Turning a blind eye to modern prophets

[gclayjr]

Arenera,

saw this post in Outer Darkness asking for questions about Atonement. Amonhi. What is Elliaison?

I (luckily) live in Pennsylvania, so I am not around many of the splinter cults that rise up in Utah. My experience has been with what I see on this board. There was a board member calling himself Amonhi, who stated that you did not need to follow the prophet, nor even be a member of the LDS Church to find salvation. You could get your Calling & Election Made sure by following his few simple steps, that included asking Christ to come and visit you and bless you and tell you that your C&E had been made sure, then afterward, you were guaranteed a celestial glory, and regular visits by Jesus Christ. He told us that Jesus Christ regularly visited him and sat at the foot of his bed and and gave him personal instructions and blessings. Some here who are more knowledgeable than I am stated that this was part of the Eliason cult, which Amonhi did not deny.

The reason I brought it up was to show a pattern in FInrock's posts. He was the most sycophantic puppy in stating how much he agreed and admired Amonhi, and the most vicious pitbull in going after anybody who posted that Amonhi's teachings were heretical.

This is not all. Finriock will consistently cover himself, by making a vapid claim that he is a TBM, while supporting everybody that posts that you shouldn't trust in what the prophet says (that is relying of the flesh) and that all you have to do is listen to the spirit, and you will be fine. He started a long topic about how you don't need baptism or any other physical ordinance. he used his own (spirit inspired?) interpretation of vivion of JS whre he sees a future in the Celestial Kingdom with his bother Alvin, who died before the church was restored as evidence.'

Now I give Finrock the benefit of any doubt that he is saying what her believes. So I submit that it is easy to hear or feel the promptings of a spirit, believing it to be the HG, and go completely off the rails...

TO bring this back to the topic

Thus by turning a blind eye to our modern prophet, be led carefully to hell.

Regards,

George Clay

[Finrock]

Can a true follower of Christ really turn a blind eye to any individual, feel resentment towards them, hate them, or not respect them and recognize them as a spirit brother/sister, and treat them as co-equals? Can a true follower of Christ place one man above another man by treating one with adulation, respect, and honor, while treating another with contempt, disdain, and disrespect?

The answer is no.

I think the premise of this topic is flawed. The words said in the OP apply just as much to any person as it does to the leaders. We ought not to feel resentment towards anyone. We ought not to feel disdain for anyone. We ought to be able to acknowledge the good that has been said, taught, or shared, regardless of who the person is. That, to me, is what disciples of Jesus Christ do.

But, how does one judge that a person is turning a blind eye to modern day prophets or that they are feeling resentment? Apparently some Mormons believe that if you don't venerate the leaders, you are turning a blind eye to them. Based on what's been said on this thread, others believe that if you don't obey the prophets without question, you are turning a blind eye to them. Others feel that if you speak factually about weaknesses, mistakes, or issues of the leaders, you are turning a blind eye to them. There is no doubt that many Mormons give the leaders preferential treatment or who treat General Authorities as some people might treat celebrities (giddy to be around them, they might be overwhelmed by emotion by being in their presence, crying, be super excited to touch them, etc.) and these Mormons, apparently, will judge that a person who doesn't feel the same way about the leaders as they do, is turning a blind eye to them. Others believe that if you don't equate the President of the Church with Jesus Christ, you are turning a blind eye to them.

Me, personally, I look forward to listening to the leaders of the Church. I recognize that there are many men and women who have vast experience in life and in the gospel and it would be wise for me to turn an attentive ear to their words and their counsel. I've been blessed immensely, uplifted, and edified many times in my life by the Spirit filled words of general authorities in the Church. I also recognize, sustain, and respect those who have the responsibility of leading the general affairs of the Church and so forth. However, I don't venerate them. I don't believe they are infallible. I recognize they are mortal and I acknowledge that they have weaknesses as well. I don't treat them as celebrities. I don't think that every word that comes from their mouth is from the Spirit. I don't obey them without question. I don't equate them with Jesus Christ. They are servants (and I'm very grateful for their service), not masters. Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. My desire is to be able to see each man, woman, and child the way God sees them. My desire is to treat each spirit in this world, each intelligence, as a co-equal, co-eternal being, who deserves my respect, my honor (Note: This is my desire, not what I actually end up doing in each case). I try to look for truth, goodness, love, and Christ wherever I can find it.

