Multiple Mortal Probations Article

[AI2.0]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

[Alaris]

Where is this anger coming from? Did you have an ex girlfriend who believes in mmp?

The non mmp folks in this thread (I'll try to stop using naysayer as gardener4life had a great call to stand a little taller) have offered extremely little substance. This thread was created to discuss mmp. I already know it's a true principle. Desertwonderer2 has all the fruits of a true disciple of Jesus Christ and has joined with the loving stone casting.

The high horse comment is humorous given its a proud idiom and only one of us is name calling, condemning, telling people prayer is a waste of time, and asking others to take one's word for it over offering substance and an invitation to ponder and pray.

I am going to pray that God send you a loving acknowledgement today that you've stepped by the wayside and are indeed attacking one of His own - a true disciple of Jesus Christ after His Holy Order - someone who has learned by His Spirit and Has been permitted by Him to share what I have shared online in these spaces. Of course I don't speak for the church, but I do speak by Him and His Spirit having authority to do so as outlined in the scriptures by His will and authority. You can check that just like you can and should check anything such as a personal calling or any of the Lord's Servants' callings by prayer. Be open to either an affirmative or a negative. Or you can wait and see and be shown as Korihor was.

Saving this one for posterity. It's all the proof any sane person needs to show how off you are. If I use certain words, it's bad. If you use sarcasm and condescension it's good. You should see your bishop and get your lingering issues taken care of.

You're not wrong. I'm sure there is a better way to deal with those who behoove themselves to police the Lord's boundaries by the spirit of contention without His leave. I do appreciate the opportunity to see where I may improve.

Now your true self is coming out. Why don't you pronounce a curse on my head, you apostate?

Beyond what you do now online? You are already living a curse by living by the spirit of contention and all the unhappiness that goes along with that. My intent is to help you get out of this place from where you are stuck. Let's see what the Lord's intent is for you.

[Silver]

Saving this one for posterity. It's all the proof any sane person needs to show how off you are. If I use certain words, it's bad. If you use sarcasm and condescension it's good. You should see your bishop and get your lingering issues taken care of.

You're not wrong. I'm sure there is a better way to deal with those who behoove themselves to police the Lord's boundaries by the spirit of contention without His leave. I do appreciate the opportunity to see where I may improve.

Now your true self is coming out. Why don't you pronounce a curse on my head, you apostate?

Beyond what you do now online? You are already living a curse by living by the spirit of contention and all the unhappiness that goes along with that. My intent is to help you get out of this place from where you are stuck. Let's see what the Lord's intent is for you.

You're in need a comforting interview with your bishop. Don't delay. It's your eternal soul that is in peril. President Uchtdorf has told you that you're wrong. Will you continue to kick against the pricks?

[Silver]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

[Alaris]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

I have told you I will be happy to admit I am wrong when a prophet - who has the sole authority to define doctrine - declares it false - or at the judgement bar - whichever happens first. If President Uchtdorf said that and it was an answer to your prayers - great! Pardon my incredulity but every single person who has chimed in on this thread and offered either scriptural or extra-scriptural evidence to refute MMP hasn't come anywhere near compelling. Otherwise, why would you be holding your breath for this answer to your prayers? What have you been praying for? My soul or being proven right?

Still, I'll be happy to address what President Uchtdorf has said. If his comments are more compelling than what's been offered here - all the "salvation" misunderstanding, "never" to be divided - you know all that's been easily addressed - I promise I will admit it for what it appears to be. However, if what he says is in line with all the other contrary evidence that has been brought up - I will address it as easily as I have.

Try to see this from my perspective. This is not a doctrine I stumbled into but one that has come from years of study and prayer that has resulted in many sacred experiences that have built my understanding line upon line. I have felt the Spirit confirm I should share this - in fact I was planning on writing a different article next but felt moved by the Spirit to jump to this. If it was the Spirit's will that I be harangued into abandoning false doctrine - see I can't even write this poppycock and finish the sentence! You have been relatively civil AI2.0, so thank you for that. However, the adversary is pulling those purse strings hard in this thread. The spirit of contention and evil has been palpable in this thread - I have felt it's muck as it is laced and interwoven into the words of contention offered by those less civil than you. The adversary is fighting this hard, and I believe I know why. The truth of MMP would naturally come out at the advent of the millennium imho - just before, during, just after. Whether the next prophet declares it publicly, that is the Lord's will. I certainly don't view my article in such light as you all have seen I am not alone in this belief - despite you all attempting to strawman me as the fall guy.

However, this thread has only reinforced my testimony of MMP. I served my mission in Texas and could see first hand how hard the adversary fights against the truth by those who have allowed him to place those flaxen cords that have become strong chains. Anti-Jehovah's Witnesses and Anti-Catholicism propaganda is nowhere near on the level of Anti-Mormon. The spirit of the adversary is laced in that undertaking as those materials carry with them that selfsame spirit that fights all of God's truth. So, those of you who have sought to protect the boundaries of the mysteries you say are impossible by the spirit of contention have only clearly demonstrated that the adversary is the one fighting this truth. Thank you for that, but please get down on your knees and distance yourselves now from that evil by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

[AI2.0]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

I heard it too, it was straight out of his mouth to everyone who was listening to that devotional. It may be up on the church's website by now, but I'm not sure you will care, I suspect you will blow him off the same as you've blown off other church leaders.

