President Nelson “I know them”

[drtanner]

Another message to the world when president Nelson made his announcement was this:

“I declare my devotion to God the Eternal Father and to His Son, Jesus Christ. I know Them, love Them, and pledge to serve Them—and you—with every remaining breath of my life.”

I could never look President Nelson in his penetrating clear eyes accompanied with a sweet feeling of the spirit and deny that this is a man who knows God and will point us to a personal relationship with Christ.

[brianj]

President Nelson issued a challenge to the youth of the church to read every scripture about Jesus Christ referenced in the topical guide - about 2,200 entries. In one talk, he said that he came to really know the Father and Son through this study. This means we can, too.

[h_p]

My mission president who was also a GA told me I should use the same phrase when I testified during discussions. That never sat well with me, because to me that meant knowing Him personally, which I did not. I guess different people have different ideas about what it means. Not condemning anyone here, just pointing out it may not mean the same thing to Pres. Nelson as it does to you. Though I do sincerely believe he's a much better man than me.

[AI2.0]

What came to my mind is the Lord saying 'I never knew you', to those who professed to know him, but sure didn't live like it.

I think Pres. Nelson does 'know' the Lord and our Heavenly Father, because he's done their works and followed their ways--he's 93 years old and has truly shown his faith through his works. I also believe that for those who feel a witness of the spirit, he could be saying that he's seen them,I would never expect him to elaborate such a sacred experience to our world.

hp, I think with the sacrifice, the dedicated life lead by a full-time missionary, you know somewhat of what the Lord lived and taught. I think it's fair for a devout, humble good missionary to feel that he 'knows' the Savior, at least for that time in his life as he is fully immersed in doing the Lord's works. I suspect as a missionary in the Lord's service, you could have said that phrase and it would have been true.

[Juliet]

When I was listening to President Nelson announcing his ordination I got tired and closed my eyes. I saw Jesus in my mind walking toward me. Since that doesn't happen often I felt that it was a confirmation of Jesus' approval of President Nelson and thinking back I did pray for that confirmation. It is a good thing because I feel like it is so hard to know who you can trust these days, without confirmation I would have been tempted to harbor doubts.

[Z2100]

Another message to the world when president Nelson made his announcement was this:

“I declare my devotion to God the Eternal Father and to His Son, Jesus Christ. I know Them, love Them, and pledge to serve Them—and you—with every remaining breath of my life.”

I could never look President Nelson in his penetrating clear eyes accompanied with a sweet feeling of the spirit and deny that this is a man who knows God and will point us to a personal relationship with Christ.

Thank you for sharing this! I love and adore our prophets and apostles!

[Silver Pie]

Another message to the world when president Nelson made his announcement was this:

“I declare my devotion to God the Eternal Father and to His Son, Jesus Christ. I know Them, love Them, and pledge to serve Them—and you—with every remaining breath of my life.”

He certainly did say it in a tone that implied they were buddies and that he knew Jesus just as well as I know my best friend.

[Zathura]

My mission president who was also a GA told me I should use the same phrase when I testified during discussions. That never sat well with me, because to me that meant knowing Him personally, which I did not. I guess different people have different ideas about what it means. Not condemning anyone here, just pointing out it may not mean the same thing to Pres. Nelson as it does to you. Though I do sincerely believe he's a much better man than me.

In my closing interview at the end of my mission , I had a long conversation with my Mission President on the topic of rebirth/baptism of fire/conversion etc. At the end of it, in tears he said “I know now that you have come to know your Savior” and how much joy it gave him.

I imagine most of the time we hear this phrase they are referring to “knowing” God in the same way my Mission President said it.
I don’t think it’s completely wrong to use that word, as I can say that I did come to know my Savior and know that he is my Savior through those experiences in an intimate way that I never could before . I don’t equate that to ACTUALLY KNOWING and SEEING, but I still think it’s “knowing”.

[LukeAir2008]

I don’t know whether Pres. Nelson has seen the Father or the Son but I’m sure he knows them as he has said. You can see something but still have no understanding of it. Joseph Smith said that we will see the face of Christ only when we have been proven in every aspect of our lives. It’s when we have completed our earthly mission. Seeing the face of Christ is not available on demand. I’m sure there are many who are seeing someone’s face, but it’s not the face of Jesus Christ.

[Silver Pie]

Seeing the face of Christ is not available on demand. I’m sure there are many who are seeing someone’s face, but it’s not the face of Jesus Christ.

I tend to agree with both of these statements.

[Craig Johnson]

There is one thing about seeing the Lord that I know is true, you don't have any question at all who it is. I.E. any statement about seeing the Lord that says something like, 'I wasn't sure who it was at first' is probably bogus unless there is a REASON for it, a VERY spiritual reason which is lacking in all bogus stories. The disciples on the road to Emmaus had an important reason, a critical teaching moment. Since most of us don't write scripture it is very unlikely we would have a meeting like that, AND if we did, and this is the clincher, we would not be talking about it except on very rare spiritual occasions, certainly not in this forum.

