A New Direction

[Arenera]

What are your thoughts on this direction?

How do you feel about conference talks being used and selected for discussion?

Do you: Keep your heart and mind open to new ideas, views, and solutions?


A New Direction for Priesthood and RS Meetings

Glimpse into a Council Meeting

It’s Sunday morning, and 45 sisters of the Bugambilias Ward in Guadalajara, Mexico, sit in council. After the opening hymn, Relief Society president Yara Ramirez invites some of them to share experiences from their lesson the week before.

After the sisters share their experiences for a few minutes, Sister Ramirez writes a single word on the board before taking her seat back in the circle.

“Unity,” it says.

Under Sister Ramirez’s direction, they turn to Mosiah 18:21 and read, “… having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one towards another.”

“What can we as a Relief Society do to put this scripture into practice?” she asks.

The sisters think for a few moments. “Well, the youth can’t go to the temple,” one sister shares. “There aren’t enough adult sisters to go with them.”

“I had no idea,” says another, looking surprised. “If you don’t know there’s a need,” she asks, “how can you help?”

“That is why we’re here,” answers Sister Ramirez. “There are needs like this that I learn about during ward council that we can all help with.”

“Why don’t we make a calendar?” someone suggests. The group now becomes more interested. “I think the youth have a scheduled time at the temple one Thursday a month.”

“I’m having trouble going to the temple myself,” admits a young mother in the group. “I haven’t been there in a long time, and I’ve been feeling a bit self-absorbed. I would love to go and serve,” she says.

Several others nod in agreement. They too find it difficult to attend as often as they want.

Another young mother suggests that they trade babysitting with each other and take turns going to the temple.

Then the sisters start asking each other where they live and who lives by which youth. They discuss how they could take turns helping the youth get to their activities.

“Well, we’ll need to get to know one another too,” someone says. “We should have activities!”

Sisters continue to comment, offering suggestions and asking questions.

At the end of the council, Sister Ramirez asks her secretary to summarize the minutes. “How did you all feel during the council?” she asks.

They respond that they felt more aware of everyone’s needs, that their service was needed, and that they were among friends.

“Based on what we’ve experienced today, what specific actions do we want to focus on this month as a Relief Society?” she asks.

As a group, they decide to have a potluck meal that Sunday after church, start playing volleyball on Thursday nights, make a calendar for attending the temple, and plan how to help youth get to activities.

“We’ve experienced unity today,” Sister Ramirez concludes, inviting each sister to think of ways she could serve during the week. “The Holy Ghost will continue to give us promptings as we act individually and as a Relief Society. I invite you to be ready to share your experiences next Sunday.”

Suggestions for Council Meetings

Be patient and allow the Lord to teach you what it means to counsel together.
There are principles we can keep in mind: Follow the Spirit, share your thoughts, and act on impressions.
Keep your heart and mind open to new ideas, views, and solutions.
Before each meeting ends, think about what the Spirit has taught you; then decide how you will act on His promptings.

[brianj]

I have seen a lot of changes in the church since joining, but this is by far the most exciting to me.

I know a lot of people take comfort in the idea that exactly the same lessons are being taught everywhere, and I have enjoyed having the same lesson two weeks in a row: once at home and once while traveling. The differences in how people in different areas see the same subjects can be fascinating.

But as all of us should know with perfect clarity, there is no one size fits all lesson. I have had home teaching assignments where I don't even spend 15 minutes with a family, but I have had others where a visit can last more than three hours. As a teacher, I have taught lessons that start on the assigned topic then go in a very different direction because it's what the people need.

This approach is exactly what we all need. But, unfortunately, it will come with great responsibility. We will have a duty to one another to get to know one another and our needs, and to welcome and get to know visitors or new people so we can minister to their needs with lessons and activities. I don't know if enough people will be willing to rise up to this obligation.

[diligently seeking]

What are your thoughts on this direction?

How do you feel about conference talks being used and selected for discussion?

Do you: Keep your heart and mind open to new ideas, views, and solutions?


