Seek God’s face or be tempted

[Mark]

I do progression can happen if we make it to the highest degree. No exact direct quote then I take it.

22. Brethren, shall we not go on in so great a cause? Go forward and not backward. Courage, brethren; and on, on to the victory! Let your hearts rejoice, and be exceedingly glad. Let the earth break forth into singing. Let the dead speak forth anthems of eternal praise to the King Immanuel, who hath ordained, before the world was, that which would enable us to redeem them out of their prison; for the prisoners go free.- Joseph Smith

Why are they in prison? What would cause them to be freed?

SJR obviously rejects the revelations given thru the Prophet Joseph Smith. Funny how he/she seems to like the BOM. Pick and choose cafeteria plan. Take what you please and throw out the rest. So convenient..

[SJR3t2]

Mark obviously rejects what is taught in the BoM.

Just because I don't believe things the same way you do does not mean I reject revelations or scriptures.

[Mark]

Mark obviously rejects what is taught in the BoM.

Just because I don't believe things the same way you do does not mean I reject revelations or scriptures.

Just curious what your religious persuasion is SJR. Do you belong to any one church? It would be helpful to understand your background.

[SJR3t2]

When I am around an English speaking ward, I'm an active non-member of the LDS church. I like going to other churches also, but when they learn I believe in the BoM and JS all hell breaks lose. There are a couple labels you could apply to me, an extra wet Mormon, Karaite Mormon, and a Messianic who believes in the BoM and JS. I'm not a member of any earthly church.

[AI2.0]

Repentance is a thing that cannot be trifled with every day. Daily transgression and daily repentance is not that which is pleasing in the sight of God. - Joseph Smith, Words of Joseph Smith - Deluxe Study Edition, Kindle Locations 10455-10456

Our Savior commands us to repent, and Joseph Smith is the one who introduced the temple ordinances, in that we offer Baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost by proxy, to those on the other side....WHO MUST REPENT! That is, if they are to received those blessings done on their behalf. How did you, SJR3t2, lose you way so far from the iron rod that you reject the 'Love of God'?

I assume you still believe the book of Mormon. In Lehi's vision of the tree of life, they are all moving toward the tree so that they can eat the fruit--which is the Love of God. The Love of God is the plan of Salvation, that God gave his only begotten son, to redeem and save us--if we would repent and come unto him. Many Christian religions only believe that those who repent in this life and accept Christ can be saved, but Joseph Smith changed that notion and taught that the spirits of the dead are given opportunity to accept the Gospel and the priesthood ordinances offered, in the spirit world. In order to accept baptism; repentance and faith are required steps. So, simple logic tells us that repentance is not only a part of that process, the process can't happen without it.

I understand by your comments that you reject later LDS prophets, but in your rejection of the belief that repentance is possible in the the spirit world, you are also rejecting even Joseph Smith, because he is the one who revealed this truth.

[SJR3t2]

I love the word of God aka iron rod aka scriptures. I honestly believe in the BoM more that I did before.

I'm not saying not to repent, but I'm saying we should not keep sinning.

LDS church rejects things that JS restored. Lectures on Faith comes to mind as one document. FYI it was the doctrine of the D&C in 1835.

[AI2.0]

I love the word of God aka iron rod aka scriptures. I honestly believe in the BoM more that I did before.

I'm not saying not to repent, but I'm saying we should not keep sinning.

LDS church rejects things that JS restored. Lectures on Faith comes to mind as one document. FYI it was the doctrine of the D&C in 1835.

It's nice that you believe the Book of Mormon more now than you did when you were a member, but the problem is now, you are reading it without the light and guidance of the Holy Ghost as your constant companion--a gift you lost when you rejected your LDS baptism. That would mean to me that you are missing a lot of the light and truth that is found within it's pages.

And I agree, we should not keep sinning, but we are human and we will keep sinning. Hopefully, as we work to do better, our sins are fewer and less serious and we don't continue to commit the same sins over and over again. Repentance will be a daily thing, for those who are trying to better as we all fall short.

