Who are the gentiles?

[drtanner]

Lots of prophecy in the scripture about the gentiles in our day. What are your thoughts on who this group actually is?

Is this a member of the church? A member outside the church? A certain bloodline or lack of a bloodline? A member of the church but who has not qualified for adoption? Any alternate group? Some good discussion for several of these questions.

[LdsMarco]

As used in the scriptures, Gentiles has several meanings. Sometimes it designates people of non-Israelite lineage, sometimes people of non-Jewish lineage, and sometimes nations that are without the gospel, even though there may be some Israelite blood among the people. This latter usage is especially characteristic of the word as used in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/gentiles?lang=eng

[drtanner]

As used in the scriptures, Gentiles has several meanings. Sometimes it designates people of non-Israelite lineage, sometimes people of non-Jewish lineage, and sometimes nations that are without the gospel, even though there may be some Israelite blood among the people. This latter usage is especially characteristic of the word as used in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/gentiles?lang=eng

So if you had to point to a group today and say, “those are gentiles.” who would you be pointing to?

[TrueIntent]

Lots of prophecy in the scripture about the gentiles in our day. What are your thoughts on who this group actually is?

Is this a member of the church? A member outside the church? A certain bloodline or lack of a bloodline? A member of the church but who has not qualified for adoption? Any alternate group? Some good discussion for several of these questions.

I've been pondering this....in the New Testament....the gentiles were those who received the witnesses of the gospel without the "worship pattern" and membership of being a Jew. So Jews followed strict religious patterns and were supposed to be the elect or chosen ones, but they end up not being able to recognize their own messiah, and the gospel is turned over to the gentile, who didn't follow patterns of worship like circumcsicion, and yet they followed the spirit and received the same witnesses. It was offensive to the Jews that others, who had not performed the same "works" like those of ritual and circumscision and worship patterns, that they could not recognize their own messiah, and that this messiah would give the gospel to the gentiles.

So. That's one explanation........what do you say about the gentiles?

[Z2100]

Lots of prophecy in the scripture about the gentiles in our day. What are your thoughts on who this group actually is?

Is this a member of the church? A member outside the church? A certain bloodline or lack of a bloodline? A member of the church but who has not qualified for adoption? Any alternate group? Some good discussion for several of these questions.

There are actually four groups:

1. The Gentiles: people living in modern/developed countries such as the U.S. (ex: countries with Christianity)

2. Heathens: Tribes in Africa (generally all of Africa) and religions of Islam and Muslim in the Middle East and the peoples of the steppe in Asia (ex: Mongolia)

3. Lamanites: native Americans in North & South America as well as Latino/Hispanic people. They also double as Gentiles

4. House of Israel: The Lamanites, and The Jews. Gentiles can enter the House of Israel proxy becoming a member of the church


Anymore questions? I’d be happy to answer them.

[LdsMarco]

So if you had to point to a group today and say, “those are gentiles.” who would you be pointing to?

Non members and (IMO) - In a spiritual level... if you're not converted 'spiritually', then you are a gentile. There are members who are not willing to keep the commandments, therefore, you're still a gentile. That's just my opinion.

Those who are willing to keep his commandments are not gentiles but from the house of Israel.

[drtanner]

Lots of prophecy in the scripture about the gentiles in our day. What are your thoughts on who this group actually is?

Is this a member of the church? A member outside the church? A certain bloodline or lack of a bloodline? A member of the church but who has not qualified for adoption? Any alternate group? Some good discussion for several of these questions.

There are actually four groups:

1. The Gentiles: people living in modern/developed countries such as the U.S. (ex: countries with Christianity)

2. Heathens: Tribes in Africa (generally all of Africa) and religions of Islam and Muslim in the Middle East and the peoples of the steppe in Asia (ex: Mongolia)

3. Lamanites: native Americans in North & South America as well as Latino/Hispanic people. They also double as Gentiles

4. House of Israel: The Lamanites, and The Jews. Gentiles can enter the House of Israel proxy becoming a member of the church


Anymore questions? I’d be happy to answer them.

Would you place anyone that has been baptized in the church into this category?

[Z2100]

Lots of prophecy in the scripture about the gentiles in our day. What are your thoughts on who this group actually is?

Is this a member of the church? A member outside the church? A certain bloodline or lack of a bloodline? A member of the church but who has not qualified for adoption? Any alternate group? Some good discussion for several of these questions.

