The Jews and Christ has this happened yet?

[drtanner]

7 And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ shall also become a delightsome people.

Is this happening in any significant degree that you are aware of?

[marc]

I would say yes. I have been following this page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/oneforIsrael/ for a couple years now. Check out their Videos section to watch many Jews and other middle eastern folks share their experiences about finding Yeshua. This is their Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/WWWonefori ... G/featured and their website: https://www.oneforisrael.org/

Lots of good stuff!

[inho]

I would say yes. I have been following this page on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/oneforIsrael/ for a couple years now. Check out their Videos section to watch many Jews and other middle eastern folks share their experiences about finding Yeshua. This is their Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/WWWonefori ... G/featured and their website: https://www.oneforisrael.org/

Lots of good stuff!

Here is one more link:

Yes, since I cannot as yet post in the regular forum----

https://jewsforjesus.org

❤❤

[abijah]

Perhaps a little bit, but the descriptions in the scriptures make it sound like they will near enough experience conversion as a whole people.

[Craig Johnson]

I totally believe it is happening right now and has been going on for several decades.

[abijah]

I totally believe it is happening right now and has been going on for several decades.

In the more secular sense, I would wholeheartedly agree. The nation of Israel has not only been established as prophesied, but has assumed control of Jerusalem and become a powerful, prosperous nation. Modern Israel has certainly blossomed as the rose, and been strengthened militarily by the hand of God.

[gardener4life]

This is a really great question.

It is starting to happen and picking up speed. Now the question is how far does it have to happen for it to be accepted and recognized? That's not something I could really say. But my grandfather and aunt who had been to Israel several times told me over ten years ago that there were many closet Jews starting to accept Christ. I think they have a hard time accepting Christ openly still. SO right now there's a ton of them that are kind of hiding in the closet still but in their heart have accepted him but their society doesn't allow it to be public yet. This is slowly changing though.

When will it be enough for all of them to say they accept Christ without safety issues or repercussions? I don't know that.

But there are many Jews that have accepted Christ.

Scripturally it says that they won't fully be rid of their curse of being scattered and it's similar details until they start to accept Christ.

So does that mean they have to accept him as a nation? I think that they won't accept him as nation body until he comes. The scriptures point to this. But there is a growing minority accepting him that we hope grows and continues to grow.

[larsenb]

This is a really great question.

It is starting to happen and picking up speed. Now the question is how far does it have to happen for it to be accepted and recognized? That's not something I could really say. But my grandfather and aunt who had been to Israel several times told me over ten years ago that there were many closet Jews starting to accept Christ. I think they have a hard time accepting Christ openly still. SO right now there's a ton of them that are kind of hiding in the closet still but in their heart have accepted him but their society doesn't allow it to be public yet. This is slowly changing though.

When will it be enough for all of them to say they accept Christ without safety issues or repercussions? I don't know that.

But there are many Jews that have accepted Christ.

Scripturally it says that they won't fully be rid of their curse of being scattered and it's similar details until they start to accept Christ.

So does that mean they have to accept him as a nation? I think that they won't accept him as nation body until he comes. The scriptures point to this. But there is a growing minority accepting him that we hope grows and continues to grow.

I've heard the same thing from others who've experienced running into quite a few Jews who harbor a private belief in Christ. I have a former Jewish girlfriend who may have accepted Christ on a personal level. She at least affiliates with a Christian Benefice on a regular basis, and has written a book about Mother Teresa, which is very balanced and fair regarding Teresa's Christianity, even describing Malcolm Muggeridge's conversion with sympathy.

[drtanner]

Nope.

Would love for you to elaborate on your thoughts anarchist por favor.

[drtanner]

Nope.

Would love for you to elaborate on your thoughts anarchist por favor.

Por favor, eh? I bet you went on a Spanish-speaking mission, didn't you?

Okay, so here's the verse you quoted:

And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ shall also become a delightsome people. (2 Nephi 30:7)

The context of this prophesy is this:

And now, I would prophesy somewhat more concerning the Jews and the Gentiles. For after the book of which I have spoken shall come forth, and be written unto the Gentiles, and sealed up again unto the Lord, there shall be many which shall believe the words which are written; and they shall carry them forth unto the remnant of our seed. And then shall the remnant of our seed know concerning us, how that we came out from Jerusalem, and that they are descendants of the Jews. And the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be declared among them; wherefore, they shall be restored unto the knowledge of their fathers, and also to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, which was had among their fathers. And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people. (2 Nephi 30:3-6)

So, first (#1) the book (the Book of Mormon) comes forth, (#2) it gets written "unto the Gentiles" and (#3) then it is sealed up again. Then (#4) it goes to the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles (#5) to the remnant and to the rest of the house of Israel (including the Jews), and because of that book (the Book of Mormon), as well as the other records that will come forth, (#6) the remnant will repent and be restored to the knowledge of their fathers and of Christ, and (#7) the Jews will begin in Christ. And after their conversion to Christ (through the Book of Mormon and other scriptures), (#8) then they will begin to gather in upon the face of the land.