-Finrock

[LdsMarco]

Ezra Taft Benson
"The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and proud who are rich. The learned may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them otherwise, the prophet is just giving his opinion-speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet." (1980 BYU Speeches of the year, p. 29 as taken from Latter-day Commentary on the Book of Mormon compiled by K. Douglas Bassett, p. 120)

[Finrock]

Finrock, what did you do in the October 2017 General Conference when the sustaining of the church officers occurred. I've provided you the link in case you have forgotten.


I'll make it even easier for you. I'll provide the transcript of the part I am curious about.

It is proposed that we sustain Thomas Spencer Monson as prophet, seer, and revelator and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Henry Bennion Eyring as First Counselor in the First Presidency; and Dieter Friedrich Uchtdorf as Second Counselor in the First Presidency.

Those in favor may manifest it.

Those opposed, if any, may manifest it.

Did you respond in favor? Opposed?


https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

Just stop, Mirkwood, with these immature "faith tests" etc. If you disagree with something that I've said and you feel so inclined, provide your best reasons and counter arguments, and share what you believe and so forth. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what you think of me personally and I'm not here to prove my faith to you or to anyone else.

-Finrock

[gclayjr]

Finrock,

I think the premise of this topic is flawed. The words said in the OP apply just as much to any person as it does to the leaders. We ought not to feel resentment towards anyone.

Finrock, finally the mask comes off.

Thank You.


I see you always equate disagreement with resentment, and listening and following with revering. Check the dictionary. Disagreement does not mean resentment. Listening and following does not mean revering. However,. you always make that leap in order to justify your flawed view.

I disagree with most of what you say. I don't resent you. in fact I pity the fact that you are so committed to this, that no matter who shows you the error of your thinking, you go back to it, because it is what makes you feel good. Unfortunately you will at least have to pay, in your lack of progress down the path of truth. I truly hope your hard heart and mind changes before it has a more lasting effect upon your soul.

Regards,


George Clay

[Arenera]

Maybe this will help...

https://www.lds.org/media-library/video ... 6?lang=eng

[Finrock]

Finrock,

I think the premise of this topic is flawed. The words said in the OP apply just as much to any person as it does to the leaders. We ought not to feel resentment towards anyone.

Finrock, finally the mask comes off.

Thank You.

George Clay

Yep, and guess what, I'm really a puppy! Woof, woof.

-Finrock

[Spaced_Out]

Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That is the first stage of apostasy - we have also had revelation and have prophesied. The prophets are to be acknowledge and revered. If we seek wisdom and guidance we go to them, if they make changes we follow.

@Finrock have you ever received direction from a general authority of the church that was misguiding - I have not. Why do you teach people to not obey the prophets - they all act in unison. It is apostasy and teaching designed to lead people astray and only obey that what your natural man is willing to accept.

Numbers 12.

1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.
............
4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.
5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.
6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

[mirkwood]

Just stop, Mirkwood, with these immature "faith tests" etc. If you disagree with something that I've said and you feel so inclined, provide your best reasons and counter arguments, and share what you believe and so forth. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what you think of me personally and I'm not here to prove my faith to you or to anyone else.

-Finrock

Thank you. This response is quite revealing.

[Finrock]

Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That is the first stage of apostasy -

No it isn't.

Do you want to be revered, Spaced_Out? Do you want to be obeyed without question? How about set up on a pedestal? Or be treated as a celebrity? Do you want to have authority to tell people what to do, how to live, what to believe? Is this what you desire?