There are actually four groups:

1. The Gentiles: people living in modern/developed countries such as the U.S. (ex: countries with Christianity)

2. Heathens: Tribes in Africa (generally all of Africa) and religions of Islam and Muslim in the Middle East and the peoples of the steppe in Asia (ex: Mongolia)

3. Lamanites: native Americans in North & South America as well as Latino/Hispanic people. They also double as Gentiles

4. House of Israel: The Lamanites, and The Jews. Gentiles can enter the House of Israel proxy becoming a member of the church


Anymore questions? I’d be happy to answer them.

Would you place anyone that has been baptized in the church into this category?

The baptized people would just be in number 4

[marc]

Here's one to have some fun with. The last leaf of the gold plates is what we have today as the title page of the Book of Mormon. Moroni wrote:

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

What Gentile was given the gift of interpretation? And why did Moroni consider him a Gentile?

[inho]

Here's one to have some fun with. The last leaf of the gold plates is what we have today as the title page of the Book of Mormon. Moroni wrote:

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

What Gentile was given the gift of interpretation? And why did Moroni consider him a Gentile?

President Joseph Fielding Smith also provided insight on how the term Gentile could apply to Joseph Smith even though he was a descendant of Jacob (Israel) through Joseph, the father of Ephraim:

...

“How did the Book of Mormon come forth? By the hand of Joseph Smith. Yet we read in the Book of Mormon [see 2 Ne. 3:7–15] that Joseph Smith is the descendant of Joseph who was sold into Egypt by his brethren, nevertheless he came by ‘way of the Gentile,’ according to Moroni’s prediction.” (Answers to Gospel Questions, 4:39.)

Thus, Joseph Smith was of the house of Israel so far as his family or blood lines were concerned, but he came from a Gentile nation and thus might also be considered a Gentile in the political or geographical sense.

Statements from Church Leaders: “Are most members of the Church literal descendants of Abraham by birth?”

Another interpretation is that Joseph Smith was a gentile, because he hasn't been baptized when he began the translation.

[marc]

Another interpretation is that Joseph Smith was a gentile, because he hasn't been baptized when he began the translation.

In 1836 (long after having been baptized), Joseph offered the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland temple. The prayer was given to him by the Lord in revelation. In that revelation, the Lord described Joseph and all present thus:

D&C 109:60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee, concerning the revelations and commandments which thou hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles.

[Z2100]

Here's one to have some fun with. The last leaf of the gold plates is what we have today as the title page of the Book of Mormon. Moroni wrote:

Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites—Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel; and also to Jew and Gentile—Written by way of commandment, and also by the spirit of prophecy and of revelation—Written and sealed up, and hid up unto the Lord, that they might not be destroyed—To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof—Sealed by the hand of Moroni, and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile—The interpretation thereof by the gift of God.

What Gentile was given the gift of interpretation? And why did Moroni consider him a Gentile?

Moroni is clearly talking about Joseph Smith. Before JS got the priesthood and stuff, we would've been just an ordinary gentile.

[marc]

Moroni is clearly talking about Joseph Smith. Before JS got the priesthood and stuff, we would've been just an ordinary gentile.

Ordinary gentile as opposed to another kind of gentile? See my reply to inho. Joseph Smith had already received priesthood and stuff.

[inho]

Another interpretation is that Joseph Smith was a gentile, because he hasn't been baptized when he began the translation.

In 1836 (long after having been baptized), Joseph offered the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland temple. The prayer was given to him by the Lord in revelation. In that revelation, the Lord described Joseph and all present thus:

D&C 109:60 Now these words, O Lord, we have spoken before thee, concerning the revelations and commandments which thou hast given unto us, who are identified with the Gentiles.

English is not my native language, so could you tell me if there is difference between being identified with the Gentiles and being identified as a gentile? I mean, could it be that the Gentiles refers to the nation, but the people at Kirtland dedicatory were not gentiles?

[marc]

I personally believe they mean the same thing in this case.

[onefour1]

The Gentiles are originally the children of Japheth, a son of Noah.

Genesis 10:1-5
1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

[simpleton]

Very simple... We are the Gentiles. Us latter day saints ( so called) are the Gentiles referred to in the book of Mormon. And the sooner we realize it the better off we will be as most of Isaiah also applies to the latter days, the bad and the good. And by applying the scriptures to us being the " Gentiles" referenced in the scriptures you begin to realize that it is not us being "good" Gentiles and all the rest are " bad" gentiles.( and by the way in answer to the above , "3. Lamanites: native Americans in North & South America as well as Latino/Hispanic people. They also double as Gentiles"....
That statement is totally incorrect as they are Lamanites, period, not Gentiles.)

