How do we best educate adult LDS members w/o losing them?

[justkeepswimming]

In a different thread, Ed Goble made this informative point, and I think it merits its own thread because this is a very sensitive subject worth exploring.

"It's going to be a rough ride to figure out good programs for how to implement a principle of inoculation among the Adults of the Church. It is easy enough to do it among the youth in Seminary. But for people who are set in their ways about what they think reality is, if you teach them, they feel betrayed and think the Church lied to them. Yes, the Church withheld information and put forth a narrative that was incorrect, but there is no easy way to figure out how to teach people and break this to them this in a way that they won't leave the Church over. Anyone that thinks about this carefully can understand the tightrope the Church is walking on, trying to somehow let people know facts, but in a way that we wont have hemmoraging in the membership of loss of faith. Unfortunately, there is no non-messy way to do that." pg 3 of this thread viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46952&start=60

One thing I think would be helpful is to require all bishops to read all of the essays so they are at least prepared to acknowledge the inconsistencies of what was once taught vs. what is now being taught through the essays. Few things are more frustrating as a member with legitimate questions, than to bring them up with a bishop who is both unaware of the inconsistency and unprepared to help an honest seeker of our collective history.

What do you think?

[Jesef]

Not just bishops, but stake presidents, and all the Area Authority Seventies and Seventies, etc., i.e. the entire hierarchy needs the training/education. It becomes problematic with the degree of turnover in the leadership, particularly local leaders, every 5-10 years.

[marc]

Stop complicating salvation.

The rock is Jesus Christ. The wise man built his house upon the rock. Faith in Jesus Christ alone is what should be taught.

D&C 11:1 A great and marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men.

2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my word.

3 Behold, the field is white already to harvest; therefore, whoso desireth to reap let him thrust in his sickle with his might, and reap while the day lasts, that he may treasure up for his soul everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God.

4 Yea, whosoever will thrust in his sickle and reap, the same is called of God.

5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

6 Now, as you have asked, behold, I say unto you, keep my commandments, and seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.

7 Seek not for riches but for wisdom; and, behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, and then shall you be made rich. Behold, he that hath eternal life is rich.

8 Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be done unto you; and, if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation.

9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation. Keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my work, according to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

10 Behold, thou hast a gift, or thou shalt have a gift if thou wilt desire of me in faith, with an honest heart, believing in the power of Jesus Christ, or in my power which speaketh unto thee;

11 For, behold, it is I that speak; behold, I am the light which shineth in darkness, and by my power I give these words unto thee.

12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.

Faith, repentance, baptism of water and fire. The Spirit will teach you all things what ye should do (2 Nephi 32).

Receive the Comforter. Be guided by the Comforter. Plain and simple.

[JohnnyL]

In a different thread, Ed Goble made this informative point, and I think it merits its own thread because this is a very sensitive subject worth exploring.

"It's going to be a rough ride to figure out good programs for how to implement a principle of inoculation among the Adults of the Church. It is easy enough to do it among the youth in Seminary. But for people who are set in their ways about what they think reality is, if you teach them, they feel betrayed and think the Church lied to them. Yes, the Church withheld information and put forth a narrative that was incorrect, but there is no easy way to figure out how to teach people and break this to them this in a way that they won't leave the Church over. Anyone that thinks about this carefully can understand the tightrope the Church is walking on, trying to somehow let people know facts, but in a way that we wont have hemmoraging in the membership of loss of faith. Unfortunately, there is no non-messy way to do that." pg 3 of this thread viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46952&start=60

One thing I think would be helpful is to require all bishops to read all of the essays so they are at least prepared to acknowledge the inconsistencies of what was once taught vs. what is now being taught through the essays. Few things are more frustrating as a member with legitimate questions, than to bring them up with a bishop who is both unaware of the inconsistency and unprepared to help an honest seeker of our collective history.

What do you think?

Except I think the essays need to be replaced. I don't think they are good, and I don't think they are correct. They've been up for a while, and I think most active members already knew that, so I'm not sure who is going to be leaving.

[gardener4life]

2 points...

People think they are too busy to read their scriptures. They are going to fall away when they aren't reading scriptures and doing personal and family prayer. By the small and simple things are great things brought to pass. They also have this disconnect of I already went on a mission and get married in the temple so its not possible for me to fall away or get tempted.