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Just stop, Mirkwood, with these immature "faith tests" etc. If you disagree with something that I've said and you feel so inclined, provide your best reasons and counter arguments, and share what you believe and so forth. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what you think of me personally and I'm not here to prove my faith to you or to anyone else.

-Finrock

Thank you. This response is quite revealing.

I'm sure it is.

-Finrock

[Spaced_Out]

Do you want to have authority to tell people what to do, how to live, what to believe? Is this what you desire?

It is not a matter of desire -God calls people to positions of responsibility and authority - in most cases they don't want it but accept humbly. We have to give respect and reverence to those who God calls - if not one is not respecting or reverencing God.

In you little rant you make many contradictory statements like celebrity and desire authority. It has been my experience those that desire authority are the very ones that reject local church leaders and the prophets as they want the authority for themselves but claim the church leader are acting unrighteous dominion on them. You have a big issue with others having authority and being reverenced - it is because that is your desire..

It is as allays the pot calling the kettle black.

[Spaced_Out]

Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That is the first stage of apostasy -

No it isn't.

Do you want to be revered, Spaced_Out? Do you want to be obeyed without question? How about set up on a pedestal? Or be treated as a celebrity? Do you want to have authority to tell people what to do, how to live, what to believe? Is this what you desire?

-Finrock

Yes that is what prophets do tell people what to believe and how to live.. It is also a responsibility of every parent. One of the main responsibility of prophets is to call people to repentance.

Yes please do revere the prophets it is a commandment from God.

revere rɪˈvɪə/Submit
verb
past tense: revered; past participle: revered
feel deep respect or admiration for (something).

“I honor and revere the name of Joseph Smith,” said his friend and successor, Brigham Young. “I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine. I feel like shouting Hallelujah, all the time, when I think that I ever knew Joseph Smith, the Prophet whom the Lord raised up. I am bold to say that, Jesus Christ excepted, no better man ever lived or does live upon this earth. I am his witness” (see "Discourses of Brigham Young," p. 456).

[gardener4life]

1 Kings 20:27
Old Testament
And the children of Israel were numbered, and were all present, and went against them: and the children of Israel pitched before them like two little flocks of kids; but the Syrians filled the country.

Isaiah 26:17
Old Testament
Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord.
(The woman is in tribulations, but the symbol of being like a child is to let the Lord lead and guide us, not reject it through rebellion.)

Acts 7:37
New Testament
¶This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. (Children...prophet...him shall ye hear. Hear the prophet as a child nothing doubting and full of trust is apparent. Also notice how many scriptures say children of Israel, yet they weren't mostly children but were mostly old and adults. So why would it say children repeatedly in the Old Testament unless to teach us to be as children trusting Heavenly Father, Christ, and their priesthood leaders. It is not the job of those that don't know to sow distrust between the prophets and the children of Israel.)

Zechariah 10:7
Old Testament
And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the Lord. (Their hearts shall rejoice in the Lord, and his gospel. Other people when seeing this when they don't have the Spirit their reaction is enmity. Why? Because they don't have the Spirit, and instead follow rebellion. Also again and again calling them the children of Israel all over in the Old Testament. There's a reason for this reference of calling them children. Yet they were NOT mostly children. It was a tool of faith to teach them how to use their faith and trust Heavenly Father and their leaders instilled from the very beginning.)

Jeremiah 2:30
Old Testament
In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion. (They killed the prophets. Why would I show this? Before they killed the prophets, first they rejected them. In essence, they were killing the prophets spiritually with rebellion, casting doubt on their character and practices before doing so physically.)

And the biggest examples of all...while Moses was up in the temple mount talking to the Lord, others sowed distrust among the children of Israel against Moses to get them to sin and to lead them astray. They didn't have to work hard among the children of Israel to try to make them think Moses was gone so long up on the mountain that he must be dead (or led astray or lost). Thus, why not let us build some golden calf and worship it instead?

The two most important scriptures I would put here....

