Multiple Mortal Probations Article

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

inho wrote: January 14th, 2018, 9:33 am If I choose Alma and Mormon as my guides, am I lead by blind guides?

When I think of gospel mysteries, I think of mysteries that Paul talked about. To Paul, the greatest mysteries were Christ's atonement and faith.
I was only commenting on the limitations that you placed on your leaders in your post, not them individually or collectively.

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 14th, 2018, 2:13 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 1:23 am I've addressed these scriptures countless times. You can keep reposting them but none of them exclude or exempt mmp in the slightest. We believe in exaltation and eternal life. If you think you receive that power instantly you'll be in for a surprise. Many LDS understand that exaltation occurs within the bounds of agency and understand the promised dominions, principalities, thrones, etc are a progressive inheritance going from a small capacity to a greater one (that's King Follet) until you sit enthroned in power. Many believe this happens in our resurrected body... Which idea contradicts or own concept of your inheritance being tied to the glory of your body. I get it. There's a hard stopping point where most just stop thinking, pondering and praying and just say... Well they say we have enough.

But now I'm repeating myself too. :) have a good night brother.
You brought the scripture up claiming that salvation does not = exaltation, the scripture says nothing of the sort, but there is one eternal infinite sacrifice and our salvation is dependent on the works done in this life. No works for our salvation to be done in the world to come.. No coming down as a saviour as there is only one eternal sacrifice no more mortal probation's as this is the life no more life to gain salvation.
The scripture does indeed say there is no MMP - your explanations hold no water and have failed to justify MMP, and are not inline with teachings of the prophets. Very many of the general authorities have discussed Alma 34 in detail - that contradict your attempt at justification - I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find 50 quotes. Your justification that the Church is telestrial and only dealing with temporal things is very wrong.

We gain immortality and eternal life when we are resurrected -------- the greatest gift God has to offer, you can have your version of exaltation - I will take God's greatest gift over that...-

There are only bodies celestial, terrestrial and telestrial - in the resurrection one gains one there is no further change. Yes we still progress in the next life to greater knowledge in the presence of God never separated from him (eternal life) never having another probation that is what Alma 34 teaches.
For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I'm starting to read your posts in a Darth Vader voice. You have failed me for the last time.

Kidding aside. I really need to dedicate a post on my journey of discovery of mmp. It was not an overnight journey and if I had latched my understanding to my pride before the journey began I'm confident I would have closed myself off from it. Of course I can't imagine ever condemning other saints like you lot have for their personal beliefs...not even behind the cozy warmth of anonymity. But the rules are the rules... The moment you stop seeking to expand your knowledge line upon line you begin to subject yourself to flaxen cords until they become strong chains. *shivers* That's a scary thought.

Smile today brothers and sisters. :)

Silver
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:43 am
Spaced_Out wrote: January 14th, 2018, 2:13 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 1:23 am I've addressed these scriptures countless times. You can keep reposting them but none of them exclude or exempt mmp in the slightest. We believe in exaltation and eternal life. If you think you receive that power instantly you'll be in for a surprise. Many LDS understand that exaltation occurs within the bounds of agency and understand the promised dominions, principalities, thrones, etc are a progressive inheritance going from a small capacity to a greater one (that's King Follet) until you sit enthroned in power. Many believe this happens in our resurrected body... Which idea contradicts or own concept of your inheritance being tied to the glory of your body. I get it. There's a hard stopping point where most just stop thinking, pondering and praying and just say... Well they say we have enough.

But now I'm repeating myself too. :) have a good night brother.
You brought the scripture up claiming that salvation does not = exaltation, the scripture says nothing of the sort, but there is one eternal infinite sacrifice and our salvation is dependent on the works done in this life. No works for our salvation to be done in the world to come.. No coming down as a saviour as there is only one eternal sacrifice no more mortal probation's as this is the life no more life to gain salvation.
The scripture does indeed say there is no MMP - your explanations hold no water and have failed to justify MMP, and are not inline with teachings of the prophets. Very many of the general authorities have discussed Alma 34 in detail - that contradict your attempt at justification - I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find 50 quotes. Your justification that the Church is telestrial and only dealing with temporal things is very wrong.

We gain immortality and eternal life when we are resurrected -------- the greatest gift God has to offer, you can have your version of exaltation - I will take God's greatest gift over that...-

There are only bodies celestial, terrestrial and telestrial - in the resurrection one gains one there is no further change. Yes we still progress in the next life to greater knowledge in the presence of God never separated from him (eternal life) never having another probation that is what Alma 34 teaches.
For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I'm starting to read your posts in a Darth Vader voice. You have failed me for the last time.

Kidding aside. I really need to dedicate a post on my journey of discovery of mmp. It was not an overnight journey and if I had latched my understanding to my pride before the journey began I'm confident I would have closed myself off from it. Of course I can't imagine ever condemning other saints like you lot have for their personal beliefs...not even behind the cozy warmth of anonymity. But the rules are the rules... The moment you stop seeking to expand your knowledge line upon line you begin to subject yourself to flaxen cords until they become strong chains. *shivers* That's a scary thought.

Smile today brothers and sisters. :)
Well, I'm off to my Sunday meetings. I'm thankful to belong to a Church that teaches true doctrine. I'm notably less thankful to belong to a forum that allows the false preaching of Multiple Mortal Probations by apostates to go on unchecked.

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:58 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:43 am
Spaced_Out wrote: January 14th, 2018, 2:13 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 1:23 am I've addressed these scriptures countless times. You can keep reposting them but none of them exclude or exempt mmp in the slightest. We believe in exaltation and eternal life. If you think you receive that power instantly you'll be in for a surprise. Many LDS understand that exaltation occurs within the bounds of agency and understand the promised dominions, principalities, thrones, etc are a progressive inheritance going from a small capacity to a greater one (that's King Follet) until you sit enthroned in power. Many believe this happens in our resurrected body... Which idea contradicts or own concept of your inheritance being tied to the glory of your body. I get it. There's a hard stopping point where most just stop thinking, pondering and praying and just say... Well they say we have enough.