Another issue is kids always hear from their parents that they'll get to choose what to do when they are older (adults). I think this is contributing to the idea that it doesn't matter what you do now that you are an adult. We're teaching agency wrong! We're teaching something like there are no consequences and you are free to do what you want. "Oh I guess you have your agency, you can do that, i can't stop you." Instead we should be saying..."You know you do have your agency...but putting your arm in a woodchipper is going to hurt like @*@#(*@!" The arm in the woodchipper is a spiritual relation to many of the choices of people in our family but it's no less painful and real. There's a disconnect on teaching people the penalties of actions and too much use of teaching agency as an 'excuse to do anything'. Agency was taught to teach consequences, not irresponsibility with no connection to we reap what we sow.

[Rose Garden]

Why should the church be concerned about people who choose to leave the church?

[gardener4life]

Why would you think think that leaving the church isn't hurting them? Why would you think that leaving the only way back to Heavenly Father isn't a wound that won't be fixed? (Spiritual wounds don't heal on their own without help.) If you remember this, then of course you think that if they leave we are concerned for their well being, not ours or the churches.

[brlenox]

Stop complicating salvation.

The rock is Jesus Christ. The wise man built his house upon the rock. Faith in Jesus Christ alone is what should be taught.

D&C 11:1 A great and marvelous work is about to come forth among the children of men.

2 Behold, I am God; give heed to my word, which is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of both joints and marrow; therefore give heed unto my word.

3 Behold, the field is white already to harvest; therefore, whoso desireth to reap let him thrust in his sickle with his might, and reap while the day lasts, that he may treasure up for his soul everlasting salvation in the kingdom of God.

4 Yea, whosoever will thrust in his sickle and reap, the same is called of God.

5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

6 Now, as you have asked, behold, I say unto you, keep my commandments, and seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.

7 Seek not for riches but for wisdom; and, behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, and then shall you be made rich. Behold, he that hath eternal life is rich.

8 Verily, verily, I say unto you, even as you desire of me so it shall be done unto you; and, if you desire, you shall be the means of doing much good in this generation.

9 Say nothing but repentance unto this generation. Keep my commandments, and assist to bring forth my work, according to my commandments, and you shall be blessed.

10 Behold, thou hast a gift, or thou shalt have a gift if thou wilt desire of me in faith, with an honest heart, believing in the power of Jesus Christ, or in my power which speaketh unto thee;

11 For, behold, it is I that speak; behold, I am the light which shineth in darkness, and by my power I give these words unto thee.

12 And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit.

Faith, repentance, baptism of water and fire. The Spirit will teach you all things what ye should do (2 Nephi 32).

Receive the Comforter. Be guided by the Comforter. Plain and simple.

Marc has nailed it. It doesn't matter what the narrative is or how compelling the "facts" may be it is the testimony of Jesus Christ that provides the foundation to put all things in their proper place. Without that testimony, it matters little what the saints do or do not know.

[justkeepswimming]

Marc, for all I have learned about you from your posts I am a little taken back by your lack of empathy for what's happening to a huge demographic of our LDS brothers and sisters. It was not they who complicated a narrative of church history that they were taught in sunday school, seminary, the MTC, institute. All the while they were focused on Christ, they were simply told that the Christ they worshiped also founded his church in one very specific way, and upon learning that it was in fact a very different narrative, naturally they questioned those who taught them about Christ in the first place.

It's these people who deserve our empathy, not simple platitudes like 'stop complicating salvation.' Marc, if you were (and maybe your are) a bishop, I sure hope you would have empathy and show it for the young 28 year old elder who just found out from his friends post on Facebook that the essays do in fact prove that old anti mormon lies are actually our real history. These kids, these adults, these future leaders are dying to be understood, dying to be heard, and are so tired of being told to simply pray, to read scriptures, to wait for the Lord to help us understand context. These are smart members and we're losing them because our current generation of leaders are woefully unprepared to handle even the most basic doctrinal and historical questions.

Whether we want to admit it or not, there is a gigantic truth gap between what was taught, what is being slowly rolled out, and the ability of our local leaders to bridge this gap with these members.

For a man like you, who has received the Comforter, it is all too simple to say 'stop complicating salvation,' but for thousands of LDS btwn 20 and 45 years old, they are scared, confused, some feel betrayed and even lied to. These are not members we have to lose but that can come back stronger than ever but my question remains; how do we best educate them w/o losing them?

Stop complicating salvation.