The 'iron rod' is the word of God, which in the LDS church, is more than just our scriptural canon. We have living prophets and continuing revelation and so, the word of God includes the teachings of living prophets in our General Conferences and Ensign, etc.

And the church has not rejected the Lectures on Faith--in fact, they are very often quoted in General Conference. I know all about the criticism by Fundamentalists about the removal of the Lectures on Faith from being bound with the Doctrine and Covenants. It doesn't stop anyone from reading them or owning them. The Lectures on Faith are valuable and used in teaching the Gospel on a regular basis, even by those who don't know they are quoting it or referring to teachings taught in it. And Joseph didn't 'restore' the Lectures on Faith--they were teaching tools used at one time in the school of the prophets, I believe.

In all fairness it is you, not the LDS church, who actually reject what Joseph Smith restored, in that you reject the ability for those in the spirit world to repent (which Joseph clearly taught). If as you said on your blog, you resigned from the LDS church, then you rejected the Temple and it's ordinances, which Joseph Smith was responsible for revealing and restoring.

[SJR3t2]

The Lord shares his Spirit abundantly with everyone who keeps the commandments, he shares it MORE abundantly with those who are baptized.

Mosiah 18:10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may POUR out his Spirit MORE ABUNDANTLY upon you?

Mosiah 29:45 And now it came to pass that his father died, being eighty and two years old, having lived to fulfil the commandments of God.


We are to follow Jesus' example, including FULFILLING the commandments.
Moroni 8:25 And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the FULFILLING the commandments; and the FULFILLING the commandments bringeth remission of sins;

Alma 11:37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.


Lectures on Faith 5
Question 3: How many personages are there in the Godhead?
Two: the Father and the Son. (5:1)
lecturesonfaith.com/5/

2 Nephi 32:5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, IT will show unto you all things what ye should do.

2 Nephi 33:2 But behold, there are many that DARDEN their HEARTS against the HOLY SPIRIT, that IT hath no place in them; wherefore, they cast many things away which are written and esteem them as things of naught.

Alma 34:38 That ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive IT, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in thanksgiving daily, for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.

Alma 39:6 For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when IT once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny IT, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/12/09/alma ... of-spirit/

You say living prophets, what have they actually done that goes with that title you keep assigning to them?
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

You might want to look into the succession crisis? And issues that go along with that.

Also I believe the BoM prophecies of Brigham Young, you might want to take a look of that also.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/07/04/king-brigham/

[AI2.0]

https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/12/09/alma ... of-spirit/

Lectures on Faith 5:2 there is a phrase that confuses people, it did me at first also, “The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness”, namely “personage of spirit”.

God the Father can be called a personage of spirit, just as I can be called that, and so can you. We are all spirit; in our case, since we are here on earth, we are spirit and flesh. I also don't believe that the Lectures on Faith are teaching anything that contradicted Joseph's testimony (since I'm assuming he would not have approved if it was teaching something false), that God is a personage of spirit and has an immortal, tangible body.

[AI2.0]

You say living prophets, what have they actually done that goes with that title you keep assigning to them?
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/10/04/in-h ... yesterday/

My responses in blue;

