Multiple Mortal Probations Article

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 3:03 pm The promise of the ordinances of salvation are in full force when out of this world - and we go strait to exaltation....) passing by the angles and gods to our exaltation...

Exaltation is also defined as a fullness of joy..... D&C138
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
It feels odd having such a humorous interaction over such a deep, beautiful doctrine but yes keep it up Spaced_Out. I especially like the posts with fewer misstatements and more scriptures that you post that support mmp as shown above. I'll bold the parts you are unable to explain while rejecting mmp.

How do you explain it not in this resurrection then the next?

Do we inherit thrones dominions principalities etc all at once?

All of this is stated as shall, a nice future tense word that in no way excludes mmp.

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mirkwood
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

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Wow...and I thought Denver was good at wresting scripture...

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AI2.0
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by AI2.0 »

My responses in blue;
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 6:06 pm
HappyCamper8 wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:16 am
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 12:05 am
HappyCamper8 wrote: January 11th, 2018, 10:08 am

I'm pretty sure they are relating D&C 129 to the shaking of hands. And if they didn't shake hands, how did they know who it really was? Without going into it too much online.

btw, I had this question in the past and heard of a possible solution which made me think, eh, there's probably an explanation to it so haven't worried too much about it.
Funny to see the selective literal interpretation. It says never but that's not a real handshake.
Alaris, I'm not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by "It says never but that's not a real handshake." Thanks.
Apologies HappyCamper8. It's been a super busy week. I've done my best to stay engaged in this thread, but that has meant more misspelled words than usual and shorter posts. Here is what I mean.

Naysayer: "The resurrection is the spirit and the body reuniting never to be divided! It's literal! It means forever ever foreverness!They say that because that is what we preach. From the Bible dictionary: "The resurrection consists in the uniting of the spirit body with the body of flesh and bones, never to be divided." I don't know why you think that's to be interpreted literally. As long as I've been a member of this church, that is how it has been presented. It's doctrine. Sure Adam was forever never to die until he did,Per the Book of Mormon, Lehi's teachings, Adam would have lived forever if he'd remained in the garden. He did become subject to death when he partook of the fruit and his days were prolonged in mortality, so he would have time to repent before he died.. There's nothing to misunderstand with this. It's also doctrine. and sure endless torment was a deliberate word play to hide the meat from the milk drinkers, but this time .. this time it says never! You're not reading it right. I'll post it 10 more times. etc."I'm not sure what you are getting at with that. It is the Lord who is explaining 'endless torment'. It IS endless and will be endless for those who are in hell and will not repent. The Lord is not lying to you.

Naysayer: *read this in Pat Gray's genius voice* "Well Lucifer carried an apple sure, and Peter, James, and John shook hands sure ... but that's just figurative!"It is figurative because of LDS doctrine, which is plain and clear. Lucifer was denied a body. That means per LDS doctrine he doesn't have a body. Do I have to find an official statement for this, because I'm certain that any member of the church who attend and reads scripture will tell you that Lucifer was cast out, along with 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven and they lost their chance for a body. Therefore, when the actor who portrays Lucifer picks the fruit and hands it to Eve, it's understood that he still does not have a physical body. Because that's LDS doctrine. And the same goes for Peter, James and John. When they shake hands, we are to understand that they don't have physical bodies, because they haven't been born yet. They shake hands because it's actors portraying something to teach us. They are human and so they have physical bodies, but we are supposed to think of this as in the time of Adam and Eve, when there were no other children of Heavenly Father in physical form--since they hadn't been born yet. That's LDS doctrine.

Sorry that felt like mocking. It's been a long week and I try to draw the line at sarcasm. Like I said, I've still a ways to go myself on my progression.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that of course there are symbols and of course there are things that are literal. But trying to judge which is which and throwing up a hard wall is about the dumbest thing you can do to yourself. Humbly submit to the Father as a child submits to a parent. I've referred to Mosiah 3:19 enough in this thread, I should actually quote it here. Perhaps this will reinforce the amazing lesson I've learned witnessing the... *thinking of a civil word*... base.. attacks in this thread:If you are going to try to claim that Lucifer and Peter, James and John have physical bodies, you are going to be told you are wrong, because of what LDS doctrine teaches. So, you say the LDS church is wrong to teach this, but I say I believe the church and will believe what they teach, not what you teach.
Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
Submissive, meek, humble, patient (I'm actually doing a little better here all sarcasm aside), full of love (need some improvement here). Still this formula is exactly what is needed to counter the effects of Alma 12. I mean, is there any level of self awareness here. *Pat Gray voice again* Well gee ... I know Jesus says love thy neighbor but Alaris is a sick, lying troll whose membership should be revoked. I mean maybe if it were me truly lost I'd throw in some love there....

Well, this is a great lesson for me as well. I love you guys. Truly. Pray. Just ... pray. Ask for guidance - be nonspecific - and listen. The Lord loves you all and wants you all to succeed on the path to salvation, whether that's one body or many.
I don't know how to be more clear on this. I'm LDS, I believe the LDS church teaches true doctrine. I believe Lucifer did not have a body, because the church says he doesn't:

Elder Bednar: "The great principle of happiness consists in having a body. The devil has no body, and herein is his punishment. "

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/06/thin ... e?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the- ... n?lang=eng

Since the devil and his premortal angels have no physical body of flesh and bones, they often seek to possess the bodies of mortal beings. There are many such instances recorded in scripture (Matt. 9:32; 12:22; Mark 1:24; 5:7; Luke 8:30; Acts 19:15; see also Mosiah 3:6).


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/devil

I think most people realize that since Adam and Eve are in the Garden, and have not had children yet, Peter James and John are in spirit form. Spirit form does consist of refined matter, though.

If you want to call me a 'naysayer' or accuse me of rejecting 'more', I disagree. I'm reiterating LDS doctrine and I'm rejecting what you are sharing which is not in harmony with revealed LDS doctrine and scripture.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

AI2.0 wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm If you want to call me a 'naysayer' or accuse me of rejecting 'more', I disagree. I'm reiterating LDS doctrine and I'm rejecting what you are sharing which is not in harmony with revealed LDS doctrine and scripture.[/color]
Just came back from church guess what the SS lesson was on the preexistence and the first and second estate. Satan never kept the first estate as a spirit in the preexistence and was cast out never to get a body. It is very clear in the scriptures we only have one first estate and one second estate.
In the temple the interaction between Adam and Peter James and John - Adam is figurative for all mankind - those actual events did not take place - it is even mentioned as such - theses guys teach any false doctrine make multiple straw man augments in an attempt to prove there dark teachings...
They teach Satan has PH and power therefore he must of had a body - not true Jesus as a Spirit had PH and power and created the earth including the body of Adam fashioned after his spiritual body. Making false links to prove false doctrine.

Abraham 3:6 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.
27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.-
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Moses 4:3
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 3:26 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 3:03 pm The promise of the ordinances of salvation are in full force when out of this world - and we go strait to exaltation....) passing by the angles and gods to our exaltation...

