Resources/Talks on Sustaining the Prophet

[Zathura]

Please list the best resources/talks/stories you have for sustaining the Prophet here. I’d greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Arenera]

https://www.lds.org/church/news/viewpoi ... r?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng
This was by Elder Nelson, now the Prophet.

How do we really sustain a prophet? Long before he became President of the Church, President Joseph F. Smith explained, “It is an important duty resting upon the Saints who … sustain the authorities of the Church, to do so not only by the lifting of the hand, the mere form, but in deed and in truth.”

Well do I remember my most unique “deed” to sustain a prophet. As a medical doctor and cardiac surgeon, I had the responsibility of performing open-heart surgery on President Spencer W. Kimball in 1972, when he was Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. He needed a very complex operation. But I had no experience doing such a procedure on a 77-year-old patient in heart failure. I did not recommend the operation and so informed President Kimball and the First Presidency. But, in faith, President Kimball chose to have the operation, only because it was advised by the First Presidency. That shows how he sustained his leaders! And his decision made me tremble!

Thanks to the Lord, the operation was a success. When President Kimball’s heart resumed beating, it did so with great power! At that very moment, I had a clear witness of the Spirit that this man would one day become President of the Church!3

You know the outcome. Only 20 months later, President Kimball became President of the Church. And he provided bold and courageous leadership for many years.

Twenty-six years before he became President of the Church, then-Elder George Albert Smith said: “The obligation that we make when we raise our hands … is a most sacred one. It does not mean that we will go quietly on our way and be willing that the prophet of the Lord shall direct this work, but it means … that we will stand behind him; we will pray for him; we will defend his good name, and we will strive to carry out his instructions as the Lord shall direct.”

[Zathura]

Bump. Please post anything on sustaining prophets here

[Silver]

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1974/01/unde ... t?lang=eng

By understanding who we are we can gain a testimony of who the prophets are and we will be more likely to sustain them.

[Zathura]

I appreciate what’s been shared so far. Any other recommendations would be wonderful.

[Finrock]

I'm surprised there aren't more responses with so much talk about how great it is to put one's hand to the square to sustain prophets, expressions of being proud to sustain prophets, and how wonderful it is to have prophets, etc., you'd think this thread would be on fire.

-Finrock

[brianj]

I'm surprised there aren't more responses with so much talk about how great it is to put one's hand to the square to sustain prophets, expressions of being proud to sustain prophets, and how wonderful it is to have prophets, etc., you'd think this thread would be on fire.

-Finrock

I mentioned doing so in stake conference last weekend in another thread.

[mcusick]

I wonder when the "sustain the prophet" was introduced in Mormon-speak, since it isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants. Does anyone understand the timing of this development?

[gardener4life]

I wonder when the "sustain the prophet" was introduced in Mormon-speak, since it isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants. Does anyone understand the timing of this development?

Oh what an interesting question you've presented!

Here are some verses to help with this. You can judge for yourself their meanings;

3 Nephi 3:19

19 Now it was the custom among all the Nephites to appoint for their chief captains, (save it were in their times of wickedness) some one that had the aspirit of revelation and also prophecy; therefore, this Gidgiddoni was a great prophet among them, as also was the chief judge.

Alma 9:21

21 Having been avisited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of btranslation; (By this one I would suggest to you that they had read or heard stories like this, that their prophets had experiences like Joseph Smith with meeting angels. You would think someone with experiences like that as pretty special. There are similar experiences of their prophets describing such in their history in many places.)

Jacob 4:6

6 Wherefore, we search the prophets, and we have many revelations and the spirit of aprophecy; and having all these bwitnesses we obtain a hope, and our faith becometh unshaken, insomuch that we truly can ccommand in the dname of Jesus and the very trees obey us, or the mountains, or the waves of the sea. (Hmm, they believed that this office was much more than just a title.)

And....

