’s experience defies belief. And certainly one can make the argument that without willingness to read the Book of Mormon and put Moroni’s challenge to the test that none of us would have discovered its truth. But that is the miracle of it all...Moroni’s promise is sure and the BOM is true as is the COJCOLDS. And the further miracle is that the Lord has prompted and nudged and inspired so many to seek that truth and recognize it for what it is. But because I have found this truth I therefore have no need to search for another Church or to look for revelation to the world from any other source except the Lord’s established Prophets. Anyone else claiming they have received revelation for the world are liars at worst and deceived at best.

Certainly much additional revelation and scripture will be revealed to the world, but it will happen thru the institutional Church or at the very least be recognized and ratified by the President of the Church and Quorum of the Twelve.

I appreciate the response. I'll just point to Brian's post above though ^^

[Zathura]

Funny , the family of Investigators say the same crap to get them to not read the Book of Mormon.

Missionaries are taught to use the following to convince investigators that the Bible says we should be open minded and try all things to see if they are true :

1 Thessalonians 5:21
“Prove all things”
(Meaning TEST all things)

Or are Mormons above that? Everyone else should prove all things and pray about it, but no no no not us. Funny that so many would walk into a lesson with missionaries and tell investigators to be open minded and read something that their whole family and congregation says is an abomination and then return home and take on the exact role the investigator’s family and congregation was playing .



If you aren’t willing to do yourself what you would ask an investigator to do, maybe rethink some things.

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

A more accurate and honest question would be:

Once you prove the law of gravity, do you need to test electromagnetism?
Once you prove electromagnetism do you need to prove (Insert scientific/natural law).

The catch all phrase of "If you know the Book of Mormon is true then everything else we are told in church is true" is a trap you shouldn't fall into. You should obtain knowledge that Tithing is of God by testing it, likewise by going to church, partaking of the sacrament and everything else in life. One by one. You won't know that tithing is of God by reading the Book of Mormon. You won't know that fasting is a true doctrine of God by living the law of chastity. You obey the law of chastity to find it's fruits, likewise with tithing and everything else.

You don't KNOW all those things are true if you only know one of them. It doesn't work like that. You might think everything else is true, it might seem logical, but you can't say that you know it.

edit: Corrected grammar and added sentence about chastity

I agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t have a testimony of tithing until I started faithfully paying it and out the Lord’s promises to the test. But what does that have to do at all with listening to and considering that someone outside the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles could possibly have received revelation meant for the world when His Church is fully functional upon the earth? The only conclusion I can draw is that such people don’t understand the concept of stewardship and Priesthood Keys or simply believe the Church has somehow lost its authority. Otherwise it doesn’t even make logical sense to me.

That's okay, I happen to believe that God will perform much of his work through people that may not be Church leaders or might not even be members of the Church. Looking throughout the scripture, there is precedent for such a thing.

Edit: I'll add that Lectures on Faith is scripture, but those in the Q12 removed it from Canon, which I believe to be an enormous mistake, this is one of my reasons for not taking their word for it if they happen to say some specific book is or isn't scripture.I choose to find out for myself, like I did with Lectures on faith.

[jsk]

Stahura...What you are saying is accurate except for one glaring error. We (COJCOLDS) have the full truth.

I think if you look back to statements from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, you'll see them saying not that we have the "full truth" but that we embrace all truth no matter where it is found.

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth.”

Sure...and in context they were essentially saying that all religions contain some truth. But I believe it is a far stretch and incorrect to take this to mean that either Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have ever accepted the Lord revealing a sacred text to some excommunicated loser like the guy who allegedly received the sealed portion of the BOM. You know...that whole stewardship thing and all.

No wonder MLM scams are so prevalent among Mormons...so many are so unbelievably naive.

Why have a Church and why have Prophets if the Lord isn’t going to use them? And the answer is of course that he does and he would.

This is not to say we can’t learn much from other people in and out of the Church. But revelation to the world can only come one way so long as we have a fully functioning Church and recognized Prophets.

[jsk]

Once you prove the law of gravity do you need to keep testing it to see if it is true?

A more accurate and honest question would be:

Once you prove the law of gravity, do you need to test electromagnetism?
Once you prove electromagnetism do you need to prove (Insert scientific/natural law).

The catch all phrase of "If you know the Book of Mormon is true then everything else we are told in church is true" is a trap you shouldn't fall into. You should obtain knowledge that Tithing is of God by testing it, likewise by going to church, partaking of the sacrament and everything else in life. One by one. You won't know that tithing is of God by reading the Book of Mormon. You won't know that fasting is a true doctrine of God by living the law of chastity. You obey the law of chastity to find it's fruits, likewise with tithing and everything else.