But now I'm repeating myself too. :) have a good night brother.
You brought the scripture up claiming that salvation does not = exaltation, the scripture says nothing of the sort, but there is one eternal infinite sacrifice and our salvation is dependent on the works done in this life. No works for our salvation to be done in the world to come.. No coming down as a saviour as there is only one eternal sacrifice no more mortal probation's as this is the life no more life to gain salvation.
The scripture does indeed say there is no MMP - your explanations hold no water and have failed to justify MMP, and are not inline with teachings of the prophets. Very many of the general authorities have discussed Alma 34 in detail - that contradict your attempt at justification - I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find 50 quotes. Your justification that the Church is telestrial and only dealing with temporal things is very wrong.

We gain immortality and eternal life when we are resurrected -------- the greatest gift God has to offer, you can have your version of exaltation - I will take God's greatest gift over that...-

There are only bodies celestial, terrestrial and telestrial - in the resurrection one gains one there is no further change. Yes we still progress in the next life to greater knowledge in the presence of God never separated from him (eternal life) never having another probation that is what Alma 34 teaches.
For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I'm starting to read your posts in a Darth Vader voice. You have failed me for the last time.

Kidding aside. I really need to dedicate a post on my journey of discovery of mmp. It was not an overnight journey and if I had latched my understanding to my pride before the journey began I'm confident I would have closed myself off from it. Of course I can't imagine ever condemning other saints like you lot have for their personal beliefs...not even behind the cozy warmth of anonymity. But the rules are the rules... The moment you stop seeking to expand your knowledge line upon line you begin to subject yourself to flaxen cords until they become strong chains. *shivers* That's a scary thought.

Smile today brothers and sisters. :)
Well, I'm off to my Sunday meetings. I'm thankful to belong to a Church that teaches true doctrine. I'm notably less thankful to belong to a forum that allows the false preaching of Multiple Mortal Probations by apostates to go on unchecked.
Just be consistent good brother. Be sure to mock and name call anyone at church who sees things differently than you. ;) you know... For the investigators
Last edited by Alaris on January 14th, 2018, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Kingdom of ZION wrote: January 14th, 2018, 8:08 am
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 1:30 am
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:56 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:32 pm
The doctrine of only one person is saved per earth and that is the person who is the person doing the saving... If you can believe that you have moved beyond what any person on this earth can offer you...
Maybe ... lol ;)

I appreciate you expertly, carefully, accidentally replacing words for the purposes of deception ... that really helps your case keep it up.
The purpose of all those harsh words is to force the matter to a conclusion and bring out the real issue. Behind every doctrine there are underlying principles that support it in the mind of the person teaching the doctrine. Most of the underlying doctrine that you use to support MMP has been squeezed out. And we have now got to the grand finale - one person saved per world and that is the person who is doing the saving.

I have to challenge things so no investigator or newly baptised person can have their faith destroyed. No person reading this thread can now be deceived - the truth is out there in plainness and my job is done.
Spaced Out, you just do not get it... here let me point it out to you, so those who are following might!

Billions of males and females are SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

Millions of males sons and ten times as many female daughters are exalted or re-exalted by the ordinances of exaltation, and are also SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

One male Son of Yah is sanctified, eternally exalted, receives His kingdom and inheritance, receives the markings of Godhood in His God sired immortal body and the power (priesthood) to lay that body down and pick it up again, where he then becomes an Adam for His Son's in future creations. And from this world many many female Daughters of G_d are sanctified, eternally exalted, receives Their kingdom and inheritance, and G_d sired immoral body (in the Millennial world to come).

Is it important that you understand and embrace this doctrine here? NO! Hence that is why the Almighty hid this in the Mysteries of Godliness! This is the End Times, and those things that were hidden from the foundations of the earth are about to come forth. Wait but a little while, and you will see Him coming in the clouds of heaven as prophesied!
I can only assume this is why I felt impressed to write and share an article on mmp. In fact I believe it.

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Kingdom of ZION
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:31 am
Kingdom of ZION wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:27 am
Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 8:54 am Announcer: Welcome to the Out There Awards Show. In the category of Best Writer of a Mass of Confusion, the winner is Kingdom of ZION!
I will take that as high praise, coming from you! ;)
Oh, please. Are you going to be another alarisherem, just making stuff up and getting offended when we don't bow down to your superior (not) knowledge?

I know the truth and its true source. It ain't you or alarisherem.
I am not offended?!?!!? Though I might be it you were to try following me rather than the Messiah!

I did not comment on what is being discussed. I did not even comment on any of your posts. So what problem are you having today?

Spaced_Out
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:43 am For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
You fail to comprehend the basics of the doctrine of salvation. Those entering the Celestial are one, co-inheritors with God, all become one with the Father and Son. "Glory of the celestial is one." One type of resurrection for all those entering the celestial kingdom.
There are many type entering the telestiral from King David to mass murderers like Mussolini and Hitler - they are not all the same in the telestrial...

For one that claims mysteries and knowledge!!! it is a continual round of posting nonsense in some vain attempt at causing confusion.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:43 am For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I'm starting to read your posts in a Darth Vader voice. You have failed me for the last time.
Your posts are indeed from one who has gone to the dark side - you make wild claims that I have failed to so show true doctrine -it is you have failed to accept the truth and give no coherent response to my posts. In fact you are unable to come up with any repose to most of my posts.

Seriously there are many different glories in the telestrial like the stars differ in brightness that is you great knowledge that nullifies my post....... or any of the doctrine surrounding mortal probation or eternal life that all the righteous gain eternal life at the resurrection - never separated from God again...