One of many scriptural examples, this can only apply to us as latter day saints:
3rd Nephi 16:

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them....
IMO, you have to have the gospel to be able to sin against it. So who or what people qualify to fit that description? It can only be us in the good ol USA , and more especially us as LDS...

[drtanner]

Very simple... We are the Gentiles. Us latter day saints ( so called) are the Gentiles referred to in the book of Mormon. And the sooner we realize it the better off we will be as most of Isaiah also applies to the latter days, the bad and the good. And by applying the scriptures to us being the " Gentiles" referenced in the scriptures you begin to realize that it is not us being "good" Gentiles and all the rest are " bad" gentiles.( and by the way in answer to the above , "3. Lamanites: native Americans in North & South America as well as Latino/Hispanic people. They also double as Gentiles"....
That statement is totally incorrect as they are Lamanites, period, not Gentiles.)

One of many scriptural examples, this can only apply to us as latter day saints:
3rd Nephi 16:

10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them....
IMO, you have to have the gospel to be able to sin against it. So who or what people qualify to fit that description? It can only be us in the good ol USA , and more especially us as LDS...

It is pretty clear from 1 Nephi chapter 14 gentiles in this chapter are not members of the church, taking this a step further he saw the same things things Isaiah saw. Were members of the church separated by many waters from the seed of his brethren?

1 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld many nations and kingdoms.
2 And the angel said unto me: What beholdest thou? And I said: I behold many nations and kingdoms.
3 And he said unto me: These are the nations and kingdoms of the Gentiles.
4 And it came to pass that I saw among the nations of the Gentiles the formation of a great church.
5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.
6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.
7 And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.
8 And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity.
10 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld many waters; and they divided the Gentiles from the seed of my brethren.
11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.
17 And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them.
18 And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle.
19 And I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles that had gone out of captivity were delivered by the power of God out of the hands of all other nations.
20 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that they did prosper in the land; and I beheld a book, and it was carried forth among them.
21 And the angel said unto me: Knowest thou the meaning of the book?
22 And I said unto him: I know not.
23 And he said: Behold it proceedeth out of the mouth of a Jew. And I, Nephi, beheld it; and he said unto me: The book that thou beholdest is a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; and it also containeth many of the prophecies of the holy prophets; and it is a record like unto the engravings which are upon the plates of brass, save there are not so many; nevertheless, they contain the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; wherefore, they are of great worth unto the Gentiles.
24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.
25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.
26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest--because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God--because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.
30 Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God above all other nations, upon the face of the land which is choice above all other lands, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance; wherefore, thou seest that the Lord God will not suffer that the Gentiles will utterly destroy the mixture of thy seed, which are among thy brethren.
31 Neither will he suffer that the Gentiles shall destroy the seed of thy brethren.
32 Neither will the Lord God suffer that the Gentiles shall forever remain in that awful state of blindness, which thou beholdest they are in, because of the plain and most precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, whose formation thou hast seen.
33 Wherefore saith the Lamb of God: I will be merciful unto the Gentiles, unto the visiting of the remnant of the house of Israel in great judgment.
34 And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me, saying: Behold, saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remnant of the house of Israel--and this remnant of whom I speak is the seed of thy father--wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb--I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.
35 For, behold, saith the Lamb: I will manifest myself unto thy seed, that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious; and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold, these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, by the gift and power of the Lamb.
36 And in them shall be written my gospel, saith the Lamb, and my rock and my salvation.
37 And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they shall have the gift and the power of the Holy Ghost; and if they endure unto the end they shall be lifted up at the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tidings of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be.
38 And it came to pass that I beheld the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the book of the Lamb of God, which had proceeded forth from the mouth of the Jew, that it came forth from the Gentiles unto the remnant of the seed of my brethren.
39 And after it had come forth unto them I beheld other books, which came forth by the power of the Lamb, from the Gentiles unto them, unto the convincing of the Gentiles and the remnant of the seed of my brethren, and also the Jews who were scattered upon all the face of the earth, that the records of the prophets and of the twelve apostles of the Lamb are true.
40 And the angel spake unto me, saying: These last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from them; and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved.
41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.
42 And the time cometh that he shall manifest himself unto all nations, both unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles; and after he has manifested himself unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles, then he shall manifest himself unto the Gentiles and also unto the Jews, and the last shall be first, and the first shall be last.