Exaltation is also defined as a fullness of joy..... D&C138
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
It feels odd having such a humorous interaction over such a deep, beautiful doctrine but yes keep it up Spaced_Out. I especially like the posts with fewer misstatements and more scriptures that you post that support mmp as shown above. I'll bold the parts you are unable to explain while rejecting mmp.

How do you explain it not in this resurrection then the next? You should be embarrassed posting this, The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just and if one does not receive that then the second resurrection of the wicked at the end of the millennium and they are not able to progress and enter into the celestial -- it is very simple ---- there is only one resurrection for each individual.

Do we inherit thrones dominions principalities etc all at once? Simple if we are faithful we inherit all the father has and become one with him and the son- Oath and covenant of the PH. Resurrected to celestial clothed as Jesus is clothed at his second coming - the first resurrection, You teach multiple levels of resurrection - sad to say those the get the second resurrection are those that are cast out...

All of this is stated as shall, a nice future tense word that in no way excludes mmp. A single future world - not multiple...... not MMP. raised and exalted at the Resurrection..
Comment in red and blue.

For someone who claims to know the mysteries of the kingdom - you should be very embarrassed posting those comments showing lack of even very elementary aspects of the gospel. God greatests gift to man is ........ Eternal life -- you definition of saved and exalted is false and deceptive...

Doctrine and Covenants 14:7
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.


The righteous are raised through the resurrection and gain eternal life
Mosiah 15:23-25
23 They are raised to dwell with God who has redeemed them; thus they have eternal life through Christ, who has broken the bands of death.

What are the requirements for eternal life - see if you can figure it out without a detailed explanation..
1 John 5:13
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Keep the commandments in this life we gain eternal life - live with God forever and ever....
Alma 7:16
16 And whosoever doeth this, and keepeth the commandments of God from thenceforth, the same will remember that I say unto him, yea, he will remember that I have said unto him, he shall have eternal life, according to the testimony of the Holy Spirit, which testifieth in me.

2 Nephi 31:20
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a clove of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.


16 ¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the ommandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Eternal life is gained this life - the greatest of all gifts - you teaching on MMP be dammed to hell - it is antiChrist and a lie..
Doctrine and Covenants 20:26-27
26 Not only those who believed after he came in the meridian of time, in the flesh, but all those from the beginning, even as many as were before he came, who believed in the words of the holy prophets, who spake as they were inspired by the gift of the Holy Ghost, who truly testified of him in all things, should have eternal life,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Mosiah 26:20
20 Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have aeternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep.


John 3:15
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Eternal life is linked to the first resurrection of the just

Mosiah 18:9
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

AI2.0 wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm My responses in blue;
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 6:06 pm
HappyCamper8 wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:16 am
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 12:05 am

Funny to see the selective literal interpretation. It says never but that's not a real handshake.
Alaris, I'm not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by "It says never but that's not a real handshake." Thanks.
Apologies HappyCamper8. It's been a super busy week. I've done my best to stay engaged in this thread, but that has meant more misspelled words than usual and shorter posts. Here is what I mean.

Naysayer: "The resurrection is the spirit and the body reuniting never to be divided! It's literal! It means forever ever foreverness!They say that because that is what we preach. From the Bible dictionary: "The resurrection consists in the uniting of the spirit body with the body of flesh and bones, never to be divided." I don't know why you think that's to be interpreted literally. As long as I've been a member of this church, that is how it has been presented. It's doctrine. Sure Adam was forever never to die until he did,Per the Book of Mormon, Lehi's teachings, Adam would have lived forever if he'd remained in the garden. He did become subject to death when he partook of the fruit and his days were prolonged in mortality, so he would have time to repent before he died.. There's nothing to misunderstand with this. It's also doctrine. and sure endless torment was a deliberate word play to hide the meat from the milk drinkers, but this time .. this time it says never! You're not reading it right. I'll post it 10 more times. etc."I'm not sure what you are getting at with that. It is the Lord who is explaining 'endless torment'. It IS endless and will be endless for those who are in hell and will not repent. The Lord is not lying to you.

Naysayer: *read this in Pat Gray's genius voice* "Well Lucifer carried an apple sure, and Peter, James, and John shook hands sure ... but that's just figurative!"It is figurative because of LDS doctrine, which is plain and clear. Lucifer was denied a body. That means per LDS doctrine he doesn't have a body. Do I have to find an official statement for this, because I'm certain that any member of the church who attend and reads scripture will tell you that Lucifer was cast out, along with 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven and they lost their chance for a body. Therefore, when the actor who portrays Lucifer picks the fruit and hands it to Eve, it's understood that he still does not have a physical body. Because that's LDS doctrine. And the same goes for Peter, James and John. When they shake hands, we are to understand that they don't have physical bodies, because they haven't been born yet. They shake hands because it's actors portraying something to teach us. They are human and so they have physical bodies, but we are supposed to think of this as in the time of Adam and Eve, when there were no other children of Heavenly Father in physical form--since they hadn't been born yet. That's LDS doctrine.

Sorry that felt like mocking. It's been a long week and I try to draw the line at sarcasm. Like I said, I've still a ways to go myself on my progression.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that of course there are symbols and of course there are things that are literal. But trying to judge which is which and throwing up a hard wall is about the dumbest thing you can do to yourself. Humbly submit to the Father as a child submits to a parent. I've referred to Mosiah 3:19 enough in this thread, I should actually quote it here. Perhaps this will reinforce the amazing lesson I've learned witnessing the... *thinking of a civil word*... base.. attacks in this thread:If you are going to try to claim that Lucifer and Peter, James and John have physical bodies, you are going to be told you are wrong, because of what LDS doctrine teaches. So, you say the LDS church is wrong to teach this, but I say I believe the church and will believe what they teach, not what you teach.
Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
Submissive, meek, humble, patient (I'm actually doing a little better here all sarcasm aside), full of love (need some improvement here). Still this formula is exactly what is needed to counter the effects of Alma 12. I mean, is there any level of self awareness here. *Pat Gray voice again* Well gee ... I know Jesus says love thy neighbor but Alaris is a sick, lying troll whose membership should be revoked. I mean maybe if it were me truly lost I'd throw in some love there....

Well, this is a great lesson for me as well. I love you guys. Truly. Pray. Just ... pray. Ask for guidance - be nonspecific - and listen. The Lord loves you all and wants you all to succeed on the path to salvation, whether that's one body or many.
I don't know how to be more clear on this. I'm LDS, I believe the LDS church teaches true doctrine. I believe Lucifer did not have a body, because the church says he doesn't:

Elder Bednar: "The great principle of happiness consists in having a body. The devil has no body, and herein is his punishment. "

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/06/thin ... e?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the- ... n?lang=eng

Since the devil and his premortal angels have no physical body of flesh and bones, they often seek to possess the bodies of mortal beings. There are many such instances recorded in scripture (Matt. 9:32; 12:22; Mark 1:24; 5:7; Luke 8:30; Acts 19:15; see also Mosiah 3:6).