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 14th, 2018, 2:48 pm
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:43 am For one star differeth from another star in glory....
1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
I'm starting to read your posts in a Darth Vader voice. You have failed me for the last time.
Your posts are indeed from one who has gone to the dark side - you make wild claims that I have failed to so show true doctrine -it is you have failed to accept the truth and give no coherent response to my posts. In fact you are unable to come up with any repose to most of my posts.

Seriously there are many different glories in the telestrial like the stars differ in brightness that is you great knowledge that nullifies my post....... or any of the doctrine surrounding mortal probation or eternal life that all the righteous gain eternal life at the resurrection - never separated from God again...
*Darth Breathing* You have failed to accept the truth and give no coherent response to my posts. LOL! :)

You're right. I'm on the dark side with all this invitation to prayer and consideration. You're on the light side with these kind, gentle, remarks bout how my posts are incoherent. Thank you for kindly bringing me back to the light side brother.

None of the other MMP believers in this thread seem to have difficulty with my coherency. I'll write up a post when I have time about how I came to believe in MMP, but it all started with humility, prayer, and a hunger and thirst to receive.
2 Nephi 28:27 Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!
28 And in fine, wo unto all those who tremble, and are angry because of the truth of God! For behold, he that is built upon the rock receiveth it with gladness; and he that is built upon a sandy foundation trembleth lest he shall fall.
29 Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
Wow another layer unveiled here in the scriptures leading up to 2 Nephi 28:30. In verse 28 we see another truth - the truth of God makes some tremble and angry because of the sandy foundation that trembles and causes fear. So, to continue this Star War motif - fear, anger, hate, suffering - well I don't know about hate, but I'm sure not feeling the love in this thread lol. :)

You all act like I fell off a horse on one hand and then call it dangerous doctrine on the other. If I fell off a horse then why are there others who came to believe this by following the same model? It is not a coincidence that not a single naysayer in this thread has said there's no need to pray over this.
2 Nephi 32:8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
Don't take my word for it. Pray about it in humble sincerity.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 6:51 pm Don't take my word for it. Pray about it in humble sincerity.
I told you I planted the seed as in Alma 32 and pray and meditate on it day and nigh watering it and dunging it, responding to all your post which you have no explanation for., but the seed keeps dying therefore I know with a perfect knowledge that it is a bad seed. I have received many revelations relating to the resurrection and atonement of Christ - what you post is all false doctrine and not in line with teachings of the church...

All those that support you are all known anit-LDS and apostate or on the verge of such... Who do not preach the doctrines of the kingdom....
Last edited by Spaced_Out on January 14th, 2018, 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silver
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

Now I see. His speculation has always seemed off so I didn't pay much attention, but alarisherem has been posting apostate nonsense for quite a while. Not sure if he started down that path before or after his excommunication. Even though he claims he rejoined the church, he complains about his leaders. I guess they're just not as wise as he is.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Re: The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...
Postby alaris » 04 Sep 2016, 01:34

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
jdtech wrote:
KOZ - I have some questions about this doctrine that you are promoting.

You are quoting Parley P Pratt, where he indicates that there are 4 estates:
1 - premortal
2 - earth life
3 - post earth (spirit world)
4 - resurrection, with a physical body

KoZ: Yes PPP proposed four Estates. I was quoting the definition of the first two to show it was not my own design. I do not except PPP definition of the third and fourth Estates.

But, in your earlier quotes, there are 8 estates...and from what I can understand from your descriptions all but the last 2 of these "estates" is another earth life. Is this a correct view? How do you reconcile the idea of the 4th estate resurrection as described by P.P. Pratt with this doctrine of 8 estates?

KoZ: Actually, it is the First Estate is in a Millennial World from the world before this world. The Second Estate is here. The Third Estate is the Millennium to come. The Fourth Estate is the next three Creations from this world. The Fifth Estate is the Creation after that [6th Creation]. The Sixth Estate is the Creation after that world [7th Creation]. The Seventh Estate is the Creation after that world [8th Creation], only the Great Jehovah rest from all His labors and does not have to come down.

Fourth Estate Beings are not resurrect but inherit that same glory... they are 'Just Men made Perfect'.

As for how many times are we born of women physically with a veil...
Once as a Second Estate.
Three times as a Baby or first world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Junior or second world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Senior or third world Fourth Estate.
Two times as a Fifth Estate or Messiah.
Twelve Times, once from each tribe.

The basic doctrine of the LDS church correlates with your quotes from P.P. Pratt in that after this life we are resurrected (with a physical body) and will take our place in a kingdom of glory. This contradicts the idea of multiple "estates" on the (an) earth that you are promoting. I also don't see how once you are resurrected, you would somehow separate the spirit from the body, only to be born into another mortal body. In other words, the two ideas are contradictory...

KoZ: You are not Resurrected but rather defer in hopes of a more perfected resurrection.

Can you please explain this contradiction?

KoZ: It is a false belief that to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, that it is a resurrection verses a birth or raising from the tomb. What of those who fall at the end when the adversary is loosed... they become sons of Perdition? No... they just remain Terrestrial and go on to sire the Telestial bodies... their resurrection if you wish to call it that [it is a rebirth...]
Kingdom of ZION wrote:
1st Estate - Pre-existence - Likened unto outer darkness, world without glory - Millennial World from the Creation before [1st Creation]
2nd Estate - Mortal life [once only] - Likened unto a Telestial World - [2ns Creation]
3rd Estate - Millennium - Likened unto a Terrestrial World - [still the same world - 2nd Creation]
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [3rd Creation] - Baby or Young Man, millions
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [4rd Creation] - Junior or Middle Age Man, 144,000
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [5rd Creation] - Senior or Old Man, 4-5
5th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - [6rd Creation] - Yehoshua
6th Estate - Terrestrial World [come down once in 4-5 Creations - [7th through 10th or 11th Creations] - Adam
7th Estate - Celestial World [enter to no more come out] - No more to go down - [12 - 13 through 37 - 38 Creations] - Great Jehovah
8th Estate - Celestial [the center of the galaxy] - countless Creation - Elohim
Shalom
Thank you for posting this KOZ. Through my own study and prayer I have believed that Premortal Life was a terrestrial state. I would like to start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one. I believe the terrestrial reality was key to understanding the rebellion.

