What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

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inho
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What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

Since false prophets and prophetesses are a common topic on this forum, I have been thinking about true prophets. General Conference is soon and we have a chance to hear those who we sustain as prophets.

However, besides those sustained as prophets there might be other people who could justifiably be called prophets and prophetesses. "And to others it is given to prophesy" (D&C 46:22). The gift of prophecy is one of the gifts of the Spirit. Thus it is freely available for all believers.

If one had the gift of prophecy, what kind of things could one prophecy? The Guide to the Scriptures defines prophecy this way:
A prophecy consists of divinely inspired words or writings, which a person receives through revelation from the Holy Ghost. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10). A prophecy may pertain to the past, present, or future. When a person prophesies, he speaks or writes that which God wants him to know, for his own good or the good of others. Individuals may receive prophecy or revelation for their own lives.
Notice that the last sentence seems to limit the scope of prophecy for one's own life. We are used to hearing that in the church every one can receive revelations for themselves but also for their responsibilities (e.g., bishop for his ward). However, Moroni said "And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things" (Moro. 10:13). I guess that should be understood as all things in one's stewardship.

But what exactly are the limits of one's prophecy? Could one see future events that could affect multitudes (like Julie Rowe's professed predictions of earthquakes)?
Obviously, Lord's church is a church of order, so all new doctrine (or even policy) should come through proper priesthood channels. And if one received revelation about some new doctrine that is not taught in the church, then one ought to keep that information for oneself -- this was the case with Lorenzo Snow and deification.

How clear cut is the border? If I was to think about an example of someone who had the gift of prophecy, I would think of Heber C. Kimball. Parley P. Pratt told the following story in his Autobiography:
It was now April; I had retired to rest one evening at an early hour, and was pondering my future course, when there came a knock at the door. I arose and opened it, when Elder Heber C. Kimball and others entered my house, and being filled with the spirit of prophecy, they blessed me and my wife, and prophesied as follows:

"Brother Parley, thy wife shall be healed from this hour, and shall bear a son, and his name shall be Parley; and he shall be a chosen instrument in the hands of the Lord to inherit the priesthood and to walk in the steps of his father. He shall do a great work in the earth in ministering the Word and teaching the children of men. Arise, therefore, and go forth in the ministry, nothing doubting. Take no thoughts for your debts, nor the necessaries of life, for the Lord will supply you with abundant means for all things.

"Thou shalt go to Upper Canada, even to the city of Toronto, the capital, and there thou shalt find a people prepared for the fullness of the gospel, and they shall receive thee, and thou shalt organize the Church among them, and it shall spread thence into the regions round about, and many shall be brought to the knowledge of the truth and shall be filled with joy; and from the things growing out of this mission, shall the fullness of the gospel spread into England, and cause a great work to be done in that land.

"You shall not only have means to deliver you from your present embarrassments, but you shall yet have riches, silver and gold, till you will loath the counting thereof."

This prophecy was the more marvelous, because being married near ten years we had never had any children; and for near six years my wife had been consumptive, and had been considered incurable. However, we called to mind the faith of Abraham of old, and judging Him faithful who had promised, we took courage.

[later this prophecy is fulfilled:]

The truth had now triumphed in Canada, as was predicted on my head on starting from Kirtland, Ohio. Several branches of the Church had been organized, and Elders had been ordained to take care of the flocks and to continue the work. I took an affectionate leave of my friends in that country, and, with my wife, returned home. Where I had labored, the Lord had opened the hearts of the Saints sufficiently to pay up my debts, as had been predicted; and at the turn of the season, less than a twelvemonth from the date of brother Kimball's prophecy, my wife bore me a son, and we called his name Parley. He was born early in the morning of March 25th, 1837.
How is this revelation for Heber's stewardship? He even names Parley's future child!

What are your thoughts? If one has the gift of prophecy, is it okay to predict earthquakes or name other people's unborn children?