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/devil

I think most people realize that since Adam and Eve are in the Garden, and have not had children yet, Peter James and John are in spirit form. Spirit form does consist of refined matter, though.

If you want to call me a 'naysayer' or accuse me of rejecting 'more', I disagree. I'm reiterating LDS doctrine and I'm rejecting what you are sharing which is not in harmony with revealed LDS doctrine and scripture.
There is evidence that the devil and Lucifer are two separate beings. There is a great thread on LDSFF about the evidence. Of course this idea is a lot easier to grasp with mmp and iterations of eternal rounds... Well not even that necessarily... I don't want to derail my own thread. :)

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 7:39 pm
There is evidence that the devil and Lucifer are two separate beings. There is a great thread on LDSFF about the evidence. Of course this idea is a lot easier to grasp with mmp and iterations of eternal rounds... Well not even that necessarily... I don't want to derail my own thread. :)
One pretence leads to another Many Multiple Pretences (MMP)..

One and the same.................. Depth of deception has no bounds.........

D&C 76:26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—

Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old aserpent, which is the bDevil, and Satan, and cbound him a thousand years,

JST, Revelation 12:8
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.
Last edited by Spaced_Out on January 13th, 2018, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

Lucifer is only used twice in scripture. Both refer to his previous state as "son of the morning" hence his authority and PH, both mention how he fell and was cast out and became the devil and Satan one and the same....

Isa12 & 3 Nephi 24 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! I
D&C 76:26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.

Spaced_Out
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

mirkwood wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:05 pm Wow...and I thought Denver was good at wresting scripture...
One lie leads to another he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a bottomless pit, getting more desperate and latching onto more bizarre things.

I am still giving him a little chance to come to his senses - will see how he responds to my last few posts then I will go full nuclear and no more nice guy..

Silver
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm
mirkwood wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:05 pm Wow...and I thought Denver was good at wresting scripture...
One lie leads to another he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a bottomless pit, getting more desperate and latching onto more bizarre things.

I am still giving him a little chance to come to his senses - will see how he responds to my last few posts then I will go full nuclear and no more nice guy..
alarisherem is going to kick against the pricks no matter what we write here. He can control his choices (or maybe he's already bound by the chains of Satan too tightly to help himself), but he can't control the consequences of his choices.

I still find it quite disgusting that alarisherem insists that he's right simply because we opposed him and his heresy. Can you imagine any situation where Father Lehi would have intended his great words in 2 Nephi 2:11 to be used that way? Airheaded, at best.

alarisherem: I declare unto you that snakes make honey not honey bees.
us: no, actually, that's incorrect.
alarisherem: you opposed me so that proves snakes make honey.

Fortunately, we have had the Gift of the Holy Ghost among us for many years. We know the truth of the Plan of Salvation. So when we hear a heretical comment we know immediately it is untrue. The 3rd member of the Godhead is a true companion and comfort.

So what's next for alarisherem? Denver Snuffer, Part 2?

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 8:09 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 7:39 pm
There is evidence that the devil and Lucifer are two separate beings. There is a great thread on LDSFF about the evidence. Of course this idea is a lot easier to grasp with mmp and iterations of eternal rounds... Well not even that necessarily... I don't want to derail my own thread. :)
One pretence leads to another Many Multiple Pretences (MMP)..

One and the same.................. Depth of deception has no bounds.........

D&C 76:26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him—he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ—

Revelation 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old aserpent, which is the bDevil, and Satan, and cbound him a thousand years,

JST, Revelation 12:8
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth; and his angels were cast out with him.
You want to discuss Lucifer / Devil in the Lucifer thread, I'd be happy to. I like how you bold and color these scriptures over and over again and the selfsame scriptures. These scriptures / ideas are all discussed in that thread.

Devil = Satan. Great. We agree. So do the scriptures.

Lucifer may be a different person. Verse 28 in D&C 76 reads to me like it could be referring to a new person; it would have made a lot more sense to tie those two names together, like, "And then we saw Lucifer who became the Devil" - anyway. I'm not sold on the idea they are separate, but feel free to chime in on and we can see where the spirit of opposition takes you next. This might actually be a great way to uncover truth!

viewtopic.php?p=760280

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:13 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm
mirkwood wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:05 pm Wow...and I thought Denver was good at wresting scripture...
One lie leads to another he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a bottomless pit, getting more desperate and latching onto more bizarre things.

I am still giving him a little chance to come to his senses - will see how he responds to my last few posts then I will go full nuclear and no more nice guy..
alarisherem is going to kick against the pricks no matter what we write here. He can control his choices (or maybe he's already bound by the chains of Satan too tightly to help himself), but he can't control the consequences of his choices.

I still find it quite disgusting that alarisherem insists that he's right simply because we opposed him and his heresy. Can you imagine any situation where Father Lehi would have intended his great words in 2 Nephi 2:11 to be used that way? Airheaded, at best.

alarisherem: I believe in MMP and here's why.
us: Heresy! Lies! Condemnation! Shame! Name calling! Actual lies to confuse and mock!
alarisherem: I still believe in MMP and here's why
us: Scriptures with bold and underlined text and sometimes more condemnation, lies, mockery etc.
alarisherem: Wow, you actually aren't in control of youserlves any more are you? You know you quoted some great scriptures that show MMP. Here's how and why I believe MMP.
us: Go see your Bishop! We'll insult you, condemn you, mock you, lie about what you just said that any reader can scroll up and see (lol)
alarisherem: Wow Alma 12:9-10 shows what happens when you say "We have enough" - we are actually watching this unfold.
us: Go see your Bishop! We'll insult you, condemn you, mock you, lie about what you just said that any reader can scroll up and see (lol) We underline the same scriptures, this time with more exclamation marks!
etc.

Fortunately, we have had the Gift of the Holy Ghost among us for many years. We know the truth of the Plan of Salvation. So when we hear a heretical comment we know immediately it is untrue. The 3rd member of the Godhead is a true companion and comfort.

So what's next for alarisherem? Denver Snuffer, Part 2?
Hahaha you're endless entertainment Silver. I truly appreciate it. Donald Trump would give you a high five for sticking to your condescending nick name! ;) Nice work.