To comment at the subject of this thread, we LDS believe that we could only progress so much in our Premortal Estate--that we had to come here first. If that's true how did Michael progress so much as to be given charge over an entire telestial world without ever having even lived in one?

D&C teaches that we and God are all independent spheres and always will be. I told my 11 year old son today to pretend he was God and wanted to help us be God's someday. I asked him would he just hand over universes to his children and say, "Here you go!"

"No."

"How would you train your children to be Gods then?"

"I would start small," he said.

Boom. Children understand the truth because it is simple.

We can not be given dominion over a world until we master smaller dominions. Telestial dominions. If you can't run a small company can you run a world?

We have to learn to not just be perfect but to be perfect masters of dominions.

Peter shook Adam's hand. He did not say, "I have not yet attained a body." Peter had a body. I believe Michael did as well.

Silver
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

So with his various heretical theories and his previous excommunication, we can now understand why alaris is so resistant to approaching his priesthood line of authority. They would counsel him, of course, to abandon those apostate ideas. As seen by his illogical responses on this forum, alaris may not give heed to their counsel, and then, boom, excommunication #2.

I feel sorry for his son.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by simpleton »

And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away......

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm Now I see. His speculation has always seemed off so I didn't pay much attention, but alarisherem has been posting apostate nonsense for quite a while. Not sure if he started down that path before or after his excommunication. Even though he claims he rejoined the church, he complains about his leaders. I guess they're just not as wise as he is.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Re: The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...
Postby alaris » 04 Sep 2016, 01:34

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
jdtech wrote:
KOZ - I have some questions about this doctrine that you are promoting.

You are quoting Parley P Pratt, where he indicates that there are 4 estates:
1 - premortal
2 - earth life
3 - post earth (spirit world)
4 - resurrection, with a physical body

KoZ: Yes PPP proposed four Estates. I was quoting the definition of the first two to show it was not my own design. I do not except PPP definition of the third and fourth Estates.

But, in your earlier quotes, there are 8 estates...and from what I can understand from your descriptions all but the last 2 of these "estates" is another earth life. Is this a correct view? How do you reconcile the idea of the 4th estate resurrection as described by P.P. Pratt with this doctrine of 8 estates?

KoZ: Actually, it is the First Estate is in a Millennial World from the world before this world. The Second Estate is here. The Third Estate is the Millennium to come. The Fourth Estate is the next three Creations from this world. The Fifth Estate is the Creation after that [6th Creation]. The Sixth Estate is the Creation after that world [7th Creation]. The Seventh Estate is the Creation after that world [8th Creation], only the Great Jehovah rest from all His labors and does not have to come down.

Fourth Estate Beings are not resurrect but inherit that same glory... they are 'Just Men made Perfect'.

As for how many times are we born of women physically with a veil...
Once as a Second Estate.
Three times as a Baby or first world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Junior or second world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Senior or third world Fourth Estate.
Two times as a Fifth Estate or Messiah.
Twelve Times, once from each tribe.

The basic doctrine of the LDS church correlates with your quotes from P.P. Pratt in that after this life we are resurrected (with a physical body) and will take our place in a kingdom of glory. This contradicts the idea of multiple "estates" on the (an) earth that you are promoting. I also don't see how once you are resurrected, you would somehow separate the spirit from the body, only to be born into another mortal body. In other words, the two ideas are contradictory...

KoZ: You are not Resurrected but rather defer in hopes of a more perfected resurrection.

Can you please explain this contradiction?

KoZ: It is a false belief that to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, that it is a resurrection verses a birth or raising from the tomb. What of those who fall at the end when the adversary is loosed... they become sons of Perdition? No... they just remain Terrestrial and go on to sire the Telestial bodies... their resurrection if you wish to call it that [it is a rebirth...]
Kingdom of ZION wrote:
1st Estate - Pre-existence - Likened unto outer darkness, world without glory - Millennial World from the Creation before [1st Creation]
2nd Estate - Mortal life [once only] - Likened unto a Telestial World - [2ns Creation]
3rd Estate - Millennium - Likened unto a Terrestrial World - [still the same world - 2nd Creation]
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [3rd Creation] - Baby or Young Man, millions
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [4rd Creation] - Junior or Middle Age Man, 144,000
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [5rd Creation] - Senior or Old Man, 4-5
5th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - [6rd Creation] - Yehoshua
6th Estate - Terrestrial World [come down once in 4-5 Creations - [7th through 10th or 11th Creations] - Adam
7th Estate - Celestial World [enter to no more come out] - No more to go down - [12 - 13 through 37 - 38 Creations] - Great Jehovah
8th Estate - Celestial [the center of the galaxy] - countless Creation - Elohim
Shalom
Thank you for posting this KOZ. Through my own study and prayer I have believed that Premortal Life was a terrestrial state. I would like to start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one. I believe the terrestrial reality was key to understanding the rebellion.

To comment at the subject of this thread, we LDS believe that we could only progress so much in our Premortal Estate--that we had to come here first. If that's true how did Michael progress so much as to be given charge over an entire telestial world without ever having even lived in one?

D&C teaches that we and God are all independent spheres and always will be. I told my 11 year old son today to pretend he was God and wanted to help us be God's someday. I asked him would he just hand over universes to his children and say, "Here you go!"

"No."

"How would you train your children to be Gods then?"

"I would start small," he said.

Boom. Children understand the truth because it is simple.

We can not be given dominion over a world until we master smaller dominions. Telestial dominions. If you can't run a small company can you run a world?

We have to learn to not just be perfect but to be perfect masters of dominions.