In honor of today and yesterday

Show me a Prophet that prophecies. Or better yet show me a prophet that boldly testifies that he has seen the face of God and lives, Genesis 32:30. Just like the charge from Oliver Cowdrey “When you bear testimony that you have seen God.”This sounds like a partial sentence and so I'm not sure exactly what context and what point he was trying to make. I do think that Oliver Cowdery understood that it was a great privilege that he was a special witness for the restoration and I know he understood that there would be many who whose gift of the spirit would be to 'believe on the testimony of others'--namely his testimony. Not everyone is given this gift, but yet, we are still expected to bear testimony. I bear testimony of my faith in the Savior, but I haven't seen him in the flesh. It feels to me that you don't respect my kind of testimony, but only want to hear from those who can tell you (and will share it) that they've seen Jesus in the flesh. With what the Lord told Thomas--that is was 'more blessed' to believe without seeing. I don't understand those like you who discount the testimonies of those who know by faith, and not by pure knowledge. DHC 2:195-196. Such that I will gain the courage myself to experience the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ myself, see D&C 76:14 and LoF 2:56, which is seeing God face to face.That's fine, you should be working toward that, but I think you should not discount the power of a testimony borne in faith. The Lord did not discount these humble testimonies. Show me a prophet of God that teaches us not to rely on him but on God.Go listen to a General Conference talk--they tell us all the time to rely on God--I've never heard them tell us to rely on them--they've only reminded us to heed their counsel, as they try to teach us the things that Heavenly Father has inspired them to teach, for this is their calling and stewardship--to be witnesses for Christ. And no, they don't have to tell us they've 'seen' him for their testimonies to be of value to us. That teaches us what God’s commandments are, that we may receive God’s protection, and in preparation to see God. Wise words from Joseph Smith on the subject, “Oh! I beseech you to go forward, go forward and make your calling and your election sure; and if any man preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, he shall be cursed; and some of you who now hear me shall see it, and know that I testify the truth concerning them.” TPJS, p. 366.No one is preaching against striving to make your calling and election sure, but I am warning some to realize that keeping commandments, keeping covenants made in the temple and through the waters of baptism, living the gospel in our relationships with those around us, serving and loving others, etc....these things are a requirement for receiving the second comforter--there are no short cuts. THAT is what Joseph Smith taught and that's what we should emphasize. It comes after a life of living and showing that we will do all he's asked and live the commandments strictly, repenting and receiving of his spirit daily. He desires to bless us, but we must do our part and then we wait patiently and humbly upon the Lord.

Show me a Seer that translates ancient records himself, see Mosiah 8:13 & Mosiah 28:16, instead of hiring people to translate ancient records. Show me a Seer who is translating the Book of Mormon into Hebrew to help bring the Book of Mormon to the Jews as talked about in its title page, not someone who supports political agreements to keep a school in Jerusalem at the expense of the Lord’s public stated plans. Show me a Seer who makes unknown things known, see Mosiah 8:17.How do you know that this is not the will of Heavenly Father on how this was handled? You know that 'the last shall be first and the first shall be last'. I believe that not until the Jews humble themselves and repent, will they have the opportunity to hear the gospel, and so, by their own choice, they will be 'last', as was prophesied. As for translating, why does the Prophet have to do everything? Why not allow others to use their gifts to translate things that can easily be translated by someone who knows the language? You know, Joseph didn't translate the Book of Mormon because he was fluent in reformed egyptian--the fact is, no one was fluent and knew the language. That was why Joseph had to do it, through the power of God. And, if Heavenly Father needs a prophet to translate something that no one knows the language, the Prophet can do it. Otherwise, there's no reason to not let others do it.

Show me a Revelator that reveals things from the Lord saying thus saithI disagree with the narrow demand that some, like you insist on, that Revelations must begin with 'thus saith the Lord'. Sorry, I simply disagree and think you are straining at gnats. the Lord so we can know what is from the Lord We're supposed to pray for confirmation that the things taught to us by our Prophets are from God--That's how we 'know' it is from the Lord. I personally don't need a 'thus saith the Lord' to know when something is a revelation, I've received witnesses many times that the Prophet was revealing the Lord's will for us.and what is expounding as in ancient times and as Joseph Smith followed, who boldly teachings us the gospel not cute one line sayings from men.Excuse me? 'Cute line sayings'? Maybe you need to listen with a more humble and less prideful, elitist, judgemental heart and maybe you'll be able to know when the Lord is trying to teach you something. Show me a Revelator like Lehi who was not scared to speak the words from the Lord to the people no matter how the people would take it, vs someone who reads words from a talk that was edited for 6 months by who knows how many people and committees.Their talks are not edited for 6 months and they don't run through any committees. This is a false notion and a very dismissive one, which is unfair. LDS general authorities are not given a topic and their talks are not edited or passed for approval. Frankly, I see boldness in many of the things that are shared. Listen to Pres. Oaks talk from the last General Conference.