Also, I truly appreciate the Denver Snuffer "compliment." I mean on one hand you .. hold on, let me look up the appropriate term ... ridicule... my beliefs and attempt to marginalize me as the lone heretic, and then on the other you say they're at least legitimate enough to get a snuffer-like following. Except - oops - Alaris isn't the only one who believes in MMP! Lizzy60 chimed in and we used good old ad hominem to marginalize her. Joseph Smith and Heber C Kimball and Brigham Young and Eliza R Snow - all of them believed it and, well I do seem to remember some comments about ignoring these "long dead" people hahaha! Let's see how you are doing with these rules you are following:
Saul Alinksy's Rules For Radicals (The book is dedicated to Lucifer)
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people.
…The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.
…the fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
…the fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
…the sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
…the seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
…the eighth rule: Keep the pressure on.
…the ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
…The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
…The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
…The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it
Hey hey not bad! I intended to bold only the rules that apply, but it looks like you're doing very well on nearly all of them. Nice work! Twelve doesn't really apply since you've only succeeded in showing that you have a lot more in common with Saul Alinksy than you do the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I put one of the rules in red that may apply, however. I'm sure most people have gotten the point that you and your high fivers are all suffering from Alma 12:10
Alma 12:10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
PS I fixed your mock conversation between "us" and alarisherem in the quoted text in blue-green. Your nickname is actually quite funny. :) I wonder how self aware you are of these chains by which you are bound Silver. Do you know and just can't help it? Or do you read that list from Rules for Radicals and have no idea that you are trapped by the same spirit by which Saul Alinsky was trapped?

MMP is real.

2 Kings 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
Last edited by Alaris on January 13th, 2018, 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 10:53 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:13 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm
mirkwood wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:05 pm Wow...and I thought Denver was good at wresting scripture...
One lie leads to another he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a bottomless pit, getting more desperate and latching onto more bizarre things.

I am still giving him a little chance to come to his senses - will see how he responds to my last few posts then I will go full nuclear and no more nice guy..
alarisherem is going to kick against the pricks no matter what we write here. He can control his choices (or maybe he's already bound by the chains of Satan too tightly to help himself), but he can't control the consequences of his choices.

I still find it quite disgusting that alarisherem insists that he's right simply because we opposed him and his heresy. Can you imagine any situation where Father Lehi would have intended his great words in 2 Nephi 2:11 to be used that way? Airheaded, at best.

alarisherem: I declare unto you that snakes make honey not honey bees.
us: no, actually, that's incorrect.
alarisherem: you opposed me so that proves snakes make honey.

Fortunately, we have had the Gift of the Holy Ghost among us for many years. We know the truth of the Plan of Salvation. So when we hear a heretical comment we know immediately it is untrue. The 3rd member of the Godhead is a true companion and comfort.

So what's next for alarisherem? Denver Snuffer, Part 2?
Hahaha you're endless entertainment Silver. I truly appreciate it. Donald Trump would give you a high five for sticking to your condescending nick name! ;) Nice work.

Also, I truly appreciate the Denver Snuffer compliment. I mean on one hand you .. hold on, let me look up the appropriate term ... ridicule my beliefs and then on the other you say they're at least legitimate enough to get a snuffer like following. Except - oops - Alaris isn't the only one who believes in MMP! Lizzy60 chimed in and we used good old ad hominem to marginalize her. Let's see how you are doing with these rules you are following:
Saul Alinksy's Rules For Radicals (The book is dedicated to Lucifer)
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people.
…The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.
…the fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
…the fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
…the sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
…the seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
…the eighth rule: Keep the pressure on.
…the ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
…The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
…The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
…The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it
Hey hey not bad! I intended to bold only the rules that apply, but it looks like you're doing very well on nearly all of them. Nice work! Twelve doesn't really apply since you've only succeeded in showing that you have a lot more in common with Saul Alinksy than you do the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I put one of the rules in red that may apply, however. I'm sure most people have gotten the point that you and your high fivers are all suffering from Alma 12:10
Alma 12:10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
My, what a tender little flower alarisherem has turned out to be. Don't stomp on his his fantasy, his pretended special doctrine, or he'll be hurt. When will he learn that his attempts at guilt trips won't work? Maybe never.

lizzy60...bwahahaha. Yes, a definite authority on swords that burn and what not.

For those keeping score, alarisherem digs himself ever deeper into heresy. It's going to take a serious talking with his bishop to save himself.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:01 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 10:53 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:13 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 8:29 pm
One lie leads to another he is digging himself deeper and deeper into a bottomless pit, getting more desperate and latching onto more bizarre things.

I am still giving him a little chance to come to his senses - will see how he responds to my last few posts then I will go full nuclear and no more nice guy..
alarisherem is going to kick against the pricks no matter what we write here. He can control his choices (or maybe he's already bound by the chains of Satan too tightly to help himself), but he can't control the consequences of his choices.

I still find it quite disgusting that alarisherem insists that he's right simply because we opposed him and his heresy. Can you imagine any situation where Father Lehi would have intended his great words in 2 Nephi 2:11 to be used that way? Airheaded, at best.

alarisherem: I declare unto you that snakes make honey not honey bees.
us: no, actually, that's incorrect.
alarisherem: you opposed me so that proves snakes make honey.

Fortunately, we have had the Gift of the Holy Ghost among us for many years. We know the truth of the Plan of Salvation. So when we hear a heretical comment we know immediately it is untrue. The 3rd member of the Godhead is a true companion and comfort.

So what's next for alarisherem? Denver Snuffer, Part 2?
Hahaha you're endless entertainment Silver. I truly appreciate it. Donald Trump would give you a high five for sticking to your condescending nick name! ;) Nice work.

Also, I truly appreciate the Denver Snuffer compliment. I mean on one hand you .. hold on, let me look up the appropriate term ... ridicule my beliefs and then on the other you say they're at least legitimate enough to get a snuffer like following. Except - oops - Alaris isn't the only one who believes in MMP! Lizzy60 chimed in and we used good old ad hominem to marginalize her. Let's see how you are doing with these rules you are following:
Saul Alinksy's Rules For Radicals (The book is dedicated to Lucifer)
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people.
…The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.
…the fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
…the fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
…the sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
…the seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
…the eighth rule: Keep the pressure on.
…the ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
…The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
…The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
…The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it
Hey hey not bad! I intended to bold only the rules that apply, but it looks like you're doing very well on nearly all of them. Nice work! Twelve doesn't really apply since you've only succeeded in showing that you have a lot more in common with Saul Alinksy than you do the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I put one of the rules in red that may apply, however. I'm sure most people have gotten the point that you and your high fivers are all suffering from Alma 12:10
Alma 12:10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
My, what a tender little flower alarisherem has turned out to be. Don't stomp on his his fantasy, his pretended special doctrine, or he'll be hurt. When will he learn that his attempts at guilt trips won't work? Maybe never.

lizzy60...bwahahaha. Yes, a definite authority on swords that burn and what not.

For those keeping score, alarisherem digs himself ever deeper into heresy. It's going to take a serious talking with his bishop to save himself.
I added a bit to my last post you may want to check out. Bishops don't save Silver. I don't know if you ..knew that .. or not.

Anyway - I love how you use the word "fantasy" and are the one pretending that Alaris is hurt - and then working yourself up into a frenetic glee over my pretend hurt! So Christlike of you! I called this out pages ago - the naysayer high fivers will keep up the insults and "keep the pressure on" as Saul Alinksy calls it until Alaris loses his cool and then we'll dance and rant and take glee in our victory .... we won! Well, if he never gives in, we'll at least pretend to win if he ever comes close to stooping to this level.