A New Direction for Priesthood and RS Meetings

Glimpse into a Council Meeting

It’s Sunday morning, and 45 sisters of the Bugambilias Ward in Guadalajara, Mexico, sit in council. After the opening hymn, Relief Society president Yara Ramirez invites some of them to share experiences from their lesson the week before.

After the sisters share their experiences for a few minutes, Sister Ramirez writes a single word on the board before taking her seat back in the circle.

“Unity,” it says.

Under Sister Ramirez’s direction, they turn to Mosiah 18:21 and read, “… having their hearts knit together in unity and in love one towards another.”

“What can we as a Relief Society do to put this scripture into practice?” she asks.

The sisters think for a few moments. “Well, the youth can’t go to the temple,” one sister shares. “There aren’t enough adult sisters to go with them.”

“I had no idea,” says another, looking surprised. “If you don’t know there’s a need,” she asks, “how can you help?”

“That is why we’re here,” answers Sister Ramirez. “There are needs like this that I learn about during ward council that we can all help with.”

“Why don’t we make a calendar?” someone suggests. The group now becomes more interested. “I think the youth have a scheduled time at the temple one Thursday a month.”

“I’m having trouble going to the temple myself,” admits a young mother in the group. “I haven’t been there in a long time, and I’ve been feeling a bit self-absorbed. I would love to go and serve,” she says.

Several others nod in agreement. They too find it difficult to attend as often as they want.

Another young mother suggests that they trade babysitting with each other and take turns going to the temple.

Then the sisters start asking each other where they live and who lives by which youth. They discuss how they could take turns helping the youth get to their activities.

“Well, we’ll need to get to know one another too,” someone says. “We should have activities!”

Sisters continue to comment, offering suggestions and asking questions.

At the end of the council, Sister Ramirez asks her secretary to summarize the minutes. “How did you all feel during the council?” she asks.

They respond that they felt more aware of everyone’s needs, that their service was needed, and that they were among friends.

“Based on what we’ve experienced today, what specific actions do we want to focus on this month as a Relief Society?” she asks.

As a group, they decide to have a potluck meal that Sunday after church, start playing volleyball on Thursday nights, make a calendar for attending the temple, and plan how to help youth get to activities.

“We’ve experienced unity today,” Sister Ramirez concludes, inviting each sister to think of ways she could serve during the week. “The Holy Ghost will continue to give us promptings as we act individually and as a Relief Society. I invite you to be ready to share your experiences next Sunday.”

Suggestions for Council Meetings

Be patient and allow the Lord to teach you what it means to counsel together.
There are principles we can keep in mind: Follow the Spirit, share your thoughts, and act on impressions.
Keep your heart and mind open to new ideas, views, and solutions.
Before each meeting ends, think about what the Spirit has taught you; then decide how you will act on His promptings.

Taken from the link:

will I do without a manual?” thought Nancy Feragen, a Relief Society teacher, when she first reviewed a copy of Come, Follow Me—For Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society. “At first, I panicked,” she admitted. “Then the thought came to me: The Lord wants us to take more responsibility for our own learning and increase our spirituality as brothers and sisters in the gospel.”

“It is a little scary to trust in the Lord and come prepared to lead a discussion without lots of material,” said Linda Harmon, a Relief Society president, “but once you do it—if you have prepared yourself through prayer, study, going to the temple, and whatever else you are inspired to do—it is amazing.”

Teaching in the Savior’s Way

“One challenge with the new curriculum is getting people not to teach ‘the old way,’” said Bishop Boyd Roberts. “We’ve got to stop simply disseminating information, get out of the way, and let the Spirit teach.”

Pretty awesome. A little frustrating... to think that we steered away from the "old way" in the first place.

Wonderful this new change is.

[diligently seeking]

Taken from church link:

“It is a little scary to trust in the Lord and come prepared to lead a discussion without lots of material,”

I say this sincerely---- we are going to start hearing testimonies from the pulpit that reflect a deeper gratitude and love for our Savior "The keeper of the gate who employs no servant there." What a beautiful thing to really know that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life... Inspired leaders have their place. Too often church membership has desired leaders to hold their hands to "show them the way" "here is all the material" is it any wonder we hear a disproportionate amount of testimonies of gratitude and love 4 prophets versus Jesus over the pulpit in fast and testimony Sunday etc?