I also saw this today. I don't know why I'd forgotten this, I've listened to this talk numerous times, but it finally jumped out at me, when I read it in print--thanks to freedomforall for posting this on that other thread.

This is from Elder McConkie's famous Heresies talk. This is the part which is pertinent to MMP.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Heresy seven: There are those who believe we must be perfect to gain salvation.
This is not really a great heresy, only a doctrinal misunderstanding that I mention here in order to help round out our discussion and to turn our attention from negative to positive things. If we keep two principles in mind we will thereby know that good and faithful members of the Church will be saved, even though they are far from perfect in this life.
These two principles are (1) that this life is the appointed time for men to prepare to meet God--this life is the day of our probation; and (2) that the same spirit which possesses our bodies at the time we go out of this mortal life shall have power to possess our bodies in that eternal world.
What we are doing as members of the Church is charting a course leading to eternal life. There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity. The prophet taught that there are many things to be done, even beyond the grave, in working out our salvation.
And so what we do in this life is chart a course leading to eternal life. That course begins here and now and continues in the realms ahead. We must determine in our hearts and in our souls, with all the power and ability we have, that from this time forward we will press on in righteousness; by so doing we can go where God and Christ are. If we make that firm determination, and are in the course of our duty when this life is over, we will continue in that course in eternity. That same spirit that possesses our bodies at the time we depart from this mortal life will have power to possess our bodies in the eternal world. If we go out of this life loving the Lord, desiring righteousness, and seeking to acquire the attributes of godliness, we will have that same spirit in the eternal world, and we will then continue to advance and progress until an ultimate, destined day when we will possess, receive, and inherit all things.

Things that Alaris' preaches which Elder McConkie disputes in this talk:

MMP teaches that we perfect ourselves
This life is the time to prepare to meet God
The same spirit which we go out of this mortal world will possess our body in the eternal world (not have 100s of 1000's of different bodies to choose from)
Jesus Christ was the one perfect being. 'If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity.' That is directly in conflict with Alaris' version of MMP, were we continue to live mortal lives until we live the law perfectly.

[Silver]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

I have told you I will be happy to admit I am wrong when a prophet - who has the sole authority to define doctrine - declares it false - or at the judgement bar - whichever happens first. If President Uchtdorf said that and it was an answer to your prayers - great! Pardon my incredulity but every single person who has chimed in on this thread and offered either scriptural or extra-scriptural evidence to refute MMP hasn't come anywhere near compelling. Otherwise, why would you be holding your breath for this answer to your prayers? What have you been praying for? My soul or being proven right?

Still, I'll be happy to address what President Uchtdorf has said. If his comments are more compelling than what's been offered here - all the "salvation" misunderstanding, "never" to be divided - you know all that's been easily addressed - I promise I will admit it for what it appears to be. However, if what he says is in line with all the other contrary evidence that has been brought up - I will address it as easily as I have.

Try to see this from my perspective. This is not a doctrine I stumbled into but one that has come from years of study and prayer that has resulted in many sacred experiences that have built my understanding line upon line. I have felt the Spirit confirm I should share this - in fact I was planning on writing a different article next but felt moved by the Spirit to jump to this. If it was the Spirit's will that I be harangued into abandoning false doctrine - see I can't even write this poppycock and finish the sentence! You have been relatively civil AI2.0, so thank you for that. However, the adversary is pulling those purse strings hard in this thread. The spirit of contention and evil has been palpable in this thread - I have felt it's muck as it is laced and interwoven into the words of contention offered by those less civil than you. The adversary is fighting this hard, and I believe I know why. The truth of MMP would naturally come out at the advent of the millennium imho - just before, during, just after. Whether the next prophet declares it publicly, that is the Lord's will. I certainly don't view my article in such light as you all have seen I am not alone in this belief - despite you all attempting to strawman me as the fall guy.

However, this thread has only reinforced my testimony of MMP. I served my mission in Texas and could see first hand how hard the adversary fights against the truth by those who have allowed him to place those flaxen cords that have become strong chains. Anti-Jehovah's Witnesses and Anti-Catholicism propaganda is nowhere near on the level of Anti-Mormon. The spirit of the adversary is laced in that undertaking as those materials carry with them that selfsame spirit that fights all of God's truth. So, those of you who have sought to protect the boundaries of the mysteries you say are impossible by the spirit of contention have only clearly demonstrated that the adversary is the one fighting this truth. Thank you for that, but please get down on your knees and distance yourselves now from it by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

In other words, alaris is saying that he promises to do what's right, but only if Elder Uchtdorf meets all alaris' conditions. alaris will show him who's in charge. Yes he will.

Note how alaris closes his screed. "However, this thread has only reinforced my testimony of MMP." We know this is a very sad lie because you cannot obtain a testimony of something that is false. Or, at least, you can't obtain such a conviction from the Lord. Poor alaris. I really pity him. Fighting against the truth until the bitter end. It's not often that one witnesses such a sad display of rebellion.

[AI2.0]

Alaris, in discussions, you have a habit of complaining that other posters are naysayers, bringing contention, mocking etc.

Reading that old thread which was linked to, I found this example of where you accused someone on a thread;

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Alaris: "Freedomforall you may as well not bother attempting to engage me in a gospel discussion aslong as your comments are laced with contention and condescension".

Wow, he must have said something awful. Would you like to know what he did say, that you claimed was 'laced with contention and condescension'?