I know tone is hard to convey, but I actually find you quite entertaining Silver - always have. You couldn't ask for a better illustration of Alma 12:10-11.

I know you recognize this. You know you are stuck in this behavior, but just remember - the moment you pray and confess this behavior to the Lord, immediately will the atonement begin to work in your soul. Rise above brother!
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:01 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 10:53 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:13 pm

alarisherem is going to kick against the pricks no matter what we write here. He can control his choices (or maybe he's already bound by the chains of Satan too tightly to help himself), but he can't control the consequences of his choices.

I still find it quite disgusting that alarisherem insists that he's right simply because we opposed him and his heresy. Can you imagine any situation where Father Lehi would have intended his great words in 2 Nephi 2:11 to be used that way? Airheaded, at best.

alarisherem: I declare unto you that snakes make honey not honey bees.
us: no, actually, that's incorrect.
alarisherem: you opposed me so that proves snakes make honey.

Fortunately, we have had the Gift of the Holy Ghost among us for many years. We know the truth of the Plan of Salvation. So when we hear a heretical comment we know immediately it is untrue. The 3rd member of the Godhead is a true companion and comfort.

So what's next for alarisherem? Denver Snuffer, Part 2?
Hahaha you're endless entertainment Silver. I truly appreciate it. Donald Trump would give you a high five for sticking to your condescending nick name! ;) Nice work.

Also, I truly appreciate the Denver Snuffer compliment. I mean on one hand you .. hold on, let me look up the appropriate term ... ridicule my beliefs and then on the other you say they're at least legitimate enough to get a snuffer like following. Except - oops - Alaris isn't the only one who believes in MMP! Lizzy60 chimed in and we used good old ad hominem to marginalize her. Let's see how you are doing with these rules you are following:
Saul Alinksy's Rules For Radicals (The book is dedicated to Lucifer)
Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people.
…The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.
…the fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.
…the fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.
…the sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.
…the seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.
…the eighth rule: Keep the pressure on.
…the ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.
The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.
…The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside.
…The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.
…The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it
Hey hey not bad! I intended to bold only the rules that apply, but it looks like you're doing very well on nearly all of them. Nice work! Twelve doesn't really apply since you've only succeeded in showing that you have a lot more in common with Saul Alinksy than you do the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I put one of the rules in red that may apply, however. I'm sure most people have gotten the point that you and your high fivers are all suffering from Alma 12:10
Alma 12:10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
My, what a tender little flower alarisherem has turned out to be. Don't stomp on his his fantasy, his pretended special doctrine, or he'll be hurt. When will he learn that his attempts at guilt trips won't work? Maybe never.

lizzy60...bwahahaha. Yes, a definite authority on swords that burn and what not.

For those keeping score, alarisherem digs himself ever deeper into heresy. It's going to take a serious talking with his bishop to save himself.
I added a bit to my last post you may want to check out. Bishops don't save Silver. I don't know if you ..knew that .. or not.

Anyway - I love how you use the word "fantasy" and are the one pretending that Alaris is hurt - and then working yourself up into a frenetic glee over my pretend hurt! So Christlike of you! I called this out pages ago - the naysayer high fivers will keep up the insults and "keep the pressure on" as Saul Alinksy calls it until Alaris loses his cool and then we'll dance and rant and take glee in our victory .... we won! Well, if he never gives in, we'll at least pretend to win if he ever comes close to stooping to this level.

I know tone is hard to convey, but I actually find you quite entertaining Silver - always have. You couldn't ask for a better illustration of Alma 12:10-11.

I know you recognize this. You know you are stuck in this behavior, but just remember - the moment you pray and confess this behavior to the Lord, immediately will the atonement begin to work in your soul. Rise above brother!
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)
It's very sad that you don't recognize what a pitiful shell of a heretic you've become as demonstrated by the desperate grasping on to each person who has drifted through this thread and offered a bit of support to you. Then you go off to other threads and talk (with LDS Anarchist, no less...do you want me to share the private message you sent me about him?) about how bored you've become with the naysayers here. (But you're careful to go back and edit those comments out of LDSA's thread, aren't you?) So, you flaming hypocritical heretic, I know exactly how empty your false doctrine is. Then you trot out Alinsky like it has some sort of relevance. Doesn't work. I know the truth. So as long as my Bible says that God works through prophets and as long as you teach the opposite of what the prophets teach, you're a heretic.

User avatar
Alaris
Captain of 144,000
Posts: 7354
Location: Present before the general assembly
Contact:

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:31 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:01 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 10:53 pm

Hahaha you're endless entertainment Silver. I truly appreciate it. Donald Trump would give you a high five for sticking to your condescending nick name! ;) Nice work.

Also, I truly appreciate the Denver Snuffer compliment. I mean on one hand you .. hold on, let me look up the appropriate term ... ridicule my beliefs and then on the other you say they're at least legitimate enough to get a snuffer like following. Except - oops - Alaris isn't the only one who believes in MMP! Lizzy60 chimed in and we used good old ad hominem to marginalize her. Let's see how you are doing with these rules you are following:



Hey hey not bad! I intended to bold only the rules that apply, but it looks like you're doing very well on nearly all of them. Nice work! Twelve doesn't really apply since you've only succeeded in showing that you have a lot more in common with Saul Alinksy than you do the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I put one of the rules in red that may apply, however. I'm sure most people have gotten the point that you and your high fivers are all suffering from Alma 12:10

My, what a tender little flower alarisherem has turned out to be. Don't stomp on his his fantasy, his pretended special doctrine, or he'll be hurt. When will he learn that his attempts at guilt trips won't work? Maybe never.

lizzy60...bwahahaha. Yes, a definite authority on swords that burn and what not.

For those keeping score, alarisherem digs himself ever deeper into heresy. It's going to take a serious talking with his bishop to save himself.
I added a bit to my last post you may want to check out. Bishops don't save Silver. I don't know if you ..knew that .. or not.

Anyway - I love how you use the word "fantasy" and are the one pretending that Alaris is hurt - and then working yourself up into a frenetic glee over my pretend hurt! So Christlike of you! I called this out pages ago - the naysayer high fivers will keep up the insults and "keep the pressure on" as Saul Alinksy calls it until Alaris loses his cool and then we'll dance and rant and take glee in our victory .... we won! Well, if he never gives in, we'll at least pretend to win if he ever comes close to stooping to this level.

I know tone is hard to convey, but I actually find you quite entertaining Silver - always have. You couldn't ask for a better illustration of Alma 12:10-11.