Alma Chapter 4
11 And it came to pass in the commencement of the ninth year, Alma saw the wickedness of the church, and he saw also that the example of the church began to lead those who were unbelievers on from one piece of iniquity to another, thus bringing on the destruction of the people.
12 Yea, he saw great inequality among the people, some lifting themselves up with their pride, despising others, turning their backs upon the needy and the naked and those who were hungry, and those who were athirst, and those who were sick and afflicted.
13 Now this was a great cause for lamentations among the people, while others were abasing themselves, succoring those who stood in need of their succor, such as imparting their substance to the poor and the needy, feeding the hungry, and suffering all manner of afflictions, for Christ’s sake, who should come according to the spirit of prophecy;
14 Looking forward to that day, thus retaining a remission of their sins; being filled with great joy because of the resurrection of the dead, according to the will and power and deliverance of Jesus Christ from the bands of death.
15 And now it came to pass that Alma, having seen the afflictions of the humble followers of God, and the persecutions which were heaped upon them by the remainder of his people, and seeing all their inequality, began to be very sorrowful; nevertheless the Spirit of the Lord did not fail him.
16 And he selected a wise man who was among the elders of the church, and gave him power according to the voice of the people, that he might have power to enact laws according to the laws which had been given, and to put them in force according to the wickedness and the crimes of the people.

OK what's interesting about Chapter 4 is that prior to this event, there wasn't as much separation of church and state as afterwards. He in effect, separated the prophet from the presiding Chief Judge. This shows that both were revered...or else if they hadn't have been then this event wouldn't had to occur. Prior to this event the presiding high priest and the judge were the same. And prior to King Mosiah, high priest, prophet, and King were all meshed into one. Recall that King Benjamin & also to a certain extent Mosiah also taught that they shouldn't have kings. Mosiah set it up, Benjamin was the first to teach it and teach by example. After these two kings they converted to a system of judges. It was when Mosiah was choosing his successor "Aaron" that it was changed. Aaron chose to be a full time missionary instead and to save the people in other ways, rather than live off the people as a king. Mosiah seeing that if someone wicked were to become the king it could cause Aaron to regret and come back for it, which would have caused a civil war. See Chapter 29 Of Mosiah (the last chapter). And it just so happens that Amlici shows up only a few chapters later...Mosiah foresaw this through the Spirit of the Lord.

I hope this sincerely helps you with your honest inquiry.

[marc]

I have found the wording in this to be a most intriguing and weighty statement by President Nelson:

Our sustaining is an oath-like indication that we recognize their calling as a prophet to be legitimate and binding upon us.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

[Silver]

Doctrine & Covenants 135:
6 Hyrum Smith was forty-four years old in February, 1844, and Joseph Smith was thirty-eight in December, 1843; and henceforward their names will be classed among the martyrs of religion; and the reader in every nation will be reminded that the Book of Mormon, and this book of Doctrine and Covenants of the church, cost the best blood of the nineteenth century to bring them forth for the salvation of a ruined world;

This verse comes from the official canon of the Church. We will be judged by these words you've just read. The "best blood of the nineteenth century" was spilt for us. Sustaining is the least we can do.

[Jesef]

Do martyrs arm themselves and shoot back?

[Silver]

Do martyrs arm themselves and shoot back?

Know ye not that there are more definitions of martyr than one?

martyr
[mahr-ter]
noun
1.
a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2.
a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause.

Joseph stated:
D&C 135:
4 When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I shall die innocent, and it shall yet be said of me—he was murdered in cold blood.”—The same morning, after Hyrum had made ready to go—shall it be said to the slaughter?

The martyr goes to Carthage anyway.

Joseph was trying to save the lives of those in the room with him.

[shadow]

I wonder when the "sustain the prophet" was introduced in Mormon-speak, since it isn't mentioned in the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants. Does anyone understand the timing of this development?

It's pertains to the law of common consent.
Revelation to Joseph Smith January 19, 1841-

144 And a commandment I give unto you, that you should fill all these offices and approve of those names which I have mentioned, or else disapprove of them at my general conference;

[AI2.0]

Do martyrs arm themselves and shoot back?

Hugh Nibley has pointed out that to be a martyr, one did not have to die, but these days, the term has taken on a different meaning. And Yes, if you are armed and someone is trying to kill you, you have the right to defend yourself. I've always been proud of Joseph for trying to save himself and his friends from the murderous mob. There's nothing dishonorable in that.