Here it is;

Freedomforall:
"D&C 132:24
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

D&C 132:30 (30–31)
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

For the life of me I can't see how anyone could conclude these verses relate to a person having many lives after death. Doesn't the term "eternal lives" relate to a multitude of people having received eternal life? So the term eternal lives is plural not singular?"

Seriously? He quoted scripture and then asked for you to explain how you could teach what you did in light of the scriptures. You blasted him with allegations that he was being contentious and condescending, when in actuality, his post is an example of discussion. If others are not allowed to request that you offer explanations for what you share here, how are we supposed to discuss?

You need to develop a thicker skin and stop using this excuse to try to win your arguments, especially because it's not working as a tactic.

[inho]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

Uchtdorf (the link takes you to the correct time in the talk):

My dear young friends, you pass through the adventure of mortality only once.

[Alaris]

Alaris, in discussions, you have a habit of complaining that other posters are naysayers, bringing contention, mocking etc.

Reading that old thread which was linked to, I found this example of where you accused someone on a thread;

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Alaris: "Freedomforall you may as well not bother attempting to engage me in a gospel discussion aslong as your comments are laced with contention and condescension".

Wow, he must have said something awful. Would you like to know what he did say, that you claimed was 'laced with contention and condescension'?

Here it is;

Freedomforall:
"D&C 132:24
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

D&C 132:30 (30–31)
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

For the life of me I can't see how anyone could conclude these verses relate to a person having many lives after death. Doesn't the term "eternal lives" relate to a multitude of people having received eternal life? So the term eternal lives is plural not singular?"

Seriously? He quoted scripture and then asked for you to explain how you could teach what you did in light of the scriptures. You blasted him with allegations that he was being contentious and condescending, when in actuality, his post is an example of discussion. If others are not allowed to request that you offer explanations for what you share here, how are we supposed to discuss?

You need to develop a thicker skin and stop using this excuse to try to win your arguments, especially because it's not working as a tactic.

We've already established that those opposed to MMP coincidentally struggle with the spirit of contention. There is no surprise that you've taken this out of a thread out of context and your very comment is contentious. You all are the ones digging a hole here. You think the lurker here that isn't infected by the same spirit is reading you and Silver taking posts out of other threads as anything other than shameful behavior? It does not help you from a pure debate standpoint as it looks like overcompensation - it doesn't help you from a civility standpoint as it is anything but - and it certainly doesn't help you teach by the Spirit. What you're doing is damaging your own soul. You cannot serve God and Mammon. You cannot protect the boundaries of the gospel, or clarify, or teach by the spirit of contention.

[Silver]

Alaris, in discussions, you have a habit of complaining that other posters are naysayers, bringing contention, mocking etc.

Reading that old thread which was linked to, I found this example of where you accused someone on a thread;

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Alaris: "Freedomforall you may as well not bother attempting to engage me in a gospel discussion aslong as your comments are laced with contention and condescension".

Wow, he must have said something awful. Would you like to know what he did say, that you claimed was 'laced with contention and condescension'?

Here it is;

Freedomforall:
"D&C 132:24
24 This is eternal lives—to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

D&C 132:30 (30–31)
30 Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.
31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

For the life of me I can't see how anyone could conclude these verses relate to a person having many lives after death. Doesn't the term "eternal lives" relate to a multitude of people having received eternal life? So the term eternal lives is plural not singular?"

Seriously? He quoted scripture and then asked for you to explain how you could teach what you did in light of the scriptures. You blasted him with allegations that he was being contentious and condescending, when in actuality, his post is an example of discussion. If others are not allowed to request that you offer explanations for what you share here, how are we supposed to discuss?

You need to develop a thicker skin and stop using this excuse to try to win your arguments, especially because it's not working as a tactic.

We've already established that those opposed to MMP coincidentally struggle with the spirit of contention. There is no surprise that you've taken this out of a thread out of context and your very comment is contentious. You all are the ones digging a hole here. You think the lurker here that isn't infected by the same spirit is reading you and Silver taking posts out of other threads as anything other than shameful behavior? It does not help you from a pure debate standpoint as it looks like overcompensation - it doesn't help you from a civility standpoint as it is anything but - and it certainly doesn't help you teach by the Spirit. What you're doing is damaging your own soul. You cannot serve God and Mammon. You cannot protect the boundaries of the gospel, or clarify, or teach by the spirit of contention.

To the bitter end...

[AI2.0]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

How about getting off your high horse and watching the video yourself?

Where is this anger coming from? Did you have an ex girlfriend who believes in mmp?

The non mmp folks in this thread (I'll try to stop using naysayer as gardener4life had a great call to stand a little taller) have offered extremely little substance. This thread was created to discuss mmp. I already know it's a true principle. Desertwonderer2 has all the fruits of a true disciple of Jesus Christ and has joined with the loving stone casting.

The high horse comment is humorous given its a proud idiom and only one of us is name calling, condemning, telling people prayer is a waste of time, and asking others to take one's word for it over offering substance and an invitation to ponder and pray.

I am going to pray that God send you a loving acknowledgement today that you've stepped by the wayside and are indeed attacking one of His own - a true disciple of Jesus Christ after His Holy Order - someone who has learned by His Spirit and Has been permitted by Him to share what I have shared online in these spaces. Of course I don't speak for the church, but I do speak by Him and His Spirit having authority to do so as outlined in the scriptures by His will and authority. You can check that just like you can and should check anything such as a personal calling or any of the Lord's Servants' callings by prayer. Be open to either an affirmative or a negative. Or you can wait and see and be shown as Korihor was.