I know you recognize this. You know you are stuck in this behavior, but just remember - the moment you pray and confess this behavior to the Lord, immediately will the atonement begin to work in your soul. Rise above brother!
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)
It's very sad that you don't recognize what a pitiful shell of a heretic you've become as demonstrated by the desperate grasping on to each person who has drifted through this thread and offered a bit of support to you. Then you go off to other threads and talk (with LDS Anarchist, no less...do you want me to share the private message you sent me about him?) about how bored you've become with the naysayers here. (But you're careful to go back and edit those comments out of LDSA's thread, aren't you?) So, you flaming hypocritical heretic, I know exactly how empty your false doctrine is. Then you trot out Alinsky like it has some sort of relevance. Doesn't work. I know the truth. So as long as my Bible says that God works through prophets and as long as you teach the opposite of what the prophets teach, you're a heretic.
Well I supposed if I were a troll I'd take a joy in getting under your skin. I don't. I have spoken hard truths. You have called me names and made threats and have offered little substance toward the discussion otherwise. I am bored with the naysayers. I take no joy in seeing you spin out of control, though it does offer a measure of clarity as the spirit of the devil takes little interest in fighting falsehoods. So thank you for that - again. Have a good night Silver. Don't forget to say your prayers before you go to bed.
1 Nephi 16:2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 12:08 am
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:31 pm
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:17 pm
Silver wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:01 pm

My, what a tender little flower alarisherem has turned out to be. Don't stomp on his his fantasy, his pretended special doctrine, or he'll be hurt. When will he learn that his attempts at guilt trips won't work? Maybe never.

lizzy60...bwahahaha. Yes, a definite authority on swords that burn and what not.

For those keeping score, alarisherem digs himself ever deeper into heresy. It's going to take a serious talking with his bishop to save himself.
I added a bit to my last post you may want to check out. Bishops don't save Silver. I don't know if you ..knew that .. or not.

Anyway - I love how you use the word "fantasy" and are the one pretending that Alaris is hurt - and then working yourself up into a frenetic glee over my pretend hurt! So Christlike of you! I called this out pages ago - the naysayer high fivers will keep up the insults and "keep the pressure on" as Saul Alinksy calls it until Alaris loses his cool and then we'll dance and rant and take glee in our victory .... we won! Well, if he never gives in, we'll at least pretend to win if he ever comes close to stooping to this level.

I know tone is hard to convey, but I actually find you quite entertaining Silver - always have. You couldn't ask for a better illustration of Alma 12:10-11.

I know you recognize this. You know you are stuck in this behavior, but just remember - the moment you pray and confess this behavior to the Lord, immediately will the atonement begin to work in your soul. Rise above brother!
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)
It's very sad that you don't recognize what a pitiful shell of a heretic you've become as demonstrated by the desperate grasping on to each person who has drifted through this thread and offered a bit of support to you. Then you go off to other threads and talk (with LDS Anarchist, no less...do you want me to share the private message you sent me about him?) about how bored you've become with the naysayers here. (But you're careful to go back and edit those comments out of LDSA's thread, aren't you?) So, you flaming hypocritical heretic, I know exactly how empty your false doctrine is. Then you trot out Alinsky like it has some sort of relevance. Doesn't work. I know the truth. So as long as my Bible says that God works through prophets and as long as you teach the opposite of what the prophets teach, you're a heretic.
Well I supposed if I were a troll I'd take a joy in getting under your skin. I don't. I have spoken hard truths. You have called me names and made threats with extremely little substance. I am bored with the naysayers. I take no joy in seeing you spin out of control, though it does offer a measure of clarity as the spirit of the devil takes little interest in fighting falsehoods. So thank you for that - again. Have a good night Silver. Don't forget to say your prayers before you go to bed.
1 Nephi 16:2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
I haven't threatened you. You'd know it if I were threatening you. What a fantasy world you've created for yourself. Similarly, you're the one taking yourself out of the fellowship of the Church. Others, in much kinder tones than me, have pointed out the false nature of what you're teaching. That you ignore all those voices and doggedly reject even the scriptures is on you.

What you're preaching is false. The revelation you claim to have received is false. What a joke that you'd use 1 Nephi 16:2 on me when all I have said is what the Church and true prophets have taught us.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:17 pm
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)
After all the scriptures I posted - this still confuses you. You also conveniently left out the next verse 31 - that is very sneaky and a deliberate attempt to hide the truth.

Now is the time and day of your salvation = this is our probationary life or in other words what we do in this life determines our salvation - it is now...
Great plan of redemption is repent of our sins - take on the Name of Christ become one with Him, the redemption process starts as we progress and overcome the world, then when we die we are redeemed in the first resurrection.

Lets look at the context of the scripture. There is only one infinite and eternal sacrifice (there is no coming down and sacrificing yourself), if we do the works then we are saved by his mercy, we have so many witnesses of this - then in vs 31 it says if we do those works and harden not our hearts and repent we are saved. i.e. we are saved from our sins and the requirements of justice the same as entering into exaltation. If we have no sin through repentance we are resurrected with the just ie exaltation. It is really not difficult to understand..
Then very conveniently you left out the next verse - NOW is the day to prepare - no more labour for our salvation after this life - night of darkness (death) comes we can preform no more work.

9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice........

13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save...........

28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need—I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.
30 And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have received so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.
31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

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Alaris
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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Alaris »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 14th, 2018, 12:55 am
alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 11:17 pm
Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
Salvation does not equal Exaltation - You are welcome Spaced_Out! ;)
After all the scriptures I posted - this still confuses you. You also conveniently left out the next verse 31 - that is very sneaky and a deliberate attempt to hide the truth.

Now is the time and day of your salvation = this is our probationary life or in other words what we do in this life determines our salvation - it is now...
Great plan of redemption is repent of our sins - take on the Name of Christ become one with Him, the redemption process starts as we progress and overcome the world, then when we die we are redeemed in the first resurrection.

Lets look at the context of the scripture. There is only one infinite and eternal sacrifice (there is no coming down and sacrificing yourself), if we do the works then we are saved by his mercy, we have so many witnesses of this - then in vs 31 it says if we do those works and harden not our hearts and repent we are saved. i.e. we are saved from our sins and the requirements of justice the same as entering into exaltation. If we have no sin through repentance we are resurrected with the just ie exaltation. It is really not difficult to understand..
Then very conveniently you left out the next verse - NOW is the day to prepare - no more labour for our salvation after this life - night of darkness (death) comes we can preform no more work.

9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice........

13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the law of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
15 And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to call upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is mighty to save...........

28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need—I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.
30 And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have received so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.
31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
I apologize as that was stooping a bit on my part. You are a smart guy. I'm sure you didn't deliberately mean to misrepresent my beliefs that Jesus is the only person saved.

I've addressed these scriptures countless times. You can keep reposting them but none of them exclude or exempt mmp in the slightest. We believe in exaltation and eternal life. If you think you receive that power instantly you'll be in for a surprise. Many LDS understand that exaltation occurs within the bounds of agency and understand the promised dominions, principalities, thrones, etc are a progressive inheritance going from a small capacity to a greater one (that's King Follet) until you sit enthroned in power. Many believe this happens in our resurrected body... Which idea contradicts or own concept of your inheritance being tied to the glory of your body. I get it. There's a hard stopping point where most just stop thinking, pondering and praying and just say... Well they say we have enough.