Seek the Truth
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Seek the Truth »

If you look up prophesy in the blue letter/Strongs it says to "speak under the influence of the Spirit". It's not limited to or even emphasizing predictions.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Seek the Truth »

Joseph Smith based his teaching on John the Revelator, that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

This is true because no man can know Jesus is the Christ but by the Holy Ghost.

Such an experience is revelation, and one who receives revelation is a prophet.

It does not mean you are perfect, or that you have been given a calling.

It also does not mean you have authority over others, or that you have authority to reveal for others. Joseph Smith makes clear that is for the 12 and the President.

However, as Moses said it would be best if we were all prophets, able to speak and teach under the influence of the Holy Ghost.

And Joseph Smith taught that the least saint may receive as much revelation as he had, and more.
Last edited by Seek the Truth on March 30th, 2018, 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

inho wrote: March 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/prophecy-prophesy?lang=eng&letter=P wrote: ... God wants him to know, for his own good or the good of others. Individuals may receive prophecy or revelation for their own lives.
Notice that the last sentence seems to limit the scope of prophecy for one's own life. We are used to hearing that in the church every one can receive revelations for themselves but also for their responsibilities (e.g., bishop for his ward). However, Moroni said "And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things" (Moro. 10:13). I guess that should be understood as all things in one's stewardship.

But what exactly are the limits of one's prophecy?
7 years prosperity began as a personal quest to know what I should do, but correlates well with presidential effection, GDP growth and timely moon-shadow crossings of the continent, etc. that may be observed by all. Image

gardener4life
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by gardener4life »

People with real spiritual gifts won't worship the gift. They will call attention to the Savior instead and that it's from him. Spiritual gifts are real but they are tools. So you wouldn't put the tool as more important than a real person if you are clear with God. People with spiritual gifts, including this one, won't really want to stand out but will point to what's higher up the chain than they are, and won't want to bring attention to themselves (though they may feel impressed to warn, which is different.)

People in tune with God promote equality and unity, but will avoid social caste systems or feeling better or higher than others. They will try to lift others too, and not feel threatened by the success of others being better than their own.

Now when we get back to what comes after this life. My impression is that if we've lived right and doing what we're suppose to we will be able to feel equal around others in the gospel. We shouldn't really be in awe of someone over us, but should feel at home with them on equal terms...except for Jesus and Heavenly Father. (By this comment I'm talking about brothers and sisters in the gospel.)

There still will be authority and priesthood lineage and order. But love and charity, and hope and other good things will be so powerful and present that we won't be thinking about who's in the lunch line ahead of us and things like that.

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inho
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

Seek the Truth wrote: March 30th, 2018, 6:18 pm Joseph Smith based his teaching on John the Revelator, that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

This is true because no man can know Jesus is the Christ but by the Holy Ghost.

Such an experience is revelation, and one who receives revelation is a prophet.
The quote from Guide to the Scripture cites Rev 19:10. However, I would make a difference with this kind of experience and having the spiritual gift of prophecy. It think the gift of the Spirit refers to something more than just having a testimony.

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inho
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

Seek the Truth wrote: March 30th, 2018, 6:18 pm And Joseph Smith taught that the least saint may receive as much revelation as he had, and more.
I think Lorenzo Snow is a good example of this. He got to know that “As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be” before Prophet Joseph Smith publicly taught the same.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Original_Intent »

If you know that Christ is your Savior, and you know it not because you were taught by your parents, or told so by your Sunday School teacher or any other man or woman, but you know it because it has been revealed to you by God, then you have the spirit of prophecy.

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inho
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

Original_Intent wrote: March 31st, 2018, 1:42 pm If you know that Christ is your Savior, and you know it not because you were taught by your parents, or told so by your Sunday School teacher or any other man or woman, but you know it because it has been revealed to you by God, then you have the spirit of prophecy.
Is spirit of prophecy the same as the spiritual gift to prophecy?

Rand
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Rand »

I think one can have a gift that they do not use. If one has the gift of prophecy and the spirit of prophecy, they are going to look more like Heber C. Kimball, in degrees.
What I am wondering is if one can have the gift of prophecy or the gift of the Holy Ghost, without knowing that Jesus is the Christ. Is not the knowledge of the Savior central to all other knowledge in His creation?