I pray this new day is dawning for us more fully:

Alma 17:
And now it came to pass that as Alma was journeying from the land of Gideon southward, away to the land of Manti, behold, to his astonishment, he met with the sons of Mosiah journeying towards the land of Zarahemla.
2 Now these sons of Mosiah were with Alma at the time the angel first appeared unto him; therefore Alma did rejoice exceedingly to see his brethren; and what added more to his joy, they were still his brethren in the Lord; yea, and they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God.
3 But this is not all; they had given themselves to much prayer, and fasting; therefore they had the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and when they taught, they taught with power and authority of God.
4 And they had been teaching the word of God for the space of fourteen years among the Lamanites, having had much success in bringing many to the knowledge of the truth; yea, by the power of their words many were brought before the altar of God, to call on his name and confess their sins before him.

[mcusick]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

[diligently seeking]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

I'm gathering you mean to say lack of content represents not enough interpretation? We are struggling from anything but lack of content... I make the argument about the difficulty of being held by the hand causes apathy all is well a lack of desire to gain an independent witness and knowledge and clarity from the spirit. Is not that all those young women need--- to simply desire to follow the example of Sons of mosiah? God is no respecter of persons. Too often we struggle and wander off into dangerous paths because of the easiness of the way.

[diligently seeking]

An understanding of Alma 5 is the oil for the anxiety etc of what some would consider troubled waters ahead . At the very beginning of chapter Alma speaks of converted people who were "illuminated By the Light of the Everlasting word" the chapter shows what this looks like. Oh the Unspeakable blessings held in reserve for those who hunger and thirst after righteousness... Many for the first time are going to choose be given permission to feast insuch a manner with this tried-and-true welcomed back approach.

[mcusick]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

I'm gathering you mean to say lack of content represents not enough interpretation? We are struggling from anything but lack of content... I make the argument about the difficulty of being held by the hand causes apathy all is well a lack of desire to gain an independent witness and knowledge and clarity from the spirit. Is not that all those young women need--- to simply desire to follow the example of Sons of mosiah? God is no respecter of persons. Too often we struggle and wander off into dangerous paths because of the easiness of the way.

Interpretation has nothing to do with what I am talking about. There is a lack of content to interpret, as it stands. For example, you get to the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi in Sunday school, and the teacher reads some General Authority quotes about how important Isaiah is, but the class never reads more than a couple verses scattered through several chapters (usually a obligatory misreading of "His hand is stretched out still"). That's what I mean by a lack of content. You have no ability to interpret or apply the scriptures without first seriously reading the text. It would be very doable for a Sunday school class to read the entire Book of Mormon in a year (every verse) if that's what they chose to do. But we don't take it seriously. I'd imagine that in a generation, we read the Book of Mormon about as much as the Community of Christ.

Those girls don't know the sons of Mosiah, because they aren't taught about them (some of them come out of homes where parents are inactive, so they will not learn from their parents). They should read and study their scriptures independently (I'd agree 100%), but if they don't, then there is no mechanism for them to gain that knowledge within Church.

[investigator]

It's no wonder the roles of the church are bleeding congregants. We no longer delve into the meat of the gospel. We continuously rehash the same old topics over and over. We seldom use the scriptures contextually. When the scriptures are used they are used as proof text to support what we want to advance, rather that to look at the scriptures in context. Studying the gospel by the use of conference talks moves us further from the deep meanings of the scriptures as we share stories and poems over and over. That is described by Isaiah as tables filled with vomit.

From Avraham Gileadi. http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

Isaiah 28:
7 These too have indulged in wine
and are giddy with strong drink:
priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine
and stagger because of strong drink;
they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions.
8 For all tables are filled with vomit;
no spot is without excrement.

As the political and ecclesiastical leaderships of Jehovah’s people always appear on a par (Isaiah 3:2-4; 9:14-16; 24:2), so Ephraim’s “fat proud ones” (vv 1, 4) include its “priests,” “prophets,” and “seers” (Isaiah 56:10-12). Intoxicated with the wine of self-deception (v 15), they “stray,” “err,” and “blunder” in their policies. Instead of obtaining revelation from Jehovah (vv 9, 14, 16, 26, 29), they water down his word until it is ineffectual in empowering his people (vv 10-13; Isaiah 32:6). The best their spiritual feasts offer is “vomit”—partly digested food regurgitated for Jehovah’s people to consume.