But now I'm repeating myself too. :) have a good night brother.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Spaced_Out »

alaris wrote: January 14th, 2018, 1:23 am I've addressed these scriptures countless times. You can keep reposting them but none of them exclude or exempt mmp in the slightest. We believe in exaltation and eternal life. If you think you receive that power instantly you'll be in for a surprise. Many LDS understand that exaltation occurs within the bounds of agency and understand the promised dominions, principalities, thrones, etc are a progressive inheritance going from a small capacity to a greater one (that's King Follet) until you sit enthroned in power. Many believe this happens in our resurrected body... Which idea contradicts or own concept of your inheritance being tied to the glory of your body. I get it. There's a hard stopping point where most just stop thinking, pondering and praying and just say... Well they say we have enough.

But now I'm repeating myself too. :) have a good night brother.
You brought the scripture up claiming that salvation does not = exaltation, the scripture says nothing of the sort, but there is one eternal infinite sacrifice and our salvation is dependent on the works done in this life. No works for our salvation to be done in the world to come.. No coming down as a saviour as there is only one eternal sacrifice no more mortal probation's as this is the life no more life to gain salvation.
The scripture does indeed say there is no MMP - your explanations hold no water and have failed to justify MMP, and are not inline with teachings of the prophets. Very many of the general authorities have discussed Alma 34 in detail - that contradict your attempt at justification - I am sure if I looked hard enough I could find 50 quotes. Your justification that the Church is telestrial and only dealing with temporal things is very wrong.

We gain immortality and eternal life when we are resurrected -------- the greatest gift God has to offer, you can have your version of exaltation - I will take God's greatest gift over that...-

There are only bodies celestial, terrestrial and telestrial - in the resurrection one gains one there is no further change. Yes we still progress in the next life to greater knowledge in the presence of God never separated from him (eternal life) never having another probation that is what Alma 34 teaches.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 1:30 am
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:56 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:32 pm
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 8:03 pm Of course this meat is not meant for the masses. What a daunting thought! Nevertheless, all the scriptures make SO much more sense when you realize you are not exempted from descending below all before inheriting all, and why should you / would you be? Should you be robbed of the opportunity to show the greatest love before wielding the greatest power? Of course not!

The doctrine of only one person is saved per earth and that is the person who is the person doing the saving... If you can believe that you have moved beyond what any person on this earth can offer you...
Maybe ... lol ;)

I appreciate you expertly, carefully, accidentally replacing words for the purposes of deception ... that really helps your case keep it up.
The purpose of all those harsh words is to force the matter to a conclusion and bring out the real issue. Behind every doctrine there are underlying principles that support it in the mind of the person teaching the doctrine. Most of the underlying doctrine that you use to support MMP has been squeezed out. And we have now got to the grand finale - one person saved per world and that is the person who is doing the saving.

I have to challenge things so no investigator or newly baptised person can have their faith destroyed. No person reading this thread can now be deceived - the truth is out there in plainness and my job is done.
Spaced Out, you just do not get it... here let me point it out to you, so those who are following might!

Billions of males and females are SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

Millions of males sons and ten times as many female daughters are exalted or re-exalted by the ordinances of exaltation, and are also SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

One male Son of Yah is sanctified, eternally exalted, receives His kingdom and inheritance, receives the markings of Godhood in His God sired immortal body and the power (priesthood) to lay that body down and pick it up again, where he then becomes an Adam for His Son's in future creations. And from this world many many female Daughters of G_d are sanctified, eternally exalted, receives Their kingdom and inheritance, and G_d sired immoral body (in the Millennial world to come).

Is it important that you understand and embrace this doctrine here? NO! Hence that is why the Almighty hid this in the Mysteries of Godliness! This is the End Times, and those things that were hidden from the foundations of the earth are about to come forth. Wait but a little while, and you will see Him coming in the clouds of heaven as prophesied!

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Kingdom of ZION »

inho wrote: January 12th, 2018, 1:24 pm However, I personally do not believe that the prophets and apostles know any hidden doctrines like MMP. They might have better understanding about gospel mysteries. But I don't think those mysteries are any cosmological facts about pre- or post-mortal life. There is no need for the leaders of the church to know more than the general membership knows about that kind of things. They might have more insight in some things, they might have better idea of the future etc. But most importantly, mysteries are not facts or hidden doctrines, mysteries are about things that matter most. What matter most, is to learn to be like Christ. Mysteries are transcendental experiences, they are mysteries because one cannot explain them with words.
Wow............................. Not only do you think your guides are blind, and have only slightly better vision. They don't even have to know more about heaven or where they are leading people too. Super!

I am just greatly enjoying the reading of this debate! But this post just kind of stood out there as so far out I had to point it out... if you think people will buy that, they would also buy that there is a God who is without body, parts, or passions, who is nowhere and yet everywhere... etc. etc.

No in all seriousness, "But most importantly, mysteries are not facts or hidden doctrines, mysteries are about things that matter most. What matter most, is to learn to be like Christ. Mysteries are transcendental experiences, they are mysteries because one cannot explain them with words."

"Mysteries are not facts", so what you are saying is, Mysteries are not truths or true.
"Mysteries are not hidden doctrines", so what you are saying is, Mysteries are not doctrines.
"Mysteries are about what matters most, to learn to be like Christ", so what you are saying is no one knows how to be like Christ, hence (because) it is a Mystery.
"It is a transcendental experience, because no one can explain the (the mysteries) with words", so what you are saying is that, you must meditate to experience how to be like Christ as no one can tell you how because no one has the words to explain.

Your doctrine is one of confusion to me... I cannot ascribe to a belief that Mysteries are un-explainable and that I just need to believe because your Pontiff says so, and that is the beauty of it. I sorry, you failed to convert me, Was there compensation promised?

I am just quoting you here, and pointing out how absurd it sounds.
Last edited by Kingdom of ZION on January 14th, 2018, 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Silver »

Kingdom of ZION wrote: January 14th, 2018, 8:08 am
Spaced_Out wrote: January 13th, 2018, 1:30 am
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:56 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: January 12th, 2018, 9:32 pm
The doctrine of only one person is saved per earth and that is the person who is the person doing the saving... If you can believe that you have moved beyond what any person on this earth can offer you...
Maybe ... lol ;)

I appreciate you expertly, carefully, accidentally replacing words for the purposes of deception ... that really helps your case keep it up.
The purpose of all those harsh words is to force the matter to a conclusion and bring out the real issue. Behind every doctrine there are underlying principles that support it in the mind of the person teaching the doctrine. Most of the underlying doctrine that you use to support MMP has been squeezed out. And we have now got to the grand finale - one person saved per world and that is the person who is doing the saving.