[Craig Johnson]

My mission president who was also a GA told me I should use the same phrase when I testified during discussions. That never sat well with me, because to me that meant knowing Him personally, which I did not. I guess different people have different ideas about what it means. Not condemning anyone here, just pointing out it may not mean the same thing to Pres. Nelson as it does to you. Though I do sincerely believe he's a much better man than me.

Very gently I would like to say that if a person has not met and conversed with the Lord how can he say he knows Him? When any GA says they know Him I assume they have met and conversed with Him. When the President of the Church says he knows Him I am certain he has met and conversed with Him. And I believe that is totally to be expected after a life of complete devotion to the Lord. If someone means they know Him through the Spirit that is another matter and I actually can feel that too, but I think that is different and also to be expected.

[Mcox]

My daughter had the opportunity to interview President Nelson a few months ago. She asked the question, what does it mean to be a special witness of Christ? His answer was: it’s not necessarily a visual thing, it’s more about knowledge. He said the word witness (wit) derives from the a word meaning knowledge.(I’m paraphrasing)
I find his answer quite remarkable and I have pondered a lot on this.

[Rand]

DC 107:23 clarifies that they are ... "special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world".

This is not what we usually say in referring to them. It is a different story to be a witness to his name, instead of a witness of him. Those possessed of evil spirits were witnesses of him, but they were not witnesses of "the name of Christ".

[Finrock]

DC 107:23 clarifies that they are ... "special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world".

This is not what we usually say in referring to them. It is a different story to be a witness to his name, instead of a witness of him. Those possessed of evil spirits were witnesses of him, but they were not witnesses of "the name of Christ".

What do you think it means to be a "witness of the name of Christ"? Also, why do you believe that evil spirits were witnesses of Jesus, but not witnesses of the name of Christ?

-Finrock

[Rand]

Evil spirits are not witnesses of the name of Christ, because they don't know it and have not taken it upon themselves. The Apostles are guardians of "the way of the tree of life" and know the name, the path, the way, and are given the keys to administer that which they know to others who have shown themselves to be worthy.

[TrueIntent]

DC 107:23 clarifies that they are ... "special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world".

This is not what we usually say in referring to them. It is a different story to be a witness to his name, instead of a witness of him. Those possessed of evil spirits were witnesses of him, but they were not witnesses of "the name of Christ".

What do you think it means to be a "witness of the name of Christ"? Also, why do you believe that evil spirits were witnesses of Jesus, but not witnesses of the name of Christ?

-Finrock

As a couple followup questions to what fin rock asked....I realize that in the scriptures, "those" that were possessed with evil spirits could identify who Christ was. But as for witnesses, Thomas was a witness to the resurrected Christ in the flesh, so I would say that he was a witness of him, but no where in scripture do we see that the Apostle Thomas was possessed by evil spirits. Why do you believe that being a witness to the name of christ is different than being a "witness of him"....Im curious.

[Finrock]

Evil spirits are not witnesses of the name of Christ, because they don't know it and have not taken it upon themselves. The Apostles are guardians of "the way of the tree of life" and know the name, the path, the way, and are given the keys to administer that which they know to others who have shown themselves to be worthy.

Thanks for sharing. So, I have a couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind, so that I can be sure I understand what you are saying.

When you say the evil spirits don't "know it" do you mean that the evil spirits don't know the name "Christ" or what do you mean by that? Are you saying that the evil spirits would be like, "Hey, I know that guy, but, I just don't know his name. What was it, John? Bill? Ugh, I don't know it!" Or what do you mean?

If I understood you correctly you are also saying that "being a witness of the name of Christ" means someone who is a "guardian of 'the way of the tree of life', someone who knows the name (I'm guessing they have knowledge of the name 'Christ'), the path (I'm assuming the figurative 'path of Christ'), the way ('way of Christ'), and they are a person who has been given the keys to administer that which they know (that which they know being; "the name, the path, the way") to others who have shown themselves to be worthy. Is that correctly?

To help me to understand better, can you tell me what you believe being a witness of Christ is and how is it different from being a witness of the name of Jesus Christ?

I must say that you are providing a definition of what it means to be a "witness of the name of Christ" that is different from what I have heard before. It almost seems like you are saying "a witness of the name of Christ" means someone who is an apostles in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Is this a definition that you came up with, that you read somewhere, that you've heard, was taught to you, or how did you come up with this meaning, if you don't mind sharing?

Thank you!

-Finrock

[Rand]

Finrock, I appreciate your great questions. I feel reservation in answering them all. May I share what feels right, and not seem like I am better than you or know more than you, which I am sure I don't?

Ancient Jewish tradition says that when you know the true name of something you have power over it. Adam had such power because he named all the beasts of the field.

The evil spirits know who Jesus is, but they do not know His name. They bore witness of him in the NT. But they do not know what they need to know to come to him, and to come to where he is and to become like him. "The way" he traversed is closed to them.
Baptism is the beginning of the process of taking upon us his name. The Temple is where that process continues.

I think you can be a witness of the name of Christ without being an Apostle, but not to all the world.