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Rand »

inho wrote: March 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm How is this revelation for Heber's stewardship? He even names Parley's future child!

What are your thoughts? If one has the gift of prophecy, is it okay to predict earthquakes or name other people's unborn children?
It would seem so. Heber did that a lot. I wonder if his scope of prophecy was expanded because of his call as a member of the first presidency, or his spirit was so expansive that it took in truth from such a broad watershed of life that he saw so much. Interesting question.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by davedan »

spirit of prophecy = testimony of Jesus Christ. But this would also include a testimony of the restoration.

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Original_Intent
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Original_Intent »

inho wrote: March 31st, 2018, 1:53 pm
Original_Intent wrote: March 31st, 2018, 1:42 pm If you know that Christ is your Savior, and you know it not because you were taught by your parents, or told so by your Sunday School teacher or any other man or woman, but you know it because it has been revealed to you by God, then you have the spirit of prophecy.
Is spirit of prophecy the same as the spiritual gift to prophecy?
That's a valid question. I don't have a good answer.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by JohnnyL »

inho wrote: March 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm Since false prophets and prophetesses are a common topic on this forum, I have been thinking about true prophets. General Conference is soon and we have a chance to hear those who we sustain as prophets.

However, besides those sustained as prophets there might be other people who could justifiably be called prophets and prophetesses. "And to others it is given to prophesy" (D&C 46:22). The gift of prophecy is one of the gifts of the Spirit. Thus it is freely available for all believers.

If one had the gift of prophecy, what kind of things could one prophecy? The Guide to the Scriptures defines prophecy this way:
A prophecy consists of divinely inspired words or writings, which a person receives through revelation from the Holy Ghost. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10). A prophecy may pertain to the past, present, or future. When a person prophesies, he speaks or writes that which God wants him to know, for his own good or the good of others. Individuals may receive prophecy or revelation for their own lives.
Notice that the last sentence seems to limit the scope of prophecy for one's own life. We are used to hearing that in the church every one can receive revelations for themselves but also for their responsibilities (e.g., bishop for his ward). However, Moroni said "And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things" (Moro. 10:13). I guess that should be understood as all things in one's stewardship.

But what exactly are the limits of one's prophecy? Could one see future events that could affect multitudes (like Julie Rowe's professed predictions of earthquakes)?
Obviously, Lord's church is a church of order, so all new doctrine (or even policy) should come through proper priesthood channels. And if one received revelation about some new doctrine that is not taught in the church, then one ought to keep that information for oneself -- this was the case with Lorenzo Snow and deification.

How clear cut is the border? If I was to think about an example of someone who had the gift of prophecy, I would think of Heber C. Kimball. Parley P. Pratt told the following story in his Autobiography:
It was now April; I had retired to rest one evening at an early hour, and was pondering my future course, when there came a knock at the door. I arose and opened it, when Elder Heber C. Kimball and others entered my house, and being filled with the spirit of prophecy, they blessed me and my wife, and prophesied as follows:

"Brother Parley, thy wife shall be healed from this hour, and shall bear a son, and his name shall be Parley; and he shall be a chosen instrument in the hands of the Lord to inherit the priesthood and to walk in the steps of his father. He shall do a great work in the earth in ministering the Word and teaching the children of men. Arise, therefore, and go forth in the ministry, nothing doubting. Take no thoughts for your debts, nor the necessaries of life, for the Lord will supply you with abundant means for all things.

"Thou shalt go to Upper Canada, even to the city of Toronto, the capital, and there thou shalt find a people prepared for the fullness of the gospel, and they shall receive thee, and thou shalt organize the Church among them, and it shall spread thence into the regions round about, and many shall be brought to the knowledge of the truth and shall be filled with joy; and from the things growing out of this mission, shall the fullness of the gospel spread into England, and cause a great work to be done in that land.

"You shall not only have means to deliver you from your present embarrassments, but you shall yet have riches, silver and gold, till you will loath the counting thereof."