I don't think it's anger, it's frustration. No matter what we share, you say ''the non mmp folks in this thread have offered extremely little substance'. That's an outright falsehood. This thread is 15 pages because for two weeks we've been sharing scriptures, quotes, doctrinal sources for LDS.org and our own comments, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. No wonder he's frustrated. Then, Desertwonderer2 shares some of the counsel from Elder Uchtdorf and you accuse him of 'loving stone casting'. How does he deserve a charge like that?

No one has asked you to take their word for it, they've given you countless examples of where your version of MMP is not LDS doctrine, is not conducive to LDS teachings and is not in harmony with the teachings of the LDS church.

Now you suggest you speak for God? No, you don't. All this stuff you share, you apparently believe was revealed to you, yet these things are not in harmony with the established teachings of the CofJCofLDS. That's a sure sign to me that you are being guided and taught by a false spirit. As long as you continue to promote beliefs that contradict the pure and plain doctrines of the LDS church, you don't speak for God.

[Sarah]

We were reading these verses in Sunday School yesterday and it made me think of this thread.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

We see here that even the noble and great ones were spirits. It seems the only way this theory would work is if you believe that when your mortal life is over you can defer resurrection and remain a spirit. So lets say I live into the millennium, live to the age of a tree, and then am changed, does that mean (according the the mmp theory) that I could choose to be transformed into a spirit body again and not my resurrected body? What would I be doing as a spirit for 1 thousand years? Who is creating brand-new spirit bodies that will enter the 1st estate for the next round, and who is occupying the celestial world after the millennium?

[Alaris]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

Uchtdorf (the link takes you to the correct time in the talk):

My dear young friends, you pass through the adventure of mortality only once.

As promised, I do admit that is pretty compelling. However ... backing up the talk a few minutes shows a very interesting context. The context is making life's decisions. He speaks of the pattern offered by the Lord to receive. He speaks of us having both a brain and a heart - something that's been lacking somewhat in this thread. He speaks of how the Lord shows us how to address decisions that have more than one option and how the Lord gave such counsel to Joseph and his companions. Work with the information available to you and strive for success and be faithful. Do that and the dots will connect. I'm paraphrasing here. Then he makes the point - do you really want the Lord to hand you the answers without being offered a chance to figure things out for yourself? What kind of adventure would that be. My dear young friends, you pass through the adventure of mortality only once. He then makes the humorous comparison to the choose your own adventure story.

So, touché. I'll certainly give you that is a compelling statement. However, perhaps the scope of his comment is once per eternal round. That certainly isn't a stretch to the context of his comments or Alma's comments about this life being the time to prepare to meet God - certainly that's also true within the context of MMP. His talk certainly is not about the meatier truth of Eternal Progression but appears to be a focused talk offered to the youth of the church and about the adventure of mortality. Guess what children? Those on the path to exaltation will have to endure more than one mortality!

President Uchtdof's talk is exactly what I have been praying for as well - that people will take the information that is available and pray for themselves. I have never asked anyone to take my word alone, and never will. Yet the dissenting crew certainly treats the lurker exactly that way. How many now have said praying is a waste of time over this issue? This is why I constantly point out the spirit of contention while offering substance. The substance cannot reach anyone without the Spirit of the Lord and the spirit of contention chases away that Spirit. Those who "teach" by the spirit of contention will never teach by the Spirit of God.

I know what has been revealed to me and have enough faith in that process I wouldn't even want to convince a single soul without that same Spirit that taught me. I know this is a meaty doctrine and not all are detached from the breast--I have faith that the way I have been impressed to write and share my testimony on the subject will reach those whom the Lord wills in the way He wills it.

The bottom line is this was neither the scope of Elder Uchtdorf's talk nor is it his purview to declare doctrine. His comments, though compelling, do not necessarily lead me to believe he himself is unaware of MMP or was speaking to that end at all.

[Silver]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

Uchtdorf (the link takes you to the correct time in the talk):

My dear young friends, you pass through the adventure of mortality only once.

As promised, I do admit that is pretty compelling. However ... backing up the talk a few minutes shows a very interesting context. The context is making life's decisions. He speaks of the pattern offered by the Lord to receive. He speaks of us having both a brain and a heart - something that's been lacking somewhat in this thread. He speaks of how the Lord shows us how to address decisions that have more than one option and how the Lord gave such counsel to Joseph and his companions. Work with the information available to you and strive for success and be faithful. Do that and the dots will connect. I'm paraphrasing here. Then he makes the point - do you really want the Lord to hand you the answers without being offered a chance to figure things out for yourself? What kind of adventure would that be. My dear young friends, you pass through the adventure of mortality only once. He then makes the humorous comparison to the choose your own adventure story.

So, touché. I'll certainly give you that is a compelling statement. However, perhaps the scope of his comment is once per eternal round. That certainly isn't a stretch to the context of his comments or Alma's comments about this life being the time to prepare to meet God - certainly that's also true within the context of MMP. His talk certainly is not about the meatier truth of Eternal Progression but appears to be a focused talk offered to the youth of the church and about the adventure of mortality. Guess what children? Those on the path to exaltation will have to endure more than one mortality!