[AI2.0]

Please list the best resources/talks/stories you have for sustaining the Prophet here. I’d greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Stahura, Do you think you'll get much out of this if others do all the research for you?

[AI2.0]

I'm surprised there aren't more responses with so much talk about how great it is to put one's hand to the square to sustain prophets, expressions of being proud to sustain prophets, and how wonderful it is to have prophets, etc., you'd think this thread would be on fire.

-Finrock

It's not a matter of being 'proud', it's a matter of why Stahura's asking. If this is an assignment to be used to pick apart and question whatever talks, scriptures/quotes are offered, then I'm not interested. I'd only be interested in helping if Stahura is sincerely wanting to find out why he/she ought to sustain the Prophet--and if that's the case, it's better for the questioner to do their own research, because that's the most effective way to learn and to receive answers.

[Finrock]

It's not a matter of being 'proud', it's a matter of why Stahura's asking.

Is it, really?

-Finrock

[Zathura]

Please list the best resources/talks/stories you have for sustaining the Prophet here. I’d greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Stahura, Do you think you'll get much out of this if others do all the research for you?

I do my own study.



In church meetings everyone contributes, gives their thoughts that come from their experiences and studies . This is no different.

D&C 88:77

[Zathura]

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

Found a neat talk by Janette Hales Beckham.

There isn’t much out there on this topic, hence why I came looking for some experiences or stories or older conference talks etc.

[Thinker]

Resources/Talks on importance of not blindly sustaining or following anyone:

1. OT:
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
“The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.” –Proberbs 14:15

2. NT:
"Why callest thou me good, none is GOoD, save one, that is God." -Jesus
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, & with all thy soul, & with all thy mind. This is the 1st & great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” –Matt 22:37-40
So, if any law or prophet tells you to do something that breaks the 2 highest commandments, do not do it, but instead keep the higher commandments which, as Jesus explained, prioritize above laws and prophets.

3. B of M:
“For behold, ye do love money, & your substance, & your fine apparel, & the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor & the needy, the sick & the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies – because of the praise of the world?” –Mormon 8:37-38
If a prophet does not follow the lowest law of tithing, in giving 1/3 of tithes to the poor, as commanded in Deut. 14:28-29, then that is a sign they are false prophets because they are not obeying the law of tithing which falls under Jesus Christ's greatest commandments, "which hang all of the law and the prophets."

4. LDS Quotes:
"Search the scriptures, search the prophets, and learn what portion of them belongs to you." -Joseph Smith
This implies that you don't just blindly follow ANY fallible human being, but search and find and follow only that which you find good.

"I do not know a worse degree of slavery than to be afraid to think for yourself and speak what you believe." - George Teasdale
What if free-speech in America were limited as it is in the church? I think it would be or lead to hell.

"An egotist will never get anywhere in this world because he thinks he's already there." -MJ Ashton
"If we value house, if we value lands, if we value good name, if we value even life itself more than we do the truth, we are unworthy of the truth." -GQ Cannon

5. Other quotes:
American Family Foundation: Characteristics of a cult:

• "The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
  *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
  *The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
  *The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (ie: no financial transparency)."

For several more extensive lists: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/up ... istics.htm

“Isolating oneself into a narrowly defined victim group promotes a view of others as irrelevant at best and dangerous at worst, which eventually only leads to further alienation. Gangs, extremist political parties, and religious cults may provide solace, but they rarely foster the mental flexibility needed to be fully open to what life has to offer and as such cannot liberate their members from their traumas. Well-functioning people are able to accept individual differences and acknowledge the humanity of others.”
― Bessel A. van der Kolk, The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

=

I believe that the leaders of our church are in-deed leading our church, but I cannot in good conscience sustain the way they deal with finances, considering the lack of transparency, the breaking of their responsibility in handling tithes, charging for worthiness (temple recommends based on tithing) and charging based on income rather than as scriptures rightful indicate, "increase" (which is like assuming a business's income is all increase despite the need to pay employees, bills etc). I appreciate the good of the church and the good things that I hear at conference etc, but as with everything, I try to do as Joseph Smith suggested and take only the part that is really GOoD.