Show me a man of God who is not afraid of the arm of flesh like Jerimiah, who boldly declares what commandments we are not following.You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I think their approach must be different because our society is different. The people won't listen to their leaders in the same way they would 50 years ago--because they are different. I believe they love us and work tirelessly and prayerfully to try to reach our hearts and help the spirit to teach us. Sorry they don't do things the way you think they should, and that doesn't make them wrong.

Show me a prophet who labors himself to sustain himself instead of living off of the people, see 2 Nephi 26:29, 2 Nephi 26:31, Mosiah
18:24, Mosiah 18:26, Mosiah 27:5, Alma 1:26.You sound like Korihor, he accused Alma and Amulek of the same thing. Now your list is sounding just like the rest of the disgruntled dissidents who've left the church and go through their laundry list of complaints against the Lord's anointed servants.
Look, if they call someone to serve full-time in their church calling, the only fair and right thing to do is give them an allowance or living stipend so that they are not a burden on their extended family, having to be supported. Or, the church could only call men who are wealthy and can live off their own money, while they serve. This is one of the more frustrating things that dissidents bring up because it's just so....dumb. Joseph received money from the church, as well as the other leaders at that time-- does that upset you?

In Matt 7:15-20 Jesus teaches us that we shall know prophets by their fruits. Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Jesus did not say you shall know their fruits of being a prophet after you believe you believe they are a prophet. On the contrary, Jesus is showing us one important principle of not being deceived. Before you can know that some is the title that they claim to have from God, you must know of their fruits. We must have knowledge of the fruits of the title before we can study it out in our minds before we take it to the Lord for confirmation that the title comes from Him, see D&C 9:8.You are right, we know them by their fruits. I see men who are humble, spiritual, loving and give their lives over to the church--it's no picnic! They are no longer in control of their own lives and they are on stage 24-7, they can never just be people. Their fruits are a testimony of their character.

Many will say just have faith. Let’s not forget the counsel that James gave us in James 2:14-26. Verse 20 is very instructive, “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” What could he be saying there? The last part of verse 18 I believe will help us out, “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” For me it is clear what he is teach hear. Faith is not idling by doing nothing, but going out and doing good works in the name of God. Which also relates to what I am saying up above. What is another word for works? It is fruit. So I ask once again by what fruits are prophet, seers, and revelators known by that I may study out what they have done that I may then go to God and ask for confirmation if they are called of Him and not men, see Matt 7-15-20 and D&C 9:8. Still not convinced? Let’s see what a modern prophet taught, namely the prophet Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith 1:9 “From this we learn … and the principle of action in all intelligent beings.” Joseph Smith says faith is a principle of action, sounds just like what James was saying, work or going out and doing good in the name of God.

I don't think they can 'prove' to you they are prophets, because you've pridefully judged them and done so harshly. You don't listen to their words, you don't pray for them and you don't love them (which we all should do for those around us who serve us). It's no surprise you don't respect them and you have no testimony of them.

[AI2.0]

Also I believe the BoM prophecies of Brigham Young, you might want to take a look of that also.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2017/07/04/king-brigham/

What can I say? You shouldv'e gone with your gut and NOT posted this one, it is full of false conclusions and accusations based on lies and rumors and is offensive.

Brigham Young was not responsible for Polygamy, he did not order Mountain Meadows massacre, he was not a wicked man and the Book Of Mormon did not prophesy his death. He was not perfect, but he doesn't deserve the vile charges made against him.

It would have been better not to have joined the hoards that trash this simple man who was a prophet of God.

[inho]

I do progression can happen if we make it to the highest degree. No exact direct quote then I take it.