President Uchtdof's talk is exactly what I have been praying for as well - that people will take the information that is available and pray for themselves. I have never asked anyone to take my word alone, and never will. Yet the dissenting crew certainly treats the lurker exactly that way. How many now have said praying is a waste of time over this issue? This is why I constantly point out the spirit of contention while offering substance. The substance cannot reach anyone without the Spirit of the Lord and the spirit of contention chases away that Spirit. Those who "teach" by the spirit of contention will never teach by the Spirit of God.

I know what has been revealed to me and have enough faith in that process I wouldn't even want to convince a single soul without that same Spirit that taught me. I know this is a meaty doctrine and not all are detached from the breast--I have faith that the way I have been impressed to write and share my testimony on the subject will reach those whom the Lord wills in the way He wills it.

The bottom line is this was neither the scope of Elder Uchtdorf's talk nor is it his purview to declare doctrine. His comments, though compelling, do not necessarily lead me to believe he himself is unaware of MMP or was speaking to that end at all.

To the bitter, bitterer, bitterest end. alaris wins the award for the Apostate of the Year, 2018!

[Alaris]

It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

How about getting off your high horse and watching the video yourself?

Where is this anger coming from? Did you have an ex girlfriend who believes in mmp?

The non mmp folks in this thread (I'll try to stop using naysayer as gardener4life had a great call to stand a little taller) have offered extremely little substance. This thread was created to discuss mmp. I already know it's a true principle. Desertwonderer2 has all the fruits of a true disciple of Jesus Christ and has joined with the loving stone casting.

The high horse comment is humorous given its a proud idiom and only one of us is name calling, condemning, telling people prayer is a waste of time, and asking others to take one's word for it over offering substance and an invitation to ponder and pray.

I am going to pray that God send you a loving acknowledgement today that you've stepped by the wayside and are indeed attacking one of His own - a true disciple of Jesus Christ after His Holy Order - someone who has learned by His Spirit and Has been permitted by Him to share what I have shared online in these spaces. Of course I don't speak for the church, but I do speak by Him and His Spirit having authority to do so as outlined in the scriptures by His will and authority. You can check that just like you can and should check anything such as a personal calling or any of the Lord's Servants' callings by prayer. Be open to either an affirmative or a negative. Or you can wait and see and be shown as Korihor was.

I don't think it's anger, it's frustration. No matter what we share, you say ''the non mmp folks in this thread have offered extremely little substance'. That's an outright falsehood. This thread is 15 pages because for two weeks we've been sharing scriptures, quotes, doctrinal sources for LDS.org and our own comments, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. No wonder he's frustrated. Then, Desertwonderer2 shares some of the counsel from Elder Uchtdorf and you accuse him of 'loving stone casting'. How does he deserve a charge like that?

No one has asked you to take their word for it, they've given you countless examples of where your version of MMP is not LDS doctrine, is not conducive to LDS teachings and is not in harmony with the teachings of the LDS church.

Now you suggest you speak for God? No, you don't. All this stuff you share, you apparently believe was revealed to you, yet these things are not in harmony with the established teachings of the CofJCofLDS. That's a sure sign to me that you are being guided and taught by a false spirit. As long as you continue to promote beliefs that contradict the pure and plain doctrines of the LDS church, you don't speak for God.

I never said I speak for God - in fact I keep inviting you all to speak to God. You can pray and ask God if I was moved upon by the Spirit to write this, in fact I challenge you to. The limited substance offered has been on repeat for how many pages now? How many of Silver's many many posts have had any substance other than condemnation?

[Silver]

How about getting off your high horse and watching the video yourself?

Where is this anger coming from? Did you have an ex girlfriend who believes in mmp?

The non mmp folks in this thread (I'll try to stop using naysayer as gardener4life had a great call to stand a little taller) have offered extremely little substance. This thread was created to discuss mmp. I already know it's a true principle. Desertwonderer2 has all the fruits of a true disciple of Jesus Christ and has joined with the loving stone casting.

The high horse comment is humorous given its a proud idiom and only one of us is name calling, condemning, telling people prayer is a waste of time, and asking others to take one's word for it over offering substance and an invitation to ponder and pray.

I am going to pray that God send you a loving acknowledgement today that you've stepped by the wayside and are indeed attacking one of His own - a true disciple of Jesus Christ after His Holy Order - someone who has learned by His Spirit and Has been permitted by Him to share what I have shared online in these spaces. Of course I don't speak for the church, but I do speak by Him and His Spirit having authority to do so as outlined in the scriptures by His will and authority. You can check that just like you can and should check anything such as a personal calling or any of the Lord's Servants' callings by prayer. Be open to either an affirmative or a negative. Or you can wait and see and be shown as Korihor was.

I don't think it's anger, it's frustration. No matter what we share, you say ''the non mmp folks in this thread have offered extremely little substance'. That's an outright falsehood. This thread is 15 pages because for two weeks we've been sharing scriptures, quotes, doctrinal sources for LDS.org and our own comments, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. No wonder he's frustrated. Then, Desertwonderer2 shares some of the counsel from Elder Uchtdorf and you accuse him of 'loving stone casting'. How does he deserve a charge like that?

No one has asked you to take their word for it, they've given you countless examples of where your version of MMP is not LDS doctrine, is not conducive to LDS teachings and is not in harmony with the teachings of the LDS church.

Now you suggest you speak for God? No, you don't. All this stuff you share, you apparently believe was revealed to you, yet these things are not in harmony with the established teachings of the CofJCofLDS. That's a sure sign to me that you are being guided and taught by a false spirit. As long as you continue to promote beliefs that contradict the pure and plain doctrines of the LDS church, you don't speak for God.