[Finrock]

I think this is a good thing. Actually, I believe this is something that the Church has always believed and what it has always desired of members. I served my mission during the era of the Missionary Guide with 6 Discussions. In the manual which introduced the discussions it said in effect that these discussions represent principles and they represent a pattern, but they are not to be used as rote devices or to be memorized and taught verbatim each time. Many missionaries would memorize the discussions and felt compelled to teach each discussion in order and if an investigator brought up a topic that wasn't covered by the current discussion, they would ignore it or put it aside until it was time for the discussion that addressed this. Many missionaries felt that the Missionary Guide needed to be followed exactly. This sort of thinking was in error. As it stated in the Missionary Guide, it was teaching a general pattern that should be adapted to the specific circumstances of investigators. You learn the principle/pattern and then you depend on the Spirit to guide you in specific circumstances. You had to be ready to be flexible enough to address real concerns of people you were teaching and to be authentic and sincere.

So, I have seen the Church slowly begin to ween members off of manuals and "memorized" discussions, because I believe that Church has always understood that teaching by the Spirit is superior to teaching by memorizing a lesson or a discussion, etc. I'm glad we are finally at a point as a Church where the Church can be more aggressive about directing the members to rely on the Spirit and not manuals.

Bottom line, I think this is good and I think its the direction the Church has been trying to go for a long, long time, and I'm glad we are finally here.

-Finrock

[Spaced_Out]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

It is not the church primary responsibility to educate but we must educate ourselves - read the scriptures pray and fasting. There is plenty of institute for youth and YSA to do the more in depth study. What is needed is uplifting people, getting them to overcome the daily adversary in their lives. Until the members do all the basics - that is all that will be taught. We are instructed to preach nothing but repentance and wait patiently for the Lords return.

[justkeepswimming]

I love this new direction but I fear that 40 or so years of correlated material and the mentality of 'never deviate from the manual,' is proving very difficult for the saints to overcome. Think about it, for decades we have been systematically trained to NOT think for ourselves, to read only what is in the manuals, and we've positively rewarded those who follow this methodology with an advancement in callings based on their perceived ability to be 'obedient.'

I'm not mocking correlation, just pointing out that the church is a little naive to think it can expect members to follow the spirit and create their own unique lessons after training an entire generation to not do exactly that.

I love the idea of freedom to orchestrate one's own lesson more liberally but sadly most saints have been painted into one corner when it comes to personal revelation: they are told to seek it but they are told it can't contradict the brethren, but the brethren, in all honestly, don't reveal much. So it becomes this exhausting mental game of second-guessing oneself, so much so that many saints just can't assemble one lesson w/o a manual.

I feel very optimistic about this approach because it weans the saints off the brethren in a fear based way, i.e., the fear of being wrong, or hearing the spirit wrong. Let's face it, learning to hear and respond to the spirit takes practice, but if you're paralyzed by brethren-fear you won't even try and practice much, and lessons are an ideal place to practice.

I think it will take just as long to make this work as it did for us to become trained in the ways of correlation, but it's definitely worth pursuing. Anything to make a church member more self confident is fine by me!

[mcusick]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

It is not the church primary responsibility to educate but we must educate ourselves - read the scriptures pray and fasting. There is plenty of institute for youth and YSA to do the more in depth study. What is needed is uplifting people, getting them to overcome the daily adversary in their lives. Until the members do all the basics - that is all that will be taught. We are instructed to preach nothing but repentance and wait patiently for the Lords return.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

I agree that the responsibility lies with the individual, however, in practice, most people don't read their scriptures or dedicate serious time to studying the gospel. The church conducts formal services for 3hrs/week, and can't seem to find the time to seriously educate its members on the scriptures.

I think adopting a practice similar to the Jewish recitation of the Torah would be beneficial. I am actually arguing to keep things pretty basic, unless we are in the process of fulfilling Isaiah 29:11. "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed." Are the scriptures sealed to the church?