I have to challenge things so no investigator or newly baptised person can have their faith destroyed. No person reading this thread can now be deceived - the truth is out there in plainness and my job is done.
Spaced Out, you just do not get it... here let me point it out to you, so those who are following might!

Billions of males and females are SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

Millions of males sons and ten times as many female daughters are exalted or re-exalted by the ordinances of exaltation, and are also SAVED by salvation through the Messiah, and the ordinances of salvation.

One male Son of Yah is sanctified, eternally exalted, receives His kingdom and inheritance, receives the markings of Godhood in His God sired immortal body and the power (priesthood) to lay that body down and pick it up again, where he then becomes an Adam for His Son's in future creations. And from this world many many female Daughters of G_d are sanctified, eternally exalted, receives Their kingdom and inheritance, and G_d sired immoral body (in the Millennial world to come).

Is it important that you understand and embrace this doctrine here? NO! Hence that is why the Almighty hid this in the Mysteries of Godliness! This is the End Times, and those things that were hidden from the foundations of the earth are about to come forth. Wait but a little while, and you will see Him coming in the clouds of heaven as prophesied!
Announcer: Welcome to the Out There Awards Show. In the category of Best Writer of a Mass of Confusion, the winner is Kingdom of ZION!

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by AI2.0 »

alaris wrote: January 13th, 2018, 7:39 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:15 pm My responses in blue;
alaris wrote: January 12th, 2018, 6:06 pm
HappyCamper8 wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:16 am

Alaris, I'm not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by "It says never but that's not a real handshake." Thanks.
Apologies HappyCamper8. It's been a super busy week. I've done my best to stay engaged in this thread, but that has meant more misspelled words than usual and shorter posts. Here is what I mean.

Naysayer: "The resurrection is the spirit and the body reuniting never to be divided! It's literal! It means forever ever foreverness!They say that because that is what we preach. From the Bible dictionary: "The resurrection consists in the uniting of the spirit body with the body of flesh and bones, never to be divided." I don't know why you think that's to be interpreted literally. As long as I've been a member of this church, that is how it has been presented. It's doctrine. Sure Adam was forever never to die until he did,Per the Book of Mormon, Lehi's teachings, Adam would have lived forever if he'd remained in the garden. He did become subject to death when he partook of the fruit and his days were prolonged in mortality, so he would have time to repent before he died.. There's nothing to misunderstand with this. It's also doctrine. and sure endless torment was a deliberate word play to hide the meat from the milk drinkers, but this time .. this time it says never! You're not reading it right. I'll post it 10 more times. etc."I'm not sure what you are getting at with that. It is the Lord who is explaining 'endless torment'. It IS endless and will be endless for those who are in hell and will not repent. The Lord is not lying to you.

Naysayer: *read this in Pat Gray's genius voice* "Well Lucifer carried an apple sure, and Peter, James, and John shook hands sure ... but that's just figurative!"It is figurative because of LDS doctrine, which is plain and clear. Lucifer was denied a body. That means per LDS doctrine he doesn't have a body. Do I have to find an official statement for this, because I'm certain that any member of the church who attend and reads scripture will tell you that Lucifer was cast out, along with 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven and they lost their chance for a body. Therefore, when the actor who portrays Lucifer picks the fruit and hands it to Eve, it's understood that he still does not have a physical body. Because that's LDS doctrine. And the same goes for Peter, James and John. When they shake hands, we are to understand that they don't have physical bodies, because they haven't been born yet. They shake hands because it's actors portraying something to teach us. They are human and so they have physical bodies, but we are supposed to think of this as in the time of Adam and Eve, when there were no other children of Heavenly Father in physical form--since they hadn't been born yet. That's LDS doctrine.

Sorry that felt like mocking. It's been a long week and I try to draw the line at sarcasm. Like I said, I've still a ways to go myself on my progression.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that of course there are symbols and of course there are things that are literal. But trying to judge which is which and throwing up a hard wall is about the dumbest thing you can do to yourself. Humbly submit to the Father as a child submits to a parent. I've referred to Mosiah 3:19 enough in this thread, I should actually quote it here. Perhaps this will reinforce the amazing lesson I've learned witnessing the... *thinking of a civil word*... base.. attacks in this thread:If you are going to try to claim that Lucifer and Peter, James and John have physical bodies, you are going to be told you are wrong, because of what LDS doctrine teaches. So, you say the LDS church is wrong to teach this, but I say I believe the church and will believe what they teach, not what you teach.
Mosiah 3:19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
Submissive, meek, humble, patient (I'm actually doing a little better here all sarcasm aside), full of love (need some improvement here). Still this formula is exactly what is needed to counter the effects of Alma 12. I mean, is there any level of self awareness here. *Pat Gray voice again* Well gee ... I know Jesus says love thy neighbor but Alaris is a sick, lying troll whose membership should be revoked. I mean maybe if it were me truly lost I'd throw in some love there....

Well, this is a great lesson for me as well. I love you guys. Truly. Pray. Just ... pray. Ask for guidance - be nonspecific - and listen. The Lord loves you all and wants you all to succeed on the path to salvation, whether that's one body or many.
I don't know how to be more clear on this. I'm LDS, I believe the LDS church teaches true doctrine. I believe Lucifer did not have a body, because the church says he doesn't:

Elder Bednar: "The great principle of happiness consists in having a body. The devil has no body, and herein is his punishment. "

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2010/06/thin ... e?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/04/the- ... n?lang=eng

Since the devil and his premortal angels have no physical body of flesh and bones, they often seek to possess the bodies of mortal beings. There are many such instances recorded in scripture (Matt. 9:32; 12:22; Mark 1:24; 5:7; Luke 8:30; Acts 19:15; see also Mosiah 3:6).


https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/devil

I think most people realize that since Adam and Eve are in the Garden, and have not had children yet, Peter James and John are in spirit form. Spirit form does consist of refined matter, though.

If you want to call me a 'naysayer' or accuse me of rejecting 'more', I disagree. I'm reiterating LDS doctrine and I'm rejecting what you are sharing which is not in harmony with revealed LDS doctrine and scripture.
There is evidence that the devil and Lucifer are two separate beings. There is a great thread on LDSFF about the evidence. Of course this idea is a lot easier to grasp with mmp and iterations of eternal rounds... Well not even that necessarily... I don't want to derail my own thread. :)

Are you attempting to use a false belief to support another false belief?

LDS doctrine as that there is only one Devil. He is called other names (just like Christ is), Satan and Lucifer are other names for the same, disembodied being. Once again, it is your interpretation--what you think you read, in the scriptures which impresses you to believe things which are not LDS doctrine.

I will reiterate this; God does want to give us further light and knowledge, but it will build upon and add to the truths he's already revealed. New truth will not contradict or make the foundational truths false. If it does, you can bet you are being deceived.

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Re: Multiple Mortal Probations Article

Post by Mindfields »

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Mark Twain

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