The rock is Jesus Christ. The wise man built his house upon the rock. Faith in Jesus Christ alone is what should be taught.

Receive the Comforter. Be guided by the Comforter. Plain and simple.

[justkeepswimming]

I'm talking about very active members who are suddenly confronted with a narrative that strongly contradicts what they were taught their whole lives. The church has every interest in concerning itself with these members. These are sheep who aren't even lost, they are scared and confused but who, in most cases, meet with local leaders who aren't prepared to address their concerns.

Why should the church be concerned about people who choose to leave the church?

[justkeepswimming]

Couldn't agree more

Not just bishops, but stake presidents, and all the Area Authority Seventies and Seventies, etc., i.e. the entire hierarchy needs the training/education. It becomes problematic with the degree of turnover in the leadership, particularly local leaders, every 5-10 years.

[inho]

What do you think?

I think, the worst thing we can do is to talk about "the hard issues" and how people are losing faith because what they read about church history and mistakes leaders did in past and how this is not going to affect me, because I have a testimony and I trust the witness of the Spirit.
All the talk about people finding problems in the church history just makes other wonder if there really are real problems there.

When we teach history in a matter-of-fact way, it is the best way to inoculate. Recently, I gave a lesson about the different versions of the first vision. It was a fifth Sunday and priesthood and relief society were together. We read the different narratives. We noticed the differences. But since I didn't make a huge deal about the "possible problems", nobody even thought that there were problems. There are things we might not understand, but that is not a problem. We don't have a perfect understanding about everything anyway. If you mention things like the seer stones in a lesson without making a fuss about it, it will go well (this is easier now after the Ensign article and the release of the photos).
In my opinion, the best way to inoculate people is to do it in the midst of our lessons that we would have anyway.

[justkeepswimming]

You're doing it perfectly, not making it a huge deal, using this material in the normal flow of the lesson. I think you're the exception and a great one at that. I hope your bishop is listening because it's him, behind closed doors, who gets asked specifics.

What do you think?

I think, the worst thing we can do is to talk about "the hard issues" and how people are losing faith because what they read about church history and mistakes leaders did in past and how this is not going to affect me, because I have a testimony and I trust the witness of the Spirit.
All the talk about people finding problems in the church history just makes other wonder if there really are real problems there.

When we teach history in a matter-of-fact way, it is the best way to inoculate. Recently, I gave a lesson about the different versions of the first vision. It was a fifth Sunday and priesthood and relief society were together. We read the different narratives. We noticed the differences. But since I didn't make a huge deal about the "possible problems", nobody even thought that there were problems. There are things we might not understand, but that is not a problem. We don't have a perfect understanding about everything anyway. If you mention things like the seer stones in a lesson without making a fuss about it, it will go well (this is easier now after the Ensign article and the release of the photos).
In my opinion, the best way to inoculate people is to do it in the midst of our lessons that we would have anyway.

[marc]

For a man like you, who has received the Comforter, it is all too simple to say 'stop complicating salvation,' but for thousands of LDS btwn 20 and 45 years old, they are scared, confused, some feel betrayed and even lied to. These are not members we have to lose but that can come back stronger than ever but my question remains; how do we best educate them w/o losing them?

I answered it plainly. Why do members allow their children to be baptized at age eight, yet do not understand what it means to be baptized? Why then do members pretend to receive the Holy Ghost? And if they believe they have received the Holy Ghost, why do they ignore it, seeking wisdom from men? I know the answer because it is written in my heart. But for most, they still cling to their own ways (and will not forsake their sins). Please do not confuse my plainness with lack of empathy. I have been in those shoes. It is why I still visit this forum after all these years, enduring criticism and name calling, to share what I have learned and what I know. I often repeat myself and reword myself because I remember reading answers clear as day to questions I had, yet I did not learn it by the Spirit. While I retained the knowledge in my mind, it had not yet been written in my heart. One can know the answer and still not know the answer. I perceive that having reworded my answer now, it will yet sound cryptic, but is plain.

Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a bishop; an apostle, or a president. If you do, they will fail you at some time or place, they will do wrong or seem to, and your support be gone, but if we lean on God, He never will fail us. When men and women depend on God alone, and trust in Him alone, their faith will not be shaken if the highest in the Church should step aside. They could still see that He is just and true, that truth is lovely in His sight, and the pure in heart are dear to Him. Perhaps it is His own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that His saints may learn to trust in Him and not in any man or men! Therefore, my brethren and sisters, seek after the Holy Ghost and his unfailing testimony of God and His work upon the earth. Rest not until you know for yourselves that God has set His Hand to redeem Israel, and prepare a people for His coming.” (Deseret Weekly, March 7, 1891. pg. 322, No. 11 vol. XLII a Discourse by Pres. George Q. Cannon, Manti, Sanpete County on the evening of February 15, 1891).