I never said I speak for God - in fact I keep inviting you all to speak to God. You can pray and ask God if I was moved upon by the Spirit to write this, in fact I challenge you to.

alaris is on a roll. One keeper after another. Heresy on parade.

[Alaris]

We were reading these verses in Sunday School yesterday and it made me think of this thread.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

We see here that even the noble and great ones were spirits. It seems the only way this theory would work is if you believe that when your mortal life is over you can defer resurrection and remain a spirit. So lets say I live into the millennium, live to the age of a tree, and then am changed, does that mean (according the the mmp theory) that I could choose to be transformed into a spirit body again and not my resurrected body? What would I be doing as a spirit for 1 thousand years? Who is creating brand-new spirit bodies that will enter the 1st estate for the next round, and who is occupying the celestial world after the millennium?

Thanks Sarah - I've said from the beginning I don't have all the answers but have shared the ones I've received to some degree. I do agree there could be some choice given at some point - accept your inheritance or choose to move on and earn a higher inheritance and better resurrection. Perhaps Adam's fruit partaking is symbolic of the fact we have our eternal reward and inheritance and can keep it or partake of an ordinance whereby we give up our bodies / inheritance to continue from grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation.

Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

As Heber C. Kimball shared, the symbolism of MMP is reflected in our world. As I partook of the sacrament on Sunday, I thought of this symbol - of eating or ingesting every 7 days and realized this is yet another symbol of MMP! I believe there is an ordinance where we are given a choice to sacrifice our eternal standing for "knowledge" as Adam did. We would then be in the spirit again. Something to think about and pray about.

"What I do not to-day, when the sun goes down, I lay down to sleep, which is typical of death; and in the morning I rise and commence my work where I left it yesterday. That course is typical of the probations we take. ...This day's work is typical of this probation, and the sleep of every night is typical of death, and rising in the morning is typical of the resurrection. Brethren, this is the course we have to take; it is a progressive work from one day to another, and from one week to another; and if we advance this year, we are so far advanced in preparation to better go through the next year." ~ Heber C. Kimball, JD:4-329

[AI2.0]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

I have told you I will be happy to admit I am wrong when a prophet - who has the sole authority to define doctrine - declares it false - or at the judgement bar - whichever happens first. If President Uchtdorf said that and it was an answer to your prayers - great! Pardon my incredulity but every single person who has chimed in on this thread and offered either scriptural or extra-scriptural evidence to refute MMP hasn't come anywhere near compelling. Otherwise, why would you be holding your breath for this answer to your prayers? What have you been praying for? My soul or being proven right?

Still, I'll be happy to address what President Uchtdorf has said. If his comments are more compelling than what's been offered here - all the "salvation" misunderstanding, "never" to be divided - you know all that's been easily addressed - I promise I will admit it for what it appears to be. However, if what he says is in line with all the other contrary evidence that has been brought up - I will address it as easily as I have.

Try to see this from my perspective. This is not a doctrine I stumbled into but one that has come from years of study and prayer that has resulted in many sacred experiences that have built my understanding line upon line. I have felt the Spirit confirm I should share this - in fact I was planning on writing a different article next but felt moved by the Spirit to jump to this. If it was the Spirit's will that I be harangued into abandoning false doctrine - see I can't even write this poppycock and finish the sentence! You have been relatively civil AI2.0, so thank you for that. However, the adversary is pulling those purse strings hard in this thread. The spirit of contention and evil has been palpable in this thread - I have felt it's muck as it is laced and interwoven into the words of contention offered by those less civil than you. The adversary is fighting this hard, and I believe I know why. The truth of MMP would naturally come out at the advent of the millennium imho - just before, during, just after. Whether the next prophet declares it publicly, that is the Lord's will. I certainly don't view my article in such light as you all have seen I am not alone in this belief - despite you all attempting to strawman me as the fall guy.

However, this thread has only reinforced my testimony of MMP. I served my mission in Texas and could see first hand how hard the adversary fights against the truth by those who have allowed him to place those flaxen cords that have become strong chains. Anti-Jehovah's Witnesses and Anti-Catholicism propaganda is nowhere near on the level of Anti-Mormon. The spirit of the adversary is laced in that undertaking as those materials carry with them that selfsame spirit that fights all of God's truth. So, those of you who have sought to protect the boundaries of the mysteries you say are impossible by the spirit of contention have only clearly demonstrated that the adversary is the one fighting this truth. Thank you for that, but please get down on your knees and distance yourselves now from that evil by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

I see you are mocking my response that this was an answer to prayers. Maybe I can explain. A while ago on this very loooong thread, I came to realize that this MMP theory may be catching hold and leading some members away from faith and repentance through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I've already told you several times (and shown you where others agreed with me) that the version of MMP you've shared negates the need for a Savior, since you 'perfect' and save yourself. I've shared a number of times that many dissenters believe in this theory as well and so it seems to diminish the teachings of the Atonement, and the belief and reliance on the Savior, which I find very serious. This isn't simply disagreeing, this theory hits at the heart of the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, his doctrine of Salvation.

I did say a prayer that the Lord would inspire our leaders to help us combat what I view as a pernicious and dangerous teaching which undermines the role of the Savior and the need for those of us who have the truth, to view this life as the one where we are being tested. If we make mistakes, we must repent and do better--not put it off for another life cycle, thinking we can do better next time. We also can't fall prey to an Anti-christ belief that we save or perfect ourselves--that is a true denial of our Redeemer. I won't deny that I felt that Elder Uchtdorf was inspired to use the words he did, because it definitely contradicts what you claim and if you are wise, you will carefully consider this.