***Mosiah 3:19***

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

***2 Nephi 9:14***

14 Wherefore, we shall have a perfect knowledge of all our guilt, and our uncleanness, and our nakedness; and the righteous shall have a perfect knowledge of their enjoyment, and their righteousness, being clothed with purity, yea, even with the robe of righteousness.

And other scriptures...'he will suffer to save all men'....IF they will hearken unto his voice. But how will they hearken unto his voice if they reject the messengers sent before the bridegroom?

"...When they are learned they think they are wise and hearken not unto the voice of the Lord..."

[Finrock]

You didn't answer my questions Spaced. Do you desire those things?

-Finrock

[Mark]

Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That is the first stage of apostasy -

No it isn't.

Do you want to be revered, Spaced_Out? Do you want to be obeyed without question? How about set up on a pedestal? Or be treated as a celebrity? Do you want to have authority to tell people what to do, how to live, what to believe? Is this what you desire?

-Finrock

You talk in such abstract and speculative terms Finrock. Tell me specifically about your experience with any of the Apostles and Prophets past or present that causes you to imply that they would want to be set up on a pedestal or obeyed without question or exercise total control over peoples lives that would be classified as unrighteous dominion? If you dont have any specific allegations toward any of them why do you feel the need to constantly bring this up whenever their counsel to the Saints is mentioned? My experience with any that I have met is that they are kind and humble men who seek to follow the Lord in their stewardship calling. Why do you need to try and knock them down a peg by constantly referencing their human frailties? There is something off about doing that. Maybe you need to re-evaluate..

[Finrock]

Neither do I believe that only they can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost.

That is the first stage of apostasy -

No it isn't.

Do you want to be revered, Spaced_Out? Do you want to be obeyed without question? How about set up on a pedestal? Or be treated as a celebrity? Do you want to have authority to tell people what to do, how to live, what to believe? Is this what you desire?

-Finrock

You talk in such abstract and speculative terms Finrock. Tell me specifically about your experience with any of the Apostles and Prophets past or present that causes you to imply that they would want to be set up on a pedestal or obeyed without question or exercise total control over peoples lives that would be classified as unrighteous dominion? If you dont have any specific allegations toward any of them why do you feel the need to constantly bring this up whenever their counsel to the Saints is mentioned? My experience with any that I have met is that they are kind and humble men who seek to follow the Lord in their stewardship calling. Why do you need to try and knock them down a peg by constantly referencing their human frailties? There is something off about doing that. Maybe you need to re-evaluate..

Mark,

Not to be rude, but you may want to pay careful attention to what I've actually said. I'm talking about how some members perceive, treat, or feel about the general authorities.

-Finrock

[Thinker]

Following the prophet is nothing new! 1 Corinthians 11:1: Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Paul makes a qualified statement. The current lds church has no level of qualification.

I think it would be disingenuous to claim the two messages are the same. Paul actions match his words. Paul brags about standing up against Peter when Peter treated Jews and Gentiles differently. But you are free to correlate Paul's words into the latest iteration of gospel messaging.

You're either in or out. There's no grey area. Your choice

No, that is dangerously incorrect. The idea that you MUST be either in or out is polarized (bi-polar) thinking distortion & why some, when they find a flaw in the church, throw the whole thing out, or why when some find a flaw in themselves incorrectly see themselves as 100% horrible.

[Thinker]

You can be ordained or set apart (President Nelson is not quit sure which) as the president of the church. You cannot be ordained or set apart to be a prophet. That only comes from God.

All the prophets had the Melchizedek Priesthood and were ordained by God himself (Joseph Smith)

Matthew 7: 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

There's an important distinction between a President and a Prophet.

Good point. Which is why I raise my hand without hesitation to sustain President Nelson as a Prophet. The fruits are evident.