[Arenera]

what's happening to a huge demographic of our LDS brothers and sisters.

Where are you getting your information? I don't see anything, except here at LDSFF.

[oneClimbs]

I think that it would also be worthwhile to put the church and the people involved in its history in proper context. If we stick to doctrines and principles then that is the safest bet and will guide people into experiences with God. No mortal man should be lifted to a level of adoration to the degree that we do with Joseph Smith or the current church president. By virtue of their office, they have the right to certain gifts to bless the church and we need to know that, but we should not deify these people.

Joseph Smith himself said it best:

"I have not an idea there has been a great many very good men since Adam There was one good man Jesus. – Many think a prophet must be a great deal better than any body else. – suppose I would condescend. yes I will call it condescend, to be a great deal better than any of you. I would be raised up to the highest heaven, and who should I have to accompany me. I love that man better who swears a stream as long as my arm, and administering to the poor & dividing his substance, than the long smoothed faced hypocrites. I don't want you to think I am very righteous, for I am not very righteous God judgeth men according to the light he gives them" Words of Joseph Smith, p.204 (18 May 1843)

Focusing on the path and helping someone find God will be placing them on a foundation of rock. Without that, you are building a religion based on swatting at flies and firey darts. You're not going to prevent the wrestle that everyone must have to come to know God. The path to the tree passes through mists of darkness and everyone must pass through them.

Preparing people for this experience, that will surely come, will also help them have greater confidence in holding to the word to make it safely through. We do tend to vastly overcomplicate these things. We, unfortunately, have to make things simpler for children, but people grow and mature at different rates and making sure each person progresses in their understanding takes a great deal of personal ministration.

You cannot try and steer people around the mists, they have to go through them. People that are better prepared will do better. Those mists can be the challenges of critics, the shady lens of history, and the indiscretions of people who, as servants of God, did or were accused of doing devilish things.

[TrueIntent]

In a different thread, Ed Goble made this informative point, and I think it merits its own thread because this is a very sensitive subject worth exploring.

"It's going to be a rough ride to figure out good programs for how to implement a principle of inoculation among the Adults of the Church. It is easy enough to do it among the youth in Seminary. But for people who are set in their ways about what they think reality is, if you teach them, they feel betrayed and think the Church lied to them. Yes, the Church withheld information and put forth a narrative that was incorrect, but there is no easy way to figure out how to teach people and break this to them this in a way that they won't leave the Church over. Anyone that thinks about this carefully can understand the tightrope the Church is walking on, trying to somehow let people know facts, but in a way that we wont have hemmoraging in the membership of loss of faith. Unfortunately, there is no non-messy way to do that." pg 3 of this thread viewtopic.php?f=14&t=46952&start=60

One thing I think would be helpful is to require all bishops to read all of the essays so they are at least prepared to acknowledge the inconsistencies of what was once taught vs. what is now being taught through the essays. Few things are more frustrating as a member with legitimate questions, than to bring them up with a bishop who is both unaware of the inconsistency and unprepared to help an honest seeker of our collective history.

What do you think?

Except I think the essays need to be replaced. I don't think they are good, and I don't think they are correct. They've been up for a while, and I think most active members already knew that, so I'm not sure who is going to be leaving.

These are my thoughts exactly! The essays themselves contradict the scriptures and prop of the incorrect philosophies of the leadership. It doesnt matter what we did in the early church...if it was wrong...we should acknowledge it....if it was incorrect..we should acknowledge it...if it contradicts scripture...we shouldn't teach it. The problem is, we continually try to prop up the mistakes of current AND past leadership. The ESSAYS SUCK!...it was the essay itself that lead me to where I am.....we will continue to lose members until we stop JUSTIFYING the former leaders. The gospel truly is about Jesus Christ....Period.