22. Brethren, shall we not go on in so great a cause? Go forward and not backward. Courage, brethren; and on, on to the victory! Let your hearts rejoice, and be exceedingly glad. Let the earth break forth into singing. Let the dead speak forth anthems of eternal praise to the King Immanuel, who hath ordained, before the world was, that which would enable us to redeem them out of their prison; for the prisoners go free.- Joseph Smith

Why are they in prison? What would cause them to be freed?

SJR3t2,
Did you ever answer shadow's question? There also other revelations by Joseph Smith that mentions the preaching of the gospel to spirits in prison (D&C 76:73 , D&C 88:99).

[SJR3t2]

Testimony is misused a lot.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/02/19/testimony/

LDS conference you will hear trust us, we (the arm of flesh) will not lead you astray. You will also hear all is well is zion (2 Nephi 28).

“When you bear testimony that you have seen God. … Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face. … Your ordination is not full and complete till God has laid His hand upon you.” Oliver Cowdery DHC 2:195-196

I'm talking about titles that they claim that they don't have any fruits of, if I have missed their fruits of them please point me to them.

LDS church has taught that a prophet needs to say THUS SAITH THE LORD espically when they try to teach others of prophets and Joseph Smith.

You should learn more of the process of what happens with conference talks.

This is the gospel of repentance. John the baptist, who Jesus called one of the greatest prophets, called the leaders of his day vipers.

[SJR3t2]

Regarding King Brigham my gut said to post it. Many have told me that they find it very insightful, if you don't that is okay, don't read it anymore.

[inho]

LDS church has taught that a prophet needs to say THUS SAITH THE LORD

Ezra Taft Benson disagrees with you.

[Mark]

Testimony is misused a lot.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/02/19/testimony/

LDS conference you will hear trust us, we (the arm of flesh) will not lead you astray. You will also hear all is well is zion (2 Nephi 28).

“When you bear testimony that you have seen God. … Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face. … Your ordination is not full and complete till God has laid His hand upon you.” Oliver Cowdery DHC 2:195-196

I'm talking about titles that they claim that they don't have any fruits of, if I have missed their fruits of them please point me to them.

LDS church has taught that a prophet needs to say THUS SAITH THE LORD espically when they try to teach others of prophets and Joseph Smith.

You should learn more of the process of what happens with conference talks.

This is the gospel of repentance. John the baptist, who Jesus called one of the greatest prophets, called the leaders of his day vipers.

There are plenty of forums and discussion boards on the internet that love to trash the LDS church and its leadership. Why arent you spending your time on those discussion boards? Why are you wasting your time and ours coming on a pro LDS board and trying to stir up dirt and controversy about the church we love and support? Get a life! and go do something positive and productive with your time. Your negativity and prideful accusations toward the LDS church just show everybody your character flaws.

[drtanner]

Testimony is misused a lot.
https://seekingyhwh.com/2015/02/19/testimony/

LDS conference you will hear trust us, we (the arm of flesh) will not lead you astray. You will also hear all is well is zion (2 Nephi 28).

“When you bear testimony that you have seen God. … Never cease striving until you have seen God face to face. … Your ordination is not full and complete till God has laid His hand upon you.” Oliver Cowdery DHC 2:195-196

I'm talking about titles that they claim that they don't have any fruits of, if I have missed their fruits of them please point me to them.

LDS church has taught that a prophet needs to say THUS SAITH THE LORD espically when they try to teach others of prophets and Joseph Smith.

You should learn more of the process of what happens with conference talks.

This is the gospel of repentance. John the baptist, who Jesus called one of the greatest prophets, called the leaders of his day vipers.

There are plenty of forums and discussion boards on the internet that love to trash the LDS church and its leadership. Why arent you spending your time on those discussion boards? Why are you wasting your time and ours coming on a pro LDS board and trying to stir up dirt and controversy about the church we love and support? Get a life! and go do something positive and productive with your time. Your negativity and prideful accusations toward the LDS church just show everybody your character flaws.