Peter shook Adam's hand. He did not say, "I have not yet attained a body." Peter had a body. I believe Michael did as well.
May I suggest a hobby of some sort? Painting. Family time. Scripture study! However, this path you are walking down is in the wrong direction Silver. I know you feel that knot at the pit of your stomach as you read this. False accusations, reviling, evil speaking. Character assassination is not a tactic aligned with the Spirit of the Lord but the spirit of the devil: "I can't win on substance therefore I'll defame your character."

You are the one who should review these actions with your own priesthood leaders. Though you are sending blessings my way, I wish they would come after a different manner for your sake.
Matthew 5: 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:48 pm
Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm Now I see. His speculation has always seemed off so I didn't pay much attention, but alarisherem has been posting apostate nonsense for quite a while. Not sure if he started down that path before or after his excommunication. Even though he claims he rejoined the church, he complains about his leaders. I guess they're just not as wise as he is.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Re: The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...
Postby alaris » 04 Sep 2016, 01:34

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
jdtech wrote:
KOZ - I have some questions about this doctrine that you are promoting.

You are quoting Parley P Pratt, where he indicates that there are 4 estates:
1 - premortal
2 - earth life
3 - post earth (spirit world)
4 - resurrection, with a physical body

KoZ: Yes PPP proposed four Estates. I was quoting the definition of the first two to show it was not my own design. I do not except PPP definition of the third and fourth Estates.

But, in your earlier quotes, there are 8 estates...and from what I can understand from your descriptions all but the last 2 of these "estates" is another earth life. Is this a correct view? How do you reconcile the idea of the 4th estate resurrection as described by P.P. Pratt with this doctrine of 8 estates?

KoZ: Actually, it is the First Estate is in a Millennial World from the world before this world. The Second Estate is here. The Third Estate is the Millennium to come. The Fourth Estate is the next three Creations from this world. The Fifth Estate is the Creation after that [6th Creation]. The Sixth Estate is the Creation after that world [7th Creation]. The Seventh Estate is the Creation after that world [8th Creation], only the Great Jehovah rest from all His labors and does not have to come down.

Fourth Estate Beings are not resurrect but inherit that same glory... they are 'Just Men made Perfect'.

As for how many times are we born of women physically with a veil...
Once as a Second Estate.
Three times as a Baby or first world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Junior or second world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Senior or third world Fourth Estate.
Two times as a Fifth Estate or Messiah.
Twelve Times, once from each tribe.

The basic doctrine of the LDS church correlates with your quotes from P.P. Pratt in that after this life we are resurrected (with a physical body) and will take our place in a kingdom of glory. This contradicts the idea of multiple "estates" on the (an) earth that you are promoting. I also don't see how once you are resurrected, you would somehow separate the spirit from the body, only to be born into another mortal body. In other words, the two ideas are contradictory...

KoZ: You are not Resurrected but rather defer in hopes of a more perfected resurrection.

Can you please explain this contradiction?

KoZ: It is a false belief that to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, that it is a resurrection verses a birth or raising from the tomb. What of those who fall at the end when the adversary is loosed... they become sons of Perdition? No... they just remain Terrestrial and go on to sire the Telestial bodies... their resurrection if you wish to call it that [it is a rebirth...]
Kingdom of ZION wrote:
1st Estate - Pre-existence - Likened unto outer darkness, world without glory - Millennial World from the Creation before [1st Creation]
2nd Estate - Mortal life [once only] - Likened unto a Telestial World - [2ns Creation]
3rd Estate - Millennium - Likened unto a Terrestrial World - [still the same world - 2nd Creation]
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [3rd Creation] - Baby or Young Man, millions
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [4rd Creation] - Junior or Middle Age Man, 144,000
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [5rd Creation] - Senior or Old Man, 4-5
5th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - [6rd Creation] - Yehoshua
6th Estate - Terrestrial World [come down once in 4-5 Creations - [7th through 10th or 11th Creations] - Adam
7th Estate - Celestial World [enter to no more come out] - No more to go down - [12 - 13 through 37 - 38 Creations] - Great Jehovah
8th Estate - Celestial [the center of the galaxy] - countless Creation - Elohim
Shalom
Thank you for posting this KOZ. Through my own study and prayer I have believed that Premortal Life was a terrestrial state. I would like to start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one. I believe the terrestrial reality was key to understanding the rebellion.

To comment at the subject of this thread, we LDS believe that we could only progress so much in our Premortal Estate--that we had to come here first. If that's true how did Michael progress so much as to be given charge over an entire telestial world without ever having even lived in one?

D&C teaches that we and God are all independent spheres and always will be. I told my 11 year old son today to pretend he was God and wanted to help us be God's someday. I asked him would he just hand over universes to his children and say, "Here you go!"

"No."

"How would you train your children to be Gods then?"

"I would start small," he said.

Boom. Children understand the truth because it is simple.

We can not be given dominion over a world until we master smaller dominions. Telestial dominions. If you can't run a small company can you run a world?

We have to learn to not just be perfect but to be perfect masters of dominions.

Peter shook Adam's hand. He did not say, "I have not yet attained a body." Peter had a body. I believe Michael did as well.
May I suggest a hobby of some sort? Painting. Family time. Scripture study! However, this path you are walking down is in the wrong direction Silver. I know you feel that knot at the pit of your stomach as you read this. False accusations, reviling, evil speaking. Character assassination is not a tactic aligned with the Spirit of the Lord but the spirit of the devil: "I can't win on substance therefore I'll defame your character."