Where? Where is the evidence that at least 1/3 of TITHES are given to help those suffering and dying of extreme poverty? Why did Oaks say that no tithes go to the poor, when the LOWER law of tithing says at least 1/3 should be? Jesus suggested giving much more - in higher laws. Jesus said the 2 highest commandments that are above all prophets and laws are to love God and similarly, to love others as ourselves. Breaking the law of tithing as is being done is breaking the highest commandments. Sorry, but I can’t in good conscience sustain that.

It is true that sometimes there is blind obedience and practically worship to whoever happens to have lived and had seniority long enough to be labeled “prophet.” And what is really known of this person except words read off of teleprompters? I do believe as Joseph Smith suggested, in the need to seek and embrace truth wherever its found - but I will not blindly prioritize any fallible human being over God. They can, have and will lead astray. No other gods before God.

[drtanner]

You can be ordained or set apart (President Nelson is not quit sure which) as the president of the church. You cannot be ordained or set apart to be a prophet. That only comes from God.

There's an important distinction between a President and a Prophet.

Good point. Which is why I raise my hand without hesitation to sustain President Nelson as a Prophet. The fruits are evident.

Where? Where is the evidence that at least 1/3 of TITHES are given to help those suffering and dying of extreme poverty? Why did Oaks say that no tithes go to the poor, when the LOWER law of tithing says at least 1/3 should be? Jesus suggested giving much more - in higher laws. Jesus said the 2 highest commandments that are above all prophets and laws are to love God and similarly, to love others as ourselves. Breaking the law of tithing as is being done is breaking the highest commandments. Sorry, but I can’t in good conscience sustain that.

It is true that sometimes there is blind obedience and practically worship to whoever happens to have lived and had seniority long enough to be labeled “prophet.” And what is really known of this person except words read off of teleprompters? I do believe as Joseph Smith suggested, in the need to seek and embrace truth wherever its found - but I will not blindly prioritize any fallible human being over God. They can, have and will lead astray. No other gods before God.

How do I know president Nelson is a prophet?

24 And now, behold, you have received a witness; for if I have told you things which no man knoweth have you not received a witness?

You to can receive the same witness that he is indeed a prophet of God.

[Thinker]

[shadow]

You can be ordained or set apart (President Nelson is not quit sure which) as the president of the church. You cannot be ordained or set apart to be a prophet. That only comes from God.

There's an important distinction between a President and a Prophet.

Good point. Which is why I raise my hand without hesitation to sustain President Nelson as a Prophet. The fruits are evident.

Where? Where is the evidence that at least 1/3 of TITHES are given to help those suffering and dying of extreme poverty? Why did Oaks say that no tithes go to the poor, when the LOWER law of tithing says at least 1/3 should be? Jesus suggested giving much more - in higher laws. Jesus said the 2 highest commandments that are above all prophets and laws are to love God and similarly, to love others as ourselves. Breaking the law of tithing as is being done is breaking the highest commandments. Sorry, but I can’t in good conscience sustain that.

It is true that sometimes there is blind obedience and practically worship to whoever happens to have lived and had seniority long enough to be labeled “prophet.” And what is really known of this person except words read off of teleprompters? I do believe as Joseph Smith suggested, in the need to seek and embrace truth wherever its found - but I will not blindly prioritize any fallible human being over God. They can, have and will lead astray. No other gods before God.

Where is the evidence that God wants 1/3 of tithes to go to the poor in these latter days? What do the revelations to Joseph Smith say about the use of tithes?

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,
2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.


Isaiah has it right-

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

The hungry, poor and naked are to be taken care of via fast offerings. We're also commanded to help when and where we see a need.

[David13]

There's an important distinction between a President and a Prophet.

Good point. Which is why I raise my hand without hesitation to sustain President Nelson as a Prophet. The fruits are evident.

Where? Where is the evidence that at least 1/3 of TITHES are given to help those suffering and dying of extreme poverty? Why did Oaks say that no tithes go to the poor, when the LOWER law of tithing says at least 1/3 should be? Jesus suggested giving much more - in higher laws. Jesus said the 2 highest commandments that are above all prophets and laws are to love God and similarly, to love others as ourselves. Breaking the law of tithing as is being done is breaking the highest commandments. Sorry, but I can’t in good conscience sustain that.