It is easy to read between the lines of those who come here who at some point believed in the true church and have since forsaken sacred covenants. You can tell they are not convinced nor have any real convictions of what they believe and use the forum as a sounding board with a glimmer of hope that they will find something that resonates and gives them faith enough to again believe. To that end I hope they find it. The only other point of coming here would be to try and pawn others into believing what they believe either to justify and pacify their own deception and inner guilt for leaving or to genuinely lead others from the truth. In either case we know who the author is of that kind of proselytizing and is never the way the savior would reach out to individuals to share his gospel thus adding a testimony to where the real truth lies.

[SJR3t2]

I believe that Jesus Christ is our promised Messiah. I have literally have heard an audiable voice from God helping me in troubled times guiding me to the right thing to do because he loves me as he loves all His children unconditionally. Heavenly Father so loved the world that he send his only begotten Son, to show us how to keep his commandments, and to provide a way for the bond of death and hell to be broken. Jesus Christ is who He says he is, the Saviour of the world. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and a man or women will get closer to God abiding by it prececepts, FYI precepts means commandmets not principles, and abide mean keeping them not just knowing about them, than any other book. This Book of Mormon is trully meant for our day, before the great tribulation, to prepare God sheep who hear his voice to help us to know that the Bible as it left the pen of the prophets is the word of God and the way to life and salvation. I have found great peace, understanding and cour
and courage not just believing in the Book of Mormon but also doing what it teaches instead of making exuses. I hope to one day to be able to say like Joseph Smith, who God called to translate this great work, that he KNOWS that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that He LIVES because he saw him on the right hand of God. I believe it, so much, Idon't think I could ever empaphise enough how much I truly believe that, and want everyone to know of God's love and to behold His face now. as 3 Nephi 18:25 encourages everyone to do, not the never verse makes it clear he is talking to everyone in verse 25. I have gotten to God by trusting the BoM over any man no matter what ever title they have claimed. The BoM is truly the word of God. I strive to learn it like the back of my hand.

[Mark]

I believe that Jesus Christ is our promised Messiah. I have literally have heard an audiable voice from God helping me in troubled times guiding me to the right thing to do because he loves me as he loves all His children unconditionally. Heavenly Father so loved the world that he send his only begotten Son, to show us how to keep his commandments, and to provide a way for the bond of death and hell to be broken. Jesus Christ is who He says he is, the Saviour of the world. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and a man or women will get closer to God abiding by it prececepts, FYI precepts means commandmets not principles, and abide mean keeping them not just knowing about them, than any other book. This Book of Mormon is trully meant for our day, before the great tribulation, to prepare God sheep who hear his voice to help us to know that the Bible as it left the pen of the prophets is the word of God and the way to life and salvation. I have found great peace, understanding and cour
and courage not just believing in the Book of Mormon but also doing what it teaches instead of making exuses. I hope to one day to be able to say like Joseph Smith, who God called to translate this great work, that he KNOWS that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that He LIVES because he saw him on the right hand of God. I believe it, so much, Idon't think I could ever empaphise enough how much I truly believe that, and want everyone to know of God's love and to behold His face now. as 3 Nephi 18:25 encourages everyone to do, not the never verse makes it clear he is talking to everyone in verse 25. I have gotten to God by trusting the BoM over any man no matter what ever title they have claimed. The BoM is truly the word of God. I strive to learn it like the back of my hand.

Bravo SJR! Stick with your testimony of Christ and His great dispensation Prophet Joseph Smith and you will be happy. Emulating Christ and His example to us all is the key to happiness. As revealed thru the Prophet Joseph Smith the keys to Christlike communication are as follows:

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—..

45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God;..

Faultfinding and criticism of the church and its leadership does not emulate the example given us by our Savior. Becoming an accuser of the Brethren is Satans title and schtick. He is the inspiration behind that type of behavior. Do not let him guide you in your communication style. He will drag you down into the gutter with him. Reject that temptation and move forward in charity and love even when differences surface. That is the Saviors way.