[Spaced_Out]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

It is not the church primary responsibility to educate but we must educate ourselves - read the scriptures pray and fasting. There is plenty of institute for youth and YSA to do the more in depth study. What is needed is uplifting people, getting them to overcome the daily adversary in their lives. Until the members do all the basics - that is all that will be taught. We are instructed to preach nothing but repentance and wait patiently for the Lords return.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

I agree that the responsibility lies with the individual, however, in practice, most people don't read their scriptures or dedicate serious time to studying the gospel. The church conducts formal services for 3hrs/week, and can't seem to find the time to seriously educate its members on the scriptures.

I think adopting a practice similar to the Jewish recitation of the Torah would be beneficial. I am actually arguing to keep things pretty basic, unless we are in the process of fulfilling Isaiah 29:11. "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed." Are the scriptures sealed to the church?

Any 'man' who will do the work shall know of the doctrine. We gain spiritual understanding by doing righteous acts and serving others. Knowledge only comes as fast as we gain spiritual strength. These things cant be given they have to be earned. You cant give a person a testimony and understanding of tithing - only after many years and during serious temptations but not giving in to temptation does one gain the knowledge.
A deep abiding faith and knowledge etc cant be given.....
IF you stand up and read scripture most people will say I have heard that before and fall asleep, last general conference we were encourage to read the BoM again . and study it for ourselves and families....It cant be force fed...

[diligently seeking]

The church is more and more deciding to adopt a progressive education model (i.e., knowledge and meaning are socially constructed and negotiated). It didn't work in the public schools. It's not going to help the church. We should adopt E.D. Hirsch's model where people develop a cultural literacy; you need KNOWLEDGE to learn more and apply the knowledge.

My mom talks about the young women in the ward she works with; they don't understand doctrine or scriptures, so they are lost and don't know how to orient their lives. People need to be taught correct principles, then they will be able to govern themselves.

The problem with the old church curriculum is the lack of content, now the church is getting rid of even more.

I'm gathering you mean to say lack of content represents not enough interpretation? We are struggling from anything but lack of content... I make the argument about the difficulty of being held by the hand causes apathy all is well a lack of desire to gain an independent witness and knowledge and clarity from the spirit. Is not that all those young women need--- to simply desire to follow the example of Sons of mosiah? God is no respecter of persons. Too often we struggle and wander off into dangerous paths because of the easiness of the way.

Interpretation has nothing to do with what I am talking about. There is a lack of content to interpret, as it stands. For example, you get to the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi in Sunday school, and the teacher reads some General Authority quotes about how important Isaiah is, but the class never reads more than a couple verses scattered through several chapters (usually a obligatory misreading of "His hand is stretched out still"). That's what I mean by a lack of content. You have no ability to interpret or apply the scriptures without first seriously reading the text. It would be very doable for a Sunday school class to read the entire Book of Mormon in a year (every verse) if that's what they chose to do. But we don't take it seriously. I'd imagine that in a generation, we read the Book of Mormon about as much as the Community of Christ.

Those girls don't know the sons of Mosiah, because they aren't taught about them (some of them come out of homes where parents are inactive, so they will not learn from their parents). They should read and study their scriptures independently (I'd agree 100%), but if they don't, then there is no mechanism for them to gain that knowledge within Church.

No doubt an incredible amount of stimuli competing against the pursuit of "blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost" withvoir youth and all of us. I think that's why or partly the reason why Mormon lamented the way he did when he said to those of us in the church.


O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

When I listen to conference these prophetic expressions next to never receive attention. I hear a lot of positive affirmation that all is well that the Lord leads and guide---

To think if we all took absolutely serious the great popularity of these expressions lived in our lives with our thoughts words and actions.
D&C 109:
Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing, and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;
9 That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord, that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord, that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High


2nephi 9

But, behold, the righteous, the saints of the Holy One of Israel, they who have believed in the Holy One of Israel, they who have endured the crosses of the world, and despised the shame of it, they shall inherit the kingdom of God, which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, and their joy shall be full forever.