[Silver Pie]

Evil spirits are not witnesses of the name of Christ, because they don't know it and have not taken it upon themselves. The Apostles are guardians of "the way of the tree of life" and know the name, the path, the way, and are given the keys to administer that which they know to others who have shown themselves to be worthy.

The way you word this makes me think the difference you're thinking of is that Nelson would reflect Christ. We take upon ourselves his name, therefor we have become one with him, or-more concisely-become a member of his family - whereas devils are not members of Christ's family, nor do they act like Christ.

[Silver Pie]

Ancient Jewish tradition says that when you know the true name of something you have power over it. Adam had such power because he named all the beasts of the field.

The evil spirits know who Jesus is, but they do not know His name. They bore witness of him in the NT. But they do not know what they need to know to come to him, and to come to where he is and to become like him. "The way" he traversed is closed to them.
Baptism is the beginning of the process of taking upon us his name. The Temple is where that process continues.

This is interesting. I didn't know this was an ancient Jewish tradition. I'm glad you shared it.

[gardener4life]

Finrock, I appreciate your great questions. I feel reservation in answering them all. May I share what feels right, and not seem like I am better than you or know more than you, which I am sure I don't?

Ancient Jewish tradition says that when you know the true name of something you have power over it. Adam had such power because he named all the beasts of the field.

The evil spirits know who Jesus is, but they do not know His name. They bore witness of him in the NT. But they do not know what they need to know to come to him, and to come to where he is and to become like him. "The way" he traversed is closed to them.
Baptism is the beginning of the process of taking upon us his name. The Temple is where that process continues.

I think you can be a witness of the name of Christ without being an Apostle, but not to all the world.

Rand did a good job with some leading thoughts. I thought I'd add a few things to his comments which were good.

Adam was given dominion over the whole Earth. So yes, the naming thing had power. He also had the chance to set the tone and example of everyone coming after. You needed a really righteous man to do that.

The evil spirits saw Jesus in an adversarial role. Not as a friend, ally, and family member. Recall that on one occasion, some of them said to him, "art thou come to torment us before the time?" "We know who thou art, Jesus..." They were saying this partly out of pride,fear, and identifying their enemy (because they only know war not peace). They weren't bearing testimony of him but were trying to manipulate the situation for themselves.

You absolutely can be a witness of the name of Christ without being an apostle. And we're only limited by knowing him.

In the sacrament prayers...the most sacred ordinance by the way...it says 'take upon them the name of thy son...' Isn't that precious? And also in the D&C and in other places there are areas where it quotes by living faithful we will become his sons & daughters. (Very cool...) I would also say that the Sacrament prayers have deep, deep special meaning. We tend to generalize them because we take the sacrament every week. But as you listen to them and the wording, you can feel the special empathy in the sacrament prayers alluding to the connection with God being of family and close relationship; not just a business deal like that between people that have no connection at all. I'm always surprised by how much you can learn studying the sacrament prayers.

So in essence we're really taking on more than just a witness in name only but establishing a real bond with him. The closer we get to him and Heavenly Father the more that bond becomes more than in just name only.

I hope that helps.

[Zathura]

we will become his sons & daughters. (Very cool...)

This IS very cool!
This is is why I talk about spiritual rebirth/born of God/Baptism of Fire/Baptism of Spirit often. You become a son or daughter of God only once you have been Born of God, which occurs when you are baptized by Fire and Holy Ghost.

[waialeale]

Below is a something very useful for this threads topic. I personally testify with all of my heart and soul and being that the words that Elder Hyde teaches us below are true, yet I durst not cast that which is so holy before the world in specifics. I am simply sharing what I know to be true by personal experience today as when it was taught. It comes from the Journal of discourse's volume one: The Man to Lead God's People—Overcoming—A Pillar in the Temple of God—Angels' Visits—the Earth
A Discourse by President Orson Hyde, Delivered at the General Conference Held in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, Oct. 6, 1853.
Reported by G. D. Watt.

True it is, that in the most trying hour, the servants of God may then be permitted to see their Father, and elder brother. “But,” says one, “I wish to see the Father, and the Savior, and an angel now.” Before you can see the Father, the Savior, or an angel, you have to be brought into close places in order to enjoy this manifestation. The fact is, your very life must be suspended on a thread, as it were. If you want to see your Savior, be willing to come to that point where no mortal arm can rescue, no earthly power save! When all other things fail, when everything else proves futile and fruitless, then perhaps your Savior and your Redeemer may appear; his arm is not shortened that he cannot save, nor his ear heavy that he cannot hear; and when help on all sides appears to fail, my arm shall save, my power shall rescue, and you shall hear my voice, saith the Lord.

[Col. Flagg]

I'm one of those who saw the 1999 downtown Salt Lake tornado as a sign that God was not happy with what the church was doing at the time (beginning to seek the honors of men with great and spacious buildings, getting in bed with Babylon financially, focusing more on money and business than spiritual matters, etc.), thus, why would God or the Savior reveal anything or themselves to any of the leadership of the church?