[Arenera]

Actually, members of the Church are Covenant People.

1 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.

2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

[inho]

Actually, members of the Church are Covenant People.

1 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.

2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

Paul preaches the same in Galatians 3.

[lemuel]

This is just my take, and I could be wrong, but:

1. Israel has been scattered around the world to the extent that, most everybody might have an Israelite ancestor.
2. Even if one does not have Israelite DNA, anyone has the opportunity to be numbered with Israel:
   

   Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.

3. The way Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni see it, they still make a distinction between people with clear Israelite lineage (Lamanites, Jews) and those without it (gentiles). As an analogy, and I don't mean this in a racist way, but white Americans will call a Hispanic guy a Mexican, even if he's a Guatemalan and a 3rd generation US citizen. Similarly, even if a gentile is adopted into the covenant, he's still a gentile to Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni.

In summary, I think that anyone can be Israel when it comes to salvation, but when it comes to prophecy, Israel is Israel and gentiles are gentiles. And I'm a gentile in that regard.

[Arenera]

Actually, members of the Church are Covenant People.

1 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.

2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

Paul preaches the same in Galatians 3.

Excellent!

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[simpleton]

This is just my take, and I could be wrong, but:

1. Israel has been scattered around the world to the extent that, most everybody might have an Israelite ancestor.
2. Even if one does not have Israelite DNA, anyone has the opportunity to be numbered with Israel:
   

   Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.

3. The way Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni see it, they still make a distinction between people with clear Israelite lineage (Lamanites, Jews) and those without it (gentiles). As an analogy, and I don't mean this in a racist way, but white Americans will call a Hispanic guy a Mexican, even if he's a Guatemalan and a 3rd generation US citizen. Similarly, even if a gentile is adopted into the covenant, he's still a gentile to Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni.

In summary, I think that anyone can be Israel when it comes to salvation, but when it comes to prophecy, Israel is Israel and gentiles are gentiles. And I'm a gentile in that regard.

Exactly..... we are the gentiles referenced or spoken about in scriptures.

[Arenera]

This is just my take, and I could be wrong, but:

1. Israel has been scattered around the world to the extent that, most everybody might have an Israelite ancestor.
2. Even if one does not have Israelite DNA, anyone has the opportunity to be numbered with Israel:
   

   Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.

3. The way Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni see it, they still make a distinction between people with clear Israelite lineage (Lamanites, Jews) and those without it (gentiles). As an analogy, and I don't mean this in a racist way, but white Americans will call a Hispanic guy a Mexican, even if he's a Guatemalan and a 3rd generation US citizen. Similarly, even if a gentile is adopted into the covenant, he's still a gentile to Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni.

In summary, I think that anyone can be Israel when it comes to salvation, but when it comes to prophecy, Israel is Israel and gentiles are gentiles. And I'm a gentile in that regard.

Exactly..... we are the gentiles referenced or spoken about in scriptures.

Wouldn’t you rather be part of the Covenant People?

[drtanner]

This is just my take, and I could be wrong, but:

1. Israel has been scattered around the world to the extent that, most everybody might have an Israelite ancestor.
2. Even if one does not have Israelite DNA, anyone has the opportunity to be numbered with Israel:
   

   Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.

3. The way Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni see it, they still make a distinction between people with clear Israelite lineage (Lamanites, Jews) and those without it (gentiles). As an analogy, and I don't mean this in a racist way, but white Americans will call a Hispanic guy a Mexican, even if he's a Guatemalan and a 3rd generation US citizen. Similarly, even if a gentile is adopted into the covenant, he's still a gentile to Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni.

In summary, I think that anyone can be Israel when it comes to salvation, but when it comes to prophecy, Israel is Israel and gentiles are gentiles. And I'm a gentile in that regard.

Exactly..... we are the gentiles referenced or spoken about in scriptures.

Not really, there are plenty of times where it is obvious the prophets on ancient scripture are not referring to current day members of the church when they use the phrase gentiles. We may be gentiles in some use of the word depending on the context but in many cases we are not the group the prophets were seeing in these visions. Case and point 1 Nephi 14 to name one of many found in scripture. There is a growing trend by many who oppose or have left the church to lump all Latter Day Saints and current leaders in this category.