Anyway, the above is the prophetic chronology. But only one of those points has happened, so far.

#1: The Book of Mormon came forth; that is, the plates of Mormon, which contained the Book of Mormon, was delivered by the angel Moroni into the hands of Joseph Smith, Jun. This part of the prophecy was fulfilled.
#2: The Book of Mormon gets "written unto the Gentiles." Unfortunately, only part of the Book of Mormon was published. There are 116 pages, as well as the title page (which was written by Mormon), still missing from the book. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#3: The Book of Mormon gets sealed up again. Joseph Smith merely delivered the plates of Mormon into the hands of Moroni. He did not seal up the plates again. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#4: The Book of Mormon goes to the Gentiles. Only part of the Book of Mormon has gone to the Gentiles, for the missing parts have yet to be published. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#5: The Book of Mormon goes from the Gentiles to the remnant (and the rest of the house of Israel.) Only part of the Book of Mormon has been taken to the remnant and others of Israel. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#6: The remnant will repent upon receipt of the Book of Mormon and they will be restored to the knowledge of their fathers. The remnant have not repented, nor been restored to the knowledge of their fathers. Why not? Because they never received the Book of Mormon, for only some of them have received but a part of that record, and only some of them have repented. And those who have repented have yet to be restored to the knowledge of their fathers. They have only been restored to the knowledge of Christ. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#7: The Jews, receiving the full and complete Book of Mormon, will begin to believe in Christ. The Jews haven't received the full record, yet, and only a few of them have begun to believe in Christ. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.
#8: The Jews (after converting to Christ) will begin to gather in upon the face of the land. The current crop of Jews have very few believers in Christ. Of the rest of the Jews, some of them have gathered to the State of Israel, yet these people do not believe in Christ. In other words, the prophecy calls for belief in Christ first, followed by gathering second. What we have witnessed is a gathering to Palestine first, without a corresponding belief in Christ, neither before nor afterward. Thus, this part of the prophecy is, as yet, unfulfilled.

All of these points show that this prophecy has not been fulfilled, and what we are witnessing is but a shadow and a type. Nephi's prophecy points not to the time of Joseph Smith, but to the time of Joseph-Nephi, the Nephite miracle-working seer who was prophesied to appear, who will restore his people (the Nephites.)

Here, then, is how the prophecy will be literally fullfilled:

Joseph-Nephi gets on the scene and gets the plates of Mormon, and this time the plates shine with the power of God;

And blessed be he that shall bring this thing to light; for it shall be brought out of darkness unto light, according to the word of God; yea, it shall be brought out of the earth, and it shall shine forth out of darkness, and come unto the knowledge of the people; and it shall be done by the power of God. (Mormon 8:16)

he performs a strong, functional translation of the entire Book of Mormon, including the small plates of Nephi (not the weak word-for-word translation that Joseph Smith did), translating the text into all the languages of the world, both living and dead languages (not just into the English language, like Joseph Smith did);

Because of their faith their words shall proceed forth out of my mouth unto their brethren who are the fruit of thy loins; and the weakness of their words will I make strong in their faith, unto the remembering of my covenant which I made unto thy fathers. (2 Nephi 3:21)

as a result of this powerful, new translation, the Book of Mormon is transformed into an instrument of convincing power, whereby all who read it become convinced;

And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God; and that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, working mighty miracles, signs, and wonders, among the children of men according to their faith. But behold, I prophesy unto you concerning the last days; concerning the days when the Lord God shall bring these things forth unto the children of men. (2 Nephi 26:12-14)

And it came to pass that I beheld the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the book of the Lamb of God, which had proceeded forth from the mouth of the Jew, that it came forth from the Gentiles unto the remnant of the seed of my brethren. And after it had come forth unto them I beheld other books, which came forth by the power of the Lamb, from the Gentiles unto them, unto the convincing of the Gentiles and the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the Jews who were scattered upon all the face of the earth, that the records of the prophets and of the twelve apostles of the Lamb are true. (1 Nephi 13:38-39)

he will also write the Book of Mormon himself (not dictating a translation of it to a scribe, like Joseph Smith did);

And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it. And the words which he shall write shall be the words which are expedient in my wisdom should go forth unto the fruit of thy loins. (2 Nephi 3:18-19)

after writing (not translating) the Book of Mormon (meaning that he will write out the actual language of the Nephites), he will whisper the words, in the language of the Nephites, to the spokesman, and that spokesman, having now learned the language of the Nephites, both the spoken and written language of the Nephites, will then declare the same to the remnant, so that they are restored to the knowledge of their fathers;

For those who shall be destroyed shall speak unto them out of the ground, and their speech shall be low out of the dust, and their voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit; for the Lord God will give unto him power, that he may whisper concerning them, even as it were out of the ground; and their speech shall whisper out of the dust. (2 Nephi 26:16)

And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it. (2 Nephi 3:18)

and then the remnant will repent and, having all the Nephite records, the Nephite language and a knowledge of all things Nephitish, they will then become Nephites, meaning that once again there will be tribes of Nephites and Jacobites and Josephites and Zoramites in the land, fulfilling the prophecy that speaks of Nephites existing in the end times and also fulfilling the promise God made to Nephi, which was concerning his posterity and those who would be called by his name, and which was to be an everlasting covenant;