[SJR3t2]

Jesus Christ faulted leaders in his day. I did not make this thread a focus of that, others did that by faulting things that I believe.

[drtanner]

I believe that Jesus Christ is our promised Messiah. I have literally have heard an audiable voice from God helping me in troubled times guiding me to the right thing to do because he loves me as he loves all His children unconditionally. Heavenly Father so loved the world that he send his only begotten Son, to show us how to keep his commandments, and to provide a way for the bond of death and hell to be broken. Jesus Christ is who He says he is, the Saviour of the world. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and a man or women will get closer to God abiding by it prececepts, FYI precepts means commandmets not principles, and abide mean keeping them not just knowing about them, than any other book. This Book of Mormon is trully meant for our day, before the great tribulation, to prepare God sheep who hear his voice to help us to know that the Bible as it left the pen of the prophets is the word of God and the way to life and salvation. I have found great peace, understanding and cour
and courage not just believing in the Book of Mormon but also doing what it teaches instead of making exuses. I hope to one day to be able to say like Joseph Smith, who God called to translate this great work, that he KNOWS that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God and that He LIVES because he saw him on the right hand of God. I believe it, so much, Idon't think I could ever empaphise enough how much I truly believe that, and want everyone to know of God's love and to behold His face now. as 3 Nephi 18:25 encourages everyone to do, not the never verse makes it clear he is talking to everyone in verse 25. I have gotten to God by trusting the BoM over any man no matter what ever title they have claimed. The BoM is truly the word of God. I strive to learn it like the back of my hand.

I am grateful for your testimony of Christ and of the reality of his love for all his children. A beautiful thing to share and I’m glad you did. I would add, that because he loves his children he continues to call prophets in our day to represent him. Just as he did in the Book of Mormon. I have several friends that have heard audible voices, one of which that while serving as a bishop had a miraculous experience with an audible voice that changed his whole young men’s program. One of my closest friends has shared with me several personal experiences some of which I have not heard anyone on this forum allude to type or specificity. I wish everyone here who doubted the current church could know this man. All of these people sustain and support the living prophets, recognize that keys still exist in the church, and that the temple and its ordinances and covenant pathway is an important way to follow him. I also have had experiences while serving in the temple that I can not deny. The sad part of all of this is those seeking Christ with all of there hearts but who abandon those who he calls to represent him rather than joininig in sustaining them in his work will be left wanting in there relationship with him.

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[Joseph Smith] closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved. - Words of Joseph Smith - Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 563-564). Packard Technologies. Kindle Edition.

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[Joseph Smith] closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved. - Words of Joseph Smith - Deluxe Study Edition (Kindle Locations 563-564). Packard Technologies. Kindle Edition.

This is a second hand account from a journalist at the time, Mathew Livingston Davis in a letter he wrote to his wife about an interaction with Joseph Smith. There are several first hand accounts from Jospeh himself and several in the D&C and several hundred second hand accounts which talk about the necessity of authority, ordinances, and keys. All of which are only found in his current church today. Christ Church is still established and experiences are happening all of the time that witness this.

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if that is what you believe go with it.

“God will not acknowledge that which He has not called, ordained, and chosen. In the beginning God called Adam by His own voice. “And the Lord called unto Adam and said unto him, where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, and hid myself.” (See Genesis 3:9-10.) Adam received commandments and instructions from God: this was the order from the beginning" (TPJS, pg. 168)

"Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire. And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch, it being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God; And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name."(JST Genesis 14:26-29)

"Thus we behold the keys of this Priesthood consisted in obtaining the voice of Jehovah that He talked with him [Noah] in a familiar and friendly manner, that He continued to him the keys, the covenants, the power and the glory, with which He blessed Adam” (TPJS, pg. 171)

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How this thread is no longer about what my original post was about, I will no longer be responding here.