You don't KNOW all those things are true if you only know one of them. It doesn't work like that. You might think everything else is true, it might seem logical, but you can't say that you know it.

edit: Corrected grammar and added sentence about chastity

I agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t have a testimony of tithing until I started faithfully paying it and out the Lord’s promises to the test. But what does that have to do at all with listening to and considering that someone outside the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles could possibly have received revelation meant for the world when His Church is fully functional upon the earth? The only conclusion I can draw is that such people don’t understand the concept of stewardship and Priesthood Keys or simply believe the Church has somehow lost its authority. Otherwise it doesn’t even make logical sense to me.

That's okay, I happen to believe that God will perform much of his work through people that may not be Church leaders or might not even be members of the Church. Looking throughout the scripture, there is precedent for such a thing.

Edit: I'll add that Lectures on Faith is scripture, but those in the Q12 removed it from Canon, which I believe to be an enormous mistake, this is one of my reasons for not taking their word for it if they happen to say some specific book is or isn't scripture.I choose to find out for myself, like I did with Lectures on faith.

Ok...well...at least I understand where you are coming from, even if I think you are misguided. Certainly most of the work done in these latter days will be done by those outside the high Church leadership...after all...there aren’t that many of them. But I believe it will be done under their guidance thru the Keys they have obtained via Jesus Christ.

I have neither the time nor inclination to evaluate the claims of those without Keys who claim revelation for the world. To me, that is a dead giveaway they are charlatans, false prophets, or mentally ill. There are so much better ways to spend my limited time. But it is certainly your prerogative if you wish to do so. I just see it as a colossal waste of time.

[Zathura]

A more accurate and honest question would be:

Once you prove the law of gravity, do you need to test electromagnetism?
Once you prove electromagnetism do you need to prove (Insert scientific/natural law).

The catch all phrase of "If you know the Book of Mormon is true then everything else we are told in church is true" is a trap you shouldn't fall into. You should obtain knowledge that Tithing is of God by testing it, likewise by going to church, partaking of the sacrament and everything else in life. One by one. You won't know that tithing is of God by reading the Book of Mormon. You won't know that fasting is a true doctrine of God by living the law of chastity. You obey the law of chastity to find it's fruits, likewise with tithing and everything else.

You don't KNOW all those things are true if you only know one of them. It doesn't work like that. You might think everything else is true, it might seem logical, but you can't say that you know it.

edit: Corrected grammar and added sentence about chastity

I agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t have a testimony of tithing until I started faithfully paying it and out the Lord’s promises to the test. But what does that have to do at all with listening to and considering that someone outside the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles could possibly have received revelation meant for the world when His Church is fully functional upon the earth? The only conclusion I can draw is that such people don’t understand the concept of stewardship and Priesthood Keys or simply believe the Church has somehow lost its authority. Otherwise it doesn’t even make logical sense to me.

That's okay, I happen to believe that God will perform much of his work through people that may not be Church leaders or might not even be members of the Church. Looking throughout the scripture, there is precedent for such a thing.

Edit: I'll add that Lectures on Faith is scripture, but those in the Q12 removed it from Canon, which I believe to be an enormous mistake, this is one of my reasons for not taking their word for it if they happen to say some specific book is or isn't scripture.I choose to find out for myself, like I did with Lectures on faith.

Ok...well...at least I understand where you are coming from, even if I think you are misguided. Certainly most of the work done in these latter days will be done by those outside the high Church leadership...after all...there aren’t that many of them. But I believe it will be done under their guidance thru the Keys they have obtained via Jesus Christ.

I have neither the time nor inclination to evaluate the claims of those without Keys who claim revelation for the world. To me, that is a dead giveaway they are charlatans, false prophets, or mentally ill. There are so much better ways to spend my limited time. But it is certainly your prerogative if you wish to do so. I just see it as a colossal waste of time.

One of the greatest decisions I made in my life was to engage in prayerful study of lectures on faith, words that are no longer considered scripture and canon in the church. Many people refuse to read them or are not interested because church leaders don’t tell them to read it. It was the exact opposite of a waste of time, yet if I listened to posts like yours I never would have considered it.

[Zathura]

Stahura...What you are saying is accurate except for one glaring error. We (COJCOLDS) have the full truth.

I think if you look back to statements from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, you'll see them saying not that we have the "full truth" but that we embrace all truth no matter where it is found.

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth. … The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth.”