People who are leaving are those who need an excuse to leave....So..things blew up in my old ward....and I keep hearing more and more people are coming forward and leaving. The church provides a support system. if people find that they have their own support system (as more and more people come out of the woodwork with issues...they have each other)....they don't need the church's support system. Also people that need an excuse to leave...like they struggle with Judgmental people or just people in general, or they don't like the culture or rules...instantly have a way out...the church "withheld" information. So, the church lied for their benefit. You want an excuse to leave...the church just gave it to you! They don't ALWAYS lead people correctly...right there...so then people can choose for themselves...they don't have to follow a prophet that will mislead them. Ive stayed at church, but I tend to be one of those that say...follow the spirit, sure stay with the body of the church if it's good for you, but Im not judgmental when people leave. I get it.

Most people don't read the essays either. To this day, I have only read a couple of the essays...but I know there are issues with all of them. I read the one that I had struggled with my whole life....POLYGAMY....and it was the essay itself that wrecked my "faith" in the leadership....but the beautiful think is...once my "faith" in the leadership was broken, I turned toward Christ and His spirit...which is where I needed to be all along.

This was my trigger.....Directly from the church essays...https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marri ... o?lang=eng

Nevertheless, rumors spread. A few men unscrupulously used these rumors to seduce women to join them in an unauthorized practice sometimes referred to as “spiritual wifery.” When this was discovered, the men were cut off from the Church.21 The rumors prompted members and leaders to issue carefully worded denials that denounced spiritual wifery and polygamy but were silent about what Joseph Smith and others saw as divinely mandated “celestial” plural marriage.22 The statements emphasized that the Church practiced no marital law other than monogamy while implicitly leaving open the possibility that individuals, under direction of God’s living prophet, might do so.23

In this statement I see, LIES, HYPOCRISY, PRIESTCRAFT, SECRET COMBINATIONS, ADULTERY, LUST, JUSTIFICATION, and SATAN "the father of all lies".....

"carefully, worded denials that denounce .......but were silent about......"......LET DEFINE WHAT THIS MEANS....They lied. Seriously...when you have to use a big long...."carefully worded" paragraph to say they lied about what they were doing in secret. You should just come out and say it. Sometimes leaders of the church LIE to the members. The essays taught me that.....they taught me this in two ways.....

1. Early Leaders Lied about Polygamy
2. The information about the lies always existed, BUT the latter-day church withheld the information and lied about distributing it for their own benefit.

So the essays confirmed early and modern church leaders LIE...thank you for publishing the essays, and backing the early church leaders poor judgement. So now when you say the church is evolving...I say, nope...its the same story on repeat, just different issues. We still lie to cover our butts, we hope them membership is ignorant on some level. The Pattern is the same. There are patterns in the scriptures, just like there are patterns today. WE are going to have to acknowledge that these things are not of God.

Moral of the story. Men in high places struggle with the "praise of the world" and may LIE. So follow the spirit and Jesus Christ....AND in general the body of the church is good...and we are all doing our best, and we should extend mercy....just don't put them on a pedastool over your own relationship with God...or worship the leadership. Worship Jesus christ.

NOW...as i say this...LET ME GIVE PROPs to the early leaders of the church.....They followed the spirit!!!! (not always a good spirit)...but they were experimental in their faith, and were trying to connect to God. They sought revelation...REMEMBER>..not all revelation comes from God...so there were times Im sure they screwed up. But it's because of the records that were kept...that I can make better judgements...so that I don't have to follow some man at the pulpit blindly, or some evil spirit disguised as an angel of light. It's because of their mistakes that I can make better choices. So props to those men, who occasionally wondered off into midsts of darkness...Abraham, Issac, and Jacob....all those in the old testament, and the early church...who followed the spirit, and made mistakes, and kept records, so that I could be better. They kept those records for us.

[Finrock]

The Church has the difficult task of helping people stay close to the Lord until they get to know the Lord themselves by being converted to Christ because they were baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost. The Church is filled with a variety of individuals who are all at various spiritual levels and General Authorities have the task of assisting people come to Christ who exist at these various spiritual levels. Some people need manuals and specific guidance and instructions. Some need to be commanded more than others. Some are very insecure in their spirituality and they need someone to tell them what to do, how to be, and how to live. Some have come to know Christ a bit better and don't need to be held by the hand as much. Some people have little faith, some has great faith. Some are here and others are there. I believe the Church wants to reach people at all levels and that they trust that those who have been converted to Christ (meaning they have taken the Holy Ghost as their guide) will be guided by the Holy Ghost and do much good without being directed or commanded by them.