Jacob

And we also had many revelations, and the spirit of much prophecy; wherefore, we knew of Christ and his kingdom, which should come.
7 Wherefore we labored diligently among our people, that we might persuade them to come unto Christ, and partake of the goodness of God, that they might enter into his rest, lest by any means he should swear in his wrath they should not enter in, as in the provocation in the days of temptation while the children of Israel were in the wilderness.
8 Wherefore, we would to God that we could persuade all men not to rebel against God, to provoke him to anger, but that all men would believe in Christ, and view his death, and suffer his cross and bear the shame of the world; wherefore, I, Jacob, take it upon me to fulfil the commandment of my brother Nephi.

https://youtu.be/bbh43MGoigw

[Spaced_Out]

In the same breath.....

When I listen to conference these prophetic expressions next to never receive attention. I hear a lot of positive affirmation that all is well that the Lord leads and guide---

Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

[diligently seeking]

In the same breath.....

When I listen to conference these prophetic expressions next to never receive attention. I hear a lot of positive affirmation that all is well that the Lord leads and guide---

Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

I could tell you a falsehood / what you want to hear. That would be negative...

[Spaced_Out]

In the same breath.....

When I listen to conference these prophetic expressions next to never receive attention. I hear a lot of positive affirmation that all is well that the Lord leads and guide---

Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

I could tell you a falsehood / what you want to hear. That would be negative...

I get a lot of I need to repent and do better when I listen to GC so do most of the members - maybe we are listing to different conferences or are only listening to what we want to hear and looking for faults, and when we don't find them we make them up.

The church is not in apostasy as the members were in the time of Moroni the members are not going around raping and killing people, eating their flesh and drinking their blood as a sign of bravery. If you think the church has degenerated to that extent you are misguided.

[diligently seeking]

In the same breath.....

When I listen to conference these prophetic expressions next to never receive attention. I hear a lot of positive affirmation that all is well that the Lord leads and guide---

Negative thoughts produce negative words which produces negative actions. Purge the negativity. Dwell in Christ, and reflect his bidding: Moroni 7:45-48.

I could tell you a falsehood / what you want to hear. That would be negative...

I get a lot of I need to repent and do better when I listen to GC so do most of the members - maybe we are listing to different conferences or are only listening to what we want to hear and looking for faults, and when we don't find them we make them up.

The church is not in apostasy as the members were in the time of Moroni the members are not going around raping and killing people, eating their flesh and drinking their blood as a sign of bravery. If you think the church has degenerated to that extent you are misguided.

Where much is given much is expected...

Mormon was speaking to the COJCOLDS..

[Spaced_Out]

I could tell you a falsehood / what you want to hear. That would be negative...

I get a lot of I need to repent and do better when I listen to GC so do most of the members - maybe we are listing to different conferences or are only listening to what we want to hear and looking for faults, and when we don't find them we make them up.

The church is not in apostasy as the members were in the time of Moroni the members are not going around raping and killing people, eating their flesh and drinking their blood as a sign of bravery. If you think the church has degenerated to that extent you are misguided.

Where much is given much is expected...

Mormon was speaking to the COJCOLDS..

That is not my interpenetration of that scripture - I don't know of any teachers who preach for money and corrupt the word of God for temporal gain. You have a very apostate view of things.

[diligently seeking]

"Elder L. Tom Perry
General Conference Oct. 1992
Using Mormon Chapter 8 to teach us about pride and wealth.
These are some quotes from his talk.

We sense that the only thing Moroni is living for is to complete the record, as he writes, “Therefore I will write and hide up the records in the earth; and whither I go it mattereth not.” (Morm. 8:4.)

All he has is the faith that the Lord will preserve him long enough to complete the record and that someday it will be found by one chosen of the Lord. He realizes that the record will be a voice of warning to future generations of what occurs when nations like his own turn away from the teachings of the Lord. It is from the depths of his heart that Moroni cries out to those who will eventually receive the record. He wants to spare those who read his account the heartache and misery which comes from disobedience.

He writes first to the members of the Church and then to those who have not embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ. Moroni’s last words to the members of the Church are written as a voice of warning. He writes as one who sees the history of his people repeating itself in the future. From the Book of Mormon we read:

“Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.