For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it. And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews. (2 Nephi 29:12-13)

Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed, from this time henceforth and forever, except they repent of their wickedness and turn to me that I may have mercy upon them. And again: I will set a mark upon him that mingleth his seed with thy brethren, that they may be cursed also. And again: I will set a mark upon him that fighteth against thee and thy seed. And again, I say he that departeth from thee shall no more be called thy seed; and I will bless thee, and whomsoever shall be called thy seed, henceforth and forever; and these were the promises of the Lord unto Nephi and to his seed. (Alma 3:14-17)

thus, the Nephites will be restored, despite being a branch of Israel that withered away and died. The faith of the ancient Nephites of this land will bring forth the Josephite, the mightiest seer of all time, and the Josephite's faith will be applied to the posterity of the Nephites which now exists among the Lamanite remnant, so that he will restore them back again as a righteous Nephite branch of Israel, and it will all be done by the power of God, working mighty miracles, in the spirit of power, just as the prophecies say:

Wherefore, Joseph truly saw our day. And he obtained a promise of the Lord, that out of the fruit of his loins the Lord God would raise up a righteous branch unto the house of Israel; not the Messiah, but a branch which was to be broken off, nevertheless, to be remembered in the covenants of the Lord that the Messiah should be made manifest unto them in the latter days, in the spirit of power, unto the bringing of them out of darkness unto light—yea, out of hidden darkness and out of captivity unto freedom. (2 Nephi 3:5)

The Mormon Gentiles of today apply these scriptures to themselves, thinking they speak of what Joseph Smith did, but they are dead wrong. Joseph Smith brought Elias's shadow down to earth, and we Mormons are now in that shadow, but Elias himself is now in the shadow, hidden away somewhere, and it was always the prerogative of Elias to perform this work of restoration, restoring every branch of Israel, including the Nephites. This is why Joseph Smith's 3-fold restoration and his publication of the incomplete Book of Mormon never fulfilled the following scripture:

Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3:12)

Contentions have not been laid down by what Joseph Smith did. Just look at this forum and it's as plain as day to see that the above prophecy has not occurred. False doctrines will be confounded, contentions will be laid down, and peace will be established by the ministry of Joseph-Nephi alone. He is the one who writes the writing of the fruit of the loins of Joseph spoken of in the above verse, not Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith never wrote the Book of Mormon, nor even his own revelations. He dictated everything to Oliver Cowdery or to other scribes, and it was they who then wrote them down.

And so on and so forth. I'm not going to expound the entire canon. Hopefully what I've written is sufficient to see that these prophecies are still future to us.

Mucho Gracias I actually served my mission in the south so I speak southern fluently. Tough language to learn however. Appreciate the thorough explanataion, it makes senses why you feel this has not been fulfilled. The verdict is still out for me on this one but you have definitely given me some food for thought!

[JackBuckeye]

In 2010 a report released by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics showed that 8% of Israel's Jewish population defines itself as ultra-Orthodox, 12% as Orthodox, 13% as traditional-religious, 25% as traditional, and 42% as secular, on a descending scale of religiosity.

I would say no. The percentage of secular Jews is even higher outside of Israel. Also it is illegal to openly proselytize in Israel.

Secular Jews in the US have consistently pushed the doctrine of the separation of church and state and have opposed the singing of Christmas carols in schools and public Nativity displays.

[brianj]

In 2010 a report released by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics showed that 8% of Israel's Jewish population defines itself as ultra-Orthodox, 12% as Orthodox, 13% as traditional-religious, 25% as traditional, and 42% as secular, on a descending scale of religiosity.

I would say no. The percentage of secular Jews is even higher outside of Israel. Also it is illegal to openly proselytize in Israel.

Secular Jews in the US have consistently pushed the doctrine of the separation of church and state and have opposed the singing of Christmas carols in schools and public Nativity displays.

Over 90% of Americans recognize or celebrate Christmas in some way, but I have seen secular Jews more aggressively opposing any expression of Christmas greetings and profanely insulting me for pointing out that if I say Merry Christmas the odds of the person not recognizing the holiday is less than one in ten.

[Jack Vance 79]

I don't think this will happen in earnest until after the second coming. The Bible says that they will look upon him whom they pierced and ask what are these wounds, and that he will respond, those which I was wounded with in the house of my friends. There will be a great mourning.

[brianj]

I don't think this will happen in earnest until after the second coming. The Bible says that they will look upon him whom they pierced and ask what are these wounds, and that he will respond, those which I was wounded with in the house of my friends. There will be a great mourning.

There are prophecies that this will happen prior to the Second Coming. Among other prophecies is the battle of Armageddon, after the conclusion of which the Savior will visit the valley created when the Mount of Olives is split. At that time the surviving Jews will recognize that their ancestors crucified the Messiah and we'll see tremendous missionary success in Israel.