You are the one who should review these actions with your own priesthood leaders. Though you are sending blessings my way, I wish they would come after a different manner for your sake.
Matthew 5: 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
My attitude for you, alaris, has changed overnight. I pity you. I hope you can pull out of the nosedive you appear to be stuck in. Its up to you. You know the degree to which you're dabbling in heresy. Therefore, it is up to you to change.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 5:27 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:48 pm
Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm Now I see. His speculation has always seemed off so I didn't pay much attention, but alarisherem has been posting apostate nonsense for quite a while. Not sure if he started down that path before or after his excommunication. Even though he claims he rejoined the church, he complains about his leaders. I guess they're just not as wise as he is.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Re: The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...
Postby alaris » 04 Sep 2016, 01:34

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
jdtech wrote:
KOZ - I have some questions about this doctrine that you are promoting.

You are quoting Parley P Pratt, where he indicates that there are 4 estates:
1 - premortal
2 - earth life
3 - post earth (spirit world)
4 - resurrection, with a physical body

KoZ: Yes PPP proposed four Estates. I was quoting the definition of the first two to show it was not my own design. I do not except PPP definition of the third and fourth Estates.

But, in your earlier quotes, there are 8 estates...and from what I can understand from your descriptions all but the last 2 of these "estates" is another earth life. Is this a correct view? How do you reconcile the idea of the 4th estate resurrection as described by P.P. Pratt with this doctrine of 8 estates?

KoZ: Actually, it is the First Estate is in a Millennial World from the world before this world. The Second Estate is here. The Third Estate is the Millennium to come. The Fourth Estate is the next three Creations from this world. The Fifth Estate is the Creation after that [6th Creation]. The Sixth Estate is the Creation after that world [7th Creation]. The Seventh Estate is the Creation after that world [8th Creation], only the Great Jehovah rest from all His labors and does not have to come down.

Fourth Estate Beings are not resurrect but inherit that same glory... they are 'Just Men made Perfect'.

As for how many times are we born of women physically with a veil...
Once as a Second Estate.
Three times as a Baby or first world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Junior or second world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Senior or third world Fourth Estate.
Two times as a Fifth Estate or Messiah.
Twelve Times, once from each tribe.

The basic doctrine of the LDS church correlates with your quotes from P.P. Pratt in that after this life we are resurrected (with a physical body) and will take our place in a kingdom of glory. This contradicts the idea of multiple "estates" on the (an) earth that you are promoting. I also don't see how once you are resurrected, you would somehow separate the spirit from the body, only to be born into another mortal body. In other words, the two ideas are contradictory...

KoZ: You are not Resurrected but rather defer in hopes of a more perfected resurrection.

Can you please explain this contradiction?

KoZ: It is a false belief that to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, that it is a resurrection verses a birth or raising from the tomb. What of those who fall at the end when the adversary is loosed... they become sons of Perdition? No... they just remain Terrestrial and go on to sire the Telestial bodies... their resurrection if you wish to call it that [it is a rebirth...]
Kingdom of ZION wrote:
1st Estate - Pre-existence - Likened unto outer darkness, world without glory - Millennial World from the Creation before [1st Creation]
2nd Estate - Mortal life [once only] - Likened unto a Telestial World - [2ns Creation]
3rd Estate - Millennium - Likened unto a Terrestrial World - [still the same world - 2nd Creation]
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [3rd Creation] - Baby or Young Man, millions
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [4rd Creation] - Junior or Middle Age Man, 144,000
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [5rd Creation] - Senior or Old Man, 4-5
5th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - [6rd Creation] - Yehoshua
6th Estate - Terrestrial World [come down once in 4-5 Creations - [7th through 10th or 11th Creations] - Adam
7th Estate - Celestial World [enter to no more come out] - No more to go down - [12 - 13 through 37 - 38 Creations] - Great Jehovah
8th Estate - Celestial [the center of the galaxy] - countless Creation - Elohim
Shalom
Thank you for posting this KOZ. Through my own study and prayer I have believed that Premortal Life was a terrestrial state. I would like to start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one. I believe the terrestrial reality was key to understanding the rebellion.

To comment at the subject of this thread, we LDS believe that we could only progress so much in our Premortal Estate--that we had to come here first. If that's true how did Michael progress so much as to be given charge over an entire telestial world without ever having even lived in one?

D&C teaches that we and God are all independent spheres and always will be. I told my 11 year old son today to pretend he was God and wanted to help us be God's someday. I asked him would he just hand over universes to his children and say, "Here you go!"

"No."

"How would you train your children to be Gods then?"

"I would start small," he said.

Boom. Children understand the truth because it is simple.

We can not be given dominion over a world until we master smaller dominions. Telestial dominions. If you can't run a small company can you run a world?

We have to learn to not just be perfect but to be perfect masters of dominions.

Peter shook Adam's hand. He did not say, "I have not yet attained a body." Peter had a body. I believe Michael did as well.
May I suggest a hobby of some sort? Painting. Family time. Scripture study! However, this path you are walking down is in the wrong direction Silver. I know you feel that knot at the pit of your stomach as you read this. False accusations, reviling, evil speaking. Character assassination is not a tactic aligned with the Spirit of the Lord but the spirit of the devil: "I can't win on substance therefore I'll defame your character."

You are the one who should review these actions with your own priesthood leaders. Though you are sending blessings my way, I wish they would come after a different manner for your sake.
Matthew 5: 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
My attitude for you, alaris, has changed overnight. I pity you. I hope you can pull out of the nosedive you appear to be stuck in. Its up to you. You know the degree to which you're dabbling in heresy. Therefore, it is up to you to change.
You're projecting big time. The only person you're damaging is yourself.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:05 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 5:27 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:48 pm
Silver wrote: January 14th, 2018, 7:56 pm Now I see. His speculation has always seemed off so I didn't pay much attention, but alarisherem has been posting apostate nonsense for quite a while. Not sure if he started down that path before or after his excommunication. Even though he claims he rejoined the church, he complains about his leaders. I guess they're just not as wise as he is.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18511&p=732699#p732589

Re: The Doctrine of Eternal Lives...
Postby alaris » 04 Sep 2016, 01:34

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
jdtech wrote:
KOZ - I have some questions about this doctrine that you are promoting.