“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.

“And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

“For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

“O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?” (Morm. 8:34–38.)

[diligently seeking]

Investigator said:

...We seldom use the scriptures contextually. When the scriptures are used they are used as proof text to support what we want to advance, rather that to look at the scriptures in context...

[diligently seeking]

I could tell you a falsehood / what you want to hear. That would be negative...

I get a lot of I need to repent and do better when I listen to GC so do most of the members - maybe we are listing to different conferences or are only listening to what we want to hear and looking for faults, and when we don't find them we make them up.

The church is not in apostasy as the members were in the time of Moroni the members are not going around raping and killing people, eating their flesh and drinking their blood as a sign of bravery. If you think the church has degenerated to that extent you are misguided.

Where much is given much is expected...

Mormon was speaking to the COJCOLDS..

That is not my interpenetration of that scripture - I don't know of any teachers who preach for money and corrupt the word of God for temporal gain. You have a very apostate view of things.

"Years before Elder Perry made these comments Elder H. Verlan Anderson also taught that these verses in the Book of Mormon referred to the LDS church. He said,

Moroni was similarly explicit in predicting false teachings among the saints. Reflect upon the unmistakable implications of this point-blank indictment of members of the “holy church of God:”

“O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God?” (Mormon 8:38)

Since there is only one “holy church of God” on earth, and since it is being polluted, the blame therefore appears to rest upon the teachers and hypocrites within that church. (The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil, pp. 170-171, underline added)
President Spencer W. Kimball also associated these verses with the Latter-day Saints.

Saints must keep the covenant of consecration. The Lord has blessed us as a people with a prosperity unequaled in times past. The resources that have been placed in our power are good, and necessary to our work here on the earth. But I am afraid that many of us have been surfeited with flocks and herds and acres and barns and wealth and have begun to worship them as false gods, and they have power over us. Do we have more of these good things than our faith can stand? Many people spend most of their time working in the service of a self image that includes sufficient money, stocks, bonds, investment portfolios, property, credit cards, furnishings, automobiles, and the like to guarantee carnal security throughout, it is hoped, a long and happy life. Forgotten is the fact that our assignment is to use these many resources in our families and quorums to build up the kingdom of God—to further the missionary effort and the genealogical and temple work; to raise our children up as fruitful servants unto the Lord; to bless others in every way, that they may also be fruitful. Instead, we expend these blessings on our own desires, and as Moroni said, “Ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not.” (Mormon 8:39.) (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.357)3

[Spaced_Out]

Investigator said:

...We seldom use the scriptures contextually. When the scriptures are used they are used as proof text to support what we want to advance, rather that to look at the scriptures in context...

Yes very true. The scripture talks about the status of the christian churches in the time the BoM will be brought to the world, it is not talking about the LDS church... It is the same things the JS was told in the first vision and when Moroni visited him all the churches were wrong...

Chapter headding
The Nephite record will come forth in a day of wickedness, degeneracy, and apostasy. About A.D. 400–421.

31 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day. But wo unto such, for they are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.
32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.
34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.
35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

Very different things the Lord says about the LDS church..
Doctrine and Covenants 1:30
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

[diligently seeking]

Investigator said:

...We seldom use the scriptures contextually. When the scriptures are used they are used as proof text to support what we want to advance, rather that to look at the scriptures in context...

Yes very true. The scripture talks about the status of the christian churches in the time the BoM will be brought to the world, it is not talking about the LDS church... It is the same things the JS was told in the first vision and when Moroni visited him all the churches were wrong...

Chapter headding
The Nephite record will come forth in a day of wickedness, degeneracy, and apostasy. About A.D. 400–421.

31 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day. But wo unto such, for they are in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity.
32 Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.
33 O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled.
34 Behold, the Lord hath shown unto me great and marvelous things concerning that which must shortly come, at that day when these things shall come forth among you.
35 Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.
36 And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.
37 For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.
38 O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

Very different things the Lord says about the LDS church..
Doctrine and Covenants 1:30
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

Reacquaint yourself with D&C 84 for more "context" which was written just two years after Section 1.