I'm fighting this, you are right. I've tried to be civil and tried to be patient. You know that you are teaching something which is at odds with the LDS church's stand on this, I know you do, because if you thought otherwise, you'd have no trouble sharing this with your Bishop or Stake Pres. That's the test and you know it. I've also said that if you don't want to deal with the fall out of that, then don't share your MMP theory with any of them, but also, stop teaching it to LDS people and trying to influence them to believe it. That's my advice to you. You are free to believe any heretical thing you want to, as long as you keep it to yourself or admit you know it's not LDS teaching.

Regardless of your experiences on your mission, it isn't always a sign of the devil's influence when we disagree. On your mission you were contending with people who were promoting their own religions, not the CofJCofLDS. We are members of the same church and I am siding with the Doctrines and teachings of our church and you are promoting theories which are not in harmony with those teachings. There is nothing evil in what I've said to you, I stand by it and the way I've said it. Sometimes one has to be firm and speak boldly, even if it may displease others to hear it.

Lehi admonished Laman and Lemuel who complained against Nephi saying 'ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your iniquities'. 2 Ne 1:26

I consider MMP to be heretical and Anti-christ. It's been shown to you many times that it contradicts revealed scriptures. It negates the need for a Savior, it makes a mockery of the Temple ordinances of sealing families and spouses and baptism as entrance into the Celestial Kingdom. It cannot be reconciled with established doctrines of the Atonement, the Plan of Salvation, the Temple, etc. of the CofJCofLDS. Why would I not speak boldly and sharply against it?

edited to add:
I'd also like to point out that we have used 'the power of the word of God' to refute your claims--we've shared scripture with you. You have shared the writings of Heber J. Kimball and your own revelations. While they may have merit to you, they are not scripture and therefore, are not the 'word of god' and hold no 'power'.

[janderich]

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

Please provide the quote and details on how to find his statement wherein he said multiple mortal probations is a false doctrine.

[Silver]

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

Please provide the quote and details on how to find his statement wherein he said multiple mortal probations is a false doctrine.

You must be upset that alaris won the Apostate of the Year 2018 award.

[AI2.0]

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

Please provide the quote and details on how to find his statement wherein he said multiple mortal probations is a false doctrine.

I realize it's gotten long and it's hard to keep up, but if you'd read the comments offered on the last two pages of the thread, you'd know none here said that 'Pres. Uchtdorf called 'Multiple Mortal probations' a false doctrine'. But, in essence, he did just that. If you want to hear what he DID say, go to the link that Silver provided in one of his posts above.

[Silver]

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

Please provide the quote and details on how to find his statement wherein he said multiple mortal probations is a false doctrine.

I realize it's gotten long and it's hard to keep up, but if you'd read the comments offered on the last two pages of the thread, you'd know none here said that he called 'Multiple Mortal probations a false doctrine'. If you want to hear what he DID say, go to the link that Silver provided in one of his posts above.

It was actually inho who provided the link originally. Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrOQslR43fM&t=78m11s

[AI2.0]

Remember how timely Elder Ballard's talk on energy healing was? And now, just in the nick of time, just to save alaris, the Lord has inspired President Uchtdorf to clearly demonstrate that MMP is false. I hope alaris has the mental fortitude to forsake that pernicious falsehood and do the right thing.

Please provide the quote and details on how to find his statement wherein he said multiple mortal probations is a false doctrine.

I realize it's gotten long and it's hard to keep up, but if you'd read the comments offered on the last two pages of the thread, you'd know none here said that he called 'Multiple Mortal probations a false doctrine'. If you want to hear what he DID say, go to the link that Silver provided in one of his posts above.

It was actually inho who provided the link originally. Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrOQslR43fM&t=78m11s

Thanks, I was looking at the thread where you'd quoted inho, sorry about the mistake.

I appreciate inho sharing that link here.

[Alaris]

I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

I watched it too, and I gave a mental high five to Elder Uchtdorf, I felt it was an answer to prayers. He said there is one mortal probation, clearly. Alaris, he was a member of the First Presidency and an member of the Quorum of 12, do you care that you are teaching something that he would tell you is false?? There is no equivocating. If Alaris and any other of the LDS continue to believe in Multiple Mortal Probations, even after a prophet of God has spoken clearly on the subject, they would be wise to keep it to themselves and not teach it to others because it is not LDS doctrine to promote MMP.

I have told you I will be happy to admit I am wrong when a prophet - who has the sole authority to define doctrine - declares it false - or at the judgement bar - whichever happens first. If President Uchtdorf said that and it was an answer to your prayers - great! Pardon my incredulity but every single person who has chimed in on this thread and offered either scriptural or extra-scriptural evidence to refute MMP hasn't come anywhere near compelling. Otherwise, why would you be holding your breath for this answer to your prayers? What have you been praying for? My soul or being proven right?

Still, I'll be happy to address what President Uchtdorf has said. If his comments are more compelling than what's been offered here - all the "salvation" misunderstanding, "never" to be divided - you know all that's been easily addressed - I promise I will admit it for what it appears to be. However, if what he says is in line with all the other contrary evidence that has been brought up - I will address it as easily as I have.