You are quoting Parley P Pratt, where he indicates that there are 4 estates:
1 - premortal
2 - earth life
3 - post earth (spirit world)
4 - resurrection, with a physical body

KoZ: Yes PPP proposed four Estates. I was quoting the definition of the first two to show it was not my own design. I do not except PPP definition of the third and fourth Estates.

But, in your earlier quotes, there are 8 estates...and from what I can understand from your descriptions all but the last 2 of these "estates" is another earth life. Is this a correct view? How do you reconcile the idea of the 4th estate resurrection as described by P.P. Pratt with this doctrine of 8 estates?

KoZ: Actually, it is the First Estate is in a Millennial World from the world before this world. The Second Estate is here. The Third Estate is the Millennium to come. The Fourth Estate is the next three Creations from this world. The Fifth Estate is the Creation after that [6th Creation]. The Sixth Estate is the Creation after that world [7th Creation]. The Seventh Estate is the Creation after that world [8th Creation], only the Great Jehovah rest from all His labors and does not have to come down.

Fourth Estate Beings are not resurrect but inherit that same glory... they are 'Just Men made Perfect'.

As for how many times are we born of women physically with a veil...
Once as a Second Estate.
Three times as a Baby or first world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Junior or second world Fourth Estate.
Three times as a Senior or third world Fourth Estate.
Two times as a Fifth Estate or Messiah.
Twelve Times, once from each tribe.

The basic doctrine of the LDS church correlates with your quotes from P.P. Pratt in that after this life we are resurrected (with a physical body) and will take our place in a kingdom of glory. This contradicts the idea of multiple "estates" on the (an) earth that you are promoting. I also don't see how once you are resurrected, you would somehow separate the spirit from the body, only to be born into another mortal body. In other words, the two ideas are contradictory...

KoZ: You are not Resurrected but rather defer in hopes of a more perfected resurrection.

Can you please explain this contradiction?

KoZ: It is a false belief that to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection, that it is a resurrection verses a birth or raising from the tomb. What of those who fall at the end when the adversary is loosed... they become sons of Perdition? No... they just remain Terrestrial and go on to sire the Telestial bodies... their resurrection if you wish to call it that [it is a rebirth...]
Kingdom of ZION wrote:
1st Estate - Pre-existence - Likened unto outer darkness, world without glory - Millennial World from the Creation before [1st Creation]
2nd Estate - Mortal life [once only] - Likened unto a Telestial World - [2ns Creation]
3rd Estate - Millennium - Likened unto a Terrestrial World - [still the same world - 2nd Creation]
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [3rd Creation] - Baby or Young Man, millions
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [4rd Creation] - Junior or Middle Age Man, 144,000
4th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - Likened unto a Celestial World - [5rd Creation] - Senior or Old Man, 4-5
5th Estate - Telestial World [come down three times - [6rd Creation] - Yehoshua
6th Estate - Terrestrial World [come down once in 4-5 Creations - [7th through 10th or 11th Creations] - Adam
7th Estate - Celestial World [enter to no more come out] - No more to go down - [12 - 13 through 37 - 38 Creations] - Great Jehovah
8th Estate - Celestial [the center of the galaxy] - countless Creation - Elohim
Shalom
Thank you for posting this KOZ. Through my own study and prayer I have believed that Premortal Life was a terrestrial state. I would like to start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one. I believe the terrestrial reality was key to understanding the rebellion.

To comment at the subject of this thread, we LDS believe that we could only progress so much in our Premortal Estate--that we had to come here first. If that's true how did Michael progress so much as to be given charge over an entire telestial world without ever having even lived in one?

D&C teaches that we and God are all independent spheres and always will be. I told my 11 year old son today to pretend he was God and wanted to help us be God's someday. I asked him would he just hand over universes to his children and say, "Here you go!"

"No."

"How would you train your children to be Gods then?"

"I would start small," he said.

Boom. Children understand the truth because it is simple.

We can not be given dominion over a world until we master smaller dominions. Telestial dominions. If you can't run a small company can you run a world?

We have to learn to not just be perfect but to be perfect masters of dominions.

Peter shook Adam's hand. He did not say, "I have not yet attained a body." Peter had a body. I believe Michael did as well.
May I suggest a hobby of some sort? Painting. Family time. Scripture study! However, this path you are walking down is in the wrong direction Silver. I know you feel that knot at the pit of your stomach as you read this. False accusations, reviling, evil speaking. Character assassination is not a tactic aligned with the Spirit of the Lord but the spirit of the devil: "I can't win on substance therefore I'll defame your character."

You are the one who should review these actions with your own priesthood leaders. Though you are sending blessings my way, I wish they would come after a different manner for your sake.
Matthew 5: 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
My attitude for you, alaris, has changed overnight. I pity you. I hope you can pull out of the nosedive you appear to be stuck in. Its up to you. You know the degree to which you're dabbling in heresy. Therefore, it is up to you to change.
You're projecting big time. The only person you're damaging is yourself.
I'm sorry that you can't believe me and I'm sure I'm partly at fault for that. However, this I know: MMP is false. So I have tremendous pity for you.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:52 am
alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:05 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 5:27 am
alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:48 pm

May I suggest a hobby of some sort? Painting. Family time. Scripture study! However, this path you are walking down is in the wrong direction Silver. I know you feel that knot at the pit of your stomach as you read this. False accusations, reviling, evil speaking. Character assassination is not a tactic aligned with the Spirit of the Lord but the spirit of the devil: "I can't win on substance therefore I'll defame your character."

You are the one who should review these actions with your own priesthood leaders. Though you are sending blessings my way, I wish they would come after a different manner for your sake.