This prophecy was the more marvelous, because being married near ten years we had never had any children; and for near six years my wife had been consumptive, and had been considered incurable. However, we called to mind the faith of Abraham of old, and judging Him faithful who had promised, we took courage.

[later this prophecy is fulfilled:]

The truth had now triumphed in Canada, as was predicted on my head on starting from Kirtland, Ohio. Several branches of the Church had been organized, and Elders had been ordained to take care of the flocks and to continue the work. I took an affectionate leave of my friends in that country, and, with my wife, returned home. Where I had labored, the Lord had opened the hearts of the Saints sufficiently to pay up my debts, as had been predicted; and at the turn of the season, less than a twelvemonth from the date of brother Kimball's prophecy, my wife bore me a son, and we called his name Parley. He was born early in the morning of March 25th, 1837.
How is this revelation for Heber's stewardship? He even names Parley's future child!

What are your thoughts? If one has the gift of prophecy, is it okay to predict earthquakes or name other people's unborn children?
Maybe President Oaks' talk helps answer this?

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by gardener4life »

Original_Intent wrote: March 31st, 2018, 4:23 pm
inho wrote: March 31st, 2018, 1:53 pm
Original_Intent wrote: March 31st, 2018, 1:42 pm If you know that Christ is your Savior, and you know it not because you were taught by your parents, or told so by your Sunday School teacher or any other man or woman, but you know it because it has been revealed to you by God, then you have the spirit of prophecy.
Is spirit of prophecy the same as the spiritual gift to prophecy?
That's a valid question. I don't have a good answer.
They can be different. Let me explain how.

There is being set apart as a prophet, seer, and revelator. There is also being worthy of receiving warnings from the Holy Ghost, and receiving promises from the Lord of an assured future. This last part can 'look' like the gift of prophecy. This is similar to the story of Jacob/Israel wrestled with the angel, and was told that he had been valiant enough to be assured a future. The same with Abraham, after 'enduring' being willing to sacrifice everything for the Lord.

So what else is there? There's also 'scope of limitations'. We can't go outside of our stewardship. There is also being given inspiration for those in our stewardships. This can look like prophecy, and I suppose it can be, as far as I can tell. People can get 'real' ideas either visually or words or a full spectrum of being helped to know what to do for a calling. But it can gravitate something in between 'inspiration from the Holy Ghost', or outright prophecy, or 'revelation'.

There is also...differences in 'authority of the priesthood', and actual 'power from/in the priesthood' from being faithful, valiant, and worthy. This affects that. Also this last part came from today's conference. So what this means is if we're living the gospel, sometimes the Lord will benefit us with spiritual outpouring, and that can take form of guiding us towards our future. You have to wonder, then if we don't 'see it' or 'acknowledge it', would it still be fair to say that we're enjoying prophecy by just following the Lord guiding us towards a promised future we've qualified for already by current, past, and future worthiness?

There is one more type, apart from the others but with the same principles attached. That is the gift of dreams, and visions. These are gifts from the Lord. We don't choose when we have them,...well except for choosing by being obedient, humble, and meek. But he will open it up when we need it. We can be needing it for guidance, or 'needing' to know the Lord will take care of us, to keep us out of danger, and to teach us. I would draw emphasis especially to those that sacrifice a lot and are enduring a lot will sometimes gain this just from a need to be comforted, rather than being given prophecy. It kind of can qualify as touching the border of prophecy I think but can more in this case be comfort to hang on. But the realism of how clear the image is can be influence by worthiness and being valiant, obedient, humble and meek power. So...this isn't exactly prophecy but it could be situationally when referring to visions, and dreams.

I would emphasis that the World mocks the things of God, but there are dozens of scriptures in the standard works talking about 'deny not the gift of prophecy, revelation, and gifts of God'.

I would also show that living valiant and escalating your faith can qualify you for spiritual gifts, not just having a calling. But if you do enjoy those things then do not spend them on vanity, or prestige, or compete with or against leaders. Guard them preciously and don't talk or share about them except where appropriate.