In this effort by the Church sometimes mistakes are made. Too much information is held back or too little is provided. Or, in an effort to protect the faith of the weak, focus in given to stories and history that are faith promoting. I believe the Church today has seen the error of their policy in the past where only faith promoting or positive stories were encouraged to be shared or researched by historians, etc. I believe the Joseph Smith Papers and other such projects have come about as a result of the Church seeing that their efforts to share only faith promoting stuff has backfired as many people feel betrayed or lied to. True, some people would feel this way regardless of what the Church had done but I believe there are many good and sincere people who feel betrayed or lied to and would like answers.

The best answer, in my opinion, is to point people to Jesus Christ and to help people to start building their lives on the sure foundation of Christ instead of the unsure foundation of prophets, leaders, people, mortals, or things and institutions like the Church, etc. Christ will show us that all mortals, no matter where they serve, who they are, their spiritual level, they position, or calling are fallible in nature and are prone to error, sin, and mistakes. We will know that we are nothing, without God, and that all must rely and put their trust in Jesus Christ. So then when leaders mess up, sin, falter, or fail our faith and our peace isn't affected, knowing that this is what we can expect from ourselves and others, but knowing that Christ will never falter, fail, or disappoint. He will lead us in the way that we should go and what we should do and how we should be. If we put our trust in Jesus Christ, all things can fail and fall away, yet we will be safely standing on a sure foundation.

-Finrock

[eddie]

Their anchor should be Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith was a messenger, a man with shortcomings and faults, but a Prophet who deserves to be honored. He did not organize the church of Joseph Smith. When you start questioning Joseph's faults as a reason to question the truthfulness of the gospel, you lose faith in Jesus Christ.
Again, this intense desire to question Joseph, is an effort to increase doubt in others, this is coming from an apostate, notice the anger in some of the comments, mixed with a insincere desire to best educate lds members, pfffft. The intent is very clear and easily seen through. The threads will not stop, Satan is persistent!

Some people are so vernerable to anything that would question the truthfulness of the gospel, they are upset that our leaders are not perfect, and they promote their negativity to others because, " Misery loves company."
Don't let this happen to you...

[eddie]

Read the Book Of Mormon, in it you will find the power to avoid deception, to resist temptation,there is power in the book, it bears testimony of Christ. Study the Book Of Mormon, that is the education one needs .
The Book Of Mormon exposes the enemy, it confounds false doctrines and lays down contention, it fortifies the humble followers of Christ against the evil designs, strategies, and doctrines of the devil in our day. The type of apostates in the Book Of Mormon are similar to the type we have today. " 2nd Nephi 3:12

READ THE BOOK OF MORMON!

[inho]

what's happening to a huge demographic of our LDS brothers and sisters.

Where are you getting your information? I don't see anything, except here at LDSFF.

In 2012, Church Historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen said:

Maybe since Kirtland, we’ve never had a period of - I’ll call it apostasy, like we’re having now

This was in response to the questions related about the fact that due to internet it is easier to find information about church history.
This statement was widely spread by the critics of the church. Later, Elder Jensen himself clarified his statement:

Jensen insists critics overstate the LDS exodus over the church’s history. “To say we are experiencing some Titanic-like wave of apostasy is inaccurate,” he said.

In 2015, Elder Quentin L. Cook was probably responding to this, when he said:

Some have asserted that more members are leaving the Church today and that there is more doubt and unbelief than in the past. This is simply not true. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never been stronger. The number of members removing their names from the records of the Church has always been very small and is significantly less in recent years than in the past.

The footnote to this says:

Over the last 25 years, the actual number of members leaving the Church has decreased and the Church has almost doubled in size. The percentage leaving is greatly reduced.

[mes5464]

I don't understand this thread. I just read the church's post on the origin of the Book of Abraham and I am at a loss as to what is the controversy?

[Arenera]

I don't understand this thread. I just read the church's post on the origin of the Book of Abraham and I am at a loss as to what is the controversy?

Enthusiastic enmity...

[justkeepswimming]

If you only come here or frequent LDS friendly sites you're only going to see the 'growth' narrative. It's not like that. Look for it and I promise, you'll see what's really happening.

what's happening to a huge demographic of our LDS brothers and sisters.

Where are you getting your information? I don't see anything, except here at LDSFF.

[brlenox]

I don't understand this thread. I just read the church's post on the origin of the Book of Abraham and I am at a loss as to what is the controversy?

Enthusiastic enmity...

Fabulous response +100...