Sure...and in context they were essentially saying that all religions contain some truth. But I believe it is a far stretch and incorrect to take this to mean that either Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have ever accepted the Lord revealing a sacred text to some excommunicated loser like the guy who allegedly received the sealed portion of the BOM. You know...that whole stewardship thing and all.

No wonder MLM scams are so prevalent among Mormons...so many are so unbelievably naive.

Why have a Church and why have Prophets if the Lord isn’t going to use them? And the answer is of course that he does and he would.

This is not to say we can’t learn much from other people in and out of the Church. But revelation to the world can only come one way so long as we have a fully functioning Church and recognized Prophets.

Maybe the Lord wants to use them but they haven’t yet done what’s needed in order to be what he wants them to be?

“
You have been indebted to other men, in the first instance, for evidence; on that you have acted; but it is necessary that you receive a testimony from heaven for yourselves; so that you can bear testimony to the truth of the Book of Mormon, and that you have seen the face of God. That is more than the testimony of an angel. When the proper time arrives, you shall be able to bear this testimony to the world. When you bear testimony that you have seen God, this testimony God will never suffer to fall, but will bear you out; although many will not give heed, yet others will. You will therefore see the necessity of getting this testimony from heaven.

Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face. Strengthen your faith; cast off you doubts, your sins, and all your unbelief; and nothing can prevent you from coming to God. Your ordination is not full and complete till God has laid His hand upon you. We require as much to qualify us as did those who have gone before us; God is the same. If the Savior in former days laid His hands upon His disciples, why not in latter days?“

[jsk]

I agree with what you are saying here. I didn’t have a testimony of tithing until I started faithfully paying it and out the Lord’s promises to the test. But what does that have to do at all with listening to and considering that someone outside the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles could possibly have received revelation meant for the world when His Church is fully functional upon the earth? The only conclusion I can draw is that such people don’t understand the concept of stewardship and Priesthood Keys or simply believe the Church has somehow lost its authority. Otherwise it doesn’t even make logical sense to me.

That's okay, I happen to believe that God will perform much of his work through people that may not be Church leaders or might not even be members of the Church. Looking throughout the scripture, there is precedent for such a thing.

Edit: I'll add that Lectures on Faith is scripture, but those in the Q12 removed it from Canon, which I believe to be an enormous mistake, this is one of my reasons for not taking their word for it if they happen to say some specific book is or isn't scripture.I choose to find out for myself, like I did with Lectures on faith.

Ok...well...at least I understand where you are coming from, even if I think you are misguided. Certainly most of the work done in these latter days will be done by those outside the high Church leadership...after all...there aren’t that many of them. But I believe it will be done under their guidance thru the Keys they have obtained via Jesus Christ.

I have neither the time nor inclination to evaluate the claims of those without Keys who claim revelation for the world. To me, that is a dead giveaway they are charlatans, false prophets, or mentally ill. There are so much better ways to spend my limited time. But it is certainly your prerogative if you wish to do so. I just see it as a colossal waste of time.

One of the greatest decisions I made in my life was to engage in prayerful study of lectures on faith, words that are no longer considered scripture and canon in the church. Many people refuse to read them or are not interested because church leaders don’t tell them to read it. It was the exact opposite of a waste of time, yet if I listened to posts like yours I never would have considered it.

But the Church has never disavowed Lectures on Faith...they are simply not part of our official canon of scripture. I can see the point...these were essentially lessons presented by Joseph Smith...inspired no doubt...full of gems undoubtedly...but scripture on par with the BOM or D&C? It’s debatable...and I love Lectures on Faith.

But I still don’t see the tie in with the topic of this discussion...which is would the Lord reveal scripture to the world to some random guy outside his established Church where the appropriate Keys are found. Hint...the answer is No!

[Zathura]

That's okay, I happen to believe that God will perform much of his work through people that may not be Church leaders or might not even be members of the Church. Looking throughout the scripture, there is precedent for such a thing.

Edit: I'll add that Lectures on Faith is scripture, but those in the Q12 removed it from Canon, which I believe to be an enormous mistake, this is one of my reasons for not taking their word for it if they happen to say some specific book is or isn't scripture.I choose to find out for myself, like I did with Lectures on faith.

Ok...well...at least I understand where you are coming from, even if I think you are misguided. Certainly most of the work done in these latter days will be done by those outside the high Church leadership...after all...there aren’t that many of them. But I believe it will be done under their guidance thru the Keys they have obtained via Jesus Christ.

I have neither the time nor inclination to evaluate the claims of those without Keys who claim revelation for the world. To me, that is a dead giveaway they are charlatans, false prophets, or mentally ill. There are so much better ways to spend my limited time. But it is certainly your prerogative if you wish to do so. I just see it as a colossal waste of time.