My attitude for you, alaris, has changed overnight. I pity you. I hope you can pull out of the nosedive you appear to be stuck in. Its up to you. You know the degree to which you're dabbling in heresy. Therefore, it is up to you to change.
You're projecting big time. The only person you're damaging is yourself.
I'm sorry that you can't believe me and I'm sure I'm partly at fault for that. However, this I know: MMP is false. So I have tremendous pity for you.
Hey hey! Recognition is the first step brother. And, I do appreciate your charity Silver. Thank you for your projected pity.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:20 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:52 am
alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:05 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 5:27 am

My attitude for you, alaris, has changed overnight. I pity you. I hope you can pull out of the nosedive you appear to be stuck in. Its up to you. You know the degree to which you're dabbling in heresy. Therefore, it is up to you to change.
You're projecting big time. The only person you're damaging is yourself.
I'm sorry that you can't believe me and I'm sure I'm partly at fault for that. However, this I know: MMP is false. So I have tremendous pity for you.
Hey hey! Recognition is the first step brother. And, I do appreciate your charity Silver. Thank you for your projected pity.
The pity for you is real, which makes it 180 degrees diametrically opposed to MMP, which is false.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:25 am
alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:20 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:52 am
alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:05 am

You're projecting big time. The only person you're damaging is yourself.
I'm sorry that you can't believe me and I'm sure I'm partly at fault for that. However, this I know: MMP is false. So I have tremendous pity for you.
Hey hey! Recognition is the first step brother. And, I do appreciate your charity Silver. Thank you for your projected pity.
The pity for you is real, which makes it 180 degrees diametrically opposed to MMP, which is false.
MMP is true. Now your turn to say it's false. ;)

Pray about it Silver. Ask God if he can show you the truth of MMP. You can even ask God if Alaris is off his rocker or not. I certainly don't have any issues with my priesthood leadership, or the leadership in the church. I am free to seek the mysteries and share them as permitted by the Spirit. That same Spirit I've drawn close to guides to the same truths that are available to all - the same Spirit that guides the Apostles and President Nelson. Are you excited for Tuesday? I know I am.

However, the Spirit will be unable to draw close to you while you foster this evil spirit of contention and venomous animosity. There is something terribly amiss in your life--perhaps something unresolved. I feel quite strongly about this now as you are attacking my personal worthiness - my worthiness that I have worked out with the Savior and with the church. I feel the Spirit burn within me now as I write this. Do not be afraid good brother. The moment you decide to confront this head on and ask for the atoning blood of Jesus Christ to save you from this pit of despair, immediately will his saving grace being to take effect upon you.
Mosiah 4:2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
Like bullying, which only fills a void momentarily by making the bullied feel in control and superior for a fleeting moment as the bullied becomes the bully - you are shoveling into a void here. Making Alaris a heretic does not make you square with God. I know you feel some level of shame already and begin to see it reflected in your comments. The only shame I hope you feel leads you to righting yourself here, and the only apology I hope you give is in that light. Godspeed brother.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 10:27 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:25 am
alaris wrote: January 15th, 2018, 9:20 am
Silver wrote: January 15th, 2018, 8:52 am

I'm sorry that you can't believe me and I'm sure I'm partly at fault for that. However, this I know: MMP is false. So I have tremendous pity for you.
Hey hey! Recognition is the first step brother. And, I do appreciate your charity Silver. Thank you for your projected pity.
The pity for you is real, which makes it 180 degrees diametrically opposed to MMP, which is false.
MMP is true. Now your turn to say it's false. ;)

Pray about it Silver. Ask God if he can show you the truth of MMP. You can even ask God if Alaris is off his rocker or not. I certainly don't have any issues with my priesthood leadership, or the leadership in the church. I am free to seek the mysteries and share them as permitted by the Spirit. That same Spirit I've drawn close to guides to the same truths that are available to all - the same Spirit that guides the Apostles and President Nelson. Are you excited for Tuesday? I know I am.

However, the Spirit will be unable to draw close to you while you foster this evil spirit of contention and venomous animosity. There is something terribly amiss in your life--perhaps something unresolved. I feel quite strongly about this now as you are attacking my personal worthiness - my worthiness that I have worked out with the Savior and with the church. I feel the Spirit burn within me now as I write this. Do not be afraid good brother. The moment you decide to confront this head on and ask for the atoning blood of Jesus Christ to save you from this pit of despair, immediately will his saving grace being to take effect upon you.
Mosiah 4:2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
Like bullying, which only fills a void momentarily by making the bullied feel in control and superior for a fleeting moment as the bullied becomes the bully - you are shoveling into a void here. Making Alaris a heretic does not make you square with God. I know you feel some level of shame already and begin to see it reflected in your comments. The only shame I hope you feel leads you to righting yourself here, and the only apology I hope you give is in that light. Godspeed brother.
I don't feel a bit of shame. Now who's projecting? I simply feel sorry for you and your desperate attempts to find converts. You are ensnared by Satan himself. MMP is wrong. I have prayed to know the truth and it ain't MMP. So you can stop with the sappy language. You're wrong. You are absolutely wrong. For clarity then, the only thing that has changed on my side is that I'm not going to write to entertain others on the forum. Poking fun at your ridiculous heresy obviously had no effect on you. The chains are too tight around you. So no more games.

DesertWonderer2
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Posts: 1164

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by DesertWonderer2 »

I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

DesertWonderer2 wrote: January 15th, 2018, 10:53 am I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?
I'll go with Elder Uchtdorf for the win!!!

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

I've been reading The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles every day since the October 2017 General Conference. That inspired document also makes it quite clear that we get one life on earth, one mortal experience, and one life to come in eternity.

No man, like alaris, is so blind as he who will not see.

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

DesertWonderer2 wrote: January 15th, 2018, 10:53 am I just listened to Elder Uchtdorf’s talk to the YSA from last night. He very specifically stated that there is ONE mortal probation. So who do you belive: KOZ, Alarias, Julie Rowe, The Remnant OR an ORDAINED apostle of Jesus Christ?

It’s all quite simple isn’t it?
It is! How about a quote so we can discuss civilly?

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