It is true that sometimes there is blind obedience and practically worship to whoever happens to have lived and had seniority long enough to be labeled “prophet.” And what is really known of this person except words read off of teleprompters? I do believe as Joseph Smith suggested, in the need to seek and embrace truth wherever its found - but I will not blindly prioritize any fallible human being over God. They can, have and will lead astray. No other gods before God.

Where is the evidence that God wants 1/3 of tithes to go to the poor in these latter days? What do the revelations to Joseph Smith say about the use of tithes?

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion,
2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.


Isaiah has it right-

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

The hungry, poor and naked are to be taken care of via fast offerings. We're also commanded to help when and where we see a need.

Well, yes, but aren't we also given discernment, to know the difference between a need and a want?

There are rather extensive wants out there today. Today the so called poor in America are defined as those relegated to driving last years SUV, or use other than the latest edition of the "smart phone". Or are able to go to Disneyland only once every two years, or relegated to drinking the cheaper booze, and smoke generic brand cigarettes.

Therefore, you have given no evidence. You have merely proved your indictment by your narrow interpretation of the passages cited.

dc

[Finrock]

There's an important distinction between a President and a Prophet.

Good point. Which is why I raise my hand without hesitation to sustain President Nelson as a Prophet. The fruits are evident.

Where? Where is the evidence that at least 1/3 of TITHES are given to help those suffering and dying of extreme poverty? Why did Oaks say that no tithes go to the poor, when the LOWER law of tithing says at least 1/3 should be? Jesus suggested giving much more - in higher laws. Jesus said the 2 highest commandments that are above all prophets and laws are to love God and similarly, to love others as ourselves. Breaking the law of tithing as is being done is breaking the highest commandments. Sorry, but I can’t in good conscience sustain that.

It is true that sometimes there is blind obedience and practically worship to whoever happens to have lived and had seniority long enough to be labeled “prophet.” And what is really known of this person except words read off of teleprompters? I do believe as Joseph Smith suggested, in the need to seek and embrace truth wherever its found - but I will not blindly prioritize any fallible human being over God. They can, have and will lead astray. No other gods before God.

How do I know president Nelson is a prophet?

24 And now, behold, you have received a witness; for if I have told you things which no man knoweth have you not received a witness?

You to can receive the same witness that he is indeed a prophet of God.

I don't understand? What have you told that "no man knoweth"? How does this relate to what Thinker was even saying?

-Finrock

[Thinker]

Shadow,
Who’s church is this?
Is it “the church of latter day presidents” (aka prophets)?
Is it “The church of Jesus Christ?

If it is the church of the presidents, then yes it makes sense to blindly give your money to them and blindly trust that their lack of financial transparency is not hiding anything bad, and blindly trust in them as if they were God - infallible and could never lead you astray. If it is the church of the presidents, ignore what Jesus taught if it conflicts with the presidents teachings.

If it is the church of Jesus Christ, then Christ’s teachings prioritize above presidents teachings. The law of tithing we have is derived from Old Testament but supports the greatest commandments Jesus taught. Deuteronomy 14:28-29 explains that 1/3 of TITHES are to be given to the widows, fatherless - the poor. (Note that this scripture reference is convieniently missing under “tithing” in lds paper topical guides and bible dictionaries.) This was the lower law. Jesus taught by word and deed to give more. I could quote them, but I think you know about Christ’s teachings like the good Samaritan story, telling the wealthy man to give all he had to the poor, and his 2 greatest commandments to love God and love others as ourselves... “on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

David,
Again, when I refer to the poor, I do not mean people who take advantage of welfare programs in the US. I am referring to such extreme poverty which includes almost 1,000,000,000 (1/7) of our brothers and sisters worldwide who are “chronically hungry,” according to the World Health Organization. Many DIE every day due to related complications of starving.