One of the greatest decisions I made in my life was to engage in prayerful study of lectures on faith, words that are no longer considered scripture and canon in the church. Many people refuse to read them or are not interested because church leaders don’t tell them to read it. It was the exact opposite of a waste of time, yet if I listened to posts like yours I never would have considered it.

But the Church has never disavowed Lectures on Faith...they are simply not part of our official canon of scripture. I can see the point...these were essentially lessons presented by Joseph Smith...inspired no doubt...full of gems undoubtedly...but scripture on par with the BOM or D&C? It’s debatable...and I love Lectures on Faith.

But I still don’t see the tie in with the topic of this discussion...which is would the Lord reveal scripture to the world to some random guy outside his established Church where the appropriate Keys are found. Hint...the answer is No!

It's true that their origin are not the same as this fictional "sealed book", but you get the idea. I personally put Lectures on Faith on par with the Book of Mormon and D&C because of the revelations I've received while studying them.

I repeat that there is precedent with "outsiders" doing God's work. Samuel and John The Baptist. God uses people you wouldn't expect. He could have used Nephi, "the President Nelson of their day", but he used Samuel instead. The bar by which we should judge all things should be the scriptures. The scriptures speak only a little of keys and priesthood while giving examples of God doing his work through "outsiders". Only time will tell.

The blessings and revelations that God has given me thus far in life have come because I was willing to give up anything, any unbelief and tradition in order to receive that which he in his wisdom wanted to give me. I'd be a fool to stop doing that now.

[jsk]

Ok...well...at least I understand where you are coming from, even if I think you are misguided. Certainly most of the work done in these latter days will be done by those outside the high Church leadership...after all...there aren’t that many of them. But I believe it will be done under their guidance thru the Keys they have obtained via Jesus Christ.

I have neither the time nor inclination to evaluate the claims of those without Keys who claim revelation for the world. To me, that is a dead giveaway they are charlatans, false prophets, or mentally ill. There are so much better ways to spend my limited time. But it is certainly your prerogative if you wish to do so. I just see it as a colossal waste of time.

One of the greatest decisions I made in my life was to engage in prayerful study of lectures on faith, words that are no longer considered scripture and canon in the church. Many people refuse to read them or are not interested because church leaders don’t tell them to read it. It was the exact opposite of a waste of time, yet if I listened to posts like yours I never would have considered it.

But the Church has never disavowed Lectures on Faith...they are simply not part of our official canon of scripture. I can see the point...these were essentially lessons presented by Joseph Smith...inspired no doubt...full of gems undoubtedly...but scripture on par with the BOM or D&C? It’s debatable...and I love Lectures on Faith.

But I still don’t see the tie in with the topic of this discussion...which is would the Lord reveal scripture to the world to some random guy outside his established Church where the appropriate Keys are found. Hint...the answer is No!

It's true that their origin are not the same as this fictional "sealed book", but you get the idea. I personally put Lectures on Faith on par with the Book of Mormon and D&C because of the revelations I've received while studying them.

I repeat that there is precedent with "outsiders" doing God's work. Samuel and John The Baptist. God uses people you wouldn't expect. He could have used Nephi, "the President Nelson of their day", but he used Samuel instead. The bar by which we should judge all things should be the scriptures. The scriptures speak only a little of keys and priesthood while giving examples of God doing his work through "outsiders". Only time will tell.

The blessings and revelations that God has given me thus far in life have come because I was willing to give up anything, any unbelief and tradition in order to receive that which he in his wisdom wanted to give me. I'd be a fool to stop doing that now.

Certainly the Lord can use anyone he wants to do his work and has used “outsiders” on occasion. But he’s only done so when it was necessary because there was no established and functional Church organization, including Prophets. And certainly Joseph Smith is the ultimate example of this.

But with things as they are today, what would be the need for the Lord to raise up someone like Joseph Smith? I’m not trying to limit the Lord either...I just think He has been very clear that miracles such as you describe are the exception and not the rule and will occur only when necessary to support His purposes. And I just don’t see the necessity given today’s circumstances and in view of a fully functional Church with Prophets and Keys.

In any event...I see where you are at and understand...even though I disagree.

[I AM]

My post "THE GENTILES - your future "
has much to do with the "sealed portion"
so I'm putting the link to it here.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=51261&p=924410#p924410

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Why waste money on this? If and when the sealed portion is revealed it will be to a seer, specifically the seer, Pres. Nelson, who will then translate it through the Urim and Thummim. He isn't going to ask someone without authority to translate it. It blows me away how anyone could be taken in by this.