The sisters also enjoy and can have spiritual gifts too. Scriptural examples are; Ruth, Mary, Abish, Emma Smith, Lucy M Smith, and the sister of Wilford Woodruff...off the top of my head I can't think of her name right now. Also sometimes children enjoyed great faith and gifts too; my favorite example of this would be; Nephi and Samuel of the Old Testament.

In the Book of Mormon sometimes warnings were given when the nation was in trouble to all people even if they weren't church members either. This happened to warn both the Jaredites and the Nephites about their impending destructions. My worry about this one, is we're seeing this now in our country. People that aren't even LDS are getting the warning type. This can be confused for prophecy or self proclaimed prophets too. But you can see that this type of warning is to avoid a bad end, or similar to when a mother receives a warning that one of her children is in danger. This isn't really prophecy but a type of warning system. The Lord promised in the scriptures that before he withdraws his protection on a civilization that he will warn them about coming discipline. (Not teaching...but prophecy by comparison is teaching related usually.)

I hope this helps. I want to help you, and see you earnestly trying to know. You can ask me if any follow ups are needed.

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inho
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

JohnnyL wrote: March 31st, 2018, 7:28 pm Maybe President Oaks' talk helps answer this?
Are you referring to his talk in priesthood session, where he told the story of an EQ pres. who went to a member of his quorum and shared a message from God telling him to stay in school?

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by JohnnyL »

inho wrote: April 1st, 2018, 4:31 am
JohnnyL wrote: March 31st, 2018, 7:28 pm Maybe President Oaks' talk helps answer this?
Are you referring to his talk in priesthood session, where he told the story of an EQ pres. who went to a member of his quorum and shared a message from God telling him to stay in school?
Yes, that one.

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inho
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by inho »

1 Cor. 14

1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
How does prophecies comfort?

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by abijah »

inho wrote: March 30th, 2018, 5:55 pm Since false prophets and prophetesses are a common topic on this forum, I have been thinking about true prophets.
Haven’t finished reading the remainder of the post, but would like to stop and give especial thanks for this opening sentence. From time to time, for whatever reason I will find myself spending disproportionate amounts of time/energy considering topics such as false prophets and other negative things. It’s not that my motives or intentions are dishonourable or unhealthy, it’s simply that the undue interest leaves too little time to be edified and uplifted by those more sweet, peaceable things of the kingdom.

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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by Finrock »

The Holy Ghost gives a person authority and power. If we have the Holy Ghost or if we are filled with the Holy Ghost and we are moved by the Holy Ghost to speak, then whatever we speak as it is inspired by the Spirit, will be authorized and it will be fulfilled. Our authority comes from the Holy Ghost.

There are no bounds to what the Holy Spirit can do, what it can speak to, etc. When we are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, it is actually God speaking, through us, and God may speak and direct and do and command and prophesy as He wishes.

Ref. 1 Nephi 10:22

-Finrock

I AM
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Re: What does it mean to have the gift of prophecy?

Post by I AM »

Finrock wrote: April 6th, 2018, 12:55 pm The Holy Ghost gives a person authority and power. If we have the Holy Ghost or if we are filled with the Holy Ghost and we are moved by the Holy Ghost to speak, then whatever we speak as it is inspired by the Spirit, will be authorized and it will be fulfilled. Our authority comes from the Holy Ghost.

There are no bounds to what the Holy Spirit can do, what it can speak to, etc. When we are speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, it is actually God speaking, through us, and God may speak and direct and do and command and prophesy as He wishes.

Ref. 1 Nephi 10:22

-Finrock
-------------

"Wherefore, ye must press forward
with a steadfastness in Christ,
having a perfect brightness of hope,
and a love of God and of all men.
Wherefore, if ye shall press forward,
feasting upon the word of Christ,
and endure to the end, behold,
thus saith the Father:
Ye shall have eternal life."
2 Nephi 31:20


"Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do."
2 Nephi 32

"And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one."
3 Nephi 11:36

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