Try to see this from my perspective. This is not a doctrine I stumbled into but one that has come from years of study and prayer that has resulted in many sacred experiences that have built my understanding line upon line. I have felt the Spirit confirm I should share this - in fact I was planning on writing a different article next but felt moved by the Spirit to jump to this. If it was the Spirit's will that I be harangued into abandoning false doctrine - see I can't even write this poppycock and finish the sentence! You have been relatively civil AI2.0, so thank you for that. However, the adversary is pulling those purse strings hard in this thread. The spirit of contention and evil has been palpable in this thread - I have felt it's muck as it is laced and interwoven into the words of contention offered by those less civil than you. The adversary is fighting this hard, and I believe I know why. The truth of MMP would naturally come out at the advent of the millennium imho - just before, during, just after. Whether the next prophet declares it publicly, that is the Lord's will. I certainly don't view my article in such light as you all have seen I am not alone in this belief - despite you all attempting to strawman me as the fall guy.

However, this thread has only reinforced my testimony of MMP. I served my mission in Texas and could see first hand how hard the adversary fights against the truth by those who have allowed him to place those flaxen cords that have become strong chains. Anti-Jehovah's Witnesses and Anti-Catholicism propaganda is nowhere near on the level of Anti-Mormon. The spirit of the adversary is laced in that undertaking as those materials carry with them that selfsame spirit that fights all of God's truth. So, those of you who have sought to protect the boundaries of the mysteries you say are impossible by the spirit of contention have only clearly demonstrated that the adversary is the one fighting this truth. Thank you for that, but please get down on your knees and distance yourselves now from that evil by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

I see you are mocking my response that this was an answer to prayers. Maybe I can explain. A while ago on this very loooong thread, I came to realize that this MMP theory may be catching hold and leading some members away from faith and repentance through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I've already told you several times (and shown you where others agreed with me) that the version of MMP you've shared negates the need for a Savior, since you 'perfect' and save yourself. I've shared a number of times that many dissenters believe in this theory as well and so it seems to diminish the teachings of the Atonement, and the belief and reliance on the Savior, which I find very serious. This isn't simply disagreeing, this theory hits at the heart of the teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, his doctrine of Salvation.

I did say a prayer that the Lord would inspire our leaders to help us combat what I view as a pernicious and dangerous teaching which undermines the role of the Savior and the need for those of us who have the truth, to view this life as the one where we are being tested. If we make mistakes, we must repent and do better--not put it off for another life cycle, thinking we can do better next time. We also can't fall prey to an Anti-christ belief that we save or perfect ourselves--that is a true denial of our Redeemer. I won't deny that I felt that Elder Uchtdorf was inspired to use the words he did, because it definitely contradicts what you claim and if you are wise, you will carefully consider this.

I'm fighting this, you are right. I've tried to be civil and tried to be patient. You know that you are teaching something which is at odds with the LDS church's stand on this, I know you do, because if you thought otherwise, you'd have no trouble sharing this with your Bishop or Stake Pres. That's the test and you know it. I've also said that if you don't want to deal with the fall out of that, then don't share your MMP theory with any of them, but also, stop teaching it to LDS people and trying to influence them to believe it. That's my advice to you. You are free to believe any heretical thing you want to, as long as you keep it to yourself or admit you know it's not LDS teaching.

Regardless of your experiences on your mission, it isn't always a sign of the devil's influence when we disagree. On your mission you were contending with people who were promoting their own religions, not the CofJCofLDS. We are members of the same church and I am siding with the Doctrines and teachings of our church and you are promoting theories which are not in harmony with those teachings. There is nothing evil in what I've said to you, I stand by it and the way I've said it. Sometimes one has to be firm and speak boldly, even if it may displease others to hear it.

Lehi admonished Laman and Lemuel who complained against Nephi saying 'ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your iniquities'. 2 Ne 1:26

I consider MMP to be heretical and Anti-christ. It's been shown to you many times that it contradicts revealed scriptures. It negates the need for a Savior, it makes a mockery of the Temple ordinances of sealing families and spouses and baptism as entrance into the Celestial Kingdom. It cannot be reconciled with established doctrines of the Atonement, the Plan of Salvation, the Temple, etc. of the CofJCofLDS. Why would I not speak boldly and sharply against it?

edited to add:
I'd also like to point out that we have used 'the power of the word of God' to refute your claims--we've shared scripture with you. You have shared the writings of Heber J. Kimball and your own revelations. While they may have merit to you, they are not scripture and therefore, are not the 'word of god' and hold no 'power'.

I realize tone is hard to convey but I was not mocking you in my remark about answers to prayers. I know you have tried to be civil and appreciate your efforts greatly. My prayers have too been focused on truth setting without enough focus on you & those in this thread individually. I have prayed for you but not enough. I don't care whether you reject mmp and am even less concerned about mmp as a doctrine as I should be about you individually. Reviling people and targeting their worthiness (again not singling you out) is way, way worse than whether mmp is so.

Standing before that judgment bar we won't need to be chided or corrected for standing in the presence of His love will reflect perfectly those times in which we were inadequately reflecting His love. This is one of our fallacies as a people and a culture... An overemphasis on correct doctrine at the expense of our neighbor unnecessarily is no excuse. Rather long suffering, patience, temperance, meekness, kindness... I bet we could restart this thread and try again and make every point we hold dear with respect and brotherly love. I don't know, maybe if we could take all the lessons in life... All those hard lessons and then be given another chance to see how much has been done to elevate